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drifterman33
04-05-2007, 02:43 PM
Ok well I am building a custom hot rod and i want to have really great sound...i am not putting in subwoofers I just want REALLY Crisp clear sound without spending more that 1000 on it what would you suggest.

Railrocker
04-05-2007, 02:44 PM
HA HA that pacifier is awesome.

genxx
04-05-2007, 03:43 PM
Is that 1000 for everything amps, speakers and wiring.

drifterman33
04-05-2007, 03:46 PM
yes

genxx
04-05-2007, 04:04 PM
well to stay within your budget. I would use Pioneer TS720PRS up front or the REV TS-C160R. Pioneer REV 6x9 TS-D691R or TS-D901P in the back. Mabey add the TS-M7PRS if needed for some extra kick, but would need a second amp probably. AMP mabey the PRS-D4100F. You could keep it all Pioneer make it easy. You could always go the all Alpine route to. You should have no problem staying within budget, just look for some deals. There are several ways to go. Thats just a couple quick thoughts.

DejaWiz
04-05-2007, 04:13 PM
If you want really good sound system I would highly suggest you include the following items:

HU
Front Comps
Amp for comps
Sub (nothing extreme, and there are a lot well under $100 available)
Amp for sub
Forget rear speakers

Poke around places like onlinecarstereo.com, sonicelectronix.com, cardomain.com, and millionbuy.com as they all have some pretty solid deals.

If a sub and amp is totally out of the question, then go with some 6x9's in the rear that are known to have pretty good low end extension, such as the REVs.

Twistid
04-05-2007, 04:14 PM
you dont need a sub if your compenents are good enough

cdt m6's for example :)

drifterman33
04-05-2007, 04:21 PM
thanks guys i think I will look into what genxx said and stay with one brand....it might be pioneer but havent decided yet..

DejaWiz
04-05-2007, 04:21 PM
you dont need a sub if your compenents are good enough

cdt m6's for example :)

Oh c'mon now... we all know a dedicated sub will always add more depth than any 6.5" speaker can with subbass frequencies.

(well, when the install is done properly anyway)

Twistid
04-05-2007, 04:25 PM
considering he said he dident want a subwoofer, a NICE set of compenents will do just fine... and go as low as any subwoofer :)

DejaWiz
04-05-2007, 04:32 PM
considering he said he dident want a subwoofer, a NICE set of compenents will do just fine... and go as low as any subwoofer :)

Yes, he did say that. But I hinted that he may want to reconsider if he's doing an SQ system. ;)


Comps here with low-end: :crying:

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Sub here with low-end: :naughty:

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Gary S
04-05-2007, 04:37 PM
Great sound and no subwoofer? Those two things don't go together. The whole basis of great sound in a car starts with the subwoofer/satellite system. Plus, if the car is built for speed, you are not only going to need subs to hear any bass over vehicle noise, but long excursion subs and lots of power at that. Heck, even my 80 year old grandmother has a 15 inch subwoofer.

genxx
04-05-2007, 04:40 PM
Drifterman33- For a HU I would look at the 880PRS or something that gives you some eq and processing capabilities to get the most out of it and to do some fine tuning.

You can go with a sub to get that lower end. The trade off is giving up some space, another amp and some additional money that you could spend some where else like in the install department. It is a custom rod so do not need anything to take away from the car itself IMHO. Just something that sounds really good and get's decently loud just to add a little extra draw to rod itself and to listen to while cruising.IMO SQ does not have to have a sub he is not going to compete in the USAC or IASCA SQ classes. If so he will need more than 1000.00 to do it.

genxx
04-05-2007, 04:49 PM
Gary S-You need to go spend some time on ECA or http://diymobileaudio.com/forum. To learn what makes great SQ. The sub should blend so well that you do not even know its there. Not sure if you have spent alot of time around the SQ arena but might want to first. Long Excursion sub=SPL IMHO.

Driterman33-Its your rod do what makes you happy and fits your plan. This is the last I will say about the sub situation.

DejaWiz
04-05-2007, 04:55 PM
Drifterman33- For a HU I would look at the 880PRS or something that gives you some eq and processing capabilities to get the most out of it and to do some fine tuning.

You can go with a sub to get that lower end. The trade off is giving up some space, another amp and some additional money that you could spend some where else like in the install department. It is a custom rod so do not need anything to take away from the car itself IMHO. Just something that sounds really good and get's decently loud just to add a little extra draw to rod itself and to listen to while cruising.

IMO SQ does not have to have a sub he is not going to compete in the USAC or IASCA SQ classes. If so he will need more than 1000.00 to do it.

Yes, but the problem with the last statement is this:
SQ = Competing

When in reality:
SQ =/= Competing


Anyone can build a decent SQ system without having to go all out on it just for the sake of competing.

I have an SQ-oriented system in my car. It consists of front comps biamped from a 4ch amp, one sub on an amp putting out around 400W, and a higher-end HU. It's the best soundstaged and imaged system I have ever had in all the vehicles I have owned.... but I don't compete. My system would get murdered in the lanes by systems that are specifically designed and built to compete (and win) in SQ competitions.

Simplicity can = SQ.

Twistid
04-05-2007, 04:59 PM
Great sound and no subwoofer? Those two things don't go together. The whole basis of great sound in a car starts with the subwoofer/satellite system. Plus, if the car is built for speed, you are not only going to need subs to hear any bass over vehicle noise, but long excursion subs and lots of power at that. Heck, even my 80 year old grandmother has a 15 inch subwoofer.

ummm, r u cerial?

:suicide:

genxx
04-05-2007, 06:14 PM
Yes, but the problem with the last statement is this:
SQ = Competing

When in reality:
SQ =/= Competing


Anyone can build a decent SQ system without having to go all out on it just for the sake of competing.

I have an SQ-oriented system in my car. It consists of front comps biamped from a 4ch amp, one sub on an amp putting out around 400W, and a higher-end HU. It's the best soundstaged and imaged system I have ever had in all the vehicles I have owned.... but I don't compete. My system would get murdered in the lanes by systems that are specifically designed and built to compete (and win) in SQ competitions.

Simplicity can = SQ.

I agree, SQ always has been always will be in the eye of the beholder.
Simplicity can equal SQ. So if he decides he needs the sub then can add it at any time. But it is not madatory to good sound. My wifes SUV has no subs and sounds great and movies sound wonderful. It works as I intended it to.
So drifterman33 will have to decide what is unltimatly good for his rod. He said no sub so we should give him suggestions based on his questions, instead of trying to convince him to do what we think he should do.

DejaWiz
04-05-2007, 06:18 PM
I agree, SQ always has been always will be in the eye of the beholder.
Simplicity can equal SQ. So if he decides he needs the sub then can add it at any time. But it is not madatory to good sound. My wifes SUV has no subs and sounds great and movies sound wonderful. It works as I intended it to.
So drifterman33 will have to decide what is unltimatly good for his rod. He said no sub so we should give him suggestions based on his questions, instead of trying to convince him to do what we think he should do.

Yes, which is exactly why you and I both suggested the Pioneer REV 6x9 for rears if a sub is completely and totally out of the question. ;)

Heck, drifter can even forego the REVs and throw some Tang Band 6x9 subs back there with 100w rms each!

Orion Man
04-05-2007, 06:24 PM
I would go with even a single 10' sub. A sub will pickup the low end that the mids/highs won't. Plus, you get the added bonus of your music coming alive! Just my .02

ledzeppac
04-05-2007, 06:27 PM
I agree, SQ always has been always will be in the eye of the beholder.
Simplicity can equal SQ. So if he decides he needs the sub then can add it at any time. But it is not madatory to good sound. My wifes SUV has no subs and sounds great and movies sound wonderful. It works as I intended it to.
So drifterman33 will have to decide what is unltimatly good for his rod. He said no sub so we should give him suggestions based on his questions, instead of trying to convince him to do what we think he should do.


Also, some people see SQ as a good sounding speaker, not perfection in the whole system that will win competitions.

WillyG4444
04-05-2007, 10:33 PM
genxx are you like a rep for pioneer? In every thread i hear you suggesting their products =P

drifterman33
04-05-2007, 10:47 PM
wow i didnt post this so we could start an argument but ok.......I know that i dont have any room or money for subwoofers and i am ultimatly looking for great SQ out of some Componets and Rears powered by a decent but low cost amp...THANKS FOR THE HELP GUYS

genxx
04-06-2007, 01:55 AM
genxx are you like a rep for pioneer? In every thread i hear you suggesting their products =P

No I am actually in the military. That would be a cool job though as long as I can still run my Rainbow and ARC stuff. Yes some of my friends are company reps and I know alot of people. However no one from Pioneer. I do not run any Pioneer stuff at all. I got a 880PRS new sitting around right now though. Pioneer is just easy for people looking to just do something decent. A large dealer network easy to find. You get their stuff cheap cheap if you look around.

If you asked me hey what should I run, I am striving perfect musical
reproduction and have no budget, well different story.

ledzeppac-Go back and read what you wrote. Some people see SQ as a good sounding speaker, not perfection in the whole system that will win competitions. The system is a package, if this where true then if I just buy some Rainbow Platinum speakers and run it of my Craig Tape deck then it should sound great. Alot of poeple would be doing it don't you think. Read the whole thread and exactly what I wrote.:suicide:


I used to compete in USAC/IASCA in the mid late 90's. Been to the world finals couple times. I am not expert by any means. There are people on here and other forums that can make me look like an idiot. I have been in car audio or around it for almost 20years. I can actually remember sitting in Mark Fakuda's yellow Jimmy when it first came out, the original Lanzar Hurst, Fishman's car with the fishtank. So there is the background everyone seems to want.

Its not all about competition that is what I have been saying the whole **** time. Thats why he doesn't need to go all out with stuff. Some of you on here need some reading comprehension classes.

What kills me is Drifterman has multiple times in this post said no sub. Yet everyone continues to recommend a sub. Do you guys listen to no one about anything. Its all sub this and sub that. No one even gave him a recommendation about his actual questions.

Please remember its all IMO. Also in alot of my threads I use IMO and IMHO because thats just what it is.

ledzeppac
04-06-2007, 02:31 AM
No I am actually in the military. That would be a cool job though as long as I can still run my Rainbow and ARC stuff. Yes some of my friends are company reps and I know alot of people. However no one from Pioneer. I do not run any Pioneer stuff at all. I got a 880PRS new sitting around right now though. Pioneer is just easy for people looking to just do something decent. A large dealer network easy to find. You get their stuff cheap cheap if you look around.

If you asked me hey what should I run, I am striving perfect musical
reproduction and have no budget, well different story.

ledzeppac-Go back and read what you wrote. Some people see SQ as a good sounding speaker, not perfection in the whole system that will win competitions. The system is a package, if this where true then if I just buy some Rainbow Platinum speakers and run it of my Craig Tape deck then it should sound great. Alot of poeple would be doing it don't you think. Read the whole thread and exactly what I wrote.:suicide:


I used to compete in USAC/IASCA in the mid late 90's. Been to the world finals couple times. I am not expert by any means. There are people on here and other forums that can make me look like an idiot. I have been in car audio or around it for almost 20years. I can actually remember sitting in Mark Fakuda's yellow Jimmy when it first came out, the original Lanzar Hurst, Fishman's car with the fishtank. So there is the background everyone seems to want.

Its not all about competition that is what I have been saying the whole **** time. Thats why he doesn't need to go all out with stuff. Some of you on here need some reading comprehension classes.

What kills me is Drifterman has multiple times in this post said no sub. Yet everyone continues to recommend a sub. Do you guys listen to no one about anything. Its all sub this and sub that. No one even gave him a recommendation about his actual questions.

Please remember its all IMO. Also in alot of my threads I use IMO and IMHO because thats just what it is.

I think we are both argueing the same thing, I was trying to add to your post not disagree.:suicide: He wants no sub, but something that will have decent sound quality... ie. not sound like ****.

DejaWiz
04-06-2007, 11:17 AM
What kills me is Drifterman has multiple times in this post said no sub. Yet everyone continues to recommend a sub. Do you guys listen to no one about anything. Its all sub this and sub that. No one even gave him a recommendation about his actual questions.

Please remember its all IMO. Also in alot of my threads I use IMO and IMHO because thats just what it is.

And your opinions have been noted by all I'm sure.

Oh, and you might want to read the other posts again.... there have been multiple recommendations for rear speakers instead of a sub even from people who are asking drifter to reconsider and use a sub.

It's not like we're all recommending he go with the biggest amps and subs he can find for some real ghettofabulous bass.

Even a budget sub and amp will add more depth and definition to music; and yes, they will cost more than a good set of 6x9's for sure, but the price difference likely won't cause sticker shock (depending on drifter's overall budget and what kind of deals he can find). Ultimately it's his call. We have given him input and suggestions for all possible scenarios. It's up to him in entirety what to do with the input and suggestions.

DejaWiz
04-06-2007, 11:21 AM
1. wow i didnt post this so we could start an argument but ok.......

2. I know that i dont have any room or money for subwoofers and i am ultimatly looking for great SQ out of some Componets and Rears powered by a decent but low cost amp...

3. THANKS FOR THE HELP GUYS

1. Sorry. :crap:

2. Duly noted. :graduate:

3. You're certainly welcome! :naughty:

Twistid
04-06-2007, 11:24 AM
considering he said he dident want a subwoofer, a NICE set of compenents will do just fine... and go as low as any subwoofer :)

x2

go for cdt m6's!!!

ive heard a pair and **** they are loud and get low!:fro:

ledzeppac
04-06-2007, 12:33 PM
x2

go for cdt m6's!!!

ive heard a pair and **** they are loud and get low!:fro:


Those are probably out of his budget too...

Twistid
04-06-2007, 12:34 PM
um no

http://cgi.ebay.com/6-3-4-CDT-Audio-HDM6-mid-bass-sub-bass-M6-1-pair_W0QQitemZ150099048816QQihZ005QQcategoryZ32819 QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

250 shipped

DejaWiz
04-06-2007, 12:42 PM
um no

http://cgi.ebay.com/6-3-4-CDT-Audio-HDM6-mid-bass-sub-bass-M6-1-pair_W0QQitemZ150099048816QQihZ005QQcategoryZ32819 QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

250 shipped

How do the M6's compare to the TB-W6's (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=264-832)?

genxx
04-06-2007, 01:12 PM
DejaWiz-You are correct you did. :graduate: But you also left 3 replies regarding doing a sub. But I see what you are saying.
Not everyone was on the sub kick.
I was just trying to get people to actually just answer Drifterman33 question.:)
The M6's are nice but the TANG BAND W6 looks :yumyum:. IMO
Also there is decent deal on Germs CS265.25 on ebay as long as the price doesn't get driven to high and some Profi Van CS265 w/phase plugs their used though. Might look at either set instead of the 720PRS if you get ahold of either set. Its my baised Rainbow plug.:)

ledzeppac
04-06-2007, 05:04 PM
The m6 and tang bands look nice but then hes going to have to piece together a component set; and it doesnt sound like he would like to do that. :graduate:

DejaWiz
04-06-2007, 05:16 PM
The m6 and tang bands look nice but then hes going to have to piece together a component set; and it doesnt sound like he would like to do that. :graduate:

We recommended the M6's or TB's for rears in conjunction with a set of comps up front.

Hintzyboy
04-06-2007, 07:26 PM
Here's an idea. Try finding a set of 3-way components that have an 8" woofer, probably a 4 or 5" midrange, and the tweeter. This would let you have decent low-end extension without going with a full-fledged substage. Ditch the rears, a properly installed front stage will render them useless.