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02TurboA4
01-10-2007, 02:14 PM
I'm looking to upgrade my current components. I currently have the Germaniums as my front stage. They are a great sounding set and I probably never would have thought of upgrading but a few months ago I upgraded my Home System with Paradigm Studio 20's as my main speakers. After listening to my music on these the past few months I know I want to upgrade the components in my car.

I've spent a lot of time tuning the germaniums and they sound great just not as good as my Studio 20's. I know the Studio 20's have a metal dome tweeter but they are not bright or harsh even after listening to them for extended periods of time. I have had metal dome tweeters in the past (MBQ QSD's and Infinity Kappa Perfects) and they were both a little to bright even after tuning.

If anyone has heard the Studio 20's or not and has any recommendations that would be great. Also I would be willing to got active this time around but the tweeter has to be a small form factor and a 6.5" midrange/midbass. I also do not have a budget yet but do not want to spend more than $800-$900, less if possible.

alteraudiousa
01-10-2007, 02:42 PM
its going to be hard to get the same results in the car as you do in the home. Its two different environments and a car is not the best environment for audio. What differences do you hear?

PatFitz9
01-10-2007, 02:45 PM
is there something specific that you think the Germs are lacking? midbass, clarity, or just all around they aren't up to par?

atsaubrey
01-10-2007, 02:46 PM
Sweet HU you have there. I very much like the Polk Audio SR 6500 and all the review on them would agree with me. Also I love the sound of my Zapco's as well. I too know what you mean by metal domes, I know exactly what your talking about. I can get two sets of SR6500's for $450 if your interested. Good luck and go take a listen.

02TurboA4
01-10-2007, 04:37 PM
I know there is a big difference between the two, they are two different animals. Not really sure how to describe the differences. All I can really say it just the overall SQ is better on the Studio 20's. They seem to have better overall clarity. I noticed things on the Studios that I didn't notice before on the Germaniums.

02TurboA4
01-10-2007, 04:40 PM
atsaubrey - how do you like the polk sr6500's? I haven't seen any reviews on them yet.

PremierAudio
01-10-2007, 05:05 PM
Like Lukas said, the comparison between house and car are completely different environments. How are the Germaniums installed? Kicks? Doors? Do you have and deadening material? What more are you looking for in them? Just more Clarity?

02TurboA4
01-10-2007, 05:25 PM
Yeah I know its hard to compare the to environments, I've been into Home Audio longer than Car audio.

PremierAudio - Drivers mounted low in the door near the kick and the tweeters are mounted high in the doors. Doors have full treatment, custom mount for driver and a few layers of deadening from RAAMmat. Mainly looking for more clarity.

02TurboA4
01-11-2007, 01:18 PM
Any recommendations?

Here are a few I'm looking at going active with:
Rainbow Platinums
Lotus Seas Reference
Focal 165K2P
Focal Utopia-Be No.6
Morel Supremo

Only problem I see with the last two is that the tweeters overall size is larger. Also the I know the cost on the Utopia is probably way out of my range.

Towncar
01-11-2007, 02:06 PM
I would go the diy route.. Pick up some scans, or something along those lines..

Towncar
01-11-2007, 02:09 PM
Some options..

http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=3872907.29667&pid=1165


http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=3872907.29667&pid=2125

02TurboA4
01-11-2007, 02:26 PM
Towncar - the only problem is I don't have room for a tweeter that big.

Towncar
01-11-2007, 02:31 PM
Their are many tweeters smaller than the one i posted. I was just giving you ideas..

here is 1 for example

http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=3872907.29667&pid=1143

02TurboA4
01-11-2007, 02:53 PM
Thanks for the info. Any info as to how they sound?

02TurboA4
01-11-2007, 04:33 PM
atsaubrey - did you compare the polk sr6500's to anything else when you made your purchase? What other set have you heard? I'd like to hear them but no place around here has them.

alteraudiousa
01-11-2007, 06:19 PM
honestly i you won't even notice a difference. Just to tell you how different the environments can be, I have a guy in my old store who could tell the difference by what type of speaker wire was used or by what dye was used. There are always small nuances from Ht that you will never hear from car audio due to environment. It will be very hard for a car environment to be as articulate as a home setup. You may want to look at mixing and matching and going active for the setup. Install will play an important role too. Also paradigm is that good, but best of luck.

02TurboA4
01-11-2007, 08:07 PM
alteraudiousa - I know i'll never get the same sound but I want to get something with better clarity than the germaniums. This time I plan on going active and getting a second amp for the tweeters. I've already got over 30 hrs in my current install and its still not finished and it will be perfect by the time its done, I hope, at least to me anyway.

I also noticed your a CDT dealer, is there anything that you would recommend?

Also I know paradigm is not the best, but the were the best in my price range at the time, out of all the speakers I demo'd and everyone has different tastes. I've also listened to many speakers $2000-$10,000+ that put mine and many others to shame.

I would love to be able to demo many different car audio speakers but around here no shops have any good speakers. So I have to rely on people on this forum for a little help.

6spdcoupe
01-12-2007, 02:45 AM
Gimme another call, I may have a few ideas for ya. :)

02TurboA4
01-12-2007, 10:09 AM
I'll do that Don. Can you PM me your # again, I can't find it.

3.5Max6spd
01-12-2007, 10:27 AM
The problem is in the car with a door mounted/off axis wide range driver its very hard to reach the level of clarity of a home system. I recommend you stepping up to a 3way setup, even if no room opt for one with a dome midrange can can be easy to install even ifs off axis alonside the tweeter. It will certainly allow more finite details reach your ears and every driver has a dedicated range. Should certainly help you stage/image better as well.

Flipx99
01-12-2007, 10:28 AM
DLS sells a 2.5" midrange if mounting room area or whatever is an issue. I have been looking into it but I haven't heard any reviews abouts it's off axis response.

I think it is the iridium series but it looks pretty good

nismos14
01-12-2007, 10:41 AM
A couple of things - try reversing the polarity on the tweeters - that may open things up a big for you, also maybe run the germs' active!

02TurboA4
01-12-2007, 11:13 AM
Thanks for all the input but I only want to stick with a 2-way system due to not having enough room. Also I don't want to cut up the door panels to install a dome midrange, I barely have enough room for the tweeter. But I'll take a quick pic of the door panel and post it. Maybe someone could give me an idea as to where to put a midrange to blend into the factory look. I also would be not able to put a midbass in the kick because of being a manual trans and not having room on the driver side.

02TurboA4
01-12-2007, 12:42 PM
Here's a photo of my door panel. If anyone one has any ideas as to where to add in a midrange and keep a factory look I would appreciate it. Also I can't put anything above the aluminum panel in the door because behind that section of the panel is a main part of the door structure.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m35/02TurboA4/2007_0112Audi0001.jpg

3.5Max6spd
01-12-2007, 12:45 PM
Thanks for all the input but I only want to stick with a 2-way system due to not having enough room. Also I don't want to cut up the door panels to install a dome midrange, I barely have enough room for the tweeter. But I'll take a quick pic of the door panel and post it. Maybe someone could give me an idea as to where to put a midrange to blend into the factory look. I also would be not able to put a midbass in the kick because of being a manual trans and not having room on the driver side.


Exactly why a DOME 3" midrange and 1" tweet is more than easy enough to squeeze onto an OEM kickpanel cover flushmounted. Dont worry about the low location , that sound will seem like its coming from the top of your dash. These setups are highly unobstrusive and works very well.

You cannot get anywhere close to a home audio setup with your highest sources of sibilance/ localization at your doors. You are just wasting your time, the pathlengths ****.

02TurboA4
01-12-2007, 01:14 PM
3.5Max6spd - thanks for the input, but the last time I had my kick panels off if i remember correct there was almost 0 clearance behind them with all the factory wiring harnesses. But I might be able to make a setup like that fit. Only thing that I'm not sure of is I know on the driver side my foot would be right in front of them the entire time, because I'm constantly putting my foot on the foot rest when not using the clutch. Wouldn't that cause issues?

Any speakers you would recommend?

Also i'm not trying to get close to a home audio setup, just know I want something better than what I currently have.

Flipx99
01-12-2007, 01:53 PM
3.5Max6spd - thanks for the input, but the last time I had my kick panels off if i remember correct there was almost 0 clearance behind them with all the factory wiring harnesses. But I might be able to make a setup like that fit. Only thing that I'm not sure of is I know on the driver side my foot would be right in front of them the entire time, because I'm constantly putting my foot on the foot rest when not using the clutch. Wouldn't that cause issues?

Any speakers you would recommend?

Also i'm not trying to get close to a home audio setup, just know I want something better than what I currently have.

That DLS midrange I spoke about may fit. The mounting diameter is only a few inches (a little under 5"). i couldn't find much outside of the aura whisper that may work and this dls.

Here are some specs on that DLS

Speaker type : 75 mm (3") doped fabric with chamber
Power handling capacity : 100 W RMS / 160 W max
Impedance : 4 ohm
Fs, resonant frequency : 280 Hz
Voice coil : 75 mm / 3" Aluminium flat wire, 5 mm
X-max : +- 0,5 mm
Frequency range : 250 - 8000 Hz
Sensitivity : 91 dB (1W/1m)
Magnet size : 80 mm (3,15")
Outer diameter : 120 mm (4,72")
Installation depth : 35 mm ( 1,38")
Mounting hole : 95 mm (3,74")



I have an S-10 and have it worse than you as much of my door panel is curved and it is difficult as hell to mount a tweet without serious mods to the A-pillar. Keep this thread up as no one has jacked it up yet and has very good info.

alteraudiousa
01-12-2007, 02:06 PM
Paradigm is quite good for the price in almost any range. i do like the sound of some ML electrostatic speakers and yeah there are those outrageously priced speakers but its quite hard to beat what paradigm has done and their anthem amps are quite nice.

i am quite suprised the germs are clear enough. i think you may really want to consider a 3way setup. the midrange driver i would suggest be IB if possible. i took a look at your picture and your map pocket in the door could be a good place to stick a small 3in midrange. if you could make a small cover over the pocket opening that would be good. I would suggest the Hybrid Audio L3 for midrange use. use the germ woofer in the door and mount the tweeter either in the kick or on the dash. CDT is coming out with some new ES drivers but they are not out yet just used on the CES car. i would suggest running actively or atleast run the germ woofer actively and the midrange and tweeter passively. i think you will get more clarity in a 3way setup than a 2way in the car.

02TurboA4
01-12-2007, 04:13 PM
alteraudiousa - never thought about using the map pocket area. If i use that area i would take out the pockets and custom fiberglass and wrap the area to make it look like it was meant to be there. But wouldn't I want the tweeter right by the midrange?

Well it looks like from all the info i've got I should go 3-way. I only have room for the midbass in the door at the factory location. So would in the door pocket area or the kick for the tweeter and midrange work best?

Flipx99
01-12-2007, 04:18 PM
Well it looks like from all the info i've got I should go 3-way. I only have room for the midbass in the door at the factory location. So would in the door pocket area or the kick for the tweeter and midrange work best?

I would say so from my searching it looks like the higher frequencies are more directional and kickpanels for that would help with that and pathlength differences. Maybe your vehicle has a q-form for it if you are uncomfortable with your glassing skills. They say they are rather thing but if you load them with matting and non-hardening clay to reduce resonances, they are okay.

02TurboA4
01-12-2007, 04:41 PM
I've done glassing a few times and its not that hard if you take your time to get it right. Also i won't be glassing or using q-foams in the kicks because I have no extra room on the driver side. I would have to flush mount the tweeter and dome midrange in the factory kick panel if that is where i put them.

Flipx99
01-12-2007, 04:49 PM
I don't know if you would get the angle right then. I thought part of the good things about kick panels (built or bought) was the angling of mid/tweet. Since it will be both low and parallel to the door, I am curious how it will sound. I'll wait for someone more knowledgeable to post.

02TurboA4
01-15-2007, 03:24 PM
bump

SQChevy
01-16-2007, 11:47 AM
Something that you may want to consider is going active with your amp and maybe just switching your tweeter. I don't have any experience with the Germaniums, but ask some of those who have them about how much power they really need. I know speakers will say they have say a 50 W RMS but they will take more and sound much better. It all depends on if you filter out unnecessary frequencies from that speaker. What kind of crossover and processor do you have on your system?