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KotnmthKng
01-14-2007, 05:56 PM
I have a 97 Mustang Cobra convertible with the Mach 460. The speaker sizes are 6x8 in the door, with 2.5 inch tweets, and 5.25 rear with separate 2.5 inch tweets. Im looking for good set of components for the front and back. I am by no means an audiophile, but I am looking for good SQ. I want something that will be loud enough to hear it good with the top down on the freeway, without needing an amp. I mostly listen to rock and rap, but if it makes a big difference on speakers I would go with rap. My first system I had was in an 88 hatchback Mustang with Kenwood Exelon all around and I was very happy with it. I was also looking at the JL XR series after my friend recommended them. But if theres something better out there around the same price as these two Id like to find out. Im looking to spend $500 or less for both sets.

Thanks guys.

Frankensuby
01-14-2007, 06:42 PM
Question, what are the specs on your stock system output? Preferably by channel.

That way, we can recommend a component set that fits your power needs perfectly. It can easily be done under 500$. For loudness, you want to try and get a component set that has 90+ sensitivity.

Anyways, please, try to find out your system's specifications.

Frankensuby
01-14-2007, 06:46 PM
Mach 460 Soundystem:
Technical Specifications
One high-pass amplifier with 60 watts C.A.P./120 watts peak power at 2 percent total harmonic distortion
Two low-pass subwoofer amplifiers with 85 watts C.A.P./170 watts peak power
Four 5.5 inch x 7.5 inch subwoofers
Two rear-seat woofers
Two front-door woofers
Four 2.5 inch midrange/tweeters
Works with existing factory head unit

I'm confused as to where they are powering 4 woofers and 4 tweeters with 3 amps. I need to do some more research.

KotnmthKng
01-14-2007, 06:55 PM
From what Ive read the Mach 460 is set up really odd. I am replacing everything though. Im getting a new head unit and ditching the factory amps. The HU Im looking at is the Kenwood KDC-X990



This is the website I got all my info from on the Mach 460 system

http://www.flemworld.com/Mach460/Mach.html

Frankensuby
01-14-2007, 07:06 PM
Ya, I'd ditch the amps. A THD of 2% is pretty ugly these days.

I'd say 2 - 2 channel amps, probably want about 50-75 RMS by each @ 4 ohms, with a S/N of 100db and a THD of less than .03%. That would cover a good 2 sets of mids and tweeters.
With what I am reading, you can just substitute everything where it sits. Set the 2 amps in the same place, etc...

Let's see, you need
4 - 2.5" high frequency drivers
2 - 5.5x7.5" midranges
2 - 5.25 Midranges

And I don't know if your looking for a sub or not.

2.5" tweeters... haha that is a big one to replace.

KotnmthKng
01-14-2007, 07:14 PM
I'd like to do it without amps, for now at least. I'll be doing 1 sub at the same time, JL 12w6v2 in a sealed box. As for the 2.5" tweets, Im just going to have those replaced with whatever is in the component set, 3/4" or 1"

Frankensuby
01-14-2007, 08:32 PM
Unfortunately, I don't think you can just 'ditch' the amps. You either need the stockers or to get new ones. What I'd do is keep the stockers until you are ready for the aftermatket ones.

The reason why I don't believe you can just ditch the amps, is that your head unit was designed to run signal to the external amps before it went to the speakers. I doubt there is existing wires to run straight from the deck to the speakers like in most normal car audio systems. I could be wrong, as I do not own or have worked with this system, but normally this is the case with your type of system.

Ya, I cannot find any 2.5" speakers or tweeters that are not in a home audio system haha.


My system would be as follows:
Front 5.5x7.5 components = Infinity Reference 6810cs (90 RMS) Components (150$)
Rear 5.25" components = Polk DB5250 (100 RMS) Components (170$)
Front Amp = Power Acoustik A520-2HP (100 RMS @ 4ohms x 2) (100$)
Rear amp = Power Acoustik A520-2HP (100 RMS @ 4ohms x 2) (100$)

Total = 520$ altogether shipped. A bit above your budget, but you will get 100x better results.

The other problem is how the signal is sent from the deck to your stock amplifiers. Most aftermarket amps do not accept speaker wire signal, they use low level inputs known as RCA's.

If this is the case, I only know of Power Acoustik having this sort of input style, and I'm not sure how many of their amps even have that ability.

Edit: remodeling :)

KotnmthKng
01-14-2007, 08:35 PM
Sorry should have mentioned it will be getting all new wiring also

Frankensuby
01-14-2007, 08:53 PM
Sorry should have mentioned it will be getting all new wiring also

Where is the wiring going in? I'd be interested to know if the deck can support straight to speaker power. It could be a 'deadhead', or a deck without internal amplification, because it sends the signal to the external amplifiers.

Are you a member at a Mustang forum? If so, I'd ask about the deck.

Edit:It says the front amp (directly under the deck) powers the tweeters and sends the signal to the rear deck amplifiers. So I'm confident in saying that your deck is a deadhead. You're going to use the stock 460 deck, right?

KotnmthKng
01-14-2007, 09:09 PM
No im getting the Kenwood KDC-X990

KotnmthKng
01-15-2007, 12:24 AM
What about the CDT speakers? I never heard of them before but I see a lot of people talking about them here.

PremierAudio
01-15-2007, 11:58 AM
If you had an amp, you could get two sets of CDT Hd-52s for under 500.00

KotnmthKng
01-16-2007, 04:04 PM
Frankensuby, since I'll be getting a new deck and new wiring, would you still reccommend the same thing? Im not against running the amps, I just didnt think it could be done that cheap.

Frankensuby
01-16-2007, 07:26 PM
The amps I suggested aren't my favorites, but my experience with Power Acoustik leads me to believe they are decent, just not greatly built. Basically, the way to approach Power Acoustik products is this: If it says 125 watts RMS, it really is only 100 watts RMS, and so on. Only an RMS meter can tell you the truth though.

I'd rather have gone with the Pioneers I showed you earlier. They are a tad more expensive, but I'd trust them 100% more and they had better stats. They are probably a bit more bulky though.

But yes, my entire current audio system was alot of bargain shopping, I like to find flatline prices on stuff. Paying off a new car, insurance, engagements rings, etc. tends to make a person frugal with their funds ;)

As for the wiring, you can sort of save a bit of time and money by running signal straight to the amps instead of running wire to each door. If you wire from the deck to the doors, and then decide to run amps later, it's just doubling your chores in the long run. The speakers I suggested sound best off of amps, with their rated power. The reason i suggested those amps were also because they look identical, and similar to your stock amps (in looks atleast). That way you can install them symetrically and it'll look nice and clean.

KotnmthKng
01-16-2007, 09:01 PM
So you would recommend those speakers with the pioneer amps then? What was the part number for the amps again? What would be the best place to get everything from?

KotnmthKng
01-16-2007, 09:22 PM
what about one of these amps?

Pioneer
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=5163

Kenwood
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2493

Frankensuby
01-16-2007, 09:38 PM
I cannot seem to find the amp I originally was speaking of. It was roughly 115$ after shipping each though.

If your willing to spend the money, I'd say go for a Phoenix Gold Xenon 100.4 for your speakers, and then you would eliminate some shipping costs and room used. Probably 225$ after shipping, so that's only 25$ more. Just look up the name and read some reviews, people love these things. They are underrated on the spec sheets, so you get more for your $$$

As far as where to get them from, sometimes there are amps in the forums, sometimes E-bay has good deals, and sometimes you have to find online retailers. I like to use a site millionbuy.com when I buy BNIB, they've only been good to me. E-bay has some deals and if you buy from a reputable name on there (store would be your best bet) you shouldn't have any issues.

When I get home I'll rework the pricing for you if you want a single amp setup. If not, I'll rework the 2 amp setup too. Work limits my searching ability (freaking firewall haha)

KotnmthKng
01-16-2007, 09:52 PM
As far as 1 or 2 amp setup, which ever would be better I guess. See what you can do with $700. I want loud SQ, and I dont want to be disapointed with what I get. Id rather spend a little more now then a lot more later to upgrade. This is a convertible so I want it to still be loud with the top down doing 70 :peace:

For the sub I have decieded on 1 JL 12w6v2 and a JL 500/1.

Thanks a lot for helping me out.

Frankensuby
01-17-2007, 12:26 AM
Is the 700$ including the sub and amp?

This is the build I'd go with(700$):

PG Xenon 100.4 = 222$ shipped(Flatrate, E-bay = Indoaudio)
Polk MOMO 6500 = 190$ Shipped (E-bay = stereosource)
Polk MOMO 5250 = 170$ shipped (E-bay = stereosource)

Total with shipping = 582$, assuming that 700$ didn't include the sub and amp, and deck.

That will give you great midbass response, crystal clear and smooth tweeters, and some room to spare. If you feel the need for more power, there are other options, but the next size up Xenon is 200.4. That 100.4 should probably bench around 110 watts RMS per channel or so. In fact, I wish I'd have bought this system. I spent nearly the same on a much crappier system :(

Frankensuby
01-17-2007, 12:31 AM
From Sounddomain.com
phoenix gold xenon 100.4 400w rated birth= 444w
Thread (last post) : http://forum.sounddomain.com/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=043686;p=

KotnmthKng
01-17-2007, 10:29 AM
Thanks again. Yeah, I meant $700 for interior speakers/amps. Those polk speakers look good, except I need an 6x8/5x7 for my frontstage. Could the 6.5" fit relatively easy? Or would it be better to go with something that is the right size?

mlstrass
01-17-2007, 03:27 PM
6.5" will fit that opening with an adapter plate.

If looking to save a few more $$$ I'd recommend the Profile AP1040 amp at millionbuy. Solid amp for under $100....

Frankensuby
01-17-2007, 03:29 PM
Thanks again. Yeah, I meant $700 for interior speakers/amps. Those polk speakers look good, except I need an 6x8/5x7 for my frontstage. Could the 6.5" fit relatively easy? Or would it be better to go with something that is the right size?

Crap, I completely forgot haha, sorry. I'm in a rush to get to work, and I work late tonight, so I won't be able to post anything I don't think. If I do, it'll be around 1 in the morning or so.

Sorry bout that :crap:

Just look around on E-bay, woofersetc.com, millionbuy.com, sonic electronix, indo audio, etc.... for the 5x7/6x8 (theyt seem to group them together).

I gotta go, just remember to look for something that can handle 1oo+ watts, and is a fairly known name. Audiobahn doesn't count either ;)

KotnmthKng
01-17-2007, 06:49 PM
Im reading more and more on here and I see that a lot of people dont even use rear speakers. However in my car the rears are right behind the front seats. If I do get rear speakers do I need amped comps or would coaxials ran of the HU be fine?

Frankensuby
01-18-2007, 01:07 AM
Im reading more and more on here and I see that a lot of people dont even use rear speakers. However in my car the rears are right behind the front seats. If I do get rear speakers do I need amped comps or would coaxials ran of the HU be fine?

It is really subjective. With the power your front speakers will be recieving, I'd say you'll need atleast 60 RMS going to the rears. A good coaxial would work fine I believe.

Are those rear speakers aimed at the seats from behind?

Either way, you can run the rear off of deck power, but it would be better to get good coaxials atleast and then just turn the amp down on the rear.

The reason why many do not use the rear speakers is because of soundstage. I prefer the extra fill and midbass, but I also turned down my rear channels a tad so that the music sounds balanced.

Also, It is easier to go with 6.5" for the fronstage, solely because of choice. There are few components in that size, and even fewer of great quality. An adapter would be easy to make, and with a little tweaking, you could just cut and glue/seal an adaptor into the stock speaker housing, assuming I saw correctly and the speakers go into an enclosure.

And another thing, If you want to save cash, and are willing to keep the gains down on the rear stage, you get get a set of Phoenix Gold Octane ZR components for dirt cheap. They handle 75 RMS and run 100$ shipped at most.

Frankensuby
01-18-2007, 01:24 AM
In fact, I would jump all over these (http://cgi.ebay.com/PHOENIX-GOLD-X5-0-XENON-5-25-COMPONENT-SYSTEM-NEW_W0QQitemZ290071495527QQihZ019QQcategoryZ32818Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) for your rear fill! Cheap, will easily handle what you throw at it, and a dependable driver. If I needed some strong midbasses, I'd buy those.

You could turn the tweeters all the way down on those and just let the midbass hammer away, so as to not detract from your fronstage alot. heck, you could filter the rearstage so It even takes less away. You have plenty of tuning options available. Hell, I might grab a set for the midbass drivers alone!

KotnmthKng
01-18-2007, 12:23 PM
Is the 700$ including the sub and amp?

This is the build I'd go with(700$):

PG Xenon 100.4 = 222$ shipped(Flatrate, E-bay = Indoaudio)
Polk MOMO 6500 = 190$ Shipped (E-bay = stereosource)
Polk MOMO 5250 = 170$ shipped (E-bay = stereosource)

Total with shipping = 582$, assuming that 700$ didn't include the sub and amp, and deck.

That will give you great midbass response, crystal clear and smooth tweeters, and some room to spare. If you feel the need for more power, there are other options, but the next size up Xenon is 200.4. That 100.4 should probably bench around 110 watts RMS per channel or so. In fact, I wish I'd have bought this system. I spent nearly the same on a much crappier system :(

Right now I'm think of going with this setup. Now, would the amp being running 4 channels 1 to each crossover at 100 watts each? Or would it be better to bridge it and run 2 channels front and rear at 200 watts each? Then I could run 125 watts to the front and 100 to the rear.

Frankensuby
01-18-2007, 02:43 PM
As stated, the PG will probably be closer to atleast 110 per channel, so that's plenty of ear abusing power. If you want 200 to play with, just get the 200.4 haha.

Bridging the amp would only allow you to run 2 channels to the front, I can't think of how it would work any other way. Also, I was reading up on some bench sheets, and I'm seeing that specs on the Xenon are actually alot better, with S/N's that are spec'ed at 100 DB, are actually as high as 115.

coolguy448
01-19-2007, 10:41 PM
also if you're running the cheaper comp set in the rear you can go with an even nicer front set :) maybe try that new premier set out http://cgi.ebay.com/Pioneer-Premier-TS-C720PRS-63-4-Component-Speakers-6-75_W0QQitemZ290074272195QQihZ019QQcategoryZ18800QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

(im not much on polks for some reason, thats my ears though)

the phoenix gold amp is good stuff though. +1 on that

KotnmthKng
01-21-2007, 01:50 PM
Well I had a chance to listen to some speakers yesterday at Tweeter. They had the Polk Momos, Focal 165a1's set up in the same room. I liked the Focals better. The ones I found online were 165v2s the 130H 5.25s for the back. They are rated 75 and 60 rms respectivly.

They also had JL ZR's, they are expensive, but they sound awesome.

I am also thinking about the Rainbow SLC line. They have both 6.5 and 5x7's. What are the pros and cons of each size. The 5x7's will fit without modifcation, any reason I should still do 6.5s?

They also have a 5.25 midrange. This seems like a pretty good setup since I have heard a lot of good things about rainbow, however I havent heard any myself