PDA

View Full Version : NO Midbass from Rainbow CMX 265 Kicks!?!?



bustu19
01-08-2007, 01:29 PM
I just had my Rainbow CMX 265 Kicks installed in my '03 M3 this weekend and there is minimal if any midbass coming from the front end. I bought them through Premir Audio (who was awesome to work with and would not hesitate to do business again) and they came in on Friday and installed on Saturday. I know there is a break in period, but seriously there is NO midbass. The factory HK system WITHOUT the 6x9 subs put out 3-4 times the amount of midbass.

I wish I would have taken pics of the install, but they are mounted in the factory location and the doors and deadend to death with 3 Dynamat Extreme door kits for the 2 doors. There is no vibration on the door itself. I can feel a good amount of air being moved by the 6.5s, enough to move a tissue back and forth, but there is no sound, no impact at all. What gives???

My installer contacted a guy named Craig who sells Rainbows on the west cost and he thinks the problem could be a lack of airspace behind the speaker. He recomended we try the following:

1) Wire one side out of phase - tried it, slight improvement
2) Wire both sides out of phase - tried it, no improvement
3) Remove one or two of the 2" gromets to get some air flowing
4) Cut a hole in the metal behind the speaker to get air flowing

The set is getting 150W per channel via an Alpine PDX-2.150. The amp is getting a full range signal from the HU and is HP'd at 80Hz per the CMX instructions.

Anyone have ideas?

acold7dusta
01-08-2007, 01:37 PM
sounds like an air leak. i gained alot more midbass when i put a foam gasket behind the mid itself, because some air would escape. recheck polarity on the speakers, they should be wired directly

bustu19
01-08-2007, 01:40 PM
We tried every every phase possibility and the results were negligable. We're lost as to what is causing this.

acold7dusta
01-08-2007, 01:41 PM
check the air leak issue. if alot of air is coming out, that could very well be it. put a gasket between the plastic coupler and the speaker itself

j3bus2k3
01-08-2007, 01:43 PM
Do you have an aftermarket Headunit? Is there a setting on it affecting it? Are the gains set too low?

PremierAudio
01-08-2007, 01:56 PM
Something is not right. I had the same set in my M3 as well mounted to the door and also the door panel. Where is the air coming from? How big of a hole did you cut in the door? (missed the window track I hope) What are your crossover points at? you still should have atleast the midbass the stock system has through free air with that system.

bustu19
01-08-2007, 01:57 PM
Stock HU, no settings altered. We just added the PDX and the Rainbows. They are getting plenty of juice and get REALLY loud, just no middbass for some reason.

PremierAudio
01-08-2007, 02:01 PM
How do you have them mounted? facing into the plastic mounting bracket on the door panel, or straight to the door? Also do you have deadening the door panel and door?

bustu19
01-08-2007, 02:05 PM
Something is not right. I had the same set in my M3 as well mounted to the door and also the door panel. Where is the air coming from? How big of a hole did you cut in the door? (missed the window track I hope) What are your crossover points at? you still should have atleast the midbass the stock system has through free air with that system.

The air is coming through the the speaker grill as it should. We haven't cut any metal behind the speaker yet so maybe that is the issue? I know the window track runs right beind the speaker which *****.

I just ran out to my car to double check the crossover point and they are set for HP at 70Hz.

I have midbass coming from the sock speakers in the rear deck (a lot more midbass than the CMX's) but I'm not a fan of rear fill at all.

bustu19
01-08-2007, 02:07 PM
How do you have them mounted? facing into the plastic mounting bracket on the door panel, or straight to the door? Also do you have deadening the door panel and door?

They are mounted to the door panel like the factory speaker, not to the door panel itself. And we have Dynamat Extreme on the door and the door panel itself.

PremierAudio
01-08-2007, 02:12 PM
I totally forgot that you had the stock h/u. the amplifier in those cars are weird how they are crossed over. I was just talking with my brother about it to see what he said and he just reminded me of how much of a pain it was with that H/U. It was actually made by Alpine if I remember the sticker on it. But we ended up replacing it because we could not get a good signal from it before or after the stock amplifier. Basically the stock system has all the lower freq running towards the back, If I remember the front only goes down to 200hz and when the music is turned up it startes cutting more out. You best bet is going to get the signal before the stock amp and see how that works. If it still isnt good, which I will bet it will not be, then you will probably be better off with a different head unit. Which disappointed me because I loved the look of the stock dash and how it all flowed together.

bustu19
01-08-2007, 03:21 PM
I totally forgot that you had the stock h/u. the amplifier in those cars are weird how they are crossed over. I was just talking with my brother about it to see what he said and he just reminded me of how much of a pain it was with that H/U. It was actually made by Alpine if I remember the sticker on it. But we ended up replacing it because we could not get a good signal from it before or after the stock amplifier. Basically the stock system has all the lower freq running towards the back, If I remember the front only goes down to 200hz and when the music is turned up it startes cutting more out. You best bet is going to get the signal before the stock amp and see how that works. If it still isnt good, which I will bet it will not be, then you will probably be better off with a different head unit. Which disappointed me because I loved the look of the stock dash and how it all flowed together.

I'll be picking up an Alpine PXE-H650 to get a better signal to the amps, hopefully it will solve the problem. See description below

PXE-H650: OEM Audio Processor
The PXE-H650 can make any factory radio sound like a high-quality Alpine unit. It is an audio processor that is designed to allow consumers to upgrade from factory sound systems. The product is a sophisticated audio processor that allows for advanced sound tuning of factory equipment by correcting the acoustical problems in any vehicle. The PXE-H650 is equipped with AntEQ™, to remove the factory equalization, and Audyssey SoundEQ XT™, to optimize the sound quality of the system.

AntEQ works by removing all factory equalization, bringing the factory system's EQ to a flat response. It balances all sound levels using DSP power, and flattens the output signals so that Alpine amplifier and speaker upgrades can be added to the factory system.

After AntEQ has flattened the factory EQ, Audyssey SoundEQ XT then tunes the vehicle's system for optimum performance. The PXE-H650 uses an active feedback microphone to collect measurements from the vehicle's cabin. The unit then tunes itself, making automatic adjustments for the in-cabin acoustics. Audyssey SoundEQ XT adjusts time correction, frequency and phase in relation to each other. At this point, Alpine amplifiers, speakers and subwoofers could be added for a simple upgrade of the factory system, or a more complex system can be made if a full multi-channel set-up is desired. A powerful DSP processor allows for acoustic correction all the way down to 20 Hz on all channels. SoundEQ XT analyzes the entire frequency spectrum, unlike most competitors' analysis of 1/3-octave solutions.

nismos14
01-08-2007, 03:31 PM
Looks like it'll solve your problem

bustu19
01-08-2007, 03:37 PM
Looks like it'll solve your problem

I hope so. I just cant figure out why there is AIR being pushed by the speaker, yet no sound!?!? Some kind of wierd cancellation issue perhaps?

nismos14
01-08-2007, 03:49 PM
Well at 200hz+ it should still be moving somewhat, so that could be why it moves air, if its moving some air now, imagine what it'll do when it gets down on the lower frequencies ;)

The way its desribed though it seems like somethign is out of phase, but you already eliminated that possibility.

PremierAudio
01-08-2007, 04:28 PM
I was just going to recommend something of that nature. That should fix the problem, plus it lets you keep the stock dash!

bustu19
01-08-2007, 04:45 PM
Thanks, I'll let you know how it turns out.

3.5Max6spd
01-08-2007, 05:04 PM
You should also allow a break in period for the Kick drivers. They will improve in sound and output after the recommended period.

bustu19
01-08-2007, 05:17 PM
I also thought about the break in period, but if you guys heard these you would know something was wrong. It's not just weak midbass or I'm not happy with the midbass, its NO midbass. So weird.

enzowho
01-08-2007, 06:07 PM
You should also allow a break in period for the Kick drivers. They will improve in sound and output after the recommended period.
I have owned two sets of kickbass drivers (SLC and Profi's). Both of them had sorry midbass response initially, but after several hours of playing began to put quite a large smile on my face. That doesn't seem like its your problem though...very weird, hope you figure it out.

doct77
02-20-2007, 06:41 AM
have you solved this problem yet? I am having the same problem with my Accord. Weak midbass from the focal k2p but doors are well deadened. No idea what's going on.

3.5Max6spd
02-20-2007, 08:07 AM
We tried every every phase possibility and the results were negligable. We're lost as to what is causing this.


Kickbass drivers tend to sound hazy at first prior to break in. I wouldnt touch a thing until you've dialed in a good 10+ hours of listening. Then evaluate the situation.