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BonusBobo
01-30-2003, 10:52 PM
How do you do fiberglass boxes? I might want to do a little of that in the future, so I was wondering how that happens and what types of tools, knowledge do I need? Is there a website one of you can link me to that will walk me through the process? Thanks for all the help.

PS: I searched the forums for a while to no avail.

bumpin_8605
01-30-2003, 11:28 PM
man they r a pain in the a$$ to build they look nice when their dine but i wouildnt bother tryin to do one cause for one the materials r way to expensive (5 gal. $50) i watched my cousin do one and he worked at a audio shop for 4yrs i could get some more info for u if u want

BonusBobo
01-31-2003, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by bumpin_8605
man they r a pain in the a$$ to build they look nice when their dine but i wouildnt bother tryin to do one cause for one the materials r way to expensive (5 gal. $50) i watched my cousin do one and he worked at a audio shop for 4yrs i could get some more info for u if u want

Yeah dude, bring it on.

Q45guy
01-31-2003, 06:07 AM
I have a friend that builds boxes (and does custom installs) professionally and can get some fiberglass supplies for ya if you want.

ramos
01-31-2003, 07:56 AM
Actually it's not as hard as eeryone seems to think. It just takes some practice. To practice with glassing go down to your local walmart. And pick up a kit. It's like $10 and comes with some mat and cloth, and polyester resin. Not very much of course. But enough for you to play with so you can understand how it works. Here are a couple of links with some very useful and helpful instructions. :)




http://www.caraudioresources.net
http://www.eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/caraudio.htm


P.S. there is also a very informative thread over at termpro.com in the fabrication forum. It has answers to practicaly every question you could ever want answered. :)

BonusBobo
01-31-2003, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by ramos
Actually it's not as hard as eeryone seems to think. It just takes some practice. To practice with glassing go down to your local walmart. And pick up a kit. It's like $10 and comes with some mat and cloth, and polyester resin. Not very much of course. But enough for you to play with so you can understand how it works. Here are a couple of links with some very useful and helpful instructions. :)




http://www.caraudioresources.net
http://www.eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/caraudio.htm


P.S. there is also a very informative thread over at termpro.com in the fabrication forum. It has answers to practicaly every question you could ever want answered. :)

sweet, thanks ramos and q45 guy. I think I'll do a combination of all the suggestions.... somehow....

ramos
01-31-2003, 12:17 PM
If ya got any questions just let me know. I can try to help you out. It's not really difficult. Just be patient. That's the key. :)

Savant
01-31-2003, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by ramos
If ya got any questions just let me know. I can try to help you out. It's not really difficult. Just be patient. That's the key. :)

Speaking of patient and questions ;)

You have any more info on the deatials of fabric/woven (i think woven is what I mean..)? I haven't seen any more activity on the 'welcome back ramos' thread where you said you were still reading :D

Wondering about sandwiches/composits and strength versus just 3 - 4 layers of fabric (you mentioned double bias.. know where I can look over some inventory for that?)

ramos
01-31-2003, 02:14 PM
Yeah man. check out http://www.fiberglast.com they have very good explanations of the different types and weights of mats. And the uses of each. And they also sell several different composites and woven mats. :)

thegunner
02-01-2003, 04:32 PM
i am also interested in glassing, but i havent really started planning yet, so i will ask questions as they come up

MikeofTulsa
02-01-2003, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by ramos
If ya got any questions just let me know. I can try to help you out. It's not really difficult. Just be patient. That's the key. :)



same here.....if ya got questions i'd be more than happy to help as well.....as for the guy that says its to expensive to do it yourself.....have you every priced getting a fiberglass box made for u???? probably 3x as much as doing it yourself.....

BonusBobo
02-01-2003, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by Goddyd4me
same here.....if ya got questions i'd be more than happy to help as well.....as for the guy that says its to expensive to do it yourself.....have you every priced getting a fiberglass box made for u???? probably 3x as much as doing it yourself.....

Sweet, I'll hook it up with some questions as soon as I make the committment and spend some money on the supplies. You guys are the ****.

spiffy182
02-04-2003, 06:04 PM
so what do you do? make a normal box and tune it to the best Frequency for your sub then frame it to your car? Iam confused about this

mattj
02-04-2003, 06:05 PM
you do not need to frame it to your car...but if it isnt secured down, it will probably slide around.

spiffy182
02-04-2003, 06:09 PM
lol, no i ment in making a custom fiber glass install, do you make a box then frame it how you want it to look then fiber glass it?

Sspider
02-05-2003, 12:48 AM
quick questions, has been buggin me for abit, does the fiberglass stick well to the w0od, i was thinking that the edge where the end of the glass meets the w0od, it would come apart, there causing the while thing to come apart and seperate in two?
please enlighten....

sspider

98greenlude
02-05-2003, 06:41 PM
no sspider fiberglass sticks to **** near EVERYTHING. you would just glass over ur wooden frame making sure u overlap it alot....then just cut the extra off. make sure u cover anything that u dont want to end up throwing away. fiberglass heats up when its mixed with the hardener, so if ur using plastic cups for mixing they will just melt down and be stuck to what ever its on.

ramos
02-06-2003, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by spiffy182
lol, no i ment in making a custom fiber glass install, do you make a box then frame it how you want it to look then fiber glass it?


It really depends on what kind and the shape of the enclosure your making. If your going to make a simple enclosure. I would stick to using MDF. But if you want to build an enclosure that is molded to the sides of your trunk. Then there are a couple of ways to accomplish that.

One method is to make a frame. Then stretch fleece over the frame. Soak it in resin. Then build up the inside with mat and or cloth.

Another is to make a mold. Then lay the mat and or cloth on the mold. Build up a couple of layers. Then remove the mold. And once again build up the thickness.

Then My favorite way if I'm building an enclosure that conforms to the sides of the trunk or something. I like to tape up the area where I plan on putting the enclosure. And the surrounding area to protect it. Then put on a couple of layers of mold release on the tape. Then start laying the mat on the tape. After a couple of layers the piece will be strong enough to remove so you can work on it outside the car.


If you have flat sides or a large flat baffle. I would suggest using MDF for these parts. It's alot easier than trying to get the fiberglass completely flat. :)

ramos
02-06-2003, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by 98greenlude
no sspider fiberglass sticks to **** near EVERYTHING. you would just glass over ur wooden frame making sure u overlap it alot....then just cut the extra off. make sure u cover anything that u dont want to end up throwing away. fiberglass heats up when its mixed with the hardener, so if ur using plastic cups for mixing they will just melt down and be stuck to what ever its on.


I use plastic cups all the time. if your plastic cups are melting. Your mixing the resin to hot.



And yeah manresin sticks to wood/MDF REAL well. And just about anything else that's not completely smooth. :)

Sspider
02-06-2003, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by ramos
I use plastic cups all the time. if your plastic cups are melting. Your mixing the resin to hot.



And yeah manresin sticks to wood/MDF REAL well. And just about anything else that's not completely smooth. :)


alright, thanks a bunch, the sticking part always got me wondering....
i have a golf, so my trunk space is small, i want to make the largest box possible, but keep in mind, i dont want to lose all usability of the trunk...
how do i figure out the volume on not so flat areas..... like the sides of the trunk and areas like that....

sspider

Savant
02-06-2003, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by Sspider
alright, thanks a bunch, the sticking part always got me wondering....
i have a golf, so my trunk space is small, i want to make the largest box possible, but keep in mind, i dont want to lose all usability of the trunk...
how do i figure out the volume on not so flat areas..... like the sides of the trunk and areas like that....

sspider

Mostly guess.. you can try to get as many 'boxes' out of what you have for space, and add them all up.. Or, make the boxes (the real glassed in ones) and fill it up with something like foam peanuts or something and then measure those.. If you have too much volume, you can put stuff in in it to fill the space.. Just make sure that your estimate is 'under' the actual as far as deciding if you can do it.. That is, if your guess (conservative) is 4 cubes, and you need 5, you won't make it.. if you get 4 and need 3.5, you can go big, then fill in..

Or, you can fill the space with foam peanuts without the walls there (tape up plastic where the edges of the outer box will be).. and remove some for the 'walls' and 'seperators' etc.. Or, if you don't mind the stink and potential mess, plastic/tape off the entire space you want to glass in, and fill it with foam spray sealant like Good Stuff (foam spray).. it's sticky and messy and expands a LOT, so be careful if you go that route..

For mine, I did the estimate thing.. and have plenty more space than I need (I thought I'd be lacking).. so I'll go full size then fill..

Good Luck :)

Sspider
02-06-2003, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by Savant
Mostly guess.. you can try to get as many 'boxes' out of what you have for space, and add them all up.. Or, make the boxes (the real glassed in ones) and fill it up with something like foam peanuts or something and then measure those.. If you have too much volume, you can put stuff in in it to fill the space.. Just make sure that your estimate is 'under' the actual as far as deciding if you can do it.. That is, if your guess (conservative) is 4 cubes, and you need 5, you won't make it.. if you get 4 and need 3.5, you can go big, then fill in..

Or, you can fill the space with foam peanuts without the walls there (tape up plastic where the edges of the outer box will be).. and remove some for the 'walls' and 'seperators' etc.. Or, if you don't mind the stink and potential mess, plastic/tape off the entire space you want to glass in, and fill it with foam spray sealant like Good Stuff (foam spray).. it's sticky and messy and expands a LOT, so be careful if you go that route..

For mine, I did the estimate thing.. and have plenty more space than I need (I thought I'd be lacking).. so I'll go full size then fill..

Good Luck :)

i'm gonna need all the space i can spare :greedy: , and gonna need to be as close as possible to the actual volume because i am gonna port around 32-35hz...

sspider

ramos
02-07-2003, 09:01 AM
i use the peanut method myself most of the time. I start with a box completely packed full of peanuts. That way I know the volume of the peanuts before hand. Then I dump as many boxes full as I need to fill the area. :)

Sspider
02-07-2003, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by ramos
i use the peanut method myself most of the time. I start with a box completely packed full of peanuts. That way I know the volume of the peanuts before hand. Then I dump as many boxes full as I need to fill the area. :)


ahhh nutsss, peanuts....
i threw out allllll my peanuts i had from all the shipping boxes, nutss...
gonna do that tho...

thanks yall

sspider

ryan_feine
02-11-2003, 09:12 PM
hey everyone fiberglass stuff is watertight unless you really screwed up thatd be the most acurate way to check volume just make it and fill it up then cut the sides off till its down to what you want then put the mdf on front

ramos
02-12-2003, 08:04 AM
You can use water. I would suggest removing the enclosure from the car first. The only reason I don't use water is the weight. 3 or 4 cuft of water is quite heavy :) I'm a lazy b!tch :D

Sspider
02-12-2003, 11:20 AM
not to mention, dats alot of water that will just end up washing down the driveway....

sspider

Savant
02-12-2003, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by ryan_feine
hey everyone fiberglass stuff is watertight unless you really screwed up thatd be the most acurate way to check volume just make it and fill it up then cut the sides off till its down to what you want then put the mdf on front

And that can only be done AFTER it's built.. if you want to see 'how much of the area' you need to build the box, you have to get an idea of the volume FIRST.. *shrug*

TRANSAMCHARGER
02-13-2003, 01:10 PM
So you make a wood frame, put on streched fleece, lay fiberglass strips of matting on the frame, what is the resign for?

TRANSAMCHARGER
02-13-2003, 01:15 PM
Oh yah how much total would it be to make it for 2 12" subs

ryan_feine
02-13-2003, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by TRANSAMCHARGER
So you make a wood frame, put on streched fleece, lay fiberglass strips of matting on the frame, what is the resign for?
the resin dries and hardens stiffening the fiberglass and making it hard otherwise fiberglass is prettymuch useless except as insulation in your house and maybe a couple other uses

ramos
02-14-2003, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by ryan_feine
the resin dries and hardens stiffening the fiberglass and making it hard otherwise fiberglass is prettymuch useless except as insulation in your house and maybe a couple other uses


You can make some very warm, and Very itchy sweaters. :D

ridered36
02-14-2003, 10:15 PM
I just used fleece material as my mat and just dipped it in the resin. Im just using it for my compnenets and part of my amp rack. Should this material work ok since there isnt alot of pressure on it like you would have on a sub box?

ryan_feine
02-15-2003, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by ridered36
I just used fleece material as my mat and just dipped it in the resin. Im just using it for my compnenets and part of my amp rack. Should this material work ok since there isnt alot of pressure on it like you would have on a sub box?
it might be ok as long as theirs no pressure and not alot of wieght on it otherwise im not sure how strong it would be but as long as theirs not aot of pressure on it it should be fine

Savant
02-15-2003, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by ridered36
I just used fleece material as my mat and just dipped it in the resin. Im just using it for my compnenets and part of my amp rack. Should this material work ok since there isnt alot of pressure on it like you would have on a sub box?

For comps in a kicker you should be fine.. Resin is liquid plastic.. the 'fiberglass' or 'fleece' does 1/2 the structural work, the resin the other (if I recall correctly).. You could actually probably make a mold (from foam or something) and keep dipping it in just resin until you had a stiff (say 1/4 thick?) structure, then find some way to remove the mold (if it's foam, pour some acetate in there?).. that would probably work for kickers.. Not recomended at all, just showing how resin works.. And, it takes a lot of resin to get that thick without filler (glass/fleece)..

Anyway, you should be fine :)

ramos
02-19-2003, 10:43 AM
If it were me I would go ahead and add at least a layer or mat or cloth. The fleece soaked resin is still flexible to some degree. It may not seem that way. But if you were to try to bend it before you add a layer of mat or cloth, then afterwards you would see a big difference. Resin by itself is brittle. The strength fiberglass has comes from both components. One with out the other is weak. If you really don't want to use mat on teh kicks try this. Take some bondo and mix it with resin to a consistency of milkshake. Stir it real good. Then use either of the catylyst. Pour it on the inside of the kicks and move them around so it spreads evenly on the inside of the pod. It won't be as strong as glass. but it will be stronger than just the resin. It will also stiffen the fleece pretty well. You could do the same for the trim panels. But remember these techniques have no where near the strength of mat and cloth. But if all your doing is trim panels you might be able to get by with it.

ryan_feine
02-19-2003, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by ramos
If it were me I would go ahead and add at least a layer or mat or cloth. The fleece soaked resin is still flexible to some degree. It may not seem that way. But if you were to try to bend it before you add a layer of mat or cloth, then afterwards you would see a big difference. Resin by itself is brittle. The strength fiberglass has comes from both components. One with out the other is weak. If you really don't want to use mat on teh kicks try this. Take some bondo and mix it with resin to a consistency of milkshake. Stir it real good. Then use either of the catylyst. Pour it on the inside of the kicks and move them around so it spreads evenly on the inside of the pod. It won't be as strong as glass. but it will be stronger than just the resin. It will also stiffen the fleece pretty well. You could do the same for the trim panels. But remember these techniques have no where near the strength of mat and cloth. But if all your doing is trim panels you might be able to get by with it.
i wouldn't exactly say that glass is weak without resin just isnt stiff I work with it in the summer and if you take rovings and try to pull them apart you never will the mat you can pull apart but thats becuase the strands are pretty short and not all going the same way

ramos
02-20-2003, 06:31 AM
Let me phrase it a different way. Neither mat, cloth, nor resin by themselves come anywhere close to the strength of the mat, or cloth, or both soaked in resin. I have built enclosures for people and driven a car over them to prove the strength. Try doing that with some mat or cloth by itself and see what happens ;)

ryan_feine
02-20-2003, 02:53 PM
that sounds alot better man

ASDF12345
02-22-2003, 02:30 AM
how do i fiberglass?

longest answer ever!

the answer to this could go on FOREVER. there are so many large aspects as well as tiny details youd never think of.

some of the basic stuff though:
use fleece, its the thickest when streched. but only one layer will end up cracking easily. after the fleece dries, do up 4 to 8 layers of fiberglass mat or cloth, i prefer mat. when laying mat or cloth yourll notice that bubbles will form underneath the cloth, at first they are tough to get out but after you practice a little you can work them out by dabbing a brush on them. if you have trouble, buy a fiberglass roller from www.fiberglast.com.

the biggest tip i can give you is, if you dont want fiberglass on something, makesure you cover. even if you think you wont get any on it. let me tell you my horror story. over 100 hours of work making a 3 peice fiberglass setup. box, front trim, and rear trim. i was making it so each peice could be taken out of the car for sanding and painting etc as well as fixing stuff after it was all built. when i was doing some glassing on the front trim panel it was screwed in place to the box, well fiberglass got into the ends of the screws and i could not get the peice apart. i end up using a hatchet to get it out of the car because trying to get the screws out destroyed the box beyond repair. learned a good lesson though.

any more questions please ask. the best way to learn is to look at pictures ofstep by step installs. i good one is on the alpine website.

BonusBobo
02-22-2003, 02:52 AM
Originally posted by Grand AMature
how do i fiberglass?

longest answer ever!

the answer to this could go on FOREVER. there are so many large aspects as well as tiny details youd never think of.

some of the basic stuff though:
use fleece, its the thickest when streched. but only one layer will end up cracking easily. after the fleece dries, do up 4 to 8 layers of fiberglass mat or cloth, i prefer mat. when laying mat or cloth yourll notice that bubbles will form underneath the cloth, at first they are tough to get out but after you practice a little you can work them out by dabbing a brush on them. if you have trouble, buy a fiberglass roller from www.fiberglast.com.

the biggest tip i can give you is, if you dont want fiberglass on something, makesure you cover. even if you think you wont get any on it. let me tell you my horror story. over 100 hours of work making a 3 peice fiberglass setup. box, front trim, and rear trim. i was making it so each peice could be taken out of the car for sanding and painting etc as well as fixing stuff after it was all built. when i was doing some glassing on the front trim panel it was screwed in place to the box, well fiberglass got into the ends of the screws and i could not get the peice apart. i end up using a hatchet to get it out of the car because trying to get the screws out destroyed the box beyond repair. learned a good lesson though.

any more questions please ask. the best way to learn is to look at pictures ofstep by step installs. i good one is on the alpine website.

that was helpful. Thanks a lot man!

ASDF12345
02-23-2003, 07:13 AM
anything else just ask.....butpictures are worth 1000 words

BonusBobo
02-23-2003, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by Grand AMature
anything else just ask.....butpictures are worth 1000 words

indeed they are.