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View Full Version : [POLL] Best 6.5" Component Speakers less than $400



azngurlbaybee
02-17-2003, 02:57 AM
I'm making a list :)

Let me know what you guys think...Here's what I have seen as being the top 5 from bouncing around all sorts of forums:

1) Adire Koda
2) CDT HD 62
3t) JL Audio XR650-CSi
3t) Cadence Neo
5) Focal 165k2

Any thoughts about changes I should make? Stuff that should be added?

The reason I do this is because this is one of the more common questions I see being asked and it would be cool to have some general consensus...

MikeofTulsa
02-17-2003, 03:00 AM
kodas all the way man

azngurlbaybee
02-17-2003, 03:01 AM
p.s. If what you see isn't here, feel free to reply with what you think should be here

Some other things I was thinking of were:

OZ matrix
ID chameleon
Rainbow Pro Series
MB Quart Q series
ID Horns either the cd1e, or cd1pro

jjoven1225
02-17-2003, 01:06 PM
i've heard the jl audio components and im not very impress with them.. i like the infinity better than than the jl audio components... as for those that you like.. i would go with either the focal or the cdt.. you cant go wrong with both..

azngurlbaybee
02-17-2003, 01:14 PM
Wow...people on this board seem to really like the Infinity comps...I heard them locally and was unimpressed at how quickly they distorted

jjoven1225
02-17-2003, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by azngurlbaybee
Wow...people on this board seem to really like the Infinity comps...I heard them locally and was unimpressed at how quickly they distorted

wouldn't recomend putting over 70 RMS on those speakers.... but i've heard both infinity and jl and i like infinity better.. like i said before, cdt or focal. you cant go wrong with them.. what nationality are you?

azngurlbaybee
02-17-2003, 01:52 PM
Filipina...not totally "Azn" I know...

jjoven1225
02-17-2003, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by azngurlbaybee
Filipina...not totally "Azn" I know...

loka-loka.. azn din yun..anong coche mo? ilang taon ka na?

QuadPioneer
02-17-2003, 05:26 PM
Aren't the focal components and subs supposed to be just killer amazing sq?

azngurlbaybee
02-17-2003, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by QuadPioneer
Aren't the focal components and subs supposed to be just killer amazing sq?
That's what some say....they have them at a local shop and they were real nice but not *amazing*


loka-loka.. azn din yun..anong coche mo? ilang taon ka na?
Uh...sorry :(

B&R Innovations
02-17-2003, 07:27 PM
I gotta go the way of Rainbow or Coda or maybe Neo

avistar23
02-17-2003, 07:39 PM
im for Kodas..

Wonderbread
02-17-2003, 08:01 PM
now for the real question...

have any of you managed to hear these sets? especially the Koda's? lol.
the midline focal stuff is impressive, but not outstanding, however their utopia series are incredible...

SuckMikeHawk23
02-17-2003, 08:38 PM
im willing to bet the majority of this board recommends stuff they've never heard before, they just by word of mouth and spread what they hear...

MikeofTulsa
02-17-2003, 08:48 PM
ive not actually heard the kodas.....but i base my decision on them from very reliable sources (alaxan, josh, loyd, and a few others)

azngurlbaybee
02-17-2003, 08:51 PM
I pretty much go off of repuation...but I have heard:

JL, Focal, Diamond, and MB Quart

crhye250r
02-17-2003, 09:03 PM
I know i will get slammed for reccomending this....but..I really like the Alpine Type R comps. They sound good, and have a good ballsy midbass...I like them. :D

MikeofTulsa
02-17-2003, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by crhye250r
I know i will get slammed for reccomending this....but..I really like the Alpine Type R comps. They sound good, and have a good ballsy midbass...I like them. :D


i have heard the type r's and i agree....they are quite nice.....of the 4 comp sets i listened to(type r's, 2 boston accoustics (2way comps and 3 way) and fosgate fanatic x or p(not sure which one)) the fosgates had the best mid bass....but were a bit harsh on the tweet.....the type r's had the best overall response

SuckMikeHawk23
02-17-2003, 10:25 PM
i also like type r components, the only reason why i wouldnt buy them though is because of their relatively low rms rating

Natheo
02-17-2003, 10:40 PM
ive been asking opinions a lot but i think that the polk momos are waaayyy to neglected on this forum.

azngurlbaybee
02-17-2003, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by Natheo
ive been asking opinions a lot but i think that the polk momos are waaayyy to neglected on this forum.
Really? How do they compare with the other ones mentioned? They're not too bad pricewise at all

Have you heard them in person?

Natheo
02-17-2003, 10:57 PM
yeah i have heard them, they beat the hell out of any coaxials, and i like the crossover they come with. you can roll back the volume on the tweeter, and their is a midrange extension. overall i really like them, and they are definitly going in my car. the only person i know who has heard mb quartz and the momos said he is kinda torn..... ive never heard any components outside of polk.

MikeofTulsa
02-17-2003, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by Natheo
yeah i have heard them, they beat the hell out of any coaxials, and i like the crossover they come with. you can roll back the volume on the tweeter, and their is a midrange extension. overall i really like them, and they are definitly going in my car. the only person i know who has heard mb quartz and the momos said he is kinda torn..... ive never heard any components outside of polk.

well almost any componet speaker set is going to kill a coaxial.......but i agree the momo's are a pretty nice comp set

jlaine
02-17-2003, 11:27 PM
The best component set is the one that matches your listening tastes the best...

I'll put the koda midbass against any of the aforementioned component set midbasses, and hand them their posterior on a platter...

The tweeter is much more of a user preference thing...

Spddracer
02-17-2003, 11:39 PM
I like the CDts the best , I had the Kodas they are great but to me a little laid back in impact which I really like in a midbass , They are almost to smooth/mellow for me , It really is something you have to hear yourself and see if you like like Jlain said , Unless you want to buy 4-5 sets and try then for yourself like I did but htis gets very pricey ! I had the infinitys ,Kodas , Cdt Euros and went back to my Hds , Set up properly they are amazing and with the same power on them as the other sets they will get very very loud ands crystal clear , I have yet to have anyone listen to them that wasnt blown away with them and everyone that does says DAHM what are those !

audiolife
02-18-2003, 12:25 AM
viva and avi make some really solid mid basses. i got some ol viva rocketships layin around here somewheres. i had some avi 5.25's about 6 years ago and to tell you the truth prolly still the most impressive motor structure i have ever seen on a 5.25". personally if you feel adventurous why not put together your own set. there are plenty of help tables out there (crossover guides to making your own) and i will promise you this the things you learn by doing this will help you see alot what goes on

azngurlbaybee
02-18-2003, 12:27 AM
Wow...I'd always thought impact was one of the Koda's strengths...An alternate idea I was gonna take was to get the Koda driver with a LPG tweeter...but maybe I'll just the CDT's now :)

jlaine
02-18-2003, 01:07 AM
Originally posted by azngurlbaybee
Wow...I'd always thought impact was one of the Koda's strengths...An alternate idea I was gonna take was to get the Koda driver with a LPG tweeter...

Definitely is... That and they are flat down to 60hz in my car... Effortless.

audiolife
02-18-2003, 01:13 AM
its prolly due to they way the truck is or way its installed ...prolly hits a warm spot with the cdts

Sliced
02-18-2003, 01:50 AM
i had Infinity reference 605cs in my ride front door
the first two years, i liked it a lot.
They performed very well even after two years of 150rms abuse. They sounded way better than speakers in most of my friend's ride.

the only complaints i had was the tweeter being distorted very easily... even at 70wRMS.

Then i auditioned JL XR 650 Coaxial in a store, side by side an Infiniti 605cs and I like the XR a lot better in that environment. the mid bass is much stronger. The tweet was not as bright but adequate... well balanced i would say.

However, I also went test out a Focal 136V and 165k2 in a store, both at 75w rms. the 165k2 has that overly bright tweeter feeling, and overall both 136V and 165k2 has very very strong mid bass and noticeably cleaner sound than the JL XR. (FYI, the VR dont even come anywhere close). I couldnt tell the BIG difference between the V and the K2 and i suspect it wont' show very much in the car.

I now have the Focal 136V in the front doors. I can say they are way way better than how the infinitis were. Same amp, same deck. Very happy, worth every penny.

:)

audiolife
02-18-2003, 01:53 AM
focals sound better in most cars than they do in store but its still the way you set it up man lol i heard some of the best systems with sub par speakers in them and thats no lie

Mayshno
02-18-2003, 10:06 AM
focal Focal FOcal FOCal FOCAl FOCALLLLLLLLLLLLL:crazy:

azngurlbaybee
02-18-2003, 12:18 PM
Wow...Focal really came out of nowhere to steal a share of the lead :eek:

audiolife
02-18-2003, 12:43 PM
i would still put together my own set and buy enough parts to build 12 db crossover a 18 db cross over and a 24 db xover ..... like i said you do this i think you are more able to see what is going on

azngurlbaybee
02-18-2003, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by audiolife
i would still put together my own set and buy enough parts to build 12 db crossover a 18 db cross over and a 24 db xover ..... like i said you do this i think you are more able to see what is going on
I thought about this...Madisound is crazy because it's all these European brands I've never heard of...

I know Morel is good, but Vifa? LPG? Peerless? How can I decide between those? I'm just a girl :(

Wonderbread
02-18-2003, 02:50 PM
Vifa is great :D
Alma Gates is "just a girl" too .... ;)

azngurlbaybee
02-18-2003, 03:39 PM
Wow. 0 votes for the Cadence Neo's...has anyone actually heard these?

SuckMikeHawk23
02-18-2003, 04:00 PM
no, but i still love my crystals :D i'm loving them even more now that i got to listen to incubus' science CD on it... =

azngurlbaybee
02-20-2003, 11:50 PM
I heard the XR's today...weren't really impressive at all

BassRacer
02-21-2003, 12:38 AM
what about the alpine Type-X components rn't they decent and sound really good

azngurlbaybee
02-21-2003, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by BassRacer
what about the alpine Type-X components rn't they decent and sound really good
Yeah, they were pretty decent...not on par w/Boston Pro's though

brad.farmer
04-13-2003, 10:57 PM
April 13, 2003

What are some of the best speakers, under 450.00? I would have to say some of the speakers, in the MB Quart Q Series. They get loud, and are crispy clean. they can handle low bass, mids, and highs. For 450, you should get some good MB Quarts.

If you ever want to go with the BEST. Go with Morel Supremos. They are expensive, but loud, AND clean! what every car stereo geek wants!!!

:)
brad.farmer

Wonderbread
04-14-2003, 12:08 AM
HOLY CRAP!!!
STAY ON TEH FIRST PAGE!!!
JEEZUS!!!!
quit resurrecting threads from teh dead... its quite annoying...

Biohazard
04-14-2003, 01:09 AM
which of them has the best highes?

brad.farmer
04-15-2003, 07:40 PM
April 15, 2003

MB Quart, because they make great highs, quick bass, deep bass, and most of all, very very clean.
if I had a choice, though, I would stick with Morels, instead of MB Quart. Just because they're louder, and better. But they are unfortunatly, expensive. So, just be forewarned.


brad.farmer

Wonderbread
04-15-2003, 07:45 PM
how many sets have yo listened to brad? Quarts are harsh, tinny, and painful to many many ears... (including mine) I strongly dislike theit tweeters... anything taht causes pain is not a good thing..... ;)

audiolife
04-16-2003, 02:57 AM
quarts were a 90's thing lol

MA_Boomin'
04-16-2003, 02:05 PM
ha beat me to the point about MB Quarts. They are a very popular seller around here, but I think way too harsh for me. I have to say between Focal, CDT, and Crystal I had a very hard time choosing my front separates. About the only reason I went with Crystal is because the man. rep cut me a nice deal I couldn't pass on. The cadence ones are nice too, but I don't think the same class as the others. Eclipse also makes very solid components. Best thing is listen and let your ears decide.

azngurlbaybee
04-17-2003, 07:21 AM
Dang...I need to go to a meet or something where there are installs with all these different comps...I could go to all the stores in the Bay Area and still not hear all of them

MTXTANT
04-19-2003, 04:29 PM
The Focals are definitely the best of this list. I can't believe there are this many people voting for Adire. Adire makes decent subs and thats about it. I myself am a Quart man but I have my own personal taste. Yes, they can be a bit bright on the high end but thats nothing a good EQ can't tame. So MB Quarts were NOT an 90s thing. They're very much alive today. Just my opinion.

-peace

Wonderbread
04-19-2003, 04:39 PM
have you ever heard the Adire component set?
have you ever heard a Brahma?

MTXTANT
04-19-2003, 04:47 PM
Yes sir I've heard an Adire component. Yes I've heard a Brahma. Quite frankly the comps weren't worth half of what was being asked for them. The Brahmas on the other hand are very nice subs but I preferred something different. So I'm not speaking biased against Adire ok just in my own experience which is where my opinion is derived from.

-peace

Wonderbread
04-19-2003, 04:53 PM
which adire component set did you hear? what were they running off, and where did you ehar them?

MTXTANT
04-19-2003, 05:09 PM
I heard them @ one of the local shops here. They were hooked up to an Xtant 604 which is, by the way, what I have in my vehicle. They had no life in the upper mids and so I decided on the Q series comps. Xtant amps are very good amps which is why I know it wasn't the case of a bad amp, just bad speakers. Besides that not too many companies out there make a better x-over in their comps than MB Quart. The only knock anyone can come up with against Quarts is the tweeters. No one has anything bad to say about the mids and midbass which are stellar. I have a decent EQ on which I had to knock down the highs to tame those titanium tweeters. I wish Quart would make a silk dome tweeter to be honest. But they don't so I'll just have to deal with these for now.

-peace

SasquatchBump
04-19-2003, 06:53 PM
I like the JL's that i have. I listened to Eclipse, Infinity, Focal and quart and they came out on top IMO.

Eclipse's lacked depth, Infinity was WEAK all around, Focal Lacked imaging and Quart was Very harsh.

MTXTANT
04-19-2003, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by SasquatchBump
I like the JL's that i have. I listened to Eclipse, Infinity, Focal and quart and they came out on top IMO.

Quart was Very harsh.

See what I mean.........harsh highs is the only thing bad people can say against MB Quarts. Just thought I would point that out.

-peace

Wonderbread
04-19-2003, 07:48 PM
i have a small problem with you saying htat you heard them in a local shop...
where do you live?
what city, and at what store?

its not a question of the quality of the amp, more so how much power they were seeing...

MTXTANT
04-19-2003, 08:16 PM
I don't really care to disclose where I live nor am I required to. Nor am I required to justify myself to you. I told you what I've heard and where I've heard them. I like something different than you so accept it and move on. You gave your opinion and I gave mine which what these forums are for. I chose what I chose for a reason and you likewise. Lets not start a meaningless argument that can't be won by either side.

Enough said

-peace

Wonderbread
04-19-2003, 08:21 PM
actually, it can be won...
just tell me waht city, or hell, even the state...
i would just like to know which shop you heard these at...
if you ahve heard them at all... i happen to hav ea list of adire's retailers, and am willing to bet dollars to donuts that you ahvent heard them...a t least not properly...
i have yet to talk to one person that stated the mids were the weak point... they are by all accounts some of the finest mids out there...

MTXTANT
04-19-2003, 08:24 PM
Enough said means enough said.

I'm done beating a dead horse.

-peace

MTXTANT
04-19-2003, 08:27 PM
I would also bet dollars to doughnuts that Quarts mids are better.

-peace

MikeofTulsa
04-19-2003, 08:33 PM
serously its all based upon each of our own listening tastes...some people prefer the harshness of the mb quart tweets....i myself am not one.....and i do find it a bit hard to believe that u found adire koda 6.1's in a local shop....specially since there are not to many dealers in the country........and i dont really know where u get the idea that adire makes jus "decent subs and thats about it"........ohh well......

Wonderbread
04-19-2003, 09:31 PM
heh, his lack of a response indicates to me that he has not in fact heard them, he has no idea what he is talking about...
his second statement indicates to me that he definitely has not heard them...

take a look at this...
http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/KodaWooferDUMAX.pdf

http://www.adireaudio.com/mobile_audio/drivers/Koda6Response.gif

that's some kind of smooth... that's raw, unsmoothed data.....want to hear hte best aprt about that data? that's severly off axis, mimicking an in door infinite baffle response...

show me one piece of factual evidence that the quarts midbass has any kind of superiority over this one

Shrinkydinx - you cant find them cheap online... talk to JLaine, he's an authorized Adire dealer and will help you out on the shipping... best guy to talk to

MikeofTulsa
04-19-2003, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by shrinkydinx
...?


they are only sold at adires price.......349.00....talk to josh(jlaine) if your interested he doesnt usually charge shipping

MTXTANT
04-19-2003, 09:50 PM
My lack of response indicates I was reading other threads at the time. We just discussed this to death yet you insist on being right. Ok, you're right. I don't really give a rats ***. Goddy4me just posted that its all a matter of taste. My tastes are MY tastes, no one elses. By the way wonderbread, I don't care at all about your little graph that you went through all that trouble for. If I'm going by taste and taste alone then those numbers mean exactly nothing to me or anyone else. So lets please let this go guys.

-peace

Wonderbread
04-19-2003, 09:51 PM
the only thing I was getting at was this - you haven't heard them, you lied, and you still can't believe that someone managed to call your bluff... that's it...

MTXTANT
04-19-2003, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by Wonderbread
the only thing I was getting at was this - you haven't heard them, you lied, and you still can't believe that someone managed to call your bluff... that's it...

Look man.......if you insist on this I will tell you. The local shop I buy from here in Michigan is NOT an authorized Adire dealer but they order from Adire. So you didn't call my bluff I just figured it was none of your business. So please drop this once and for all.

-peace

Wonderbread
04-19-2003, 10:12 PM
interesting... because if they are selling Adire products without the companies authorization, they better watch out, because they will likely go after them for unauthorized distribution of their products...
Adire is incredible about their dealer screening and enforcing the exclusivity of their products

MTXTANT
04-19-2003, 10:47 PM
Whatever you say man, I personally don't care.

-peace

jlaine
04-19-2003, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by MTXTANT
Look man.......if you insist on this I will tell you. The local shop I buy from here in Michigan is NOT an authorized Adire dealer but they order from Adire. So you didn't call my bluff I just figured it was none of your business. So please drop this once and for all.

-peace

Adire IS the warehouse. They do not sell to any shop unauthorized - bar none.

Wonderbread
04-19-2003, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by jlaine
Adire IS the warehouse. They do not sell to any shop unauthorized - bar none.

tehre's the man who knows whats going on, lol

MTXTANT
04-19-2003, 11:36 PM
I never said they were dealing, they just order them like a regular customer would.

-peace

Wonderbread
04-19-2003, 11:45 PM
so you ehard htem in a local shop, (where you buy your stuff) who orders from Adire, but it wasnt i a vehicle?
so they just buy them at retail prices, and put them up in their sound board?
makes sense to me!

MTXTANT
04-20-2003, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by Wonderbread
so you ehard htem in a local shop, (where you buy your stuff) who orders from Adire, but it wasnt i a vehicle?
so they just buy them at retail prices, and put them up in their sound board?
makes sense to me!

Makes sense to me too.

-peace;)

Wonderbread
04-20-2003, 01:40 AM
the best compared to waht exactly?
its the only automotive component set that adire makes, so for them its the best...
they need that kind of power to truly perform...
but yes, safely, and they wille ven ask for more, l ol.

audiolife
04-20-2003, 03:33 AM
people who make judgements upon listening to speakers on a board and going by that have no idea about acoustics or much detail about installation. that "listening" board means about as much as the card board box the speakers come in after you are done installing them. when i competed i lost to 3 quart cars total during the year (more at finals but that was user error lol) everyone very lively which is cool for about 5 min but what would i know i only had 4 sets of quarts from 91-94 then i grew up and got horns:p

MTXTANT
04-20-2003, 01:09 PM
Horns are harder to tame than a titanium tweeter is. I've heard all kinds of horror stories about horn tweeters. I'm not saying they can't be good sounding, just that they are supposed to be tough to tweek. Which is exactly my point about Quarts. Yes I listened to Adire's 6.1 comps on a board but that is also where I listened to the Quarts. I couldn't install them in my car before I bought them. Therefore in the board was all I had to go on and I preferred the sound of Quarts over the Kodas. I don't mean anything against any certain brand or any certain person (esp wonderbread) I didn' t direct any hostility in his direction but he didn't seem to have a problem calling me a liar. I just want to give my opinion without someone crawling up my *** about it.

Why even have these forums here if you're going to have a select few people go out of there way to scold someone who gives an opinion they don't like. I have no problem with being wrong. That is how we learn by hearing from people that know more than we do. But we shouldn't ever come off with an attitude every time we hear something we don't like. There, I've said whats on my mind and would like to move on to other threads.

-peace
Tim

Wonderbread
04-20-2003, 02:33 PM
honrs are mounted under teh dash (above your knees)
i still find it hard to believe that you heard koda's in a board at a non-dealer... it just doesn't make sense to me....

for a dealer list for adire, click here - http://www.adireaudio.com/dealers/dealers.htm

audiolife
04-20-2003, 06:57 PM
horns are far easier than regular speakers to set up bar none. and instalation and set up is a far better tool to judge by

audiolife
04-20-2003, 07:12 PM
as far as detail goes they smoke any regular speaker i ever heard tonally i like them alot as well. some dont but they dont see whats going on imo. alot of sq world champs use horns

audiolife
04-20-2003, 07:18 PM
horns would keep up very easy with subs they are alot easier to drive than regular speakers very sensitive

jlaine
04-20-2003, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by MTXTANT
I never said they were dealing, they just order them like a regular customer would.

-peace

That is just unfathomly foolish - and doubles the cost in the process... I begin to question this shops intentions in the first place if they are so afraid to contact Adire to arrange to be a dealer.

Wonderbread
04-20-2003, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by jlaine
That is just unfathomly foolish - and doubles the cost in the process... I begin to question this shops intentions in the first place if they are so afraid to contact Adire to arrange to be a dealer.

oh no,.... apparently they aren't dealing them... just buying them as a customer, putting them up in their soundboard and telling people that they can't buy them there....

I think it makes perfect sense, don't you?

jlaine
04-20-2003, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by audiolife
as far as detail goes they smoke any regular speaker i ever heard tonally i like them alot as well. some dont but they dont see whats going on imo. alot of sq world champs use horns


Almost everyone I know last year in IASCA running horns got tromped... No - in fact -everyone I knew running horns got tromped.

As much as audiolife would like to try and portray it as simple, the blunt reality is setup is not as point blank as he'd like it to be, and a high soundstage is much harder to accomplish than with a much smaller dome tweeter that is more friendly to position.
He also failed to mention the lower range bandwidth is extremely limited, you still have to find a midwoofer that will blend into the system properly (which is where a good 80% of vehicles suffer is in the midbass region, NOT the upper region) - all of this makes them much harder to properly tune than a already designed component system.

shrinkydinx - I don't know of any on a board (shop), it may be eaiser to ask around the forums to try and find someone that is running a set.

DanWiggins
04-21-2003, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by jlaine
Adire IS the warehouse. They do not sell to any shop unauthorized - bar none.

Josh is correct. We're the US distributor for all our products; for other countries, the listed dealer would also serve as the distributor/representative. But in the US, it's direct with us only.

If you have a dealer who is interested in carrying our equipment, please have them contact Chris Brunhaver ( [email protected] ) about applying to be a dealer.

Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio

MTXTANT
04-21-2003, 08:55 PM
You guys really should get a life. I'm through.

-peace out

MTXTANT
04-21-2003, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by Wonderbread
oh no,.... apparently they aren't dealing them... just buying them as a customer, putting them up in their soundboard and telling people that they can't buy them there....

I think it makes perfect sense, don't you?

They aren't telling anyone they can't buy them there. I just found out today that those were actually a used set somone traded in for store credit. Which is perfectly legal by the way.

-peace

brad.farmer
04-22-2003, 09:45 PM
what series do you have? It might be something wrong with your stereo. Because the ones I have listened to, kick any competition out of the way, without any ands, ifs, or buts!!! Maybe you had the treble up to high. That would explain the harshness, of the high frequency detail, in your car.

brad.farmer

Randy Savage
04-22-2003, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by brad.farmer
what series do you have? It might be something wrong with your stereo. Because the ones I have listened to, kick any competition out of the way, without any ands, ifs, or buts!!! Maybe you had the treble up to high. That would explain the harshness, of the high frequency detail, in your car.

brad.farmer What in the hell are you talking about?

Say no to crack, Brad. :nono:

Wonderbread
04-22-2003, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by snova031
What in the hell are you talking about?

Say no to crack, Brad. :nono:

no no! say YES to crack brad... more fun for me! http://forums.caraudio.com/vb/images/smilies/peace.gif

Acid
04-25-2003, 09:42 AM
So let's start this from Scratch........LOL.......so which brand is the Best?

Wonderbread
04-25-2003, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by Acid
So let's start this from Scratch........LOL.......so which brand is the Best?

there is no best brand. there is no best component set... it is al user preference. The best way to find a set that you like is to listen to as many as you possibly can.. For example, som love the MB Quart sets, I personally despise them... some love the Infinity Perfect sets... i personally despise them... some people love hte Typr R component set, i think it would make a nice door stop....

Go out, listen, and find something that suits YOUR lsitening preferences.

Jeremy

Acid
04-26-2003, 02:03 PM
Mr Wonderbread, Have you heard of the boston rally component series? Any views?

ss3079
04-26-2003, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by Acid
Mr Wonderbread, Have you heard of the boston rally component series? Any views?

Very clean sound...tweeters are kind of softer, but something I could live with. Crossover network is practical, and the midbass is what you would expect - not floppy, rather, tight and clean.

And with a decent price tag, they are appealing to many.

But hey, people differ...opinions are opinions...Ive said it before, and I'll say it again:


Originally posted by ss3079
We cant tell you what components to get. You need to listen to as many sets as possible in order to decide what you like. Some people hate MB Quart's tweeters...others love them...some hate the midbass...others love them. It really is personal preference. Therefore, I suggest you go to Circuit City(etc, your friends rides) and listen to as many component sets in your price range as possible. Keeping in mind that the acoustics in the show room are far different than those in your car, of course.


:D

Good luck;)

- Steve

Wonderbread
04-26-2003, 04:28 PM
hee hee, Mr., lol.

The Rally's are a nice set, well priced, overal fairly balanced, but IMO, if you can afford the Pro's, they are the better set, by a fair margain.

Acid
04-27-2003, 02:58 AM
Thanks guys....
So in your own opinions better than the TYpe Rs SPR 176A? AndIf u could specify...In what ways better? Thanks

Wonderbread
04-27-2003, 03:00 AM
quite a bit better IMO....
the tweeter is smoother, and easier to listen to

ss3079
04-27-2003, 02:46 PM
I agree with the bread'....they are quite a bit better. More of a well rounded tweeter.

Try listening to both sets if possible...

- Steve

Acid
04-28-2003, 10:47 AM
Thanks...
I checked out the power ratings but they only gave a range of 20-275 watts....I even went online to check the PDF brochure but it was still the same ratings....What is the RMS like? any idea?

I am getting a Alpine amp and this are the ratings....for t he Alpine MRV-F340 4 channel amp.

.12V RMS Continuous Power 4ohm; Stereo (0.08% THD) 40Wx2 2ohm; Stereo (0.3% THD) 75x2 Bridged 4ohm; (0.3% THD) 150x1
14.4V RMS Continuous Power 4ohm; Stereo (0.08% THD) 60Wx2 2ohm; Stereo (0.3% THD) 100x2 Bridged 4ohm; (0.3% THD) 200x1


Is this a good fit? judging from the ratings?

Wonderbread
04-28-2003, 05:06 PM
it should do just fine

joshpoints
05-01-2003, 11:07 PM
Never heard kodas so I can't really say, but I have a set of planet audio components and they are quite impressive. They have a clean sound, and hey a 3 yr. warranty, not bad. You really get the full ability of these speakers when you play jazz music or instrumental music. THe instruments are so clean and clear. It sounds like I'm at a concert.

joshpoints
05-10-2003, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by Wonderbread
interesting... because if they are selling Adire products without the companies authorization, they better watch out, because they will likely go after them for unauthorized distribution of their products...
Adire is incredible about their dealer screening and enforcing the exclusivity of their products

I call your bluff. Companies don't care that much about unauthorized dealers. All the stores say is that they are an unauthorized dealer. If I was a company why would I care if someone is selling my products unauthorized? Either way I'm making money, plus I don't have to cover them by warranty anymore, which saves me even more money.


You got hosed Tommy you got hosed.

ss3079
05-10-2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by joshpoints



Companies don't care that much about unauthorized dealers.

Adire does.


If I was a company why would I care if someone is selling my products unauthorized?

Lots of reasons...think for a minute.

- Steve

jlaine
05-10-2003, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by joshpoints
I call your bluff. Companies don't care that much about unauthorized dealers. All the stores say is that they are an unauthorized dealer. If I was a company why would I care if someone is selling my products unauthorized? Either way I'm making money, plus I don't have to cover them by warranty anymore, which saves me even more money.


You got hosed Tommy you got hosed.


Wrong.

Adire is the first, last, and only warehouse. Adire doesn't sell to unauthorized dealers, unless the 'unauthorized' source is paying full MSRP like a regular customer.

Pretty tough to turn around and sell to the customers at MSRP then unless you like losing money on sales... unless you are trying to jack it up past MSRP - which just makes you a chicken for not contacting adire to arrange a interview for dealer status...

joshpoints
05-11-2003, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by jlaine
Wrong.

Adire is the first, last, and only warehouse. Adire doesn't sell to unauthorized dealers, unless the 'unauthorized' source is paying full MSRP like a regular customer.

Pretty tough to turn around and sell to the customers at MSRP then unless you like losing money on sales... unless you are trying to jack it up past MSRP - which just makes you a chicken for not contacting adire to arrange a interview for dealer status...


What you can do, and some people do do, is buy their old units (that are about to be replaced) from an authorized seller and then you can sell them for cheap. So Adire isn't really losing money off of these unauthorized sellers, because the units were originally bought at full price. You may say that Adire lost money because the other company that bought them at below MSRP should have paid full price. But the response to that is, the unauthorized dealer probably wouldn't have bought them from MSRP because they weren't willing to pay full price. So at least the sale of the Adire in an unauthorized way got their name out to the person that bought the Adire set and this person through word of mouth will tell others who may buy Adire. It's all in theory though. Both your side and my side are possible outcomes.


Still you got hosed Tommy, you got hosed. (I love this statement don't take it personal, it's just that wonderbreads screen character reminds of the mountain due commercial...)

wolfey
05-11-2003, 01:49 PM
They aren't telling anyone they can't buy them there. I just found out today that those were actually a used set somone traded in for store credit. Which is perfectly legal by the way.

that is just plain stupid.. You continue to make less and less sense. You are just digging yourself into a deeper hole with your completely stupid lies"I heard kodas and they are not as good as mbq's".."ok i lied". "they are an unauthorized dealer.." " I never said they were a dealer". then you go trying to explain how you didnt lie.. you are a very poor liar.. dont tell them you lied then try to explain how you didnt lie at least.. better yet, just quit being an idiotic liar and be honest with us all.

if you havent heard something and you know very little to nothing about it, dont comment on it.. you obviously havent heard kodas so dont say that mbq's are better. If you like MB quarts tell the guy that and explain what you like about them, no need to say they are better than something you dont know about.. would you be happy if we all agreed that you have the best system as the world, because its obvious you sure think so.. you ought to take it to some competitions and see how it does.. then you'll find out exactly what other people think.. and maybe it is good, i wouldnt be surprised if it was, but just cus its good doesnt mean its better than everything else.

jlaine
05-11-2003, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by joshpoints
What you can do, and some people do do, is buy their old units (that are about to be replaced) from an authorized seller and then you can sell them for cheap. So Adire isn't really losing money off of these unauthorized sellers, because the units were originally bought at full price. You may say that Adire lost money because the other company that bought them at below MSRP should have paid full price. But the response to that is, the unauthorized dealer probably wouldn't have bought them from MSRP because they weren't willing to pay full price. So at least the sale of the Adire in an unauthorized way got their name out to the person that bought the Adire set and this person through word of mouth will tell others who may buy Adire. It's all in theory though. Both your side and my side are possible outcomes.


Still you got hosed Tommy, you got hosed. (I love this statement don't take it personal, it's just that wonderbreads screen character reminds of the mountain due commercial...)
Look... In all seriousness...

There are very few 'clearing out' discounts given from adire, and when they are, they are offered to the general public as well as the dealers, but there are still no possible openings to undercut the dealer chain.

There are no unauthorized sales from adire, period. Every invoice, every order, every time, goes through them, no matter what. Every product going out is either sold to a authorized dealer at dealer cost, or to an end user at end user cost... There is no hidden supply chain.

If an authorized dealer is selling beneath their set limits which is on the dealer price sheet, they are in violation of their contract and thusly are in a position to be removed from dealership status, that is how Adire runs things. They keep a good reign on the supply line because that's how you know what your products are doing and how well they are doing - and it keeps growth controlled and steady, instead of a potential influx and swell of orders, and then a sudden backlash when demand is peaked.

Yours is theory, mine is the brunt reality of it. One is a thought, the other happens because it's controlled that way.

joshpoints
05-11-2003, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by jlaine
Look... In all seriousness...

There are very few 'clearing out' discounts given from adire, and when they are, they are offered to the general public as well as the dealers, but there are still no possible openings to undercut the dealer chain.

There are no unauthorized sales from adire, period. Every invoice, every order, every time, goes through them, no matter what. Every product going out is either sold to a authorized dealer at dealer cost, or to an end user at end user cost... There is no hidden supply chain.

If an authorized dealer is selling beneath their set limits which is on the dealer price sheet, they are in violation of their contract and thusly are in a position to be removed from dealership status, that is how Adire runs things. They keep a good reign on the supply line because that's how you know what your products are doing and how well they are doing - and it keeps growth controlled and steady, instead of a potential influx and swell of orders, and then a sudden backlash when demand is peaked.

Yours is theory, mine is the brunt reality of it. One is a thought, the other happens because it's controlled that way.


I'm not talking about the way Adire's warehouse works, I'm talking from a business stand point. I hear what you're saying. My point is, it's not Adire that is selling old models at a discount to unauthorized dealers, as it is dealers, selling to unauthorized dealers. I'm also talking about how this works in industry in general. It doesn't just happen to Adire it happens to all companies. Can you get me a copy of that contract sheet?



You got hosed Tommy, you got hosed.

paikiah
05-11-2003, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by joshpoints
I'm not talking about the way Adire's warehouse works, I'm talking from a business stand point. I hear what you're saying. My point is, it's not Adire that is selling old models at a discount to unauthorized dealers, as it is dealers, selling to unauthorized dealers. I'm also talking about how this works in industry in general. It doesn't just happen to Adire it happens to all companies. Can you get me a copy of that contract sheet?



You got hosed Tommy, you got hosed.


josh, I think you've been hosed constantly so far... how this industry works in general. Either you've been a dealer/distributor for quite some time, or you've only based your claims on rumours.

The business stand point of things, I still think you're wrong to accuse dealers, such as jlaine, to carry out fradulent sales. The profits of that outcome is simply not worth risking losing dealership status. Jlaine won't show his contract to you.

To see you ask about the contract alone is enough to tell me that you don't know much about business. Me? I've run my own business since a young age, made quite a bit of money. I think I know a thing or two about international business. I've worked with my uncles ever since I came back to Korea. He deals in PA distribution. He won't show his contract to you.

Now, I'm about to embark on another business, and there's no way I'd be showing my contract to you.

Happens to all companies? Hmmm, I don't think you know half the story. I'd say even Jlaine will admit not knowing all of how this sort of industry runs. No one knows it all. You're just giving this industry's manufacturer, distributor, and dealers a bad name.

get the pic? bottom line, admit defeat. Or just don't post about this point anymore.

you got hosed, josh. You got hosed. ;)

MTXTANT
05-11-2003, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by wolfey
that is just plain stupid.. You continue to make less and less sense. You are just digging yourself into a deeper hole with your completely stupid lies"I heard kodas and they are not as good as mbq's".."ok i lied". "they are an unauthorized dealer.." " I never said they were a dealer". then you go trying to explain how you didnt lie.. you are a very poor liar.. dont tell them you lied then try to explain how you didnt lie at least.. better yet, just quit being an idiotic liar and be honest with us all.

if you havent heard something and you know very little to nothing about it, dont comment on it.. you obviously havent heard kodas so dont say that mbq's are better. If you like MB quarts tell the guy that and explain what you like about them, no need to say they are better than something you dont know about.. would you be happy if we all agreed that you have the best system as the world, because its obvious you sure think so.. you ought to take it to some competitions and see how it does.. then you'll find out exactly what other people think.. and maybe it is good, i wouldnt be surprised if it was, but just cus its good doesnt mean its better than everything else.

Look man, I thought this whole thing was over but apparently its not over for you. I HAVE heard Kodas and I liked Quarts better. I didn't lie.....nor do I give a rats *** if you think that or not. I, by no means, think my system is better than anyone elses. I wouldn't have posted what I posted without knowing something about it. Because that would be uneducated information. So please let this die. I don't want to argue. Leave it alone and purchase a life but make sure its from an authorized dealer.

-peace

ss3079
05-11-2003, 09:43 PM
I dont see how Josh got "hosed"...Im sticking with his arguement right now, it only seems correct.

- Steve

paikiah
05-11-2003, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by ss3079
I dont see how Josh got "hosed"...Im sticking with his arguement right now, it only seems correct.

- Steve

erm, joshpoints, not josh jlaine.

ss3079
05-11-2003, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by paikiah
erm, joshpoints, not josh jlaine.

Oh...sam ting :D

- Steve

joshpoints
05-12-2003, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by jlaine
Look... In all seriousness...

There are very few 'clearing out' discounts given from adire, and when they are, they are offered to the general public as well as the dealers, but there are still no possible openings to undercut the dealer chain.

There are no unauthorized sales from adire, period. Every invoice, every order, every time, goes through them, no matter what. Every product going out is either sold to a authorized dealer at dealer cost, or to an end user at end user cost... There is no hidden supply chain.

If an authorized dealer is selling beneath their set limits which is on the dealer price sheet, they are in violation of their contract and thusly are in a position to be removed from dealership status, that is how Adire runs things. They keep a good reign on the supply line because that's how you know what your products are doing and how well they are doing - and it keeps growth controlled and steady, instead of a potential influx and swell of orders, and then a sudden backlash when demand is peaked.

Yours is theory, mine is the brunt reality of it. One is a thought, the other happens because it's controlled that way.

Actually mine is reality too. We don't live in a perfect world. Look at illegal downloads of music. How do the downloads become available before a cd is released. Easy, someone rleases the music onto sites like Kazza early. Companies can try as hard as they want to eliminate the illegal activity, but it will still come through.


Ahh, almost forgot my line.

You got hosed Tommy, you got hosed.

wolfey
05-13-2003, 12:00 AM
personally i think Josh has some realistic advice, at the same time however i do know that many manufacturers highly discourage unauthorized sales of products. I have to assume however that many let this type of thing occur and do not want to spend the money to try and change the fact that people are selling without authorization.. I know a reseller who in the past had sold lots car audio stuff on the internet without being internet authorized.. Rockford fosgate recently caught him and is in the process of sueing him and they has revoked his line of credit. Other companies such as planet audio have caught him also and he had to beg for them to not reject his line.. Since then he doesnt sell anything unauthorized anymore and he's told me a lot about how the industry works.. I think the fact remains though that these big companies have trouble keeping tabs on all of there dealers/distributors.. And having people sell on ebay and what not doesnt totally hurt them, the name and the products get out to many people who otherwise wouldnt be able to get the product do to location or price range.. Its seems like a pretty complex industry with the internet and price wars, its not the same as it was 5 years ago where you had to go to circuit city or an audio store. Read this :
http://www.lightav.com/subpages/rules.html

it is a vit outdated as he wrote it like 2 years ago i think, but its got some interesting things.. many of which you may already know though.

azngurlbaybee
05-13-2003, 03:45 AM
Originally posted by joshpoints
Actually mine is reality too. We don't live in a perfect world. Look at illegal downloads of music. How do the downloads become available before a cd is released. Easy, someone rleases the music onto sites like Kazza early. Companies can try as hard as they want to eliminate the illegal activity, but it will still come through.
Wow, that's totally unrelated. You really are fishing for ways to dig yourself out of your hole now, aren't you? :)

paikiah
05-13-2003, 03:51 AM
Originally posted by azngurlbaybee
Wow, that's totally unrelated. You really are fishing for ways to dig yourself out of your hole now, aren't you? :)


hey, getting closer to the magical 200 posts soon..;)

congrats, congrats

btw, you're up really late

azngurlbaybee
05-13-2003, 04:11 AM
It's barely midnite here :crazy:

paikiah
05-13-2003, 04:23 AM
Originally posted by azngurlbaybee
It's barely midnite here :crazy:

it's 4:22p.m. over here...

think it's over 3a.m. in the east coast...

anyway, today's forum's like a ghost town...
3 members, 0 guests.. never seen such low numbers...

neonak
05-13-2003, 09:11 AM
octane-r 6.5 compo, 175 $ in local store.. unmatched (personally would rate them equally to boston rally)

ss3079
05-13-2003, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by paikiah
it's 4:22p.m. over here...

think it's over 3a.m. in the east coast...

anyway, today's forum's like a ghost town...
3 members, 0 guests.. never seen such low numbers...

Well, it is 3am EST lol...midnight here.

Really, who's on that late?:D

- Steve

joshpoints
05-13-2003, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by azngurlbaybee
Wow, that's totally unrelated. You really are fishing for ways to dig yourself out of your hole now, aren't you? :)


Actually your statement makes no sense. First off I'm not in a hole. The world isn't perfect and as much as some want unauthorized sales to go away they will always occur. Second you can't dig your way out of a hole. And no I'm not trying to get myself out of a hole; my stance remains the same. unauthorized sales occur.

My point is criminal activity will always occur and that's the truth. The downloading music example was supposed to show this point. THe music companies are even trying to encript their cd's in such a way that they can't be burnt, but there is always the guy on the other side finding a way around it. Referring back to the unauthorized dealers, they are not willing to setup a contract with the distributor and instead buy models from others that are soon to be replaced with new models. So my statement regarding the music was related. No matter how much you try to stop the crook he will find a way to succeed, this doesn't mean that you should stop trying to catch the crook, as this is up to the particular group that is being violated. My only point is not whether it is right or wrong, but rather that it does occur.


You got hosed Tommy you got hosed.

joshpoints
05-13-2003, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by azngurlbaybee
It's barely midnite here :crazy:

Oh, by the way how is it out at No-kali, I heard that island is pretty nice. It's out by Maui right? Waters nice and warm, soft sandy beaches, great water for snorkeling.

azngurlbaybee
05-13-2003, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by joshpoints
Actually your statement makes no sense. First off I'm not in a hole. The world isn't perfect and as much as some want unauthorized sales to go away they will always occur. Second you can't dig your way out of a hole. And no I'm not trying to get myself out of a hole; my stance remains the same. unauthorized sales occur.

My point is criminal activity will always occur and that's the truth. The downloading music example was supposed to show this point. THe music companies are even trying to encript their cd's in such a way that they can't be burnt, but there is always the guy on the other side finding a way around it. Referring back to the unauthorized dealers, they are not willing to setup a contract with the distributor and instead buy models from others that are soon to be replaced with new models. So my statement regarding the music was related. No matter how much you try to stop the crook he will find a way to succeed, this doesn't mean that you should stop trying to catch the crook, as this is up to the particular group that is being violated. My only point is not whether it is right or wrong, but rather that it does occur.


You got hosed Tommy you got hosed.
And my point was that you were using a less preventable violation to prove that a more preventable violation occurs...

Here's your logic:

X is a violation
Y is a violation
X happens a lot
therefore Y happens a lot

The problem with your logic is that X (stealing music) is almost impossible to control because nobody cares about warranties and dealer contracts when it comes to music...People *do* care about warranties with speakers and dealers *are* afraid of losing contracts with Adire

joshpoints
05-14-2003, 01:55 AM
Originally posted by azngurlbaybee
And my point was that you were using a less preventable violation to prove that a more preventable violation occurs...

Here's your logic:

X is a violation
Y is a violation
X happens a lot
therefore Y happens a lot

The problem with your logic is that X (stealing music) is almost impossible to control because nobody cares about warranties and dealer contracts when it comes to music...People *do* care about warranties with speakers and dealers *are* afraid of losing contracts with Adire


There are agreements made in the music industry that is supposed to prevent the early release of an artists music. The artist does care if music is released early by bootlegging and it still happens.

If you are getting an item for less than its MSRP, then some are willing to buy a unit without the warranty, especially if it's a top quality brand. Maybe I'm one of the few that thinks crooked enough (this is part of the problem with people in my state), there are ways around a warranty also. I won't mention them. I'll let you figure it out.

One last thing, when there is a will there is a way. That's what it comes down to. There would be no unauthorized dealer if there was no will for them.
You got hosed Tommy, you got hosed.

wolfey
05-14-2003, 10:06 PM
Hey josh why dont you try and get a contract with eclipse and sell there units online??
where there is a will there is a way, but i havent seen a will to go there.

joshpoints
05-15-2003, 01:00 AM
Originally posted by wolfey
Hey josh why dont you try and get a contract with eclipse and sell there units online??
where there is a will there is a way, but i havent seen a will to go there.


Actually someone has beat me to doing this, but it might be worth a try to see if the demand is high enough to sell some more eclipse online.

wolfey
05-15-2003, 01:26 AM
who? where? how? i havent seen any before and i've looked all over.. i'm talking about new unopened unaltered units too..

joshpoints
05-15-2003, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by wolfey
who? where? how? i havent seen any before and i've looked all over.. i'm talking about new unopened unaltered units too..


No, sorry, can't tell yet. First I want all the clowns that feel the world is a perfect place and feel that I'm lying to go ahead and criticize me. Someone say I live in a La La land and that I'm trying to dig myself out of a hole, which seems to be an act that you would try in La La land. I personally feel that I may be one of the few that didn't live in a totally sheltered La La land. I'm not directing this statement at you Wolfey afterall you did ask who where how, rather than you are a liar. I appreciate that. I'll give you a little information for being kind. The place doesn't sell their decks, but it does have their amps, and speakers.


Maybe I'll move to the island of No-Kali. I do like to snorkel. But I bet it is expensive to import goods to this island. Maybe I'll go to Maui and then take a short plane ride to No-Kali. Any cool sites in No-Kali?

paikiah
05-15-2003, 08:43 PM
I'm sure it does happen time to time to certain companies... but not everyone in the industry, and certainly not at a scale with which I think you're trying to imply. Yeah, maybe you could get a one-off equipment like that, but not very often, I hope.

wolfey
05-16-2003, 12:30 AM
josh- true, i wasnt trying to direct anything at you just was wondering how you say it could be done when i had never seen it done with eclipse and actually some other high end companies... well actually i have seen some eclipse subs and stuff on a website but never there decks.. however i was just checking ebay and there are like 2 new eclipse decks being sold on there.. i'm not sure if they are being sold by a seller who is buying from a dealer though.. the price is pretty high, like as much as in stores i believe, so i'm not sure what the point is.

outbacksport
05-16-2003, 12:41 AM
How about diamond audio hex 600s.....they really sound good.....get the silk dome.

joshpoints
05-16-2003, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by wolfey
josh- true, i wasnt trying to direct anything at you just was wondering how you say it could be done when i had never seen it done with eclipse and actually some other high end companies... well actually i have seen some eclipse subs and stuff on a website but never there decks.. however i was just checking ebay and there are like 2 new eclipse decks being sold on there.. i'm not sure if they are being sold by a seller who is buying from a dealer though.. the price is pretty high, like as much as in stores i believe, so i'm not sure what the point is.

Some people may not have a local seller around their house, so they turn to the internet to get it.

Randy Savage
05-16-2003, 11:04 PM
Eclipse has 0 online authorized dealers. Period.

ss3079
05-17-2003, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by snova031
Eclipse has 0 online authorized dealers. Period.

And somehow I cannot blame them. Image Dynamics only has one.

- Steve:)

joshpoints
05-17-2003, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by snova031
Eclipse has 0 online authorized dealers. Period.

That doesn't mean that their stuff isn't sold online.

ss3079
05-17-2003, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by joshpoints
That doesn't mean that their stuff isn't sold online.

I sure as hell wouldnt buy it online, considering there are no authorized dealers.

- Steve

azngurlbaybee
05-18-2003, 04:20 AM
Originally posted by joshpoints
That doesn't mean that their stuff isn't sold online.
I'm sure they mind when it happens though

bass_mekanik
05-18-2003, 06:40 AM
most ppl prolly won't know these splits but Alpine SPR-175A's i reckon that these are one solit speaker and can go deep as in my install deeper than most speakers that i have heard

paikiah
05-18-2003, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by azngurlbaybee
I'm sure they mind when it happens though

places like ikesound and etronics, I dont' think they are authorized dealers for all their products. That's why they don't come with a factory warranty. I don't know how much that counts in the US, but with no after sales servicing, it'd be very hard to get consumers to make purchase.

It actually happens so often in Korea that even Sony Korea will refuse to service anything that is bought outside the country. The worst that I have dealt with is rockford. The distributor refuses to even lay hands on it if it is not from their company, even though I bought it at full retail prices from an authorised dealer in another country. Sux...

Lucky for me, I know quite a few amazing repair shops and manufacturers who help me out when I need to for free, Not everyone gets that kind of opportunity and I think it is very unfair to get turned down by another dealer in another part of the world.

If it wasn't for unauthorised sales, this problem would not even exist.

joshpoints
05-18-2003, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by azngurlbaybee
I'm sure they mind when it happens though


THis goes back to my prior statements.

Advatages for manufacturer when some unauthorized sales occur.
1. No warranty support
2. Will spread their old products that are cheap that people can afford which will increase popularity and people that can afford their new products will probably purchase from an authorized dealer.



Disadvantages
1. Some feel that it will cause a loss in profit from companies purchasing unauthorized products that are old.

paikiah
05-18-2003, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by joshpoints
THis goes back to my prior statements.

Advatages for manufacturer when some unauthorized sales occur.
1. No warranty support
2. Will spread their old products that are cheap that people can afford which will increase popularity and people that can afford their new products will probably purchase from an authorized dealer.



Disadvantages
1. Some feel that it will cause a loss in profit from companies purchasing unauthorized products that are old.


I think you got number 2 wrong. Corporations practice what is commonly found in other electronic industries, and that is to kill their own "offspring". THey will NOT be happy that someone got an older cheaper version of their product. If this were true, Intel would still be in the P3 level.

If a person buys an older cheaper version, the company has lost a potential customer's ability to purchase a newer version.

A DEALER might be happy to move his stock so that their yearly quota will be filled, but even then, dealers must retail their products at the minimum price given by the mftr/distributor.

joshpoints
05-18-2003, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by paikiah
I think you got number 2 wrong. Corporations practice what is commonly found in other electronic industries, and that is to kill their own "offspring". THey will NOT be happy that someone got an older cheaper version of their product. If this were true, Intel would still be in the P3 level.

If a person buys an older cheaper version, the company has lost a potential customer's ability to purchase a newer version.

A DEALER might be happy to move his stock so that their yearly quota will be filled, but even then, dealers must retail their products at the minimum price given by the mftr/distributor.


My previous posts explained #2 further. A store must sell its old models before releasing new model, because if they don't they will be stuck with the old models. Stores can do this by selling the units to people at a discounted rate. Then these unauthorized people sell the old units. This situation allows people that don't have the money, to purchase their models, that would otherwise not have even tried out their products because of the price. This person is allowing the authorized dealer to get rid of their old products which allows the dealer to purchase the new products, with minimal loss allowing them to stay in business longer which increases the sales that the manufacturer has, because the authorized dealer is now able to stay in business. The P3 still exists. You can still buy it. People buy the p4 for the improved performance.

paikiah
05-18-2003, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by joshpoints
My previous posts explained #2 further. A store must sell its old models before releasing new model, because if they don't they will be stuck with the old models. Stores can do this by selling the units to people at a discounted rate. Then these unauthorized people sell the old units. This situation allows people that don't have the money, to purchase their models, that would otherwise not have even tried out their products because of the price. This person is allowing the authorized dealer to get rid of their old products which allows the dealer to purchase the new products, with minimal loss allowing them to stay in business longer which increases the sales that the manufacturer has, because the authorized dealer is now able to stay in business. The P3 still exists. You can still buy it. People buy the p4 for the improved performance.

Oh yes, the P3 still exists, but at what cost? The 8088 processors still exist. Do they still manufacture it? Nope. P3's would cost a bomb, if you care to go and check it out. Why don't they sell it to unknowing customers? Cause it will reduce the chances of them purchasing a newer model. Yes, people rather buy a P4 due to higher performance. But there is no problem running a lot of non-game related applications on a P3, even a P2.

Companies do not stay stagnant, they move ahead with new and improved products. Dumping old units and moving new ones are more cost effective than to try and sell the old ones, hoping the competition will slow down their R&D and mftring.

What you have described is from a normal person's view, and also describing small industries. Sony, Alpine, JVC, matsushita electronic, all of them are conglomerates, and they do not slow their production nor R&D. No dealer would want to lose their licence (it's not easy to acquire one) for a few measly bucks in profit. Unless the company gives authorisation, they are not even allowed to sell below set prices.

joshpoints
05-19-2003, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by paikiah
Oh yes, the P3 still exists, but at what cost? The 8088 processors still exist. Do they still manufacture it? Nope. P3's would cost a bomb, if you care to go and check it out. Why don't they sell it to unknowing customers? Cause it will reduce the chances of them purchasing a newer model. Yes, people rather buy a P4 due to higher performance. But there is no problem running a lot of non-game related applications on a P3, even a P2.

Companies do not stay stagnant, they move ahead with new and improved products. Dumping old units and moving new ones are more cost effective than to try and sell the old ones, hoping the competition will slow down their R&D and mftring.

What you have described is from a normal person's view, and also describing small industries. Sony, Alpine, JVC, matsushita electronic, all of them are conglomerates, and they do not slow their production nor R&D. No dealer would want to lose their licence (it's not easy to acquire one) for a few measly bucks in profit. Unless the company gives authorisation, they are not even allowed to sell below set prices.


The last time I checked P3's were pretty cheap. The manufacturers do not wait for old units to sell before releasing new ones this is true. My point was that companies try to get rid of their old units as fast as possible so that they can minimize their loss. I'm speakers of the authorized dealers, not the manufacturer. This is where the unauthorized people buy from.

paikiah
05-19-2003, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by joshpoints
The last time I checked P3's were pretty cheap. The manufacturers do not wait for old units to sell before releasing new ones this is true. My point was that companies try to get rid of their old units as fast as possible so that they can minimize their loss. I'm speakers of the authorized dealers, not the manufacturer. This is where the unauthorized people buy from.


And when was the last time you checked? I just checked Intel's authorised retailer, and it was about triple the prices of the P4. Not just cause it's rare, but Intel Corp. has assigned that price limit on the P3's. Again, killing their own offspring to pave the way for the stronger, better one to survive. I think you've checked your prices with an unauthorised dealer.

Dumping might be a loss (when they dump stock, some companies crush it physically) but it is no comparison to losing out on sales of new units. If it was a small mftr, it might not be ture, but when you're dealing several billions, dumping is the right way to go. They will discourage buyers from purchasing their remaining older units.

joshpoints
05-19-2003, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by paikiah
And when was the last time you checked? I just checked Intel's authorised retailer, and it was about triple the prices of the P4. Not just cause it's rare, but Intel Corp. has assigned that price limit on the P3's. Again, killing their own offspring to pave the way for the stronger, better one to survive. I think you've checked your prices with an unauthorised dealer.

Dumping might be a loss (when they dump stock, some companies crush it physically) but it is no comparison to losing out on sales of new units. If it was a small mftr, it might not be ture, but when you're dealing several billions, dumping is the right way to go. They will discourage buyers from purchasing their remaining older units.


You can get an 800 mhz P3 for $68.00.

jlaine
05-19-2003, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by joshpoints
Actually mine is reality too. We don't live in a perfect world. Look at illegal downloads of music. How do the downloads become available before a cd is released. Easy, someone rleases the music onto sites like Kazza early. Companies can try as hard as they want to eliminate the illegal activity, but it will still come through.


Ahh, almost forgot my line.

You got hosed Tommy, you got hosed.

Last time I'm taking this discussion with you as it's clearly not sinking in,

Your idea is wasted effort. You have no logical thought process in the supply chain that Adire has.

Adire is the central and only warehouse. There are no other warehouses to cheat by. There are no dealers that stock massive amounts to cheat with, if they get caught they get taken care of. It would take me all of 2 minutes to get the president of Adire back in here to repeat everything I'm saying, again, but there is no point to it. You can feel free to believe what you'd like, but the only way to start a unauthorized network is to have a crooked adire dealer, that's it.

On the matter of eclipse- the only thing they reign in on tight is online deck selling.

TRY to find a eclipse deck online, go for it.

joshpoints
05-20-2003, 02:06 AM
Originally posted by jlaine
Last time I'm taking this discussion with you as it's clearly not sinking in,

Your idea is wasted effort. You have no logical thought process in the supply chain that Adire has.

Adire is the central and only warehouse. There are no other warehouses to cheat by. There are no dealers that stock massive amounts to cheat with, if they get caught they get taken care of. It would take me all of 2 minutes to get the president of Adire back in here to repeat everything I'm saying, again, but there is no point to it. You can feel free to believe what you'd like, but the only way to start a unauthorized network is to have a crooked adire dealer, that's it.

On the matter of eclipse- the only thing they reign in on tight is online deck selling.

TRY to find a eclipse deck online, go for it.

I totally agree. But If you're eclipse if you are going to be tight on decks you might as well be tight on the rest of your equipment.

Acid
05-20-2003, 04:37 AM
So what's the price of the focals and Koda's over in the US dollars? Any ideas.....As I will be working in asia for the next 2 years!!! and I would really like to get my hands on one of them!!! I have a few following questions!!!

(1) what amplifier would u pair them up with?
(2) I have a alpine F340, issit good enough?
(3) any recommendations for coaxial speakers? to go with the whole package?

Thanks.....:D
Feel free to give me your views

paikiah
05-20-2003, 04:51 AM
Originally posted by Acid
So what's the price of the focals and Koda's over in the US dollars? Any ideas.....As I will be working in asia for the next 2 years!!! and I would really like to get my hands on one of them!!! I have a few following questions!!!

(1) what amplifier would u pair them up with?
(2) I have a alpine F340, issit good enough?
(3) any recommendations for coaxial speakers? to go with the whole package?

Thanks.....:D
Feel free to give me your views

which part of Asia?

FOr prices on Koda's, pm jlaine, he's an authorised dealer, if you hadn't noticed from ALL the posts up there. You could also get a power rating recommendation from Jlaine.

WHy would you want coaxials when you're buying components?

Acid
05-20-2003, 10:06 AM
Components for the back too??? I was thinking of setting up the Kodas at the front doors.
Don't really care abt the passengers....LOL...

I would be going to Singapore.

paikiah
05-20-2003, 10:23 AM
SQ cars only have speakers in front, not at the back. Singapore... what kind of car do you think youre' going to get? Are you going with family or by yourself? You do realise SIngapore'e prices of cars is one of the highest IN THE WORLD? It would be very hard for you to get approval by the govt for a car, never mind a second car.

I've lived in Malaysia (the country jsut above, and frequently entered Sing by car) so I know a BIT about Singapore and the surrounding areas. Man, you better start accepting rice fads, cause that's all you're gonna get.

IF you wanna know more, pm me or something..:)

Acid
05-20-2003, 11:09 AM
Man.....Spare me your ignorance abt Singapore. I've been there 3 times and There's more than just Rice fads! A stone's throw from my office are some neat steak houses and restuarants.I will be given a company car(Honda civic Vti) for 2 years and that's why I am willing to invest in the car audio. and you tell me that u have stayed in the region....

What I really don't need is your knowledge abt countries.....But seriously...I think u missed out all the questions that I have posted. In fact after reading your reply.It seems that I have more questions for you.

What is " SQ cars only have speakers in front, not at the back"?

I have driven a Honda intergra back in singapore and I remember there were speakers on the front doors and a pair at the back.

Would anyone reading care to comment on setting up 2 pairs of components speakers within one car? issit better? wouldn't it sound kinda messy if the staging isn't good enough?

Are you telling me that all the cars in Singapore only have front speakers? How could that be posssible!?!

Are u genuinely interested in helping? or u just wanna be heard?

I will be leaving in a few days time and I would really benefit from some genuine help instead of some irrelevant comments abt Rice Fads.

Cheers

Wonderbread
05-20-2003, 02:10 PM
the reason many high level cars go with only front speakers is becuase the idea of a PURE SQ car is to have it sound like everything is coming from directly in front of you... as if it were being performed live on your dashboard. for most people, rear fill with coaxials is FINE. for those kodas you will want to send them at least 75 watts RMS a side to make them truly perform. it would be fine if you decided to bridge it to the front channels, but would be a little soft on the Kodas run in 4 channel mode.

now to adress this last exchange, chill out. He was trying to help, he wasn't completely clear on your situation (he did the best he could witht eh info you provided.) He gave you the information HE HAD. Either way, no need to start childish bickering. Just say that your situation is different and maybe say why.

paikiah
05-20-2003, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by Acid
Man.....Spare me your ignorance abt Singapore. I've been there 3 times and There's more than just Rice fads! A stone's throw from my office are some neat steak houses and restuarants.I will be given a company car(Honda civic Vti) for 2 years and that's why I am willing to invest in the car audio. and you tell me that u have stayed in the region....

What I really don't need is your knowledge abt countries.....But seriously...I think u missed out all the questions that I have posted. In fact after reading your reply.It seems that I have more questions for you.

What is " SQ cars only have speakers in front, not at the back"?

I have driven a Honda intergra back in singapore and I remember there were speakers on the front doors and a pair at the back.

Would anyone reading care to comment on setting up 2 pairs of components speakers within one car? issit better? wouldn't it sound kinda messy if the staging isn't good enough?

Are you telling me that all the cars in Singapore only have front speakers? How could that be posssible!?!

Are u genuinely interested in helping? or u just wanna be heard?

I will be leaving in a few days time and I would really benefit from some genuine help instead of some irrelevant comments abt Rice Fads.

Cheers


*sigh*...Oh Acid....

I've been living in Malaysia and been in SIngapore longer than you,... a WHOLE lot longer...;)

Would 17 years of stay in taht region be enough to tell you that I know about the area?

Ever heard of the Kiasu culture? I thought not...

If you know Singapore, please do tell me what my name means. ;)

paikiah
05-20-2003, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by Wonderbread
the reason many high level cars go with only front speakers is becuase the idea of a PURE SQ car is to have it sound like everything is coming from directly in front of you... as if it were being performed live on your dashboard. for most people, rear fill with coaxials is FINE. for those kodas you will want to send them at least 75 watts RMS a side to make them truly perform. it would be fine if you decided to bridge it to the front channels, but would be a little soft on the Kodas run in 4 channel mode.

now to adress this last exchange, chill out. He was trying to help, he wasn't completely clear on your situation (he did the best he could witht eh info you provided.) He gave you the information HE HAD. Either way, no need to start childish bickering. Just say that your situation is different and maybe say why.

Thanks for the comment, wonderbread, but I think I got the "Singapore" situation under control...

I DID live in that region for 17..;)

azngurlbaybee
05-21-2003, 12:25 AM
Yikes! So many arguments in this thread...I didn't know 6.5" comps generated so much rage :crazy:

paikiah
05-21-2003, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by azngurlbaybee
Yikes! So many arguments in this thread...I didn't know 6.5" comps generated so much rage :crazy:

and we have you to thank, justagirl ;)

Acid
05-21-2003, 10:25 AM
Si mi lan jiao?

gimme a break..will ya.......paikiah in direct translation in hokkien dialect means bad kid...or in jargon means a gangster.....don't think that you are the only wise guy around....17 years in that region and you tell me that they only have cars that have front speakers?!?.i really doubt so........In fact if uu really think you know singapore so well......let's just say you are a real "kay kiang" . if u understand that....that just simplifies u.....

Just to state the facts that I am not here to argue over who knows singapore more......BUT I am here to learn more abt Car audio....I guess you failed to see the real reasons why I have posted my questions on car audio......Not on Rice fads....

and Finally......any answers for my car audio questions?

If you have nothing constructive to say abt car audio.....might as well save you the trouble of typing in some more singapore questions..

I hope u finally understand what i was asking everyone abt..and that's abt CAR AUDIO!.Not abt Singapore.

Ultimately,I thank wonder bread for a conclusive and informative reply that answers my questions abt the kodas....If we had more of your kind.this world would be a better place instaed of all these misplaced answers that had done nothing to answer my questions.

I treasure comments or views if they are related to the topic... If you are going to tell me abt your travel tales....Save it for the travel forum.....Purlease.....I still doubt that paikiah was really genuine in helping...all he went on was abt how much he knew singapore..

peace

paikiah
05-21-2003, 12:09 PM
Si mi lan jiao?

Lu bia tia ceebai? hongkan ah..
na ciaomoweilah :)
Lu botachi, lu si mi lan ciao~

gimme a break..will ya.......paikiah in direct translation in hokkien dialect means bad kid...or in jargon means a gangster.....don't think that you are the only wise guy around....17 years in that region and you tell me that they only have cars that have front speakers?!?.i really doubt so........In fact if uu really think you know singapore so well......let's just say you are a real "kay kiang" . if u understand that....that just simplifies u.....

Man, the nerve of some people...
Well, it saddens me to see that you still have yet to perfect the english language OR Hokkien...

"SQ cars only have speakers in front, not at the back."

Where in that statement do you see me say Singapore cars only have front speakers? I did say SQ cars, and SQ does not refer to the callsign of Singapore airlines. I still say I know a whole lot more about Singapore than what you know at this current moment in time.


Just to state the facts that I am not here to argue over who knows singapore more......BUT I am here to learn more abt Car audio....I guess you failed to see the real reasons why I have posted my questions on car audio......Not on Rice fads....

YOu, again, failed to see what I initially wrote. Ask any SQ person about rears and they will discourage you. See? I'm still helping. In fact, you might find in my other posts that I don't go hostile on others, I don't put down others, and I get my facts as striaght as possible before posting them. I suggest you do that sometime too.


and Finally......any answers for my car audio questions?

If you have nothing constructive to say abt car audio.....might as well save you the trouble of typing in some more singapore questions..

I believe I have put in effort towards helping you by mentioning the Koda's, which has had great reviews from respectable people in the business as well as in this forum. That's not help? So be it then.

I hope u finally understand what i was asking everyone abt..and that's abt CAR AUDIO!.Not abt Singapore.

I was trying to help you out a bit, but if you're gonna swipe my hand away, you don't need that help. Comprendo?

Ultimately,I thank wonder bread for a conclusive and informative reply that answers my questions abt the kodas....If we had more of your kind.this world would be a better place instaed of all these misplaced answers that had done nothing to answer my questions.


And we would have a better world without people who turn away help when it's right under their nose.


I treasure comments or views if they are related to the topic... If you are going to tell me abt your travel tales....Save it for the travel forum.....Purlease.....I still doubt that paikiah was really genuine in helping...all he went on was abt how much he knew singapore..


travel tales, I think not. I still say I know Sing a WHOLE lot more than you do, Acid, just like how you'd know your hometown and surrounding areas. Genuine in helping? I'll lethe rest of the members decide for themselves.

peace

btw, since you clearly don't understand, SQ means Sound Quality. Another type of system would be SPL, and don't read it as some callsign again.

I believe you do owe me an apology.

Acid
05-22-2003, 04:24 AM
owe U a apology? Kum lim peh lan jiao seng..

I am a singaporean and who knows the country better than singaporean. i have stayed there all my life before taking up a PR in Australia just three years back. So stop telling me you know my country more than me and your english is any better than mine. Look at all your previous posts that were riddled in speeling and grammer mistakes. Look at your sorry self before u comment on others. Hokkien happens to be my dialect and the cheek of you to call yourself paikiah. So do u still think that you know singapore better than me?

This is not an forum for you to claim that you know more abt a country than anyone else. Do u know that this is a car audio forum? why do u keep going on that note? is ther anything that you didn't comprehend? Bottomline is I am here to learn abt car audio, and if u could have answered like wonderbread instead of telling me your travel tales. All these would be unneccessary? Faham Tak?

if u claim that I have attacked u, u have not done anything better than commenting on my english.this isn't a english class and you ain't a english teacher....
Again I have told u if you ave nothing better to say.might as well zip it.

I have stayed there for 28 years and no one in singapore calls their car as SQ cars. It doesn't mean that macdonald's is big in US and we all call them mcdonald cars? of course I didn't take it as a call sign......but neither did i know what was SQ..and the topic was on Singapore cars....I would also think you were refering to singapore cars..If I knew so much abt Sound quality.would u think that I would be asking questions?

I have went to some respectable shops in singapore when i was back for a holiday and none of them discouraged me abt rear speakers. didn't reallty trust them.That's the reason why I turned to the forum for help. And in your first reply. I see a message in broken english that didn't shed any light on my questions. Do some soul searching and reflect on what you have said before preaching to the whole world that u are trying to help. this is how it goes"

"SQ cars only have speakers in front, not at the back. Singapore... what kind of car do you think youre' going to get? Are you going with family or by yourself? You do realise SIngapore'e prices of cars is one of the highest IN THE WORLD? It would be very hard for you to get approval by the govt for a car, never mind a second car."

I've lived in Malaysia (the country jsut above, and frequently entered Sing by car) so I know a BIT about Singapore and the surrounding areas. Man, you better start accepting rice fads, cause that's all you're gonna get."

IF you wanna know more, pm me or something.."

I can see that u are trying to help..I need answers as I will be leaving australia soon and I won;t be able to get in touch with car audio until I am done setting up a few things. That explains why I need these answers quiclky. and that didn't really asnwer my initial questions abt the amp.speakers and setup? i was asking abt the compatibility of the system i bought and u were telling me abt SQ only. why not just tell me that the setup or the system is bought isn't compatible as that what i really need to know.


It's never in my interest to put down someone unless I can see that they ain't there to genuinely help? Did u see me putting down wonderbread? That's someone who was genuinely helping and i am thankful of that. if u think i swiped your hand away.let me just say that u didn't even appear to be helping in the first place.

and everyone knows that u didn't offer a reply that was like wonderbread's...which was concise and to the point.

and when i meant the rear.i didn't mean the boot. comprendo?

I do not doubt that u have given quality posts in the past but this time round.....I don't think it was any where near average.

I have found out all i needed and I beleive this is getting nowhere....If u feel there's still a need to continue...u can go on by yourself...

Like i said, I am here tolearn abt car audio.nothing else....U learnt something and I have learnt something...

I have also found adire dealer in Singapore...I will get there to check out the price and SQ myself.

Peace

paikiah
05-22-2003, 04:26 AM
:rolleyes:

spoken like a true kiasu newbie.

Singaporean, lived in singapore for 28 years, but only been back three times.

Whatever suits you then. oh boy, I'm done.

Acid
05-22-2003, 09:49 AM
Grow up Kid! It seems like you are more Kiasu then me.

What's wrong with staying at a place for 28 years and only going back 3 times? so it seems that you have nothing better to say. U start commenting on my tRavel habits?

GROW UP KID!!

THIS IS A CAR AUDIO FORUM!

Period

paikiah
05-22-2003, 09:55 AM
as expected...

hopeless :rolleyes:

Wonderbread
05-22-2003, 01:28 PM
I... want.... my.... mod.... powers....

ss3079
05-22-2003, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by Wonderbread
I... want.... my.... mod.... powers....

Sometime this week...hopefully.

- Steve

Wonderbread
05-22-2003, 09:42 PM
Hopefully... we've been waiting for a long time.

DAudio
05-03-2004, 09:26 PM
cant believe CDT isnt number 1. Maybe not many people heard of them...yet.

ss3079
05-03-2004, 09:29 PM
Amazingly old thread.

:chicken: :banghead:

- Steve

paikiah
05-03-2004, 10:00 PM
Amazingly old thread.

:chicken: :banghead:

- Steve
it sure does bring back memories..:)

Acid, thinking SQ cars meant Singaporean cars..lol~ and then has the nerve to try and criticise my english;)

CAMSHAFT
05-09-2004, 03:33 PM
ive been asking opinions a lot but i think that the polk momos are waaayyy to neglected on this forum.

The guys at Polk Audio know how to make great components!!

trungthiendo
05-13-2004, 04:20 AM
yeah after surfing these boards for a while, you realize that people just repeat what others say...like xxx sounding loud and clear,

i by no mean doubt that, but you really can't say that stuff when you have not heard it at all...its fine because a lot of people have heard xxx and they are reputable, but yeah a lot of that stuff going around

i always ask questions here first because it lets me get a little perspective of what the general opinion is and then i go and find out for myself