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View Full Version : New project coming soon... possibly. Honduh



Eugenics
05-18-2007, 10:07 PM
Not sure what chassis i'm going to go with. But i think i've determined what block i'll be going with.

Was looking at a k20/k24... but meh.

Thinking a H22, i'll be building it for upto 250fwhp n/a. Hopefully i'll be able to see a redline around 9k (around 200lbs of torque as well). I'll be happy with around 220whp, i just want a very fast/high revving engine. Although midrange torque is also a priority, gotta to pull me out of those twisties. :)

Wont be cheap, but its something i can build up slowly with whatever money i have laying around. I might just run whatever engine the vehicle i decide on comes with while i build up the h block rather than pull it out constantly.

Thinking i'll be running a B Series tranny.

Should i go this route, the build will include resleeeeving, new pistons rods and crank, all balanced. Lots of headwork and all that funstuff. I'm getting antsy just thinking about it. I said i'd never do another FWD car again but i loved my accord so much, so meh.

N/A FTW!!!

Input/Conversation is welcome.

spudracer326
05-18-2007, 10:14 PM
put it in a four door integra(great chassis for handling, more so then the two door).....would be a sick canyon carver!! also dont throw out the k series so quick..that kinda build is spendy anyway you twist it...a k20a with cams/intake/exhaust/kpro will do better then the numbers your looking at witha fully built h22, and its not like swapping an h22 is much easier...just my 2cents

azbass
05-18-2007, 10:16 PM
ugh why hondumb?

DDeitz
05-18-2007, 10:20 PM
put it on a older gen prelude baby ;) B18 200FWHP id say no shiategra since everyone and their mother owns one, if u could find a AE86 for cheap might be nice too ;) oops didnt see the N\A part..

Skip01
05-18-2007, 10:32 PM
http://www.importreview.com/d_2.2.html

220hp is nothin for a H22 really....no need to sleeve...unless ur boring out some more.

Id go with a 4dr Civic....same weight basically as a HB but with 2 more doors...im bias though

Good Luck....check out all motor section at www.honda-tech.com great info

Eugenics
05-18-2007, 10:38 PM
put it in a four door integra(great chassis for handling, more so then the two door).....would be a sick canyon carver!! also dont throw out the k series so quick..that kinda build is spendy anyway you twist it...a k20a with cams/intake/exhaust/kpro will do better then the numbers your looking at witha fully built h22, and its not like swapping an h22 is much easier...just my 2cents

Well if i decide to go with an accord or prelude it pretty much drops right in. Only really have to worry about obd and vtec wiring. Not a huge ordeal.

Also there really is quite a lot involved in a K swap as far as fabrication is involved (although now there are kits for just about every car i'm sure). And the block itself is about 3k right off the bat isn't it? Even so the K might be a the best option. I know as far as a free revving engine its hard to beat.


ugh why hondumb?

I personally like the way they handle better, they're also easier to work on. And the aftermarket support for them is larger. I'll always like VW's. But as far as a project car to tinker with. It's hard to beat a hondumb.

(not to mention i'm going n/a, which is not VW's forte)


put it on a older gen prelude baby ;) B18 200FWHP id say no shiategra since everyone and their mother owns one, if u could find a AE86 for cheap might be nice too ;) oops didnt see the N\A part..

Older preludes are a no go, and i really don't care for any of the B series engines except for the B18c5.... but those aren't easy to come by.

and it HAS to be n/a. I know as far as power goes, turbo is cheaper. But i just love n/a motors. I've thought about getting an is300 sometime. If i go that route i will definitely go turbo.

galacticmonkey
05-18-2007, 10:38 PM
You could always do it to a CRX and have a little sports car that will go decently fast and a nice little street setup with 1 12/2 10s.

A friend had a CRX. Was a fun little car to drive. Just like a go kart! :)

Eugenics
05-18-2007, 10:45 PM
I despise CRX's

right now i'm thinking:
94-95 2 door accord
92-96 lude

mayyyybe:
94+ teg (meh)
Civic hatch

Not sure if the wheelbase is long enough though. Like spud said, if i go with an integra, it'll probably be a four door.

Anonymous User
05-18-2007, 10:51 PM
i say a 96-00 4dr civic with a k20a.

i remember a few years back toda had a kit for the k20 that put the whp around near 240-250.. or you can do what super street did in there ep3, a k20a4 block w/ a k24 head.

Eugenics
05-18-2007, 10:51 PM
http://www.importreview.com/d_2.2.html

220hp is nothin for a H22 really....no need to sleeve...unless ur boring out some more.

Id go with a 4dr Civic....same weight basically as a HB but with 2 more doors...im bias though

Good Luck....check out all motor section at www.honda-tech.com great info

i've been a member of H-T since 04 :)

The only civic i would go with would be a hatch, and even there, i'm not so hot on that concept. The only reason i'm thinking about the hatch is weight. And a 4door civic would throw that out the window. Although they still are light.

probably don't need to sleeve the H22 at 220whp, or 250 really. But i want to do it while the engine is torn apart anyway. along with some port/polishing action. wewt! I will probably be doing some boring work as well. Those composite sleeves can goto hell.

spudracer326
05-18-2007, 11:09 PM
k swaps can be had for cheaper just gotta look around/get lucky....I had a k24(tsx) with a blown Head/valvetrain(block was all i wanted, was planning k20a2 head swap) that I got rid of for basically nothing..if you had posted this a couple weeks ago before i sold the motor to a buddy, ida sold you the motor for what I paid plus shipping...wouldent of even been a grand(only paid 500 for the motor...ohh and yes the k swaps are quite involved...but the pain of swapping them is well worth it...

Reson8
05-18-2007, 11:16 PM
If you go hatch, go with an 89-91 model....they tend to stand out a bit more...still had a kinda boxy look... I had one for the longest time, lightweight (for a hatch) and definetly a blast to drive.

Eugenics
05-18-2007, 11:16 PM
If i can get a K series that cheap i'll JUMP on it. any idea where i should look for situations/deals like yours?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v708/jd3jdm/Enginebay006.jpg

fap fap fap fap

jmanpc
05-18-2007, 11:21 PM
omg get a vtec prelude with a cold air intake and you'll run 10's easy.


(according to my shithead friend)

Eugenics
05-18-2007, 11:25 PM
omg get a vtec prelude with a cold air intake and you'll run 10's easy.


(according to my shithead friend)

exhaust should put me into the 8's if i go that route.

spudracer326
05-18-2007, 11:26 PM
If i can get a K series that cheap i'll JUMP on it. any idea where i should look for situations/deals like yours?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v708/jd3jdm/Enginebay006.jpg

fap fap fap fap

hang around people with a heavy foot...haha...also hit up junkyards...some dont know what they have...unfortunatly most do however.....but there is one moron for every four greedy bastards....also hit up insurance companys for possible cars, this also help if you have a friend in the biz...sometimes they can get you a totaled whole car for next to nothing, then you take what yu want and junk the rest...

hempy
05-19-2007, 12:08 AM
I despise CRX's

Sore subject?

Tearful memories?

Molestation?

Blove1991
05-19-2007, 12:31 AM
Buy a Corvette.....

/thread :)

No but really, the **** has just gotten annoying...you have bone stock hondas who throw a fart pipe on it and actually think they are hot **** and its just annoys the hell out of me......But I feel better when the Camaro's and Trans Am just **** on them around here

Eugenics
05-19-2007, 12:53 AM
Sore subject?

Tearful memories?

Molestation?

I just don't like them, don't think they're very good cars. Certainly would not enjoy owning one.


Buy a Corvette.....

/thread :)

No but really, the **** has just gotten annoying...you have bone stock hondas who throw a fart pipe on it and actually think they are hot **** and its just annoys the hell out of me......But I feel better when the Camaro's and Trans Am just **** on them around here

I don't understand what that has to do with the topic at hand.

bbka
05-19-2007, 03:15 AM
Haha figures you would waste your money on a slow all motor setup. Go with a 92-95 CX/VX hatch, they are very light and obd1, so you have cheap tuning options like Crome.

Disco potato + 1.8L b-series motor = Cheaper and more power/torque...

CJL
05-19-2007, 03:22 AM
You could always do it to a CRX and have a little sports car that will go decently fast and a nice little street setup with 1 12/2 10s.

A friend had a CRX. Was a fun little car to drive. Just like a go kart! :)

I like rexes, but i alwasy been concered about safety if i were to drive one..

Skip01
05-19-2007, 08:24 AM
Screw a Prelude itd be a waste for that motor(heavy *** cars)......i dont know what your intentions are to run but that might put you in low 14s on street tires honestly.

CRX are a lil old looking on the inside but if all you wanna do is go fast and have fun than thats a good route.

Accords would be a nice change a pace.....id put the K24 in...more tq is always welcome.....K24 and a 100shot BAM!!!!.....no traction=FUN...hehe

Keep us updated...i love a allmotor car built right

Eugenics
05-19-2007, 01:05 PM
Haha figures you would waste your money on a slow all motor setup. Go with a 92-95 CX/VX hatch, they are very light and obd1, so you have cheap tuning options like Crome.

Disco potato + 1.8L b-series motor = Cheaper and more power/torque...

you really dont know much about cars, much less driving... so i'm not concerned about your opinion.

250hp is plenty for one of these cars. i'm not drag racing, and i know how to drive. and yes these cars do need TORQUE despite what you may think.

ricer.


Screw a Prelude itd be a waste for that motor(heavy *** cars)......i dont know what your intentions are to run but that might put you in low 14s on street tires honestly.

CRX are a lil old looking on the inside but if all you wanna do is go fast and have fun than thats a good route.

Accords would be a nice change a pace.....id put the K24 in...more tq is always welcome.....K24 and a 100shot BAM!!!!.....no traction=FUN...hehe

Keep us updated...i love a allmotor car built right

its a possiblity, i'll keep my eyes open for a K motor. really not looking to drag race though, i think its a huge waste of potential for a fwd car.

most of my money will be spent on the suspension probably. That and redistributing weight, etc. etc. Handling :)

ngsm13
05-19-2007, 02:06 PM
n00bx.

nG

Eugenics
05-19-2007, 03:02 PM
:(

azbass
05-19-2007, 04:19 PM
I personally like the way they handle better, they're also easier to work on. And the aftermarket support for them is larger. I'll always like VW's. But as far as a project car to tinker with. It's hard to beat a hondumb.

(not to mention i'm going n/a, which is not VW's forte)



.

whats wrong with a chopped mk1 with a vr6? who cares about handling :naughty:

Fast1one
05-19-2007, 04:26 PM
Honda hatch FTW, awesome fast little cars. i don't care what anyone says, Hondas are good, reliable cars with great technology behind them. Anyone who says otherwise is just plain ignorant...

However, even if a Honda is superior, I still prefer my max :naughty:

azbass
05-19-2007, 04:28 PM
lol 90's honda technology

azbass
05-19-2007, 04:29 PM
and all stock cars can be reliable, modded not so much anymore....

that goes for ever car :fyi:

Fast1one
05-19-2007, 05:09 PM
and all stock cars can be reliable, modded not so much anymore....

that goes for ever car :fyi:All depends on how much you mod silly. It you raise the compression to hell and advance the timing of course reliability is going to drop. A few bolt ons and dyno tuning wont...

Tell you one thing, ill take Honda reliability over VW any day, no offense.

ngsm13
05-19-2007, 05:11 PM
Oh snaps!

nG

bbka
05-19-2007, 06:01 PM
you really dont know much about cars, much less driving... so i'm not concerned about your opinion.

250hp is plenty for one of these cars. i'm not drag racing, and i know how to drive. and yes these cars do need TORQUE despite what you may think.

ricer.


Lol you couldn't be more wrong. The fact is and the point I am trying to make is a stock GSR with a gt28rs turbo setup will be MUCH cheaper (thousands), make a ton more power and TORQUE, and it will OWN your gay all motor h22 or k-series setup on a road course easily.

Here are some example dynos sheets. The turbo setup powerband owns the all motor setup from 3500 rpms to redline. Look at both torques curves, is it really worth it to go all motor for a tiny bit more torque below 3500 rpms? Your rpms won't ever get that low when your road racing, so that extra tiny bit of power isn't even usable.

Built K24/K20 all motor setup (will cost a shitload of money to swap and build)
http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=3925

Stock GSR w/gt28rs turbo kit (will cost less than just the k-series swap alone)
http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=3615

So I just don't see why you would want to waste money on an all motor setup. Oh and I don't want to hear bs about a turbo not being good for road racing, if your car is tuned properly you will be perfectly fine. Whatever though it's your money. Go ahead and ignore me, ill be laughing when some random guy with a stock b-series motor and turbo setup that didn't spend close to what you did, does circles around your expensive all motor setup at the track lol.

Fast1one
05-19-2007, 06:24 PM
Lol you couldn't be more wrong. The fact is and the point I am trying to make is a stock GSR with a gt28rs turbo setup will be MUCH cheaper (thousands), make a ton more power and TORQUE, and it will OWN your gay all motor h22 or k-series setup on a road course easily.

Here are some example dynos sheets. The turbo setup powerband owns the all motor setup from 3500 rpms to redline. Look at both torques curves, is it really worth it to go all motor for a tiny bit more torque below 3500 rpms? Your rpms won't ever get that low when your road racing, so that extra tiny bit of power isn't even usable.

Built K24/K20 all motor setup (will cost a shitload of money to swap and build)
http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=3925

Stock GSR w/gt28rs turbo kit (will cost less than just the k-series swap alone)
http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=3615

So I just don't see why you would want to waste money on an all motor setup. Oh and I don't want to hear bs about a turbo not being good for road racing, if your car is tuned properly you will be perfectly fine. Whatever though it's your money. Go ahead and ignore me, ill be laughing when some random guy with a stock b-series motor and turbo setup that didn't spend close to what you did, does circles around your expensive all motor setup at the track lol.You are a retard...nothing compares to the response of an N/A setup, ESPECIALLY with ITBs. Besides, not all of us have the TIME to invest on a turbo setup. Takes WAY more time to do it right, not to mention how unreliable, unpredictable they are. Cheap power comes at a different cost, some of us would rather spend a little more cash on an N/A setup to benefit in the long run...

Eugenics
05-19-2007, 06:52 PM
Lol you couldn't be more wrong. The fact is and the point I am trying to make is a stock GSR with a gt28rs turbo setup will be MUCH cheaper (thousands), make a ton more power and TORQUE, and it will OWN your gay all motor h22 or k-series setup on a road course easily.

Here are some example dynos sheets. The turbo setup powerband owns the all motor setup from 3500 rpms to redline. Look at both torques curves, is it really worth it to go all motor for a tiny bit more torque below 3500 rpms? Your rpms won't ever get that low when your road racing, so that extra tiny bit of power isn't even usable.

Built K24/K20 all motor setup (will cost a shitload of money to swap and build)
http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=3925

Stock GSR w/gt28rs turbo kit (will cost less than just the k-series swap alone)
http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=3615

So I just don't see why you would want to waste money on an all motor setup. Oh and I don't want to hear bs about a turbo not being good for road racing, if your car is tuned properly you will be perfectly fine. Whatever though it's your money. Go ahead and ignore me, ill be laughing when some random guy with a stock b-series motor and turbo setup that didn't spend close to what you did, does circles around your expensive all motor setup at the track lol.


Perhaps you dont understand preference.

Those cars would have to make everything up in the straightaway, which is fine, but i choose to drive with finesse rather than brute force.

Hondas already have a weight bias towards the front, i dont want to add to that problem.

As i have said before 250hp will be plenty for me. I dont have a ***** problem, i'm not out to go in a straight line any quicker. If that were the case, i would buy an F-body and call it a day.

I enjoy all motor setups quite a bit more, i like very high revving responsive engines.

I'm not confined to your budget, i dont have to take a piece of **** and bolt on a turbo so i can race people on the highway.

I will probably be using this motor in a MR2 or something later on down the road. Once again, wont need any extra weight.

I would LOVE for you to make a thread on honda-tech and explain your point of view and be just as brash and childish as you are here. But i highly doubt you would ever have the balls to do that. You know you're a troll, a throw away, a child, a worthless piece of ****. Why do you need us to tell you?

Incase you are foolish enough to think anyone shares your point of view, please... please make a thread. You shameless *****.

bbka
05-19-2007, 07:09 PM
You are a retard...nothing compares to the response of an N/A setup, ESPECIALLY with ITBs. Besides, not all of us have the TIME to invest on a turbo setup. Takes WAY more time to do it right, not to mention how unreliable, unpredictable they are. Cheap power comes at a different cost, some of us would rather spend a little more cash on an N/A setup to benefit in the long run...

Haha whatever dude, ball bearing response owns you...:cool:

It doesn't take time to do it right, turbo setups are very reliable and predictable when you build it right, so everything you said is complete bs, but good try. Oh and in this case it's not even close to cheap power, it's VERY expensive to build a good all motor setup, but still a ton less power. That's why all motor is gay.

Fast1one
05-19-2007, 07:13 PM
Haha whatever dude, ball bearing response owns you...:cool:

It doesn't take time to do it right, turbo setups are very reliable and predictable when you build it right, so everything you said is complete bs, but good try. Oh and in this case it's not even close to cheap power, it's VERY expensive to build a good all motor setup, but still a ton less power. That's why all motor is gay.Its not all that expensive...Maxima owners have reached near 250WHP with well under 2 grand, a high displacement 4 cyl will have no problem reaching 200WHP with little monetary input...

I guess you have never been in a car with ITBs have you? Let alone driven one...Do you even know what ITBs are? Fail...

bbka
05-19-2007, 07:21 PM
Bahaha, honda-tech? Come on that website is only good for pictures and bullshit, there's no good info there. But yes I wonder what would happen if I posted there? Hmm 115,000 topics in the F/I forum and only 35,000 topics in the all motor forum? Looks like the majority are in favor of turbo.

Why do you keep bringing up straight lines and drag racing? I didn't mention that at all, has nothing to do with this argument. I'm simply looking at the powerbands of the motors, and the turbo setup owns the all motor setup from about 3500 up. Response blah blah blah, ball bearing turbos spool fast as hell, with that extra power the all motor setup won't have a chance.

Haha I love it how you just go straight you bashing me, instead of sticking to the topic, maybe it's because you know I am right. The only reason your going all motor is preference, and that shows how gay you are, because like I said, all motor hondas are gay... and slow. There are some fast all motor setups, but it costs a shitload of money to make them fast, not even close to worth it after you add everything up.

Eugenics
05-19-2007, 07:23 PM
Bahaha, honda-tech? Come on that website is only good for pictures and bullshit, there's no good info there. But yes I wonder what would happen if I posted there? Hmm 115,000 topics in the F/I forum and only 35,000 topics in the all motor forum? Looks like the majority are in favor of turbo.

Why do you keep bringing up straight lines and drag racing? I didn't mention that at all, has nothing to do with this argument. I'm simply looking at the powerbands of the motors, and the turbo setup owns the all motor setup from about 3500 up. Response blah blah blah, ball bearing turbos spool fast as hell, with that extra power the all motor setup won't have a chance.

Haha I love it how you just go straight you bashing me, instead of sticking to the topic, maybe it's because you know I am right. The only reason your going all motor is preference, and that shows how gay you are, because like I said, all motor hondas are gay... and slow. There are some fast all motor setups, but it costs a shitload of money to make them fast, not even close to worth it after you add everything up.

I actually addressed all of your points. Your bias's cripple you.

bbka
05-19-2007, 07:25 PM
Its not all that expensive...Maxima owners have reached near 250WHP with well under 2 grand, a high displacement 4 cyl will have no problem reaching 200WHP with little monetary input...

I guess you have never been in a car with ITBs have you? Let alone driven one...Do you even know what ITBs are? Fail...

Were talking about hondas here buddy, specifically k-series and h-series, and yes they are very expensive. I have also drove and been in a cars with ITB's, they are loud and slow, what's your point? I have also been in plenty of cars with turbo setups, you can't really beat a properly built turbo setup. Personally I don't like fast spool, but in this case for a road course car, a fast spooling gt28rs on a 1.8L motor will own.

azbass
05-19-2007, 07:28 PM
id still wrench on a dub..

bbka
05-19-2007, 07:28 PM
Hey that's cool if that's what you want to do, it's your money your wasting. Just thought I would point out your preference is gay.:)

Eugenics
05-19-2007, 07:29 PM
Perhaps you dont understand preference.

Those cars would have to make everything up in the straightaway, which is fine, but i choose to drive with finesse rather than brute force.

Hondas already have a weight bias towards the front, i dont want to add to that problem.

As i have said before 250hp will be plenty for me. I dont have a ***** problem, i'm not out to go in a straight line any quicker. If that were the case, i would buy an F-body and call it a day.

I enjoy all motor setups quite a bit more, i like very high revving responsive engines.

I'm not confined to your budget, i dont have to take a piece of **** and bolt on a turbo so i can race people on the highway.

I will probably be using this motor in a MR2 or something later on down the road. Once again, wont need any extra weight.

I would LOVE for you to make a thread on honda-tech and explain your point of view and be just as brash and childish as you are here. But i highly doubt you would ever have the balls to do that. You know you're a troll, a throw away, a child, a worthless piece of ****. Why do you need us to tell you?

Incase you are foolish enough to think anyone shares your point of view, please... please make a thread. You shameless *****.


Were talking about hondas here buddy, specifically k-series and h-series, and yes they are very expensive. I have also drove and been in a cars with ITB's, they are loud and slow, what's your point? I have also been in plenty of cars with turbo setups, you can't really beat a properly built turbo setup. Personally I don't like fast spool, but in this case for a road course car, a fast spooling gt28rs on a 1.8L motor will own.

I would like to give you a moment to look at your sig and reflect.

Eugenics
05-19-2007, 07:30 PM
Hey that's cool if that's what you want to do, it's your money your wasting. Just thought I would point out your preference is gay.:)

Not entirely, i've experimented with girls too.

bbka
05-19-2007, 07:35 PM
I don't believe you have experimented with girls... chics with diks don't count. ;)

A k-series setup in a light vx/cx hatch would actually be fun to build, then when I think about how much it would cost to build right, I realize it's just a honda and say F that's a waste lol.

Fast1one
05-20-2007, 11:58 AM
Slow ITBs? Buahahaha....either your lying out of your *** that you've sat in one (more than likely), Or the install was ******...Yes they are loud, so what thats a freakin plus. They sound bad *** :fyi: Of course they are slower than a turbocharged car, NO ****. We were NEVER IMPLYING that they were faster, some of us have PREFERENCES and would rather drive an N/A car. Do you finally get it? Its not always about whats faster...you just can't get that through your skull...

Thanks for playing, I'm done with you. You ignorance is just too much to take at this point...

negativezeroz
05-20-2007, 12:01 PM
I <3 my K20Z3

negativezeroz
05-20-2007, 12:07 PM
Lol you couldn't be more wrong. The fact is and the point I am trying to make is a stock GSR with a gt28rs turbo setup will be MUCH cheaper (thousands), make a ton more power and TORQUE, and it will OWN your gay all motor h22 or k-series setup on a road course easily.

Here are some example dynos sheets. The turbo setup powerband owns the all motor setup from 3500 rpms to redline. Look at both torques curves, is it really worth it to go all motor for a tiny bit more torque below 3500 rpms? Your rpms won't ever get that low when your road racing, so that extra tiny bit of power isn't even usable.

Built K24/K20 all motor setup (will cost a shitload of money to swap and build)
http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=3925

Stock GSR w/gt28rs turbo kit (will cost less than just the k-series swap alone)
http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=3615

So I just don't see why you would want to waste money on an all motor setup. Oh and I don't want to hear bs about a turbo not being good for road racing, if your car is tuned properly you will be perfectly fine. Whatever though it's your money. Go ahead and ignore me, ill be laughing when some random guy with a stock b-series motor and turbo setup that didn't spend close to what you did, does circles around your expensive all motor setup at the track lol.

If that B18C1 was NA, the K would rape. A K20Z3 stock motor with AJP Stage 3 kit, running 15psi pushes over 430whp. So don't even try to compare turbo to NA.

Skip01
05-20-2007, 02:08 PM
If that B18C1 was NA, the K would rape. A K20Z3 stock motor with AJP Stage 3 kit, running 15psi pushes over 430whp. So don't even try to compare turbo to NA.

He was comparing the responses of the diff type of power...which doesnt really work out...the all motor makes 30tq more at 2000 rpm....where it all matters.

True a GT28RS would prolly be closest to the responsiveness of a good allmotor car but it wont equal it ever.


He wants allmotor no point in trying to change his opinion when ur own car is turboed...bias.

And i dont see it costing more.

When you take into account of a properly built turbo engine and same for a allmotor...its about the same....no matter if you spend your money on a $800 manifold/turbo...or $800 cams/pistons

With Turbo you can take alooooooot a short cuts to save you but youll be paying for that in maintence down the road so its all equal.

Fast1one
05-20-2007, 02:25 PM
He was comparing the responses of the diff type of power...which doesnt really work out...the all motor makes 30tq more at 2000 rpm....where it all matters.

True a GT28RS would prolly be closest to the responsiveness of a good allmotor car but it wont equal it ever.


He wants allmotor no point in trying to change his opinion when ur own car is turboed...bias.

And i dont see it costing more.

When you take into account of a properly built turbo engine and same for a allmotor...its about the same....no matter if you spend your money on a $800 manifold/turbo...or $800 cams/pistons

With Turbo you can take alooooooot a short cuts to save you but youll be paying for that in maintence down the road so its all equal.Well said...not to mention the simple law: Complexity=higher probability of something failing. Turbocharged cars have more stuff that can break on them, its simple fact.

bbka
05-20-2007, 02:32 PM
Slow ITBs? Buahahaha....either your lying out of your *** that you've sat in one (more than likely), Or the install was ******...Yes they are loud, so what thats a freakin plus. They sound bad *** :fyi: Of course they are slower than a turbocharged car, NO ****. We were NEVER IMPLYING that they were faster, some of us have PREFERENCES and would rather drive an N/A car. Do you finally get it? Its not always about whats faster...you just can't get that through your skull...

Thanks for playing, I'm done with you. You ignorance is just too much to take at this point...

Why would I lie about driving a car with ITB's lol? Dude I get it, you prefer slow expensive all motor cars, it's cool. You just waste your time with that, then when you want to step up to a real setup and go turbo, you will know what I am talking about. What do you mean it's not always about what is faster? That's the whole point of why anybody builds their motor (all motor, turbo, etc...) to make it faster lol.

Yeah I'm ignorant, that's it lol. I actually just bought a motor the other day that I will be building an all motor setup for. I thought about building homemade ITB's for it eventually, but that's more money and work for not a lot of power, so I decided against that. This is just a daily driver and it's basically a normal rebuild with higher comp OEM pistons and a cam. I'm doing as much of it myself as I can and cheap, less than $1,000 into the whole project including the motor/tranny is my goal. I'm not wasting that much money on this beater haha.

negativezeroz
05-20-2007, 02:33 PM
He was comparing the responses of the diff type of power...which doesnt really work out...the all motor makes 30tq more at 2000 rpm....where it all matters.

True a GT28RS would prolly be closest to the responsiveness of a good allmotor car but it wont equal it ever.


He wants allmotor no point in trying to change his opinion when ur own car is turboed...bias.

And i dont see it costing more.

When you take into account of a properly built turbo engine and same for a allmotor...its about the same....no matter if you spend your money on a $800 manifold/turbo...or $800 cams/pistons

With Turbo you can take alooooooot a short cuts to save you but youll be paying for that in maintence down the road so its all equal.

I am not turbo'd :p: when I got F/I, I will be going with a S/C (RedShift possibly).

I was just stating the fact that he is taking a quick spooling, power adding turbo ontop of a stock motor. Me, I'd rather have a nice built NA then add a S/C ontop of the built motor. Sure, more $$ but will handle the F/I a lottttttt better. :cool:

bbka
05-20-2007, 03:03 PM
"Skip01" That 30ft/lbs at 2k doesn't mean anything lol, that's power that will never be used. Oh and I'm sure you noticed how fast that power tappered up, let's not forget that. I'm not trying to change his mind, just poiting out his setup will be gay and slow. I don't like the guy, plain and simple. I am a litlte bias, but I did just buy a motor the other day, I will be going all motor with that setup. The only difference is I am doing it cheap, not wasting thousads like Eugenics.

Don't even try to tell me the cost will eventually be the same. If were talking about building just the motors? Yes that part is the same (pistons, rods, sleeves, etc... all the same) but that's not what I am talking about. There will be no need to build the motor with the turbo setup, it will be fine stock. A good all motor setup? You going to be spending a few thousand on just headwork easily, which will be about how much a decent turbo setup will cost lol.

That extra maintenance down the road doesn't really apply. If things break, that means you did something wrong when building the motor, it wasn't tuned properly, or you pushed a part past their breaking point. Build the turbo setup and motor right then tune it properly, you won't have any problems. I have seen tons of people blow all motor setups, yet my turbo setup and motor has lasted years...

Like I said, I just don't like Eugenics. ;) I am getting tired of this thread though, I think I will just find another post to rip on him in.

Fast1one
05-20-2007, 03:23 PM
He still going at it? I have him on ignore what did he say? :laugh:

Acidburn
05-20-2007, 06:29 PM
geo metro + mid-mounted SBC = something, maybe FTW, maybe FTL, i'unno

who ate my cookies?

Eugenics
05-20-2007, 06:33 PM
"Skip01" That 30ft/lbs at 2k doesn't mean anything lol, that's power that will never be used. Oh and I'm sure you noticed how fast that power tappered up, let's not forget that. I'm not trying to change his mind, just poiting out his setup will be gay and slow. I don't like the guy, plain and simple. I am a litlte bias, but I did just buy a motor the other day, I will be going all motor with that setup. The only difference is I am doing it cheap, not wasting thousads like Eugenics.

Don't even try to tell me the cost will eventually be the same. If were talking about building just the motors? Yes that part is the same (pistons, rods, sleeves, etc... all the same) but that's not what I am talking about. There will be no need to build the motor with the turbo setup, it will be fine stock. A good all motor setup? You going to be spending a few thousand on just headwork easily, which will be about how much a decent turbo setup will cost lol.

That extra maintenance down the road doesn't really apply. If things break, that means you did something wrong when building the motor, it wasn't tuned properly, or you pushed a part past their breaking point. Build the turbo setup and motor right then tune it properly, you won't have any problems. I have seen tons of people blow all motor setups, yet my turbo setup and motor has lasted years...

Like I said, I just don't like Eugenics. ;) I am getting tired of this thread though, I think I will just find another post to rip on him in.

someones got a little ***** envy. And who's to say i can't lower the compression ratio and turbo the motor later on down the road?

you rock a d block, dont talk to me about a waste.

bbka
05-20-2007, 06:49 PM
you rock a d block, dont talk to me about a waste.

Bahaha the D16 came in the car, so it was free. I only spent about $1100 on the whole turbo kit. I more than doubled the horsepower at the wheels and ran mid 12's on the stock motor. Oh and it's still running great years later, good try though lol...

Fast1one
05-20-2007, 07:09 PM
someones got a little ***** envy. And who's to say i can't lower the compression ratio and turbo the motor later on down the road?

you rock a d block, dont talk to me about a waste.Lol...

Hey one thing you want to consider whether turbo or otherwise is the greddy e-manage ultimate. Im planning on getting one in a couple years...a bargain at well under 1000 for the whole setup...two stage rev limiter is teh ***!

bbka
05-20-2007, 07:55 PM
Lol...

Hey one thing you want to consider whether turbo or otherwise is the greddy e-manage ultimate. Im planning on getting one in a couple years...a bargain at well under 1000 for the whole setup...two stage rev limiter is teh ***!

I'm guessing your obd2 if you thinking about emange? It's just a piggyback dude, so compared to the options out there, it's not that great. A better and much cheaper option would be converting to obd1 and running a chipped ecu with Crome. For those of you that don't know what Crome is, it's basically free Hondata. Crome Pro is like $150, so still not nearly as much as Hondata. Unless your running a full stand alone, chipping your ECU is the way to go.

Fast1one
05-20-2007, 08:41 PM
I'm guessing your obd2 if you thinking about emange? It's just a piggyback dude, so compared to the options out there, it's not that great. A better and much cheaper option would be converting to obd1 and running a chipped ecu with Crome. For those of you that don't know what Crome is, it's basically free Hondata. Crome Pro is like $150, so still not nearly as much as Hondata. Unless your running a full stand alone, chipping your ECU is the way to go.I'll take you off ignore for now, as this is getting entertaining...

I am aware that it is a piggyback ECU, a good one at that. Some of us would rather keep our cars smog legal (cali is a *****) and converting to OBD1 would be a retarded move. You have to understand the drivablility aspect of every option your putting forward. Your not considering that most of us drive our car's on the street, and crooked smog shops here in Cali are becoming more and more rare. And no I am not moving out of Cali, brace yourself though because a lot of the CARB laws enforced currently here are making there way to other states.

Even so, the e-manage has has a lot more features than a reprogrammed ECU will ever have.

Yes I do enjoy my slow N/A power, its so ****...O and BTW, N/A power Maxima FTW. Currently the record is 12.4 in the quarter for an auto FAMILY SEDAN :naughty:

Skip01
05-20-2007, 08:46 PM
"Skip01" That 30ft/lbs at 2k doesn't mean anything lol, that's power that will never be used. Oh and I'm sure you noticed how fast that power tappered up, let's not forget that. I'm not trying to change his mind, just poiting out his setup will be gay and slow. I don't like the guy, plain and simple. I am a litlte bias, but I did just buy a motor the other day, I will be going all motor with that setup. The only difference is I am doing it cheap, not wasting thousads like Eugenics.

Don't even try to tell me the cost will eventually be the same. If were talking about building just the motors? Yes that part is the same (pistons, rods, sleeves, etc... all the same) but that's not what I am talking about. There will be no need to build the motor with the turbo setup, it will be fine stock. A good all motor setup? You going to be spending a few thousand on just headwork easily, which will be about how much a decent turbo setup will cost lol.

That extra maintenance down the road doesn't really apply. If things break, that means you did something wrong when building the motor, it wasn't tuned properly, or you pushed a part past their breaking point. Build the turbo setup and motor right then tune it properly, you won't have any problems. I have seen tons of people blow all motor setups, yet my turbo setup and motor has lasted years...

Like I said, I just don't like Eugenics. ;) I am getting tired of this thread though, I think I will just find another post to rip on him in.

How does any amount torque never matter in a 4cyl....we need all we can get.

Like you said...your doin it cheap.....and i said if both motors were built.

Theres no need to build a turbo motor?.....ask anyone who has had a turbo motor longer than a year if they could go back and change anything and youll see the horrible truth.
Things break when a motor has any added stress put to it.....regardless of if you did it right or not....that said,if you do it right itll last longer but not forever

Both allmotor and turbo have a cheap route of goin at it.
You can get LS/Vtec setup to over 200hp for id say around 3k built nicely
Same said you can get a LS motor and boost the **** outt it and make a lot of power for a lil while for not that expensive.

Its all in where you look and where you buy.... cant compare a allmotor setup to your homemadeturbo.com pieced together kit....never gonna equal a normal buyers spending

I dont know where your spending thousands of dollars on "headwork"....but a port and polish at any machine shop around here is a few hunderd bucks last time i asked.

But ill stop talking now this is getting nowhere very fast...unlike a d16 with 12psi hehe:)

Loud3
05-20-2007, 10:22 PM
Farva loses. By default.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k61/Loud3/IMG_1824.jpg

DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT!

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k61/Loud3/Niceandcleanunderthehood.jpg

Not bad, but I like the K swap, given the choice.

Loud3
05-20-2007, 10:29 PM
http://www.hondasociety.com/board/showthread.php?t=123869

Eugenics
05-20-2007, 10:49 PM
Farva loses. By default.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k61/Loud3/IMG_1824.jpg

DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT!

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k61/Loud3/Niceandcleanunderthehood.jpg

Not bad, but I like the K swap, given the choice.

i was looking at that rsx earlier. i'm definitely going the ITB route. Going to try to do a K too, depends on if i run into any good finds. Not crazy about spending 3-5k on a block though.

i shall check that forum out, thankyou.

how is your car doing?

SAG3
05-20-2007, 11:36 PM
Hey that's cool if that's what you want to do, it's your money your wasting. Just thought I would point out your preference is gay.:)

Immature much?

Fast1one
05-21-2007, 01:05 AM
That is one **** RSX....

bbka
05-21-2007, 03:25 AM
I'll take you off ignore for now, as this is getting entertaining...

I am aware that it is a piggyback ECU, a good one at that. Some of us would rather keep our cars smog legal (cali is a *****) and converting to OBD1 would be a retarded move. You have to understand the drivablility aspect of every option your putting forward. Your not considering that most of us drive our car's on the street, and crooked smog shops here in Cali are becoming more and more rare. And no I am not moving out of Cali, brace yourself though because a lot of the CARB laws enforced currently here are making there way to other states.

Even so, the e-manage has has a lot more features than a reprogrammed ECU will ever have.

No need to explain lol. Like I said keeping it obd2 (smog reasons) would be the only reason to ever go with eManage, so if that's your only option then cool. Oh and just because emanage has "cool" features doesn't mean anything lol. Crome Pro has everything you will ever need to tune a car.

Stand alone and chipped ecu > emanage and every other piggyback

Eugenics
05-21-2007, 08:28 AM
s300

Loud3
05-21-2007, 09:43 AM
Farva.

Where's my coffee?!?!?

And I have an '07 Mazda 3 now. It's not slow... but not quick. Nothing done to it besides a Buddy Club condenser, and a sharkfin antenna... Gotta make it look like a bimmer, ya dig?!?!?


And yes, that RSX is a prime example of love at first sight.

bbka
05-21-2007, 12:17 PM
s300

Hondata is good engine management, but it's a waste of money when Crome does everything you need.

bigbangtheory
05-22-2007, 02:05 AM
Farva.

Where's my coffee?!?!?

And I have an '07 Mazda 3 now. It's not slow... but not quick. Nothing done to it besides a Buddy Club condenser, and a sharkfin antenna... Gotta make it look like a bimmer, ya dig?!?!?


And yes, that RSX is a prime example of love at first sight.

2.3 duratec?

Have that in my Focus ST and runs 15.1 stock, not to bad. Running 14.1 with some mild mods done to it. I want to put a turbo on it and could be in the high 12's, but I like the car to last awhile.

Loud3
05-22-2007, 09:22 AM
I do have the 2.3l, however, there are some differences between the duratec and mine... not everything is interchangeable, unfortunantly.

bigbangtheory
05-23-2007, 07:59 PM
I do have the 2.3l, however, there are some differences between the duratec and mine... not everything is interchangeable, unfortunantly.

Ah, I see. Well then mine is better than yours. ;) I kidd, I kidd.

I can mod the **** out of mine fairly easily, but dont tend to go that route. Is fine for what it is where it sits.

azbass
05-23-2007, 08:03 PM
Farva loses. By default.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k61/Loud3/IMG_1824.jpg


.

oh. now this is pretty tight, i love these sets ups.

Eugenics
05-31-2007, 01:12 AM
rawr

Meka
06-01-2007, 02:07 PM
2.3 duratec?

Have that in my Focus ST and runs 15.1 stock, not to bad. Running 14.1 with some mild mods done to it. I want to put a turbo on it and could be in the high 12's, but I like the car to last awhile.

2001 Ford Focus ZX3 8.7 16.8
2002 Ford Focus SVT 7.8 16.1
2003 Ford Focus SVT 7.7 15.9
2003 Ford Focus ZTS 8.2 16.1
2004 Ford Focus SVT 7.4 15.6 (R&T Aug '04)
2004 Ford Focus Saleen N2O 5.8 14.0 (saleen.com)
2005 Ford Focus ZX4 (5spd) 7.9 16.1

15.1 stock eh? Thats pretty quick.