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skitzafit
03-29-2007, 08:37 PM
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r155/IA201/box1.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r155/IA201/box2.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r155/IA201/box3.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r155/IA201/box4.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r155/IA201/box6.jpg
Good guy here, even drove almost 2 hours to deliver it. Wont know how it sounds till this weekend.

Tiger Bass
03-29-2007, 08:38 PM
Why didn't he use mdf?

JoshHd6
03-29-2007, 08:38 PM
teh secks

Eugenics
03-29-2007, 08:38 PM
he is a very good guy.

skitzafit
03-29-2007, 08:40 PM
From what I have been told brich is stronger and lighter. It is lighter thats for sure.

muted
03-29-2007, 08:40 PM
Yay for no terminal cups

kicker06
03-29-2007, 08:41 PM
Why didn't he use mdf?

areyouserious?

kickerlivinloud
03-29-2007, 08:53 PM
Specs???


Looks good either way!



Jon

skitzafit
03-29-2007, 09:14 PM
4@32.

Belunt
03-29-2007, 09:38 PM
Good guy here, even drove almost 2 hours to deliver it. Wont know how it sounds till this weekend.
Thanks man, get it hooked up so we can get your review on the sound ;)

Why didn't he use mdf?
:wow:

teh secks
X2

he is a very good guy.
Thanks brotha

From what I have been told brich is stronger and lighter. It is lighter thats for sure.
X2 :), also notice the double baffle.

Yay for no terminal cups
I don't use terminal cups on any of my enclosures.

areyouserious?
X2

Specs???

Looks good either way!

Jon
Thanks bro.

skitzafit
03-29-2007, 09:47 PM
Will do. Also this feels lighter then a moe lesters 3@35 out of mdf with a single baffle.

bdawson72
03-29-2007, 09:49 PM
he's a good guy

Ali1
03-29-2007, 09:54 PM
he's definately a great guy.......


linda?

Belunt
03-29-2007, 10:16 PM
Thanks for all the kind words fellas :). Ali you leave Linda outta this, that womans a saint ahahah. Here's a few more shots of this enclosure:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v399/Belunt/15BTLDblBfl002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v399/Belunt/15BTLDblBfl001.jpg

jeremiah
03-29-2007, 10:47 PM
Why didn't he use mdf?

crap>mdf

Ricky616
03-29-2007, 10:51 PM
Nice box props to belunt. :D

dvrmstrng
03-29-2007, 10:51 PM
poop > MDF

JohnBlayz142
03-29-2007, 10:51 PM
crap>mdf
:uhoh:

dumple
03-29-2007, 10:52 PM
mines cooler lol just playin looks good another awesome box by an awesome guy

jeremiah
03-29-2007, 11:00 PM
mines cooler lol just playin looks good another awesome box by an awesome gay


it is a good box

Flipx99
03-29-2007, 11:44 PM
You should stain it...staining boxes = teh coolness.

PV Audio
03-30-2007, 12:43 AM
I still cannot understand in the least why people use plywoods over MDF in car audio. Seriously, it is a colossal waste of money. unless you have a huge enclosure, there is no point. You are only going to see advantages if it's true 13 ply anyway, which costs 3-4x more than MDF for only weight savings (you will never see the other benefits in car audio subwoofer enclosures). MDF has been used for years, and is still the #1 material used in home audio speakers made for production. Again, save your money, because unless you understand the reasons to use plys instead of MDF (which there are none in this case), you're throwing money away and costing the customer more.

PV Audio
03-30-2007, 12:45 AM
areyouserious?


crap>mdf


poop > MDF
Yep, none of you have any idea as to what you're talking about. Just because this forum has taken to using birch ply for some reason does not mean that the industry has changed in the least. Both have been around forever, and MDF still has the practicality benefits on its side.

lilmaniac2
03-30-2007, 12:47 AM
if your shipping a box it should be made out of birch because the amount of money you save in shipping offsets the greater cost of wood

PV Audio
03-30-2007, 12:49 AM
if your shipping a box it should be made out of birch because the amount of money you save in shipping offsets the greater cost of woodUm, no, it won't in the least come close. Good BB ply can cost you around 65 dollars. 1/5 less weight does not equal 45 dollars less in shipping.

PV Audio
03-30-2007, 12:50 AM
Again, baltic birch is a good material, but as I said, it's EXTREMELY expensive for benefits you won't see in car audio. The **** they sell at lowes is truly worthless because it's full of voids and is still 2x the price of MDF for only a drop in weight.

Wkbdkid
03-30-2007, 12:54 AM
Thanks for all the kind words fellas :). Ali you leave Linda outta this, that womans a saint ahahah. Here's a few more shots of this enclosure:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v399/Belunt/15BTLDblBfl002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v399/Belunt/15BTLDblBfl001.jpg
Looks like a big port, how many sq.in? Also Do you use anchors or something for the screws to hold the sub down?

PV Audio
03-30-2007, 12:57 AM
If you all don't believe me:

http://www.woodnshop.com/hardwood/Baltic_Birch_Plywood.htm

60x60 = 3600 in^2 = 80+ dollars

49x97 (MDF) = 4753 in^2 = 20-22 dollars

Now, can you honestly sit there and tell me that you will recover all those losses when you are paying over 4x more for less material?

jibberjive
03-30-2007, 01:28 AM
To Belnut, not hating at all cause that's a beautiful enclosure. So what kind of plywood was this enclosure made out of (baltic birch, etc), how many ply, and where did you buy it? If you don't mind me asking, how much did a sheet cost (you can PM me if you don't want to post it here)? Just curious as to why you chose to do the labrynth port shape with the 180 degree bends rather than an L (an L has less resistance to airflow, correct?)?

Does anyone have a pic of a car audio enclosure that someone made out of plywood and stained? I'm really considering the idea.

BTW, this is interesting. I've of course heard of using plywood, its benefits as well as its drawbacks, but never have I seen so much MDF hating. Then again I don't usually post here (I'm a CAFer, but I'm around here more often now because CAF is a little too full of the repetitive questions), so mabye this forum is just extemely biased to the plywood, so much as to degrade MDF. IDK

jibberjive
03-30-2007, 01:31 AM
And do either of you have closer up pics of the screw speaker terminals? Are there special bolts that conduct better than others that need to be used?

PV Audio
03-30-2007, 01:33 AM
:rolleyes: If you don't understand why you would use plywood, then you have no reason to use it. Am I an *******? Maybe. Do I know how to make enclosures and not waste money on things that give me no practical benefits? 100% yes.

T3mpest
03-30-2007, 01:35 AM
Yep, none of you have any idea as to what you're talking about. Just because this forum has taken to using birch ply for some reason does not mean that the industry has changed in the least. Both have been around forever, and MDF still has the practicality benefits on its side.

General marine grade plywood (or Baltic birch, apple ply, or any other void-free plywood) is superior for subwoofer use. The reason: stiffness.
Subwoofer cabinets WILL talk - they will vibrate. The key is to keep the cabinet from vibrating in the frequency range of the subwoofer. There's two ways to do it: push the resonance of the cabinet above the pass band of the driver, or push the resonance of the cabinet below the pass band of the driver.

To push the resonance above the pass band, we need to make the cabinet stiff. Stiffen something, and it resonates at a higher frequency. In this case, plywood is MUCH better than MDF. Plywood is simply stiffer than MDF, and that's why it is used for sub-flooring, cabinetry bases, and other strength-critical uses. It is the lamination of cross-oriented layers of wood that gives you the strength. No matter how you try to bend it, some of the wood fibers are in tension, which is where they are strongest.

To push the resonance below the pass band, we need to make the cabinet heavy. Add mass to something, and it resonates at a lower frequency. This is where MDF is better - it is much denser than plywood, and as such will take less thickness to lower the resonant frequency of the box. Of course, making a wall thicker also increases the stiffness, which runs slightly counter to the addition of the mass; the resonance still lowers, but not as fast as one would expect.

Overall, it's easier to make a box sufficiently stiff to not resonate below 300 Hz, than it is to make a box heavy enough to not resonate above 15 Hz. Bracing and stiff wall materials raise the resonance - bracing ADDS stiffness (as well as physical strength to hold up a driver, for instance).

Additionally, we need to consider the internal loss. As sound passes through material boundaries, it loses energy. The more layers, and the greater the changes in density, the more energy is lost. MDF is a VERY homogeneous material - it has little internal loss. Plywood, on the other hand, has multiple layers and has considerably higher internal loss. So acoustic waves will be better attenuated by plywood than by MDF.

And in the automotive world it is, IMHO, superior to MDF in two other significant ways: weight and water resistance. Less weight is always good - better gas mileage, easier to build/move, etc. And plywood doesn't swell and turn to mush, like MDF. In fact, marine grade plywood is VERY water resistant. No problems living in damp conditions in car trunks, or getting rained on occasionally.

Overall, if you don't mind paying an extra $25 a sheet for the material, I'd go with a quality void-free plywood (marine grade, Baltic birch, apple ply) over MDF, especially for subwoofers in cars. Lots of benefits, and only one real drawback (the slightly higher cost).


(tell that to Dan Wiggins)

tommyk90
03-30-2007, 01:42 AM
I still cannot understand in the least why people use plywoods over MDF in car audio. Seriously, it is a colossal waste of money. unless you have a huge enclosure, there is no point. You are only going to see advantages if it's true 13 ply anyway, which costs 3-4x more than MDF for only weight savings (you will never see the other benefits in car audio subwoofer enclosures). MDF has been used for years, and is still the #1 material used in home audio speakers made for production. Again, save your money, because unless you understand the reasons to use plys instead of MDF (which there are none in this case), you're throwing money away and costing the customer more.

Why is it that every time a thread pops up about birch you have to go and post the same old bullshit?

Please just shut the f*ck up and keep your OPINION to yourself, because nobody else wants to hear it.

The box looks very nice, THAT'S WHAT THE CUSTOMER WANTED, and guess what, it didn't cost you a dime. So STFU.

mlstrass
03-30-2007, 01:52 AM
Personally I'm SICK of MDF dust, so BB it is for me. Luckily I can swing the extra $$$ for it. LOL

And IMO it looks nice stained. PV have you ever built a box with BB? After finishing my first one I knew I'd never use MDF again...

Eugenics
03-30-2007, 02:21 AM
I think carpeted boxes are ugly. and i would never run an MDF box ugly. birch is where its at. And the cost argument? bunk. Is a 300 dollar SPL driver 100 or even 25% better than a 200 dollar SPL driver for the same purpose? probably not.

tez4life
03-30-2007, 02:29 AM
Nice, as usually beautiful work by Mr Belunt:thumbsup:

ballstothewall
03-30-2007, 02:42 AM
Have you ever considered trying mitered edges so you don't see any endgrain??

Nice looking craftsmanship on the box, although my personal preference is making the box so you can't see endgrain on the front baffle.

skitzafit
03-30-2007, 04:44 AM
I have no problem with the look of it. I wanted it bare.

lookitsjim23
03-30-2007, 04:52 AM
box does look very nice

momuzykent
03-30-2007, 07:20 AM
nice job...

Belunt
03-30-2007, 08:29 AM
To Belnut, not hating at all cause that's a beautiful enclosure. So what kind of plywood was this enclosure made out of (baltic birch, etc), how many ply, and where did you buy it? If you don't mind me asking, how much did a sheet cost (you can PM me if you don't want to post it here)? Just curious as to why you chose to do the labrynth port shape with the 180 degree bends rather than an L (an L has less resistance to airflow, correct?)?

Does anyone have a pic of a car audio enclosure that someone made out of plywood and stained? I'm really considering the idea.

BTW, this is interesting. I've of course heard of using plywood, its benefits as well as its drawbacks, but never have I seen so much MDF hating. Then again I don't usually post here (I'm a CAFer, but I'm around here more often now because CAF is a little too full of the repetitive questions), so mabye this forum is just extemely biased to the plywood, so much as to degrade MDF. IDK
You got da PMs, and there is a reason behind just about everything on the box. HERE (http://www.caraudiojunkyard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=743) is a link to an enclosure I just did with a stained baffle, haven't had an order for a full stain yet but keep your eyes peeled in the future. This one in particular was setup to be possibly carpeted at a later time reason behind visible screws/joints like this. I'm biased to Birch for a number or reasons particularly over MDF.

And do either of you have closer up pics of the screw speaker terminals? Are there special bolts that conduct better than others that need to be used?
Just binding posts, these:
http://www.partsexpress.com/images/091-1247m.jpg

Personally I'm SICK of MDF dust, so BB it is for me. Luckily I can swing the extra $$$ for it. LOL

And IMO it looks nice stained. PV have you ever built a box with BB? After finishing my first one I knew I'd never use MDF again...
X2

Nice, as usually beautiful work by Mr Belunt:thumbsup:
Thanks man

Have you ever considered trying mitered edges so you don't see any endgrain??

Nice looking craftsmanship on the box, although my personal preference is making the box so you can't see endgrain on the front baffle.
This enclosure was setup for possible carpet at a later point and to be built naked, not a full stain so the build was different as opposed to a full stain in which screw heads wouldn't be visible.

box does look very nice
Thanks Jim

nice job...
Thank ya

jibberjive
03-30-2007, 09:07 AM
You got da PMs
No, can't say that I do have PM's:confused: As far as the reasoning behind the labrynth rather than the L, I can't imagine that'd be top secret (like the prices;)) so why don't you go ahead and post that here. To be honest I can't think of any advantages to it over the L shape, unless the mounting depth is an issue. BTW that stained baffel box is one of the best looking boxes I've seen. Did you have the same issues bending the birch as the previous poster? Did you buy those binding posts locally, or online? another BTW, I'd never heard of that other forum you linked until right now.:suave:

Belunt
03-30-2007, 09:16 AM
No, can't say that I do have PM's:confused: As far as the reasoning behind the labrynth rather than the L, I can't imagine that'd be top secret (like the prices;)) so why don't you go ahead and post that here. To be honest I can't think of any advantages to it over the L shape, unless the mounting depth is an issue. BTW that stained baffel box is one of the best looking boxes I've seen. Did you have the same issues bending the birch as the previous poster? Did you buy those binding posts locally, or online? another BTW, I'd never heard of that other forum you linked until right now.:suave:
You do now, sorry CA was acting up there for a minute? I'm not sure if anyone asked about the box price but my prices are no secret, ask those in the past who have bought off me and they'll tell you my prices were extremely reasonable. Not sure what issues you're talking about but no, other than not wanting to sell it after looking at the finished product ;). Partsexpress.com - sells those binding posts. And CAJ FTW!

jibberjive
03-30-2007, 09:27 AM
I wasn't referring to you box prices as top secret. I made that comment because I told you to PM with the price you paid for the birch if you didn't want to post it here (IDK some people might have a problem with saying how much materials were cause then someone could know how much their labor/profit was. I thought I'd just be sensitive in case that's how you are.) So was the labrynth because of the mounting depth or other advantages/concerns?

Belunt
03-30-2007, 09:27 AM
And as far as the wood debate that poked its head into the thread, next time I'm going to ask that you make another thread and leave it off my build threads. Thanks :)

Jibber check you PMs

PV Audio
03-30-2007, 01:10 PM
General marine grade plywood (or Baltic birch, apple ply, or any other void-free plywood) is superior for subwoofer use. The reason: stiffness.
Subwoofer cabinets WILL talk - they will vibrate. The key is to keep the cabinet from vibrating in the frequency range of the subwoofer. There's two ways to do it: push the resonance of the cabinet above the pass band of the driver, or push the resonance of the cabinet below the pass band of the driver.

To push the resonance above the pass band, we need to make the cabinet stiff. Stiffen something, and it resonates at a higher frequency. In this case, plywood is MUCH better than MDF. Plywood is simply stiffer than MDF, and that's why it is used for sub-flooring, cabinetry bases, and other strength-critical uses. It is the lamination of cross-oriented layers of wood that gives you the strength. No matter how you try to bend it, some of the wood fibers are in tension, which is where they are strongest.

To push the resonance below the pass band, we need to make the cabinet heavy. Add mass to something, and it resonates at a lower frequency. This is where MDF is better - it is much denser than plywood, and as such will take less thickness to lower the resonant frequency of the box. Of course, making a wall thicker also increases the stiffness, which runs slightly counter to the addition of the mass; the resonance still lowers, but not as fast as one would expect.

Overall, it's easier to make a box sufficiently stiff to not resonate below 300 Hz, than it is to make a box heavy enough to not resonate above 15 Hz. Bracing and stiff wall materials raise the resonance - bracing ADDS stiffness (as well as physical strength to hold up a driver, for instance).

Additionally, we need to consider the internal loss. As sound passes through material boundaries, it loses energy. The more layers, and the greater the changes in density, the more energy is lost. MDF is a VERY homogeneous material - it has little internal loss. Plywood, on the other hand, has multiple layers and has considerably higher internal loss. So acoustic waves will be better attenuated by plywood than by MDF.

And in the automotive world it is, IMHO, superior to MDF in two other significant ways: weight and water resistance. Less weight is always good - better gas mileage, easier to build/move, etc. And plywood doesn't swell and turn to mush, like MDF. In fact, marine grade plywood is VERY water resistant. No problems living in damp conditions in car trunks, or getting rained on occasionally.

Overall, if you don't mind paying an extra $25 a sheet for the material, I'd go with a quality void-free plywood (marine grade, Baltic birch, apple ply) over MDF, especially for subwoofers in cars. Lots of benefits, and only one real drawback (the slightly higher cost).


(tell that to Dan Wiggins)
Anything you buy at lowes or home depot is not void free. I've seen it myself as I've done the plywood thing multiple times.

Tommy, I didn't mean to instigate anything. I'm merely trying to help people save money from this bandwagon that's going around. It seems as though people keep using it without understanding why others are using it when both materials have been around forever. Please don't kill me :crap:

Belunt
03-30-2007, 01:37 PM
Anything you buy at lowes or home depot is not void free. I've seen it myself as I've done the plywood thing multiple times.

Tommy, I didn't mean to instigate anything. I'm merely trying to help people save money from this bandwagon that's going around. It seems as though people keep using it without understanding why others are using it when both materials have been around forever. Please don't kill me :crap:
I told you to take it elsewhere. Do us both a favor and keep it off my threads from now on.

And people do save money by coming to me, they get what they want for excellent prices. Any past customer would agree. Most are extremely surprised when I quote them since they thought going into it that my work would cost much more. So don't worry about saving people money and worry more about your customer service, telling forum members "none of you have any idea as to what you're talking about" isn't what I would call treating anyone with respect.

Mr. Opportunist
03-30-2007, 01:41 PM
Anything you buy at lowes or home depot is not void free. I've seen it myself as I've done the plywood thing multiple times.

Tommy, I didn't mean to instigate anything. I'm merely trying to help people save money from this bandwagon that's going around. It seems as though people keep using it without understanding why others are using it when both materials have been around forever. Please don't kill me :crap:
Must you be reminded of what your enclosures use to look like? SMFH

Get aids.....

/story

dumple
03-30-2007, 01:41 PM
i agree with belunt he built my box almost the same and im soo happy with it i dont think i would choose another box if u dont like what the guy does who gives a flying whoop keep it to yourself i think ur the only negative person in this thread about his boxes(pv audio)

PV Audio
03-30-2007, 02:03 PM
I told you to take it elsewhere. Do us both a favor and keep it off my threads from now on.

And people do save money by coming to me, they get what they want for excellent prices. Any past customer would agree. Most are extremely surprised when I quote them since they thought going into it that my work would cost much more. So don't worry about saving people money and worry more about your customer service, telling forum members "none of you have any idea as to what you're talking about" isn't what I would call treating anyone with respect.I've complimented your construction multiple times and I still feel it's excellent. I never talked bad about the work in general, only the choice of wood, which you seem to understand; thus making my point irrelevant. My only thought was that you too had taken up the bandwagon. No offense meant man, my emotions get the best of me some time. And I said that they knew nothing because they said that ****>MDF when that's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.

Mr. Opportunist
03-30-2007, 02:06 PM
I've complimented your construction multiple times and I still feel it's excellent. I never talked bad about the work in general, only the choice of wood, which you seem to understand; thus making my point irrelevant. My only thought was that you too had taken up the bandwagon. No offense meant man, my emotions get the best of me some time. And I said that they knew nothing because they said that ****>MDF when that's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.
This coming from the man that built these.... ROFL

http://tinypic.com/bg69p2.jpg

PV Audio
03-30-2007, 02:09 PM
This coming from the man that built these.... ROFL
This has nothing to do with you whatsoever. If you wish to make fun of me (which really makes fun of yourself since all of those were built 5 years ago when I was 13-14), visit the lounge.

Mr. Opportunist
03-30-2007, 02:11 PM
This has nothing to do with you whatsoever. If you wish to make fun of me (which really makes fun of yourself since all of those were built 5 years ago when I was 13-14), visit the lounge.
Right, those are what the boxes you use to sell looked like less then 2 years ago, would you like to try again *******?

PV Audio
03-30-2007, 02:15 PM
Right, those are what the boxes you use to sell looked like less then 2 years ago, would you like to try again *******?
Right. Considering you know me better than myself even, you would know if you looked back into the home audio section where i first posted those that they were some of my first speaker attempts. But, instead of doing that, you decided to make up your own decisions on what really happened. Considering all of them are sitting in a home, do you think it really makes sense that I would be selling anything that looks like that? Use your brain, if it hasn't atrophied from lack of use.

PV Audio
03-30-2007, 02:16 PM
Excuse me for the cluttering Belunt.

Mr. Opportunist
03-30-2007, 02:18 PM
Right. Considering you know me better than myself even, you would know if you looked back into the home audio section where i first posted those that they were some of my first speaker attempts. But, instead of doing that, you decided to make up your own decisions on what really happened. Considering all of them are sitting in a home, do you think it really makes sense that I would be selling anything that looks like that? Use your brain, if it hasn't atrophied from lack of use.
Your car audio boxes looked the exact same what point are you trying to get at? Anyone with half a brain can use the search function to come to the same conclusion that I have that you know jack ****, you're previous builds prove this greater then I ever could.

PV Audio
03-30-2007, 02:19 PM
Your car audio boxes looked the exact same what point are you trying to get at? Anyone with half a brain can use the search function to come to the same conclusion that I have that you know jack ****, you're previous builds prove this greater then I ever could.All I can do is smile. So here: :)

Mr. Opportunist
03-30-2007, 02:24 PM
All I can do is smile. So here: :)
Why is that, just finish shaving your pits and have a fresh tingling sensation?


anyone besides me? cuts down on sweat and chafing while lifting ;)

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101589

Flipx99
03-30-2007, 02:24 PM
I am a member of the birch bandwagon. I rep the 7ply. Good work as usual.

What tooth blade do you use to make your cuts? I use a 60 tooth but I still get some shredding on the edges.

PV Audio
03-30-2007, 02:27 PM
I am a member of the birch bandwagon. I rep the 7ply. Good work as usual.

What tooth blade do you use to make your cuts? I use a 60 tooth but I still get some shredding on the edges.
You need a far finer blade, maybe 120. They make plywood blades as well, but they're ****ing horrible. They just hack at the wood and cause kickback like a horse shot in the balls.

Mr. Opportunist
03-30-2007, 02:28 PM
You need a far finer blade, maybe 120. They make plywood blades as well, but they're ****ing horrible. They just hack at the wood and cause kickback like a horse shot in the balls.
How would you know how a horse shot in the balls reacts?

Belunt
03-30-2007, 02:31 PM
This really is ashame for Skitzafit that the thread went this route. Show some respect guys, if you want to make a wood versus wood thread have at it. Please just take it elsewhere and keep this crap out of my build threads.

Flipx99
03-30-2007, 02:33 PM
Did you see my q? I noticed the page change.

Do you use a 10" table saw? If so what blade to get the smooth cuts?
I use a 60 tooth but was wonder if it would be worth it to upgrade?

I could not find this 120 tooth blade PV was talking about

Belunt
03-30-2007, 02:34 PM
Did you see my q? I noticed the page change.

Do you use a 10" table saw? If so what blade to get the smooth cuts?
I use a 60 tooth but was wonder if it would be worth it to upgrade?

I could not find this 120 tooth blade PV was talking about
I figured it was pure sarcasm after you said "I rep the 7ply".

Flipx99
03-30-2007, 02:36 PM
I figured it was pure sarcasm after you said "I rep the 7ply".

That was sarcasm. I guess I should have made a better transition. I am truley interested in an answer.

PV Audio
03-30-2007, 02:39 PM
Excuse me, I thought that you said 40 teeh. My fault. 60 should be okay as long as it's carbide tipped. What kind of blade are you using? If not, try to find a 100 tooth. Reading > me.

PV Audio
03-30-2007, 02:41 PM
I use one of these when I use BB:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000089H9H/ref=nosim/?tag=dealtime-tools-20&creative=380333&creativeASIN=B000089H9H&linkCode=asn

Ends chipping like a mother.