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nismos14
03-05-2007, 11:05 AM
2 questions, how can I mute the HIGH or MID or LOW in network mode with this unit?

Also I beleive this is correct but you can independantly control the phase of each driver in the system correct?

CAMSHAFT
03-05-2007, 12:57 PM
NO and NO..... JK I am trying to get the manual for it on the PIO site.....

hardhitta47
03-05-2007, 01:17 PM
the manual says:

1) "Use MULTI-CONTROL to select F.HPF 1 (or R.HPF 1).

2) Push and hold MULTI-CONTROL down to mute the selected speaker unit (filter).

To cancel muting, push MULTI-CONTROL up.

Not sure about switching phase for each individual driver though. When you're in the mode where you select the crossover slopes, up and down switches phase. Maybe if you hold in multi-control it will switch to independent L/R, but I'm not sure on this. It works that way for the eq though.

nismos14
03-05-2007, 03:26 PM
Thanks alot!! But I don't think that works for network mode....

hardhitta47
03-05-2007, 04:38 PM
Actually, the part of the manual I took that from was for in network mode. I think it's the NW3 menu. I'm not running active yet, so I haven't used network mode.

It should work though. I think it's the menu where you adjust the xover slopes by moving the knob left and right. To mute your tweets (front/high) for example, you'll go to your high/low pass filter menu where you can adjust the slopes left and right, and hold the multi-control knob DOWN, not in, but down. That should work. If not, maybe try holding it in. You'll figure it out. Just play with it. You can dl the manual off Pioneer's site in pdf form.

Flipx99
03-05-2007, 04:41 PM
Do you get any speaker-level power from the HU in network mode?

nismos14
03-05-2007, 05:58 PM
I think you can but I thnk its all full range.. but I don't know...

Anyways I figured out how to mute, from the menu where you select low pass, high pass mid, low pass mid, or high pass high if you press and hold down it will mute

hardhitta47
03-05-2007, 11:26 PM
Do you get any speaker-level power from the HU in network mode?

Network mode is to be used for active 3-way (2-way + sub) setup. It's recommended that the internal amp be turned off, especially in network mode. Cleaner signal to your amps.

Flipx99
03-05-2007, 11:51 PM
But you could do it to power a midrange....

Put a small -6db filter inline and bam 3way frontstage (2way active) for teh cheap

nismos14
03-06-2007, 08:10 AM
Not really because the tweeters and sub would then be way too powerful in comparison to the midrange. You'd also need multiple filters as this is no where near a set it and forget type application. You have to constantly mess around with the settings to ensure you get the best sound... sometimes that also means increasing one set of speakers vs another you can't do that with just HU power.

Flipx99
03-06-2007, 08:49 AM
I was thinking about that, not so much the power aspect as all the pieces will end up getting about the same amount of power, but it would be hard as well to tame a small midrange, and this way I couldn't really. I don't even think I could eq it.

nismos14
03-06-2007, 08:57 AM
Not without adding capacitors in line to attenuate, and even then you'd have to mess aroudn with what sounds the best lol. Just easier to have 6 channels for midbass midrange and tweet. The xover on my xxk's is versatile enough to run that sort of setup :)

Flipx99
03-06-2007, 09:29 AM
I mentioned putting in a small filter.

running 3way active with two amps is a difficult task to say the least.

nismos14
03-06-2007, 10:04 AM
2 amps would be enough if you have a big 4 channel and a medium 4 channel. Either way it would be nice...

Flipx99
03-06-2007, 10:13 AM
More difficult to find than you would imagine.

It looks like I might have to take the digital designs route but I don't really want to. No one else makes a comparable product for less.

nismos14
03-06-2007, 10:16 AM
I don't know.... a 4150 xxk and a 4050xxk could get it done realistically. When you run active you don't need gobs and gobs of power necessarily. A 4150 running 85x2 to the midbass 320x1 to the substage, and a 4050 running 45 x 4 to the tweets and midrange would be plenty imo.

CAMSHAFT
03-06-2007, 03:21 PM
or two 2500XXK and a 4150xxxk

or two 2150SE and two 2300SE

:)

nismos14
03-06-2007, 03:28 PM
Mmmm Arc amplifiers...... :)

CAMSHAFT
03-06-2007, 03:44 PM
Yes sir!!

Flipx99
03-07-2007, 11:50 AM
Correctly splitting the signal becomes the issue

nismos14
03-07-2007, 11:53 AM
Yea gotta get a processor :(

Flipx99
03-07-2007, 11:55 AM
I still think it is possible if I split the "HIGH" signal between a 2" dome and a tweeter. The main issue becomes getting the amp to bandpass the midrange.

It's easily done on paper, just not cheaply done.

nismos14
03-07-2007, 12:01 PM
You could end up with overlap.. if the HU is highpassing the tweet and midrange then they will see the same freq highpassed, the issue then becomes the tolerances all change because you'd be running them in parallel off the output.. (I assume?) then all the capacities change for the in line hpf's/lpf's..

Flipx99
03-07-2007, 12:11 PM
Care to explain further?

Maybe I am thinking about it too simply

If you cross the tweeter a 1.25k (the 880s lowest setting) and split that signal to a 4 channel amp.

On two channels you would bandpass at say 1.25k and 3k
On the other two, you would HPF at say 3k

The problem with my method is that you don't gain very much and it only assists from 1.25 - 3k, and I could fix that with an EQ.

Another possibility (if the midbass/midrange are close [within a couple inches]) is to split the midbass signal between the midbass/midrange. Lowpass the MID signal at 80Hz (from HU) and then highpass at 3.1k (from HU). Use the crossovers on the amp to highpass at say 500 Hz. Bandpass the midrange 600 - 3.1k

nismos14
03-07-2007, 12:24 PM
Care to explain further?

Maybe I am thinking about it too simply

If you cross the tweeter a 1.25k (the 880s lowest setting) and split that signal to a 4 channel amp.

On two channels you would bandpass at say 1.25k and 3k
On the other two, you would HPF at say 3k

The problem with my method is that you don't gain very much and it only assists from 1.25 - 3k, and I could fix that with an EQ.

Another possibility (if the midbass/midrange are close [within a couple inches]) is to split the midbass signal between the midbass/midrange. Lowpass the MID signal at 80Hz (from HU) and then highpass at 3.1k (from HU). Use the crossovers on the amp to highpass at say 500 Hz. Bandpass the midrange 600 - 3.1k

Maybe I'm confused, are you going to be running 2 amps for the 3 way set-up?

Your 2nd method seems to be more logical to me as the midbass would be good to probably around the 500 mark, then you can run the midrange from 600 + to 3k..... The only issue I'm seeing here is that you are going to run into issues when you wanna change the crossover settings, the active setup is by no means a set it and forget it type of crossover

Flipx99
03-07-2007, 01:40 PM
2 four channel amps.

I understand you lose some flexibility, but also save some funds in the process.

CAMSHAFT
03-07-2007, 01:49 PM
If you were to do the two 4 channel design, I would do it in a Dual Mono set up.

nismos14
03-07-2007, 01:50 PM
Do you know what amps? And what type of xovers they will have? Seems like you can definately accompish what you want with your plans.

Flipx99
03-07-2007, 02:24 PM
Depends....

The digital design c4 + s4 is the best combo (I like matching amps)

The c4a does 100x4@4ohms, so that can handle the midrange and tweets
The s4 does 100x2@4ohms and then 200x2@4ohms. However, the rear channels can bridged to do 700@1 ohm.

According to the link, I should be able to bandpass that midbass with the c4 to make it work correct.

http://www.ddaudio.com/dd/amp/amp.asp?series=S
http://www.ddaudio.com/dd/amp/amp.asp?series=C

Flipx99
03-07-2007, 02:24 PM
If you were to do the two 4 channel design, I would do it in a Dual Mono set up.

care to explain?

Flipx99
03-07-2007, 02:25 PM
btw, sorry I drug your thread OT nismo

nismos14
03-07-2007, 02:35 PM
Oh I don't mind, I already figured out my answers :)

nismos14
03-07-2007, 02:38 PM
Depends....

The digital design c4 + s4 is the best combo (I like matching amps)

The c4a does 100x4@4ohms, so that can handle the midrange and tweets
The s4 does 100x2@4ohms and then 200x2@4ohms. However, the rear channels can bridged to do 700@1 ohm.

According to the link, I should be able to bandpass that midbass with the c4 to make it work correct.

http://www.ddaudio.com/dd/amp/amp.asp?series=S
http://www.ddaudio.com/dd/amp/amp.asp?series=C

Looks good, it seems like you'd be in good shape with that setup... but it might be easier to get more flexibility with something like the PPI DCX-730 along with those amps.....

Flipx99
03-07-2007, 02:38 PM
I just need a small dome mid. It is a toss up between the DLS, Dyn, and the Usher. Usher is winning at the depth and price category.

nismos14
03-07-2007, 02:46 PM
Oo but the dls looks soooooooooooooo sweet :)

CAMSHAFT
03-07-2007, 04:31 PM
care to explain?

AMP #1 Left side Mid and tweet on first two channels and bridge the other two channels for the midbass.
AMP #2 Right side Mid and tweet on first two channels and bridge the other two channels for the midbass.

nismos14
03-07-2007, 04:36 PM
Ah so then he'd need 3 amps? ... an additional amp for subwoofers... makes sense though because then he can run the 3 way active from the hu, and use a pass through if available from the amps to his mono amp........

Flipx99
03-07-2007, 04:43 PM
AMP #1 Left side Mid and tweet on first two channels and bridge the other two channels for the midbass.
AMP #2 Right side Mid and tweet on first two channels and bridge the other two channels for the midbass.

Are you saying this:

Left Channel 1 goes to left tweet
Left Channel 2 goes to left midrange

Bridge channels 3 and 4 to for midbass?

Like Nismo said, it would require 3 amps.