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View Full Version : Considering DIY front stage, but open to 2-ways as well



kendogg
04-23-2007, 11:48 PM
OK, long story. I've had a post up on www.caraudioforum.com for a few days now, and am looking for some more opinions, as this place seems to have ALOT of knowledge about components.

First off - I'm not going active, I don't have the money to go active, and have no problem cutting/modifying my car to fit the desired setup. I can build whatever, as long as in the end, the sonic results will be pleasing. FYI - I listen to my music EXTREMELY loud, at all times. I run at full tilt 75% of the time I'm in the vehicle (not 60/60 volume I'm no nub, lol). So, if making any recommendations, please keep this in mind, as I will be running everything probably to their max.

If I go DIY, this is the tweeter I want to use:

http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=1738599.16448&pid=2135

However - I can't decide on a mid, and I can't get enough corresponding info to choose a proper mid, as I'm getting more and more confused by the day. I've considered running a dual-mid setup, such as dual 5" mids, to give the desired amount of midbass, yet retain composer in the upper end before the xover point. I was looking at a couple of mids on Parts Express, and a couple of the Daytons looked nice,ad so did a 5" mid from Hi-Vi, but alot of people are saying that it won't work. I'm not really sure why, do I haven't been able to form a real opinion about them so far.

I've been looking at the Alpine Type X, and it seems they have a nice tweeter, fantastic xover, but only a decent mid. I work for a Rainbow/Alpine dealer, so I can get pretty much anything at cost, authorized. Unfortunately, I never get to hear anything good, in a loud vehicle,s o I have nothing to base any of my decisions on.

As for what I've had in the past - not very much. I had Diamond Audio M5 series components, and they were absolutely terrible. No midbass whatsoever, and the tweeter would make my ears bleed. I installed a set of CDT CWM-6's in a car, I liked the midbass, but they seemed a bit brite to me. I've been told that very may well have been the tweeter positioning though. And I installed a set of JL XR's in an Acura Integra, and these are my favorite set that I've heard to date.

Also - these will be off-axis, in the doors. I can't run kicks. Doors will be very heavily deadened, and the tweeter will be put wherever it will sound best. I'd like to get something with a chambered tweeter if at all possible, especially if I DIY.

As for power, currently, they will be ran from a Profile 2 channel, 100x2 rms at 4 ohms. When I ca afford to upgrade my sub amp, my Cadence Z9000 (300x2 rms at 4 ohms) will be swapped in for front stage duty.

I see the Rainbow SLC 265's on here quite often, bu that set doesn't include the tweeter that I would want if I bought a Rainbow set, I would want the CAL 25 tweeter that comes with the Germaniums. Does anybody have any reviews/info on these, compared to say, the JL XR's, or the new Kicker SS's?

I'll post more questions/info later, I think this is enough for now, lol. Thanks guys.

6spdcoupe
04-23-2007, 11:58 PM
Wait for the newer version SLCs that include the CAL25s. :)

kendogg
04-24-2007, 12:02 AM
Wait for the newer version SLCs that include the CAL25s. :)

Info please???????

YGPM

6spdcoupe
04-24-2007, 12:04 AM
Shhh its secret. :)

kendogg
04-24-2007, 10:26 AM
Shhh its secret. :)

Lmao. Anywho......

Anybody else have any input BESIDES the Rainbow rep :D

Twistid
04-24-2007, 10:34 AM
i got dayton 7" mids, only $30 a piece , pretty beefy, look clean as ****,

i have yet to hear them, but everyone elses opinions of them (that actually own or heard them) are nothing but great, extremly loud, strong midbass, very clear

kendogg
04-24-2007, 01:30 PM
i got dayton 7" mids, only $30 a piece , pretty beefy, look clean as ****,

i have yet to hear them, but everyone elses opinions of them (that actually own or heard them) are nothing but great, extremly loud, strong midbass, very clear


Which Dayton mids, the RS225's? My only issue with them is that from what I keep getting told, they need to be crossed over very, very low.

nismos14
04-24-2007, 07:01 PM
Dayton's are alright I have the 7's in my door but am looking to move them soon. I would suggest going the SLC route. Those are going to be ridiculous when the CAL25 is incorporated into the mix.

6spdcoupe
04-24-2007, 07:07 PM
Absolutely -biampable/cal 25s/cosmetically more appealing and about the same price? Who could ask for more? :D

slick rick
04-24-2007, 07:09 PM
Absolutely -biampable/cal 25s/cosmetically more appealing and about the same price? Who could ask for more? :D

are my germs becoming outdated with the new SLC's? :( I love em...

6spdcoupe
04-24-2007, 07:15 PM
are my germs becoming outdated with the new SLC's? :( I love em...

Nah your ok still. :)

robob2
04-24-2007, 08:22 PM
Wait for the newer version SLCs that include the CAL25s. :)


Did you get my PM? When will the new SLC be available?

nismos14
04-24-2007, 08:35 PM
Nah your ok still. :)

I may have to venture back into the SLC line for the mids :) Or maybe those very perdy yellow cones sitting in your garage........... HMMMMMMM

Or the other paper cones sittin in there.... hmmmm :suicide:

korndawg
04-25-2007, 02:33 AM
Is the CMX line getting upgraded? And when do these new updated versions come out? I still havent bought my new components (**** bills!) so I'm still in the market!

kendogg
04-25-2007, 02:50 PM
Well, I'm considering buying the cheap $80 Cadences to tide me over until the new SLC's are ready to ship, but does anybody else have any other suggestions? I'm really open to some different idea's, I'm just not 100% sure what I'm looking at.

nismos14
04-25-2007, 02:58 PM
Keep your oem ish in

kendogg
04-25-2007, 03:25 PM
Keep your oem ish in

Absolutely not, lol. I'm not sure the car even has speakers. I mean, if I can spend $100-ish now for something to tide me over, I can hawk them off on the forums, and not lose THAT much. Or, if somebody else has better suggestions than the SLC's (not just better value, better product) then I'm all ears.

tigerf117
04-25-2007, 05:27 PM
Im a huge fan of Dual and Scosche, top of the line pieces of hardware there, I'll tell you what.

Oh you're a BMW expert as well? I own a BMW Camaro, its ****in sweet.

kendogg
04-25-2007, 11:11 PM
Im a huge fan of Dual and Scosche, top of the line pieces of hardware there, I'll tell you what.

Oh you're a BMW expert as well? I own a BMW Camaro, its ****in sweet.

Umm. GTFO of my thread azzhole. Thanks.

BlackMaxima
04-25-2007, 11:14 PM
Wait for the newer version SLCs that include the CAL25s. :)


if the SLCs are going to have the cal25
that means the germs are going to have the cal 27 right??:naughty:

im really hoping the price for the germ are going to be the same.

BlackMaxima
04-25-2007, 11:16 PM
Absolutely -biampable/cal 25s/cosmetically more appealing and about the same price? Who could ask for more? :D

Don, what are the chances you giving discount for multiple order??:naughty: :naughty:

FSUnoles
04-25-2007, 11:28 PM
why no go with the cvl-6k's?

kendogg
04-25-2007, 11:29 PM
why no go with the cvl-6k's?

And those are what exactly? I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with that model number.

FSUnoles
04-25-2007, 11:45 PM
http://www.cadencestore.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=89&idproduct=235

nismos14
04-25-2007, 11:48 PM
if the SLCs are going to have the cal25
that means the germs are going to have the cal 27 right??:naughty:

im really hoping the price for the germ are going to be the same.

Most likely not, the Germs may stick with the CAL25 VOF or Titanium, doubt they would go to the 26 before the 27 for the germs, and if they did I would expect a price increase.

6spdcoupe
04-25-2007, 11:53 PM
if the SLCs are going to have the cal25
that means the germs are going to have the cal 27 right??:naughty:

im really hoping the price for the germ are going to be the same.

:eyebrow: nah that wont happen. :( Would be nice though huh?

Actually Germs and All metal driver sets have went up. :crap:

6spdcoupe
04-25-2007, 11:53 PM
Don, what are the chances you giving discount for multiple order??:naughty: :naughty:

Depends what ya had in mind fellow Orger. :)

kendogg
04-26-2007, 12:07 AM
:eyebrow: nah that wont happen. :( Would be nice though huh?

Actually Germs and All metal driver sets have went up. :crap:

Whats retail on the Germ's anyways? I haven't even tried looking up my cost on them, I'm not sure if I can even afford them at cost, LMFAO

BlackMaxima
04-26-2007, 01:21 AM
Depends what ya had in mind fellow Orger. :)

Germs
+
XXk1500v1
+
XXk 2500

slick rick
04-26-2007, 01:28 AM
Germs
+
XXk1500v1
+
XXk 2500

"Do it, do it."

3.5Max6spd
04-26-2007, 08:12 AM
if the SLCs are going to have the cal25
that means the germs are going to have the cal 27 right??:naughty:



The cal25VOF on the Germs is a chambered/acoustic volume version- much lower resonant frequency and smoother freq response than the generic Cal25 the new SLC line will get. For instance the Germ tweeter can be set to 2200hz 24db/2600 hz 12db on the passive and they laugh at it as you pile on volume. The reg version of the Cal25 likely wont be used for anything other than 3k-3.5khz 12db.

The SLC line is def getting improved upon so that their silk version is on par with their metal version (CMX) in terms of hardware. But The Germs are still rather new, were designed from the ground up and the line has been succesfull- if it aint broke, dont fix it.They are worth every penny, and anyone who has bought a set can attest to that: It is an entry level competition set, at the right price:fro:

nismos14
04-26-2007, 08:29 AM
xxk1500v1?

Whats that?

New?

I think the XXK's are gone anyways, may wanna look at the new Kar series amps when they come out.

kendogg
04-26-2007, 11:27 AM
The cal25VOF on the Germs is a chambered/acoustic volume version- much lower resonant frequency and smoother freq response than the generic Cal25 the new SLC line will get. For instance the Germ tweeter can be set to 2200hz 24db/2600 hz 12db on the passive and they laugh at it as you pile on volume. The reg version of the Cal25 likely wont be used for anything other than 3k-3.5khz 12db.

The SLC line is def getting improved upon so that their silk version is on par with their metal version (CMX) in terms of hardware. But The Germs are still rather new, were designed from the ground up and the line has been succesfull- if it aint broke, dont fix it.They are worth every penny, and anyone who has bought a set can attest to that: It is an entry level competition set, at the right price:fro:

This is news to me, thanks for saying this. So, do you think that I might be better off ordering the Cal25VOF tweeters w/appropriate crossovers, and the SLC mids separately?

slick rick
04-26-2007, 11:36 AM
This is news to me, thanks for saying this. So, do you think that I might be better off ordering the Cal25VOF tweeters w/appropriate crossovers, and the SLC mids separately?

or just get germs. :)

kendogg
04-26-2007, 11:54 AM
or just get germs. :)


It depends on cost, I haven't actually priced any of them yet. I figured I would be nice to my boss and actually have some idea of what I want before I ask him to email Rainbow and get my pricing :)

kendogg
04-26-2007, 02:14 PM
OTOH - does anybody know how those SEAS tweeters I linked compare to either the Cal25's, or the Cal25VOF?? Do you think it's any kind of noticeable difference either way?

alphakenny1
04-26-2007, 02:20 PM
i have not heard the cal25s but used the seas neos aluminum for a bit. they are quite nice for the price. the alum version does not sound harsh at all. its buttery smooth imo. the off axis is very nice and it can be crossed pretty low, 2khz or so. but to me, if you aren't going active, there really isn't a real point in buying diy speakers. i'd just get component set.

Flipx99
04-26-2007, 02:21 PM
cal27 + profi

kendogg
04-26-2007, 03:00 PM
cal27 + profi

Thats too far beyond my budget. I'm not sure I can even afford Germaniums at cost.:wow:

Flipx99
04-26-2007, 03:05 PM
Slow and steady my friend....

Which is more expensive?

Upgrading from a clap-trap Alpine set....to the SLC 3way set....to Cal 27 + profi.

It is cheaper to just save and buy the best you ever wanted rather than upgrade and sell.

Not saying what I have is the best. But I am perfectly content with it.

kendogg
04-26-2007, 03:11 PM
Slow and steady my friend....

Which is more expensive?

Upgrading from a clap-trap Alpine set....to the SLC 3way set....to Cal 27 + profi.

It is cheaper to just save and buy the best you ever wanted rather than upgrade and sell.

Not saying what I have is the best. But I am perfectly content with it.

I don't mind buying something pretty good now, using it, enjoying it, then selling it and buying new equipment. As funds allow, I REALLY enjoy buying new equipment :)

I just don't really know where I'm at right now, but a $600+ component set is far out of my budget. I'd really like to be around $200 more or less, thats why I'm considering the SLC's, and possibly the germs, depending on what they actually cost. I can't even find a retail price for the Germ's anywhere, so I can't imagine what my cost will be.

soydeedo
04-26-2007, 04:31 PM
http://premier-audio.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_3

slick rick
04-26-2007, 04:36 PM
I don't mind buying something pretty good now, using it, enjoying it, then selling it and buying new equipment. As funds allow, I REALLY enjoy buying new equipment :)

I just don't really know where I'm at right now, but a $600+ component set is far out of my budget. I'd really like to be around $200 more or less, thats why I'm considering the SLC's, and possibly the germs, depending on what they actually cost. I can't even find a retail price for the Germ's anywhere, so I can't imagine what my cost will be.

people pay between 400ish-500ish depending on the dealer and market...

kendogg
04-26-2007, 05:13 PM
http://premier-audio.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_3

Thats awesome, thanks!!

Now, what is the main difference between the W265 and the W265 kick? In the description it says 'must be hi-pass'd at 80 Hz. DOes this mean that the lower-midbass is poor, or are these simply a stronger middriver than the regular W265?

Flipx99
04-26-2007, 05:46 PM
In the $200 range, I would reccomend the prs720

kendogg
04-26-2007, 06:09 PM
In the $200 range, I would reccomend the prs720


See, I've looked into that one, and it looks quite good. Although, I've read that the tweet is the lacking element in that set, is that true?


I can get any of the Rainbow stuff at cost, along with probably quite a bit of equipment, so, whatever that works out to, is what I can spend. I'm sure I can get the PRS's at cost, I know I can get alpine, etc.

nismos14
04-26-2007, 06:54 PM
If thats even remotely accurate than the CAL25 will **** on the PRS's tweet for sure. Midbass is SOLID from the SLC set too.

kendogg
04-26-2007, 08:13 PM
If thats even remotely accurate than the CAL25 will **** on the PRS's tweet for sure. Midbass is SOLID from the SLC set too.


Hmm, awesome. I wonder if I can get the Cal25VOF with the appropriate crossovers, and the W165 SLC mids?

Does anybody here know what the audible difference is between the kick and the regular version is? I'm just not sure what it really means for overall sound quality.

Flipx99
04-26-2007, 08:24 PM
See, I've looked into that one, and it looks quite good. Although, I've read that the tweet is the lacking element in that set, is that true?


I can get any of the Rainbow stuff at cost, along with probably quite a bit of equipment, so, whatever that works out to, is what I can spend. I'm sure I can get the PRS's at cost, I know I can get alpine, etc.

If you can get them at the same price, go with the SLC w/ upgraded tweeter for sure.

Flipx99
04-26-2007, 08:26 PM
If thats even remotely accurate than the CAL25 will **** on the PRS's tweet for sure. Midbass is SOLID from the SLC set too.

agreed about the tweeter.

It would be a close call with the Midbass though....

I was thinking the SLC was about $100 more than the prs720 though....and for that price you might get a seas neo or something to replace that tweeter and still be ~$40 ahead, provided you run active.

Flipx99
04-26-2007, 08:28 PM
Hmm, awesome. I wonder if I can get the Cal25VOF with the appropriate crossovers, and the W165 SLC mids?

Does anybody here know what the audible difference is between the kick and the regular version is? I'm just not sure what it really means for overall sound quality.

From the reviews I have read, there is a difference in the profi series. I would say that there is a difference in the SLC series as well.

I have heard of people running them at 63 vs 80 for better blending with the sub.

kendogg
04-26-2007, 08:35 PM
From the reviews I have read, there is a difference in the profi series. I would say that there is a difference in the SLC series as well.

I have heard of people running them at 63 vs 80 for better blending with the sub.

Well, like I said in my first post, I'm not running active. So, this'll be off a 2 channel amp, high passed wherever they sound best. I'm not quite sure I understand your answer, sorry if I'm missing something. I know that there is a difference between mid's in the kick's vs. regular SLC's, but what I'm asking is what is that difference?

nismos14
04-26-2007, 08:38 PM
The kicks "require" an 80hz xover, but are supposed to provide more punch right around that range.

When I had the SLC's in my doors (properly deadened and sealed up) the midbass's were pretty freaking sick. They produced a ton of midbass and were sufficient in full range listening without a sub. The kicks would probably be even better in the 80-125 hz range, but not necessary to enjoy the slc's.

Flipx99
04-26-2007, 08:40 PM
Well, like I said in my first post, I'm not running active. So, this'll be off a 2 channel amp, high passed wherever they sound best. I'm not quite sure I understand your answer, sorry if I'm missing something. I know that there is a difference between mid's in the kick's vs. regular SLC's, but what I'm asking is what is that difference?

The difference is the focus on the kick bass areas (about 80-125 Hz)

My SLCs were not properly deadened or sealed and I found them rather weak. The "kick" option can make up (somewhat) for lack of quality install.

Flipx99
04-26-2007, 08:42 PM
If it helps...me and nizmos both run Rainbow.

kendogg
04-26-2007, 08:42 PM
The kicks "require" an 80hz xover, but are supposed to provide more punch right around that range.

When I had the SLC's in my doors (properly deadened and sealed up) the midbass's were pretty freaking sick. They produced a ton of midbass and were sufficient in full range listening without a sub. The kicks would probably be even better in the 80-125 hz range, but not necessary to enjoy the slc's.

OK, I think I understand. Whats with this 'requirement' of the 80 Hz xover though? I mean, I don't think it's a smart idea to run any component set full range when being amplified, especially with alot of power, and extremely high listening levels. You'll run out of excursion way too quickly.

Flipx99
04-26-2007, 08:45 PM
Normal midbasses are crossed lower than 80 hertz in my experience.

kendogg
04-26-2007, 08:52 PM
Normal midbasses are crossed lower than 80 hertz in my experience.

I understand this, but I'm trying to figure out what this 80 Hz xover is all about. My doors will be heavily deadened, so, thats not going to be an issue. So, the kick option is a better midbass driver then? Or is it something to do with the xover? I'm sorry guys, not to sound like a ****, but you really aren't explaining it at all in a way that I can understand. Makes me almost feel like I should begin to agree with the guys on CAF.......

nismos14
04-26-2007, 08:54 PM
Ya normally I would x at around 60 hz or so. 80 is the requirement on the "kicks".

nismos14
04-26-2007, 08:55 PM
I understand this, but I'm trying to figure out what this 80 Hz xover is all about. My doors will be heavily deadened, so, thats not going to be an issue. So, the kick option is a better midbass driver then? Or is it something to do with the xover? I'm sorry guys, not to sound like a ****, but you really aren't explaining it at all in a way that I can understand. Makes me almost feel like I should begin to agree with the guys on CAF.......

The kicks won't go as low as the non kicks, but they have a bit better impact in the 80-125 range though.

kendogg
04-26-2007, 08:56 PM
Ya normally I would x at around 60 hz or so. 80 is the requirement on the "kicks".


Is there a reason for that, though, or is it simply excursion-based?

kendogg
04-26-2007, 08:57 PM
The kicks won't go as low as the non kicks, but they have a bit better impact in the 80-125 range though.


Ahh, thanks!!! I understand now.

Flipx99
04-26-2007, 09:00 PM
It's a matter of preference...

Do you want a more overall midbass ---stanard
Do you want a midbass that has more focus on the 80-125 region with some small sacrificies on the upper and lower end...then go with the kick.

kendogg
04-26-2007, 09:07 PM
It's a matter of preference...

Do you want a more overall midbass ---stanard
Do you want a midbass that has more focus on the 80-125 region with some small sacrificies on the upper and lower end...then go with the kick.

Yeah, I kinda of understand that now. Unfortunately, I have no idea what I would want though. I guess I need to get with John and see how well my sub is going to play up 60-80 range.

kendogg
04-26-2007, 11:52 PM
Well, I guess, unless somebody really convinces me otherwise, I'm going to buy the $80 Cadences from Cadence to hold me over until the SLC 265's are redesigned. Thanks for all the advice everybody!!!

slick rick
04-27-2007, 12:01 AM
if you run 80hz and up ONLY, and crave kick bass...get the kicks. It's very simple...

BlackMaxima
04-27-2007, 12:36 AM
xxk1500v1?

Whats that?

New?

I think the XXK's are gone anyways, may wanna look at the new Kar series amps when they come out.

i like that idea, new KAR series amps

nismos14
04-27-2007, 08:27 AM
900.6 drool. :)

BlackMaxima
04-27-2007, 06:49 PM
900.6 drool. :)

900.6 = 900W@6chn???


how do you know this??

alphakenny1
04-27-2007, 07:21 PM
900.6 = 900W@6chn???


how do you know this??

it's supposed to be the new big arc six channel amp:

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e40/6spdcoupe/CES%202007/CES2007074.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e40/6spdcoupe/CES%202007/CES2007073.jpg

BlackMaxima
04-27-2007, 07:41 PM
is that the way the new KAR amps are going to look like??
couse that kinda looks like a ArcAudio SE amps.

nismos14
04-27-2007, 07:47 PM
Yes, same chassis :)