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View Full Version : thoughts on krell amps?



1loudsuv
05-02-2007, 07:56 PM
my dealer has a 3250 which i demoed earlier and wow :eek: im thinking of returning my amp and upgrading to it i have 10 days before the trade thing is up and plus it will fit in my tv stand :)

Max_Power
05-02-2007, 09:07 PM
is this the amp?

http://www.krellonline.com/krell_component.php?id=44&page=kav3250

thats only a 3 channel amp.

Krell stuff is top notch though. If you can get another two channels in there, awesome for home theater.

1loudsuv
05-02-2007, 09:44 PM
yah that one, i was thinking of just using the rear two channels of my receiver or 4 if i got 7.1 in teh future

joetama
05-03-2007, 01:22 AM
Krell isn't bad...

I personally never liked the Krell sound, especially with my system, but it might work really well with your def techs...

Beat_Dominator
05-03-2007, 02:55 PM
Krell is a very good brand. If you like the sound and can afford it, then go for it. With their build quality you'll have it for many many years.

envengineer
05-03-2007, 03:37 PM
Krell makes quality equipment. Sounds sterile to me though. A lot of people will tell you amps don't have a particular "sound", I am not one of those people. If you are getting a great deal, go for it. If not, I'd look at audiogon because I think you can get a lot better for the MSRP of that amp.

1loudsuv
05-03-2007, 05:10 PM
Krell makes quality equipment. Sounds sterile to me though. A lot of people will tell you amps don't have a particular "sound", I am not one of those people. If you are getting a great deal, go for it. If not, I'd look at audiogon because I think you can get a lot better for the MSRP of that amp.

well he said my amp plus 2 grand :crap: im almost sure i am going to get it but it is allot of money more then what i paid for my rotel.

btw i am one of those who know each amp has its own sound. at least it does in every car audio amp ive mesed with.

Beat_Dominator
05-03-2007, 05:12 PM
That's not a bad price.

thylantyr
05-03-2007, 08:01 PM
Proamps

:)

Beat_Dominator
05-03-2007, 08:26 PM
Hah.

joetama
05-03-2007, 10:30 PM
Krell makes quality equipment. Sounds sterile to me though. A lot of people will tell you amps don't have a particular "sound", I am not one of those people. If you are getting a great deal, go for it. If not, I'd look at audiogon because I think you can get a lot better for the MSRP of that amp.

Sterile is exactly what they sound like. I would get a used Naim or Classe before I would buy that.... :fyi:

1loudsuv
05-04-2007, 01:26 AM
Sterile is exactly what they sound like. I would get a used Naim or Classe before I would buy that.... :fyi:

well from what i heard in a comparision both the def tech's and the 703 b&w are a little on the bright side dunno if you will agree with me so if you think classe will sound better with b&ws then im guessing they should sound better with the def techs :confused:

to me the rotel did help sq in certain ways but mostly it just made my setup louder. and me i really dont want it to be louder i just want more of a warm sound. i heard mcintosh is the way to go for that but those amps are pricy.

thats why i was asking you if i should change my tweeters but like you said and many others its not worth it.

1loudsuv
05-04-2007, 01:38 AM
looking at mcintosh theirs nothing that i want that i can afford :( unless im missing something that is a 3 or 5 channel amp all i see is stereo and 7 channel amp

and classe looks good to but another amp that wont fit in my new stand. i wouldn't mind that to much since my amp right now isnt in the stand. im not even sure if the place where i bought my rotel carries classe and b&w by sterile what do you mean?

thylantyr
05-04-2007, 03:12 AM
If you want better SQ, I'd be replacing speakers before I'd searching for
the Holy Grail SQ amplifier. You have to reason this out logically. Speakers
are electro+mechanical where the mechanical nature represents a big sonic
gremlin. Amplifiers are just electrical, no mechanical gremlins. This is the secret
to audio success, but you can be like everyone else and keep buying amps
until you get old and gray searching for hidden magic in spite that amplifier
topology hasn't really changed much in 20 years.

joetama
05-04-2007, 09:59 AM
looking at mcintosh theirs nothing that i want that i can afford :( unless im missing something that is a 3 or 5 channel amp all i see is stereo and 7 channel amp

and classe looks good to but another amp that wont fit in my new stand. i wouldn't mind that to much since my amp right now isnt in the stand. im not even sure if the place where i bought my rotel carries classe and b&w by sterile what do you mean?

Flat with out excitement. Clean with out being revealing. Dynamic with out the WOW....

The 700 Series new out of the box is a bit bright, but it evolves into a revealing open sound which is a very acquired tastes.


If you want better SQ, I'd be replacing speakers before I'd searching for
the Holy Grail SQ amplifier. You have to reason this out logically. Speakers
are electro+mechanical where the mechanical nature represents a big sonic
gremlin. Amplifiers are just electrical, no mechanical gremlins. This is the secret
to audio success, but you can be like everyone else and keep buying amps
until you get old and gray searching for hidden magic in spite that amplifier
topology hasn't really changed much in 20 years.

Speakers are going to make a much bigger difference in the scope of things.

1loudsuv
05-04-2007, 02:56 PM
Speakers are going to make a much bigger difference in the scope of things.

yah but when i paid over 3 grand for mines and they retail for close 4k and i only have 2 k to spend i doubt i can find better sounding speakers for 2k

thylantyr
05-04-2007, 05:53 PM
to me the rotel did help sq in certain ways but mostly it just made my setup louder. and me i really dont want it to be louder i just want more of a warm sound.

If you tried a more powerful amp and it just made it louder, that implies the
comparison amps didn't add audible coloration to the signal path. If you
want a warm sound then you are looking for signal processing on the electronics
end, perhaps in the form of an EQ *or* you need speakers that give you that
sonic character. It's cheaper to make the sound 'warm' on the source side
by using an EQ than to buy expensive amplifiers. You need to mess with
the frequency response and gremlinize it.

You also said you don't want the system louder. Do you blame the sound system
for being too loud or do you blame the human controlling the volume knob?
.................. hehehehe ..................

i doubt i can find better sounding speakers for 2k
That's the problem. If you want to improve SQ, finding better speakers becomes
more problematic as the price soars beyond imagination. If you can't
afford $25k - $50k commercial speakers, they try to capture SQ by means of
electronics hoping to score big, but the big score is never really as big as it
could be.

That's why the DIY speaker crowd is large, people want the $50k sound
for $2.5k - $5k, DIY style. Then hooking up any reasonably good amp
will do the job well. Fit and finish can be sacrificed vs. pretty store speakers if the sound rules.

Even though I recommended QSC PLX amps in PM, realistically many
times 'system design' is more important than the individual pieces. For example,
I could design a custom sound system for someone using lower cost Crown XLS
amps as long as I know the customer was satisfied with the speaker choice.
I use PLX because I drive the system hard at very low impedances and I want
the amp to be capable of operating way below published spec.

BTW, I just saw new pics of XLS version D amps, looks improved over the
old design. It might actually drive a subwoofer now, rofl.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=842859

Most people get annoyed with proamp fans, the wind noise bugs them,
many do fan replacements for a reasonable fee. I didn't do any fan mods
to mine, it doesn't bug me.

I think a stack of proamps is more aggressive looking than a single Krell
or exotic amp.

http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/proamps/xti.jpg

1loudsuv
05-04-2007, 06:28 PM
^^^ where did he come from lol wow lots of good advice! thanks

oh yah and fans bug the ish out of me. any little noise that isnt part of the dvd/cd makes me go nuts, the fan i added are a tad noisy but im hoping in stepping down the voltage to 10 volts from 12 volts will help? if not any fan recommendations that are super quiet? (their to **** hot air out my tv stand)

Beat_Dominator
05-04-2007, 07:25 PM
Like I said before, if YOU liked the sound of the Krell, then go for it. You do not need to buy better speakers first, people would be amazed what can be done with a system where the front end is given the chance to get the most out of a set of speakers.

1loudsuv
05-04-2007, 07:58 PM
Like I said before, if YOU liked the sound of the Krell, then go for it. You do not need to buy better speakers first, people would be amazed what can be done with a system where the front end is given the chance to get the most out of a set of speakers.

yah im gonna go pick it up later :naughty: its cool having a big rack and stuff but im not trying to impress people by looks to much rather do it by the sound even though most people dont know what good sound is... but sound quality is subjective

joetama
05-04-2007, 10:51 PM
Like I said before, if YOU liked the sound of the Krell, then go for it. You do not need to buy better speakers first, people would be amazed what can be done with a system where the front end is given the chance to get the most out of a set of speakers.

Indeed. Processors/Receivers have a big affect on the sound of a system. Not as important as speakers but it plays a role.


yah im gonna go pick it up later :naughty: its cool having a big rack and stuff but im not trying to impress people by looks to much rather do it by the sound even though most people dont know what good sound is... but sound quality is subjective

The only person you have to impress is yourself... Sound Quality is subjective to a point, but it is made up of some basic elements that everyone can agree on...

urwhatueati8god
05-11-2007, 02:06 AM
You also might want to give some consideration to Primare amplifiers as well. They're not the greatest, but they almost definitely have a warmer sound than what your current Krell puts out. It probably won't impress on the Def. Techs though.

1loudsuv
05-11-2007, 03:49 AM
You also might want to give some consideration to Primare amplifiers as well. They're not the greatest, but they almost definitely have a warmer sound than what your current Krell puts out. It probably won't impress on the Def. Techs though.

i like the amp i have but the speakers i dunno. ive been thinking of dumping them.

but that wont be till the day i have money for some 800 series b&ws which wont be for a very long time....the krell ****** me dry i dont even have money to pay some bills this week :blackeye:

dam hobbys and them being so expensive and even worst its mother day weekend. time to ask the daddy for some money.

thylantyr
05-11-2007, 04:40 AM
Best kept secret in home/HT audio {not a secret in pro audio}.

http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/proamps/Crown_CE-4000-1.jpg
http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/proamps/Crown_CE-4000-2.jpg

A guy on AVS just score two of them for his monster HT subwoofer project,
those are his amp pics. He replaced the fan with a *quiet* fan, all is sweet.

Guess how much he paid on the used market? $660 each. What a deal.

Why is this amp so cool?

Universal SMPS + PFC + BCA

Universal = works with 120VAC or 220VAC input without doing any mods.
{if 220VAC used, the amp will do a real 3600 watts}.

SMPS = switch mode power supply akin to car amps which use SMPS. More
efficient power supply, lighter weight - no need for huge transformers.

BCA = akin to full range class D, very efficient design. Crown K series and Crown
Itech is also BCA output stage.

PFC = Power Factor Correction, in a nutshell, you will get rated power even
if your lame house voltage sags under load which causes non-PFC amps to
output much less power than advertised. PFC is akin to a regulated power supply.

The Challenge

Find me a home audio amp that is SMPS, PFC, and BCA {or equivalent},
~3,600 watts of real power for under $700.

/// evil ///

FYI, you probably heard of Crown K1 and K2 amps.

Guts here;
http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/proamps/Crown_K2.jpg

People loved these amps and they paid $1000 for them, maybe $500 today
on the used market.

K series is only BCA, not SMPS, not PFC and if you look at the guts, it has
no real heatsinks inside. The stupid chassis is the heatsink. The CE4000
has real heatsinks and a wind tunnel design.

CE1000 or CE2000 are not the same recipes as CE4000. Those are generic designs.
The CE4000 was a test bed for what is known today as Crown Itech. They made
this amp and disguised it under the CE name to test it in the field. It's discontinued
now and Itech's emerged. They added DSP to the recipe and now you pay huge
premiums to get that SMPS + PFC + BCA AND DSP all in one amp chassis
under the Itech models.

joetama
05-11-2007, 09:01 AM
Have you heard of a budget?

I could have blown my whole college fund on some 802D and Classe, but i didn't. ;)

envengineer
05-11-2007, 09:58 AM
Best kept secret in home/HT audio {not a secret in pro audio}.

http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/proamps/Crown_CE-4000-1.jpg
http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/proamps/Crown_CE-4000-2.jpg

A guy on AVS just score two of them for his monster HT subwoofer project,
those are his amp pics. He replaced the fan with a *quiet* fan, all is sweet.

Guess how much he paid on the used market? $660 each. What a deal.



I've seen similar setups using similar amps where the amps are just mounted in a different room than the listener. This is especially effective in big IB setups because you can mount the amp with the subwoofers and have them relatively isolated from the listener. It's not a big step to do the same thing with the other amps as well.

With the ability to use IR cables/RF/etc you can keep most of the system out of sight where it doesn't take up living space, doesn't get damaged and you can keep all of your wiring accessible if you rack mount everything. The only thing that needs to be in the listening area is the CD transport so you can swap discs.

To me, there is a lot to be said for glorious sound with minimalist presentation. Just a pair of towers visible to the listener.

ballstothewall
05-11-2007, 10:38 AM
The Challenge

Find me a home audio amp that is SMPS, PFC, and BCA {or equivalent},
~3,600 watts of real power for under $700.


I got 3kw for under 400.

thylantyr
05-11-2007, 12:27 PM
I got 3kw for under 400.

Which amp did you get that is -> SMPS, PFC, and BCA {or equivalent} ?

:)


... stolen amps don't count :)


Have you heard of a budget?

I could have blown my whole college fund on some 802D and Classe, but i didn't.

Isn't $660 less than a $3K Krell amp? :fro:

joetama
05-11-2007, 12:34 PM
I was talking to 1loudsuv there... Not you thy... ;)

thylantyr
05-11-2007, 05:19 PM
dam hobbys and them being so expensive

Learn to DIY in spite that it does take some time to develop basic
skills. You need to invest in some tools, you need a garage, practice.
If you can't right now, save the mullah until you are ready to execute order 66.
Go fully active and trim a few light years off your journey and bypass the Borg.

Get some headphones to hold you over :)

ballstothewall
05-11-2007, 07:54 PM
Which amp did you get that is -> SMPS, PFC, and BCA {or equivalent} ?

:)


... stolen amps don't count :)



Isn't $660 less than a $3K Krell amp? :fro:


QSC CX902.... No, it ain't stole. No, I'm not saying where I got it from either.

thylantyr
05-12-2007, 02:41 PM
I like QSC amps and I'm starting to dislike Crown more as time passes.

CX902

SMPS = yes
PFC = no
BCA = no
3kw {using rms test method} = no [expect ~1.5kw]

:)

The CE4000 remains champ unless dethroned :groovy: :viking2: :goldcup:

joetama
05-12-2007, 05:29 PM
I dont' care what technology the crown has in it...

QSC is still > Clown

thylantyr
05-12-2007, 07:31 PM
I dont' care what technology the crown has in it...

QSC is still > Clown

QSC has their own issues, no vendor is perfect. lol

I don't know of any QSC amp, new or used that can beat
that CE4000 amp given that the market price on those have
dropped alot. People were paying $1500 each a couple+ years
ago, now you can score them for $600 - $800. I don't know of
any QSC in this price range that can touch that amp.

:clap: :evil: :toast:

1loudsuv
05-12-2007, 07:48 PM
everyone should just shut up already
bose>all

joetama
05-12-2007, 11:23 PM
QSC has their own issues, no vendor is perfect. lol

I don't know of any QSC amp, new or used that can beat
that CE4000 amp given that the market price on those have
dropped alot. People were paying $1500 each a couple+ years
ago, now you can score them for $600 - $800. I don't know of
any QSC in this price range that can touch that amp.

:clap: :evil: :toast:

True, but I would pay the extra for the QSC... ;) Or maybe a Lab.Gruppen...

hatemonger
05-12-2007, 11:26 PM
everyone should just shut up already
bose>all

:laugh: :greedy:

thylantyr
05-13-2007, 01:04 AM
everyone should just shut up already


I don't make a sound when I type.. hee hee harr harr :suicide: :)

Pl8er
05-13-2007, 01:11 AM
True, but I would pay the extra for the QSC... ;) Or maybe a Lab.Gruppen...

X2.5 ;)

I'm running 2 QSC amps for my HT and I LOVE them. Only thing I didn't like was how noisy the fans were, so I turned them off.

joetama
05-13-2007, 02:32 AM
I don't make a sound when I type.. hee hee harr harr :suicide: :)

Mr. Smarty Pants...

thylantyr
05-13-2007, 03:33 PM
2-Monkey > Krell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBaoxnZH1Ug&mode=related&search=

joetama
05-14-2007, 02:09 AM
NICe....

thylantyr
05-14-2007, 01:21 PM
Need to mod that Monkey vid with Ron Jeremy's voice. hehe hehe

joetama
05-14-2007, 01:46 PM
That monkey needs a big ol' pot belly too... :laugh: