PDA

View Full Version : Help me with a general crossover point



Darren5531
03-22-2007, 02:48 PM
I'm about to buy some old rainbow speakers but I'm not really sure what a good crossover point would be. It says on the speaker the frequency is 55-6000hz and their sensitivity is 90 db 1w1m. I don't have any information on the tweeter that comes with it besides they are soft domes. I'm not sure if I will be able to go active or not so I'm just looking to see if I can find a crossover that would work. The speakers say only 60w rms on them and they are 4 ohm.

Thanks for your time,

Darren

mvw2
03-22-2007, 03:03 PM
Know the model number? Looked for any product information/user manuals from Rainbow's site?

Although the range is listed from 55Hz to 6000Hz, 55Hz generally being the resonance frequency, Fs, the usable upper end normally not so usable. If I were to guess, you'd be looking at 2000Hz to 3000Hz tops for a normal 6.5" woofer. The 2000Hz-3000Hz x-over range is very common for most 6.5" woofers and a good bet for a starting point. If you're running active, you are free to play around with x-over points and slopes and find the best setup. If you plan on buying/building a passive x-over for it, then you kind of have to shoot for a safe point and hope all turns out well, lol, not exactly the best route. There are a lot of relatively affordalbe high end HUs capable of controlling an active setup, Pioneer's DEH-P880PRS being a good one at under $300. There are also plenty of basic to extensive seperate x-over processing components available as well. Heck, even some amps do have full x-over control to handle a 2-way + sub setup, although, they're usually not cheap.

You didn't really say what you had for hardware, so I'm just sort of providing some suggestions. If all you needed was a good starting point, 2000Hz to 3000Hz should be your sweet spot. It just sort of depends on how high the woofer can play before introducing distortion/breakup/beaming and how low the tweeter can play before you start over excurting it.

MiniVanMan
03-22-2007, 06:00 PM
Know the model number? Looked for any product information/user manuals from Rainbow's site?

Although the range is listed from 55Hz to 6000Hz, 55Hz generally being the resonance frequency, Fs, the usable upper end normally not so usable. If I were to guess, you'd be looking at 2000Hz to 3000Hz tops for a normal 6.5" woofer. The 2000Hz-3000Hz x-over range is very common for most 6.5" woofers and a good bet for a starting point. If you're running active, you are free to play around with x-over points and slopes and find the best setup. If you plan on buying/building a passive x-over for it, then you kind of have to shoot for a safe point and hope all turns out well, lol, not exactly the best route. There are a lot of relatively affordalbe high end HUs capable of controlling an active setup, Pioneer's DEH-P880PRS being a good one at under $300. There are also plenty of basic to extensive seperate x-over processing components available as well. Heck, even some amps do have full x-over control to handle a 2-way + sub setup, although, they're usually not cheap.

You didn't really say what you had for hardware, so I'm just sort of providing some suggestions. If all you needed was a good starting point, 2000Hz to 3000Hz should be your sweet spot. It just sort of depends on how high the woofer can play before introducing distortion/breakup/beaming and how low the tweeter can play before you start over excurting it.

Spot on, but I'll add that how they'll be installed is key. In kicks, on-axis you can get away with a much higher xover point than in the doors. Like above, if you're putting them in doors you want to use around 2-3k. The lower the better. In kicks you can probably get away with up to 3-4k. Lower is always better, it's just harder to find a tweeter, reasonably priced that can handle 2k. However, if the cone is subject to breakup, like most cones are, you want to keep your crossover points as low as possible regardless of installation location.

loserpunk
03-23-2007, 12:43 AM
ditto with everything said above, and i just want to emphasize how much happier you'll be, imo, if you go active, if you go passive, you'll have to continually guess and check unless you get the xover pt and slope that rainbow recommends, it will just be easier to do active, i mean, all you need is a decent deck(like the 880 mentioned above) and a 4x60 watt amp.....should be very affordable

Darren5531
03-23-2007, 01:25 AM
First of all I just want to say thank you for all the very informative and helpful posts. I was hoping to be able to active from the start, but I just don't know if I will be able to afford it right now, but in the near future. Would I be able to get the same affect from an electronic active crossover as I would from buying a new head unit? Just I would have to control things from my trunk rather at my finger tips which the head unit would allow correct?

I have also been trying to find some manuals and what not from rainbow but I haven't been able to find anything. I know the woofer themselves are w-165 euro and then above that they say they are from the SLX line.

My current set up is this:
Hu: jvc lx-1
Speakers: pioneer ts-168a1r and alpine type s
sub amp: RF 225.2
Sub: 15" tc9 sealed

What I am thinking right now is to buy those rainbows and sell a pair the speakers I have now. Then buy an electronic active crossover or save for a hu. I should be getting a cheap 4 channel from a friend, so I have that covered. What do you think of my plan? I am on a really tight budget and with the influx of those cheap tc9's I wouldn't be able to sell my sub right now. How much do you think somebody would pay for my cd player I have now?

Sorry to turn the thread into my system advice topic but I have been tossing around some ideas for awhile and would like some advice.

Thank you for your time and advice,

Darren

MiniVanMan
03-23-2007, 02:40 AM
You can always buy an external active crossover. There are several companies that make them. I've ran a Coustic XM-5e with great success. Memphis makes some good ones. The PPI DCX780 is fantastic unit if you can get your hands on one. The RF 360.2 is also very nice.

Anyway, you can find units from $25.00 on ebay all the up to quadruple digits. All with varying features, and varying levels of complexity. If you just want to do something easy, then just look for an active crossover that has a high pass in the 2000 + range and a low pass in the same.

Here's an example of a unit that will allow you to select the appropriate crossover points, and not break your budget. What it lacks is time alignment and EQ. I've ran the system in my sig with no processing other than my Coustic unit, which is almost identical to the MA unit below, and had great results.

http://cgi.ebay.com/MA-AUDIO-SY3X-3-WAY-ELECTRONIC-HIGI-LOW-MID-CROSSOVER_W0QQitemZ270100979732QQcategoryZ79840QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem