PDA

View Full Version : 3way vs 2way



seth350
01-10-2007, 05:57 PM
What difference does having that extra 4" driver make?

I saw where steve meade has a 3 way setup in his tahoe and I was going to do mine close to the same way with the 4s and tweet in the a-pillar.
Reason why I looked into a 3way system is b/c I thought it may give my front stage more output to kinda keep up with my SX18. I had looked at some JL Audio 3ways and I liked those but pretty pricey of course.

I was just curious to how much better it makes it all sound, if any at all.
If it is better staging then maybe someone can point me to a good set of 3ways.

Thanks to anyone who replies

alphakenny1
01-10-2007, 06:03 PM
3 way gives you the ability to put the midranges in the kicks (the midrange is where most meat of the music is coming from) and hence reducing the path length difference hence a better focused image and deeper staging. i'd recommend it if you can do it. as far as good 3 way components, i'm sure you can do a quick search and find something people like.

bimma85
01-10-2007, 06:09 PM
this is in a sticky :fyi: you've been around long enough to know that ;)

seth350
01-10-2007, 06:14 PM
this is in a sticky :fyi: you've been around long enough to know that ;)

Thanks Kenny :)

And sorry bimma, my memory has been real bad lately. thinkin about going to the doctor b/c i dont remember waking up this morning :crap:

anywho, thanks guys :)

seth350
01-10-2007, 06:24 PM
I found the sticky and read it.

Seems to me since I got the room to do it, I will probably do a 3way install.
And as you were saying kenny and the sticky, its best to mount them together (ie:mid bass in door, mid and tweet in kick)
I wouldn't mind doing that if I wasn't 6'5 and had a 16 size shoe. Im very nervous about a kickpanel install for fear of my big foot kicking them or someone else kicking them. Which is why I liked steve meades idea with putting the 4s and tweets in the a-pillar.
By doing that, would I really be sacrificing signifcant sq and staging?

bimma85
01-10-2007, 06:25 PM
I found the sticky and read it.

Seems to me since I got the room to do it, I will probably do a 3way install.
And as you were saying kenny and the sticky, its best to mount them together (ie:mid bass in door, mid and tweet in kick)
I wouldn't mind doing that if I wasn't 6'5 and had a 16 size shoe. Im very nervous about a kickpanel install for fear of my big foot kicking them or someone else kicking them. Which is why I liked steve meades idea with putting the 4s and tweets in the a-pillar.
By doing that, would I really be sacrificing signifcant sq and staging?

It takes a lot more than room to have a nice 3 way setup ;). As for the memory...quit hanging out with mary.

seth350
01-10-2007, 06:31 PM
It takes a lot more than room to have a nice 3 way setup ;). As for the memory...quit hanging out with mary.

lol me and mary dont hang out much and she still gives me memory loss :crap:

from what the sticky said, 3ways are a lot harder to position in your sound stage if thats what you mean.

3ways may not be the best for my setup, i was just going to keep all doors open just in case

thadman
01-10-2007, 06:34 PM
3-ways have the potential to be better by several orders of magnitude...

Its all in the install though, as long as you do it right a properly setup 3-way will pwn a properly setup 2-way.

alphakenny1
01-10-2007, 06:39 PM
thats why you make grills to protect the speakers in the kicks.

i had my 4" in kicks and tweets in pillars mainly due to me wanting a higher stage. but now i have moved my tweeters in the kicks and i have still retained the high stage and i at the same time reduced the path length difference and able to cross the tweeter a lil bit lower. result has become a much more focused image.

but overall 2 way is much easier than a 3 way.

AAAAAAA
01-10-2007, 07:12 PM
If you dont have much room down there in the kicks, your speakers will get dirty, its just a reality. grills will phisically protect them but dirt and elements will get in.

Apparently you can make midranges work in the dash if you have access to some time allignement and some proper aiming. Apparently its been done before with good results, just not as easily.

For me having pods in the kick area was pretty hard to get use to, especially with a manual. I got use to it but I was glad once I took them out heh. It depends on the room you have down there, if I were to do it in the truck I have now it wouldnt be nearly as bad.

theothermike
01-10-2007, 07:21 PM
i doing a 3 way passive setup with cdt hd 642 until i better understand active, driver parameters, and sound dispersion, tuning etc...

i am having a veteran on here do my install, but i will learn as much as i can from them, and will be there as much as possible to learn things before i drive off.

Imo, i feel 3 ways put less stress and range of freq on each driver in the system therefore allowing each driver to perform much better.

Mike

squeak9798
01-10-2007, 07:59 PM
3-ways have the potential to be better by several orders of magnitude...

Its all in the install though, as long as you do it right a properly setup 3-way will pwn a properly setup 2-way.

That's not inherently true.

They each have their advantages and disadvantages. To say one is inconsequentially better is simply inaccurate.



To the OP; As was mentioned...the only way having the mids/tweeters on the A-pillars or dash is going to work is with time alignment. If you don't have time alignment....forgetaboutit.

T3mpest
01-11-2007, 12:17 AM
That's not inherently true.

They each have their advantages and disadvantages. To say one is inconsequentially better is simply inaccurate.



To the OP; As was mentioned...the only way having the mids/tweeters on the A-pillars or dash is going to work is with time alignment. If you don't have time alignment....forgetaboutit.

ehh, I dont' know... All things equal there are very few advantages in a 2 way install, especially in a car. However, installs vary, no 2 cars are the same. With that being said, a 3 way will get louder in almost every case, and most SQ cars are 3 ways too! To address the original poster, what that 4 inch midrange does.

1. Get's x-over point out of the vocal area
2.Reduced distortion in the vocal range, since the driver is no longer playing bass too
3.Allows you to equalize pathlengths and aim drivers in the frequencies where it matters most
4.Reduces doppler distortion (if it matters)

alphakenny1
01-11-2007, 01:33 AM
i agree with tempest .

the one advantage i see in a 2 way setup over a 3 way setup in regards to staging and imaging, if the midrange/midbass is well setup in kicks and plays really low and relatively high (scan speak rev 7" comes to mind) you'll have most of the range of music in the kicks. hence equalizing path lengths. remember, the lower the xover pt on the mid, the better in the kicks. so if a 7" can play down like 63-80hz in the kicks and play up to like 2-3khz and the 7" has great tonality characteristics, in this case, 2 way would be better. there aren't too many people who can fit a midbass, midrange and tweeter in the kicks.

///M5
01-11-2007, 02:21 AM
IMO 3 way passive is useless , I have never heard one worth a chit. The crossovers are usually a step up from crap at best, and pre-packaged drivers are bought cutting every corner known to man. To me if you are going to run some out of the box component set you really, really shouldn't run a 3 way. It takes a level of knowledge, tuning, and experience to make a three way sound right and if you have to ask about the installation it probably isn't the best choice for you. Stick with a 2 way and if you are unsatisfied with the output or quality, switch over to active crossovers and handpick drivers that will do what you actually need.

T3mpest
01-11-2007, 02:28 PM
IMO 3 way passive is useless , I have never heard one worth a chit. The crossovers are usually a step up from crap at best, and pre-packaged drivers are bought cutting every corner known to man. To me if you are going to run some out of the box component set you really, really shouldn't run a 3 way. It takes a level of knowledge, tuning, and experience to make a three way sound right and if you have to ask about the installation it probably isn't the best choice for you. Stick with a 2 way and if you are unsatisfied with the output or quality, switch over to active crossovers and handpick drivers that will do what you actually need.
ever heard any of the upper end 3 ways. Morel, dyn,rainbow, etc?

squeak9798
01-11-2007, 06:04 PM
and most SQ cars are 3 ways too!

But there have been plenty of 2-way cars that have won aswell...beating out some well setup 3-ways ;) Which I guess was moreso my point...that properly setup either can sound excellent and flat-out "pwning" won't really occur.


4.Reduces doppler distortion (if it matters)

Last I'd heard, Doppler distortion only really exists in the realm of theory, not audibility. I personally haven't seen any recent evidence to support otherwise at least......

seth350
01-11-2007, 07:45 PM
Wow, thanks for all the help guys. Everyone has been real informative :)

3.5Max6spd
01-11-2007, 08:37 PM
A 3way allows you to use your door location for dedicated midbass, crossing lower into a region that draws less localization cues. You want your midrange and tweets as far forward as possible , and close together if possible. Minimizing pathlength differences will yield better staging and imaging, a more coherent stereo presentation.

And I will say this...

A 3way in this fashion will ALWAYS yield better EVERYTHING, than a 2way where the wideband driver is mounted on a door, behind a door panel. Doors are a poor location(staging/imagingwise) for a driver playing a wide range for many reasons-short pathlengths , resonance (colors the midrange and midbass, drawing localization), off axis interference by the door panel....

If staging is not your emphasis, you will find 3way will get louder with less strain on a particular driver as well.

A 2way is just simpler to tune actively, and is a less complex setup.

seth350
01-11-2007, 09:14 PM
Makes sense, thanks :)

Hebrew Hammer
01-12-2007, 02:09 PM
what ever bs you guys are saying about 2ways is junk..most of all the best IASCA comp cars were two ways...it basically comes down to install..that's it...less point sources...less axis point/angles, and greater flexiblity in placement..I'd take a two way anyday over a 3way with door mounted anything....

so any nay sayers want to argue..my car will be open at SVR...2way with a "5" and tweeter..480watts to each driver with the 5 playing from 40hz and up...and actually I can get 20hz out of them...but that's pushing it

Hebrew Hammer
01-12-2007, 02:19 PM
IMO 3 way passive is useless , I have never heard one worth a chit. The crossovers are usually a step up from crap at best, and pre-packaged drivers are bought cutting every corner known to man. To me if you are going to run some out of the box component set you really, really shouldn't run a 3 way. It takes a level of knowledge, tuning, and experience to make a three way sound right and if you have to ask about the installation it probably isn't the best choice for you. Stick with a 2 way and if you are unsatisfied with the output or quality, switch over to active crossovers and handpick drivers that will do what you actually need.


agreed..infact passives anything...if your real serious passives are completly useless...to many bad things that a car's interior has that a passive network cannot and will not compensate for

alphakenny1
01-12-2007, 02:43 PM
what ever bs you guys are saying about 2ways is junk..most of all the best IASCA comp cars were two ways...it basically comes down to install..that's it...less point sources...less axis point/angles, and greater flexiblity in placement..I'd take a two way anyday over a 3way with door mounted anything....

so any nay sayers want to argue..my car will be open at SVR...2way with a "5" and tweeter..480watts to each driver with the 5 playing from 40hz and up...and actually I can get 20hz out of them...but that's pushing it

yep thats exactly what i stated before. thats probably the one advantage 2 way has over a 3 way. if you install the mids and tweets in kicks, then you are golden. door mounted anything *****, even midbass drivers. but if using door mounted locations, then to me 3 way will win out easily.

LoudCrownVic
01-12-2007, 02:55 PM
yep thats exactly what i stated before. thats probably the one advantage 2 way has over a 3 way. if you install the mids and tweets in kicks, then you are golden. door mounted anything *****, even midbass drivers. but if using door mounted locations, then to me 3 way will win out easily.

Do door installs with independent enclosures make a difference? Like, having a seperate chamber apart form the door?

Hebrew Hammer
01-12-2007, 03:28 PM
Do door installs with independent enclosures make a difference? Like, having a seperate chamber apart form the door?


door mounted nothing...but if you have to..then midbasses are ok...you can't address pld's with door mounted drivers...plus all tactile energy transfer is guaranteed with door mounted drivers...this always gives away speaker location...a two way using high end drivers...scan/seas/skaaning/accuton/etc...when installed properly will yeild just as good results than a three way....

seth350
01-12-2007, 05:00 PM
Well, although all of you have made very good valid points about the two. I still think I will try 3way and if I cant get it to sound right then I can always sell it or trade it for a nice 2 way. I appreciate all the help everyone has given, its helped me out a lot. :)