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FiveseveN
05-21-2007, 09:49 PM
I am planning a complete upgrade of my factory system. I have an 03 Ford Excursion Limited. I am getting ready to build a Car PC, I am a PC tech so this part will be easy for me. I am also going to Dynamat all of the doors, rear doors inside the rear trim and eventually the floor.

I want to upgrade my speakers with compontents but that is were my thoughts end. I am not sure what speakers to get and what would be the best set up as far as 2way or 3way.

I listen to mainly Rock,Country,R&B and some Hip Hop.....my focus is on Quality and not SPL.

My EX has speakers in the front doors, second row passenger doors and next to the third row seat.

I also want to fit some 10 (12" max) subs in there but I cant find one place to put them. I dont want a sub box and take up my cargo room and the only other option I could find was a sub box built into the front center console. This is not an option. They could be mounted in the rear doors but they would be facing forward and sound horrible.

This all boils down to the questions I am looking for answers too:

1. What type of component system (2way or 3way)
If 3way then kick panel or will it fit in door, not sure i like the kick panel.

2. What combination of component (front only or front and second row)
Should I use the third row for 6" subs, or component or something else.

3. What all options do I have for subs.
Outside of some crazy high dollar fabrication.

4. What brand of components would be good for what I listen too.
I am thinking Focal,MB Quart,JL or something.

I am hoping some of you have worked or own an Excursion and are familiar with all the spaces behind the panels and such.

I need as much info and help as possible, no one around here wants to brainstorm and give me any good idea's.

Thank you in advance,

FiveseveN

FiveseveN
05-22-2007, 11:13 AM
anyone? I know someone has to have some ideas.

Gary S
05-22-2007, 02:43 PM
I want to upgrade my speakers with components but that is were my thoughts end. I am not sure what speakers to get and what would be the best set up as far as 2way or 3way.



I also want to fit some 10 (12" max) subs in there but I cant find one place to put them. I dont want a sub box and take up my cargo room and the only other option I could find was a sub box built into the front center console. This is not an option. They could be mounted in the rear doors but they would be facing forward and sound horrible.



1. What type of component system (2way or 3way)
If 3way then kick panel or will it fit in door, not sure i like the kick panel.

2. What combination of component (front only or front and second row)
Should I use the third row for 6" subs, or component or something else.

3. What all options do I have for subs.
Outside of some crazy high dollar fabrication.

4. What brand of components would be good for what I listen too.
I am thinking Focal,MB Quart,JL or something.


FiveseveN


- For mids and highs, a front component set is all that is needed and will sound better (unless you have surround sound)

- If you can get a sealed installation, kick panels are better than doors... doors put the speaker nearest to you substantially closer to you... more equal path lengths is better.

- difficult to get a three-way all in the kicks, so speaker placement, one of the most important things, usually suffers. Nevertheless, 3-ways have advantages of their own.

- I would leave the system stock unless you are going to add a substantial, dedicated subwoofer system. No need for it to be a boom car, but extended response is one of the hallmarks of quality sound.

- A dedicated box for a sub is the best way to go... (at least one 10", but I recommend a couple 10" or 12") while it's normally accepted that the sub bass is non-directional, a quiet sub install is helpful in giving the illusion of bass coming from the front/front speakers and should be your goal. A few small 6" subs in the door might not cut it... thin subs like the ed 10" in the rear would be better, but putting speakers in what equates to thin sheet metal enclosures that want to flex and ring like a bell may not be as quiet as a box.

Front component speakers, to me, are one of the most important pieces of equipment. (Installation quality, system design, speaker plaecement, and tunning are more important than electronic pieces) The best are those that sound best to you. But, you usually don't have the opportunity to listen to even a fraction of the speakers on the market, the stores just don't carry much these days. For kicks, take a look at PPi 356cs or Cerwin Vega V-max... focal and Quart are good, but you might have to spend twice the money to get comparable sound quality. The speakers I mentioned are designed to compete with upper end speakers but at a fair price.

For doors, Rockford Fosgate T series are excellent components as well. They make a 6X8 that will drop into factory doors with little to no modification (except the tweeter will need to be mounted separately). The bigger surface area of the 6X8 will give additional midbass.

FiveseveN
05-22-2007, 06:42 PM
Gary, thanks for the input..........I appreciate the time you spent typing it out.

To give you (and anyone else) a little more info.

I was thinking that if I did a 3way that I would put on speaker in the door, one in the kick and the tweeter could mount somewhere optimal. Im just not sure how much the kick speaker would be in the way.

Since components of some sort will be in the front, would it be wise to put them in the second row.......im not worried about cost just getting the best sound for everyone.

The 6" sub idea I thought about was just putting them in the factory space that the speakers in the third row are in. This is only if I cant find a place for subs behind the third row seat. Ideally I would put components or a pair of 6.5" speakers there.

The sub seems to be the PITA, doesnt seem to be any place to put it, other than discarding my spare tire and using that room to have a custom made box. If you or anyone has a clue as to any other sub placement options. Not sure how much room there is behind the trim.......although the trim does stick out about 6" so maybe there is room for something.

Thanks again and I hope for more responses.

FiveseveN

RidgelineNate
05-22-2007, 06:50 PM
check to see if JL makes a stealthbox for your vehicle...

Hintzyboy
05-22-2007, 07:15 PM
If you can't find room in an EXCURSION for a small sealed sub box, you are beyond our help my friend. Pick up a pair of Phenix Gold RSd10d's or Memphis MClass 10s. The box need only extend about 6-8" into the cargo area. As far as the front stage goes, I would say get a good set of 2-way comps in the front, and a set of good coaxials in the second OR third row location. For comps, look into companies like Rainbow Car Audio, Crystal Mobilesound, Alpine (only the Type-X set), Pioneer Premier (the TS-C720 PRS set), and CDT to name a few. Pioneer REVs would be a good choice for the rear coaxials, and maybe the Rainbow Dreamline coaxs. Grab yourself a Memphis MCH-1300 (Big 5-channel amp), and you're all set.

Hintzyboy
05-22-2007, 07:17 PM
I'm sure you could find some space under the seats for a few good 8" subs too.

tbasile1
05-22-2007, 07:20 PM
here ya go my friend!!

http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_stealthbox_detail.php?fit_id=1342

FiveseveN
05-22-2007, 07:35 PM
Thanks for the replies.

I have seen the JL subbox and I cant give up my front console. I can find room in my EX for a a sub box but I am trying to find a place it can be built in. I dont want to give up my cargo space since that is the reason I bought a tank.

As for under the seats, the fronts have the power seat modules, and the second row captains chairs are like the fronts without the power modules but I still can barely get my hands under there. The third row seat has enough room for a small childs hands to get under there.

I guess I will have to dump the spare tire and use that space for a sub.

What about the components............should I do them in the second row as well.

Hintzyboy
05-22-2007, 08:26 PM
Edit.

Hintzyboy
05-22-2007, 08:26 PM
Thanks for the replies.

I have seen the JL subbox and I cant give up my front console. I can find room in my EX for a a sub box but I am trying to find a place it can be built in. I dont want to give up my cargo space since that is the reason I bought a tank.

As for under the seats, the fronts have the power seat modules, and the second row captains chairs are like the fronts without the power modules but I still can barely get my hands under there. The third row seat has enough room for a small childs hands to get under there.

I guess I will have to dump the spare tire and use that space for a sub.

What about the components............should I do them in the second row as well.

No. I would put a comp set in the front, and a coax set in the 3rd row. No need to go overboard on speakers up front. A good, properly installed comp set in front should actually be enough for everyone, but with that much airspace, I would throw in some rear fill just to be safe.

pilyin
05-23-2007, 06:21 PM
You might want to check out earthquake audio's STS line. They offer thin subs. The 10 inch is under 3" in mounting depth. You can probably get that into your trunk while keeping almost all of your trunk space.

check out: earthquakesound.com

FiveseveN
05-23-2007, 09:41 PM
I will check that out...........thanks

Any comments on components that would be good for my style of music.

Would Focal,MB Quart, Dyna,Diamond be any good?

FiveseveN

Hintzyboy
05-23-2007, 09:42 PM
If you have he cash, it's hard to beat a set of Dyns

pinkfloydms
05-23-2007, 09:50 PM
Check out the Polk sr6500 components.

pinkfloydms
05-23-2007, 09:51 PM
Also, whats wrong with putting components all the way through the cabin where the stock speakers were?

FiveseveN
05-23-2007, 10:01 PM
Thats what I was asking in my original post...........sorry it was so long I am sure alot of people didnt want to sit through that.

But yeah I was wondering if it would sound that much better if I put components in the front, second row and third row. Also if I should do 3way or 2way in any or all of the area's.

I think I am going to toss the spare tire and put a sub there, it seems to be my only real option. Maybe put a couple 10" Rainbows there?

FiveseveN

sue bee
05-23-2007, 10:21 PM
sub in the tire well of an excursion? i think that is going to be far as hell from your ear. you can tweak it with time advance/delay though i imagine. still, kinda a hassle.

FiveseveN
05-23-2007, 11:05 PM
sub in the tire well of an excursion? i think that is going to be far as hell from your ear. you can tweak it with time advance/delay though i imagine. still, kinda a hassle.

I have no other options. There is no room for a sub in front of or under the third row seat. There is no room for one in front or under the second row, and I cant give up my front row center console as its being used.

The only place is inside the trim somewhere which doesnt seem to be any room, or behind the third row seat which is were my cargo space and spare tire is. So it makes sense to give up the tire since its wasted space. The tire can be relocated outside the car if I want to keep it.

I cant imagine that it is that far to need any kind of delay.

FiveseveN

Headbanger
05-23-2007, 11:14 PM
You could pull the third row of seats and stick a box there. I mean how often are you packing 8 people in there anyway?

Igno
05-23-2007, 11:51 PM
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/jlaudio_pages.php?page_id=213

no way you can't find a place for these subs out in a month, and pioneer premeir has thin subs, I just stealthed a TC sounds 1000 in a sealed box in the rear panel of my GTO, just so the bass would be in the cabin

Hintzyboy
05-24-2007, 12:39 AM
How much of your center console are you using? The JL stealthbox still retains some storage and lets you keep your cupholders.

FiveseveN
05-24-2007, 12:26 PM
Just so you dont get the wrong idea, the spare tire is inside the vehicle not mounted underneath. So the subs that would be in the spare tire location would be in the vehichle. There is just no way that it is so far back there it would need advanced delay. The center console is all being used, I have 3 things mounted in there that cannot be relocated.

Right now Im just going to work from front to back over a 2 month period. Gives me time to figure out what to do with the sub. So I am going to start with the car PC and front components and dynamat that area, then I will move towards the back.

Just got to figure out what components im going to order, and what type 2way or 3way.

FiveseveN

Gary S
05-24-2007, 02:46 PM
Let me try to put it in other words.... Excellent sound in a vehicle is full of compromises. Usually, we settle for better sound for the front seat passengers, where people are the majority of time. This dictates mids and highs in the front only... mids and highs in the back will give you no front sound stage... a live performance usually is in front of you and has you looking forward.. this tends to give you the most natural sound.

Many people are brainwashed by the factory speaker placement syndrome... just because car manufacturers would lead you to believe that a speaker at every seat is better does not mean it is so.

Movie theaters do have speakers on the side walls and sometimes the back... but these are sent a dedicated surround signal which has no mono/center stage information. Consequently, while there is a 360 degree sound field, there is still a virtual front stage, where people in front of you on the screen sound like they are in front of you. Putting stereo speakers in he rear of a car, unless they are surround or delayed speakers, is not the way to the best sound.

And if you put a high end component set in the front and lesser coaxes in the rear, your sound will be a blend of the high end and coaxes speakers and sound medeocre... so you may as well put the same cheap coaxes all around if you are going to fill all the holes.

I would just put one good set of components up front... while it won't sound quite as good for the rear passengers, it will still sound good, and the front seat will sound even better.

Best set up would be speakers in the kicks. Second best would be a three-way in the doors, but only if all speakers can be kept as low in the doors as a two-way system.

In the case of a two-way system in the doors, as I said, everything else being equal, a 6X8 has the potential for better midbass, efficiency, and depending on the axis in the doors, could have better or worse off-axis dispersion than 6.5" round.

If you put some very good components up front, add the sub in the rear, with a generous amount of power and a sub am/channel with a high order crossover (18 - 24 db per octave rather than the standard 12), And an Excellent installation, I think you would be amazed. And if you only have room for a single ten or twelve inch sub, don't be afraid to put twice the amount of power or more on the sub as on the front components.... it's easy to turn down the gains if you have too much, but if you don't have enough output to keep up with the front stage... I have seen people that refuse to install an adequate subwoofer system disappointed too many times.