PDA

View Full Version : Blind Shootout SACD vs. 8 Redbook CD Players



thylantyr
01-19-2007, 01:47 PM
Funny, dated 2004.

DVD Player mods
http://www.tweakaudio.com/Panasonic%20DVD%20player%20mods.html

Perhaps you saw the shootout on AudioAsylum where a $85 Panasonic DVD player beat a bunch of players...some costing as much as $10,000.

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=hirez&n=168630&highlight=blind+shootout&session=

The sequence of players was completely random. I also randomly selected which of the players went first so as to avoid the "everyone prefers the second player" effect. The winner was chosen by a show of hands. There were only two times when the vote was close enough that we did a second playthrough. All other shootouts resulted in a clear majority for one of the players.

From loser to winner, here's how it went:

10. Pioneer Elite DV-09 ($2200 new)
8. 47 Labs Flatfish with battery power supply and Progression DAC ($10,000)
7. Classe (can't remember the model, but older model) $3,000 or so
6. Audio Research CD-3 $5,000 or so
5. Sony DVP9000ES playing as redbook CD player $1,500
4. Meridian 588 (don't know the price)
3. Panasonic (can't remember the model number) $85
2. Sony DVP9000ES playing as an SACD player $1,500
1. Cary 306/200 $5,000



My comments:

* It's not even a level matched shootout, just out of the box - plug it in shootout.
* CD vs. SACD is not really 'apples to apples' testing, but interesting nonetheless.
* Because it's not level matched, the results indicate that the $85 player has
the potential to sound the same as the #1 and #2 players because the $85
player ranked higher than the other players it beat in the $1500 -$10,000 price
range.

Bottom line. Save your money and buy low cost players and put the savings
into something worthy of audible improvement. harr harr :laugh:

joetama
01-19-2007, 02:18 PM
Proves the point that to most people there isn't a difference between their ears and the hole, well in the ***....

Ever consider that a lot of people with an untrained ear (most people don't, even if they think they do) think an extra amount of revieling detail sounds bad?

I have seen this happen a lot...

thylantyr
01-19-2007, 03:25 PM
Ever consider that a lot of people with an untrained ear

What do people use to train their ears?

* Bowflex
* Winsor pilates
* John Basedow's fitness made simple
* Diet pills
* Jenny Craig
* Barroids[tm]

Golden ear folks have participated in so many ABX tests and failed. Their ego's
shattered.

This link I posted isn't even a level matched ABX test, it's just 'out of the box' switched,
yet they formed a conclusion that the $85 player was just as good as players costing up
to $10k.

:crazy:

T3mpest
01-19-2007, 10:27 PM
without level matching the test was probably more a test of volume than anything else. Things that are louder usually sound better.

jmanpc
01-19-2007, 11:35 PM
Proves the point that to most people there isn't a difference between their ears and the hole, well in the ***....

Ever consider that a lot of people with an untrained ear (most people don't, even if they think they do) think an extra amount of revieling detail sounds bad?

I have seen this happen a lot...

those are the same people who like bose.

ngsm13
01-20-2007, 12:02 AM
Lawl.

nG

desertheat
01-20-2007, 12:04 AM
hahaha. Well without level mathing I cannot say much for this test.. but I bet if it was level matched and there was a room of 20 self proclaimed super ears, bet it would be close anyways hahaha. I LOVE it when the great golden ears get proven wrong big time. I pulled one off on a nut job that was trying to sell these little stupid stands to set under the feet of home cd players $160 per set". He swore "if I knew anything about audio, I could hear the difference" I pulled a nice crisp $50 bill out of my wallet and bet him he could not tell which feet if any I put under the nice krell cd player. He turned rather red faced and declined saying "it would be hard to tell in the bad acoustics of the store" hahaha what a nerd.

adam71
01-20-2007, 12:21 PM
Thylantyr. Why won't you give up this crusade on proving that everything that costs a little money is worthless? I don't understand how this stupid test proves anything. I mean, what matters to a consumer is what sounds good in their home. Not a show room or test room. In MY system in MY listening room/home theater I can tell a major difference between CD, SACD and DVD-Audio 2 channel. Regardless of why this is easy for me is irrelevant to be honest. Even B & W_EE said he has tough time telling the difference between CD and SACD in his system. That is his ears. He has a HIGH dollar CD player and a universal player for playing SACDs. If he had a dedicated SACD player he might tell a difference between the 2. Who knows?

thylantyr
01-20-2007, 12:37 PM
Thylantyr. Why won't you give up this crusade

....... because I think I have a chance to be in the new George Lucas movie,
the next Raiders of the Lost Ark flick... where Harrison Ford burrows a tunnel deep
in Nazi territory looking for the Golden ABX Time Machine ...... where you can compare
fantasy with the real world to figure out which is which...:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

****

I was googling something and that link came up. I read it and found it to be
funny so I posted it here. Then I made some comments about it. It's up to you
to decide if that test has value, I don't care. lol ...

ngsm13
01-20-2007, 03:13 PM
:rolleyes:

nG

joetama
01-20-2007, 03:41 PM
Even B & W_EE said he has tough time telling the difference between CD and SACD in his system. That is his ears. He has a HIGH dollar CD player and a universal player for playing SACDs. If he had a dedicated SACD player he might tell a difference between the 2. Who knows?

Well see they both are high dollar but the CD player is more high dollar than the SACD/DVD-Audio player.... Maybe it's because on the CD Player I have Nordost Cables and on the SACD player I don't... ;)


:rolleyes:

nG


Indeed.... I'm getting sick of these one way bash threads towards anything that some people can't afford...

thylantyr
01-20-2007, 04:25 PM
Indeed.... I'm getting sick of these one way bash threads towards anything that some people can't afford...

:rolleyes:

My work in progress audio project cost more than your 'King of the home audio section....' list of equipment. :laugh:

I'm sure I've spent more money in audio than the sum of everyone on this home
audio forum.

The issue isn't about affording expensive gear or who is the King of the home
audio section like your sig claims, the issue is about spending the money wisely. :laugh:

There are many folks who think they are missing the boat because they can't afford the $10,000 player,
but in reality, there is no boat to be missed.

joetama
01-20-2007, 04:39 PM
I think you missed the boat and are bitter about it... ;)

If you spent that bloody much you should have a lot more to show for it than some crappy looking DIY line arrays (which you preech to be so cheap) and some PA amps....

ngsm13
01-20-2007, 04:42 PM
Lawl, no ****.

I actually chuckled.

nG

Beat_Dominator
01-20-2007, 04:46 PM
Good lord. Not another one of these threads!

joetama
01-20-2007, 04:48 PM
Lawl, no ****.

I actually chuckled.

nG

Some people are so far behind in the race they think they are in the lead......

adam71
01-20-2007, 04:54 PM
Well see they both are high dollar but the CD player is more high dollar than the SACD/DVD-Audio player.... Maybe it's because on the CD Player I have Nordost Cables and on the SACD player I don't... ;)


Oh I see. I was under the impression that you were running the same cables. :)

joetama
01-20-2007, 04:59 PM
Oh I see. I was under the impression that you were running the same cables. :)

Nope..... I actually am using 3 pairs of cables for that player, and well they are all different types... LOL...

thylantyr
01-20-2007, 06:54 PM
If you spent that bloody much you should have a lot more to show for it than some crappy looking DIY line arrays (which you preech to be so cheap) and some PA amps....

The budget line array was a project I made for my friend, it's not a project
that I claimed as mine. I just happen to have possession of it until he can afford
to pay for it and it's cranking tunes being used in the mean time.

You don't understand amplifier or speaker design so why argue about the
pro amps are a great solution to a problem.

If you were here for the past 23 years, there would have been plenty to show you :laugh:

joetama
01-20-2007, 07:03 PM
The budget line array was a project I made for my friend, it's not a project
that I claimed as mine. I just happen to have possession of it until he can afford
to pay for it and it's cranking tunes being used in the mean time.

You don't understand amplifier or speaker design so why argue about the
pro amps are a great solution to a problem.

If you were here for the past 23 years, there would have been plenty to show you :laugh:

OK, I guess I'm just a n00bxcube....


There is nothing wrong with using pro-amps nothing at all. QSC are great amps, I would say better than a lot of home audio amps.

Have you designed your own amps too? That bold statement doesn't even make sense....

I'm sure over 23 years you have gone through a lot of stuff.

What are we even arguing about anymore?

thylantyr
01-20-2007, 07:39 PM
Every time I post something interesting, you assume that I'm anti-dollar, ie..
don't spend big money on audio :laugh: Cheap stuff rules... :p:

If you really knew me, you'd know that my audio habits are pretty
hardcore, I've spent alot of money on projects over the last 23 years.
Many are temp projects to learn.

But I don't recommend spending big money on other things in audio chain,
the money is better spent elsewhere. You can disagree which is fine by me,
but don't assume that I can't afford expensive gear, lol ... .
One old school project 'Voice Blaster', cost me at least $20k. A project where
you design and *try* to take a product to market with no help from others.

I've designed many circuits, audio and not. I've modded existing circuits, etc.
The last home amp project I worked on, I finished the mods and did PCB
layout. A prototype was needed to verify performance. But, to execute
the project and to build many professional looking home amps, I'd need
about $10k to get bulk order parts. With a $10k budget, it was just easier to get
used proamps. Unlike many delusional designers, I won't make SQ claims on
electronic circuits if they are executed well. If you follow some of those
people, they make way too many outrageous claims which are really placebo effect.