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jmanpc
01-03-2007, 01:01 PM
I'm sittin here listening to Frank Zappa's Sheik Yerbouti right now on vinyl. I'm using an old Panasonic turntable, an early 90's Yamaha reciever, and some freshly refoamed Infinity towers from the mid '70s. All I can say is when I crank it up... HOT ****!

Listening to a CD just ain't the same. The record is just so much warmer- it just more... natural. I love my records :blush:


Hmmm... what should I listen to next? Fragile by Yes, Zoot Allures by Frank Zappa, Who's Next by The Who, 1 by Led Zepplin, Beck-ola by Jeff Beck...

phyphoestilic
01-03-2007, 01:02 PM
I love vinyl too, but cant get it in the car :p:

ramos
01-03-2007, 01:04 PM
I love vinyl too, but cant get it in the car :p:


They did try it as an option . Back in the late 60's early 70's . A few automakers were offering an underdash 45 player as an option :)

jmanpc
01-03-2007, 01:05 PM
They did try it as an option . Back in the late 60's early 70's . A few automakers were offering an underdash 45 player as an option :)

skippage ftl

ramos
01-03-2007, 01:08 PM
Yep ,that and the introduction of 8 tracks :)

ramos
01-03-2007, 01:09 PM
I still want to put an 8 track deck in a car just to meter the god awful thump during track changes . :)

joetama
01-03-2007, 02:55 PM
After I get to my new apartment, I will be time to start the vinyl collection... I'm excited....

jmanpc
01-03-2007, 03:00 PM
After I get to my new apartment, I will be time to start the vinyl collection... I'm excited....

I get mine from at a flea market from a foreign guy who smells like he forgot to wipe

joetama
01-03-2007, 03:02 PM
I get mine from at a flea market from a foreign guy who smells like he forgot to wipe

haha.... Yea... You will run into that sometimes....

GrnEydDvl
01-03-2007, 03:08 PM
Forgetting to wipe or ... ? :laugh:

phyphoestilic
01-03-2007, 03:10 PM
those are the best guys to buy from, cuse they always have everything lol

thylantyr
01-03-2007, 04:34 PM
Hmmm... what should I listen to next?

behemoth
slayer
king diamond

harr harr harr

LeofromtheH
01-03-2007, 07:21 PM
i've got about 30 vinyls, but about 20 are more recent albums. i've got the same kind of store at a flea market nearby though. always stop by on weekends and pick up afew for cheap cheap

oh and btw. i love vinyl too

joetama
01-03-2007, 07:56 PM
i've got about 30 vinyls, but about 20 are more recent albums. i've got the same kind of store at a flea market nearby though. always stop by on weekends and pick up afew for cheap cheap

oh and btw. i love vinyl too

What kind of table do you have?

LeofromtheH
01-03-2007, 07:59 PM
i've got a pair of gemini's right now, but some 1200mkII's on the way.

i've been debating on getting some cdtables just for parties and such, but i'd rather spend my money on vinyl tables

heyman421
01-03-2007, 08:10 PM
records are a waste of money

they don't even have discrete stereo, they're matrixed

and the RIAA's ruled 'acceptable' record wear is that the frequency response of the recording drops from 20khz down to 16khz after only 8 plays, and continues to fall down to 8khz................................ this would be what makes records sound 'warm' fellas

disposeable, 1/2 *** stereo recordings FTL

joetama
01-03-2007, 08:37 PM
records are a waste of money

they don't even have discrete stereo, they're matrixed

and the RIAA's ruled 'acceptable' record wear is that the frequency response of the recording drops from 20khz down to 16khz after only 8 plays, and continues to fall down to 8khz................................ this would be what makes records sound 'warm' fellas

disposeable, 1/2 *** stereo recordings FTL

K, great thanks for that....

But, I don't care.....

ballstothewall
01-04-2007, 01:57 AM
K, great thanks for that....

But, I don't care.....

x2

jmanpc
01-04-2007, 01:59 AM
records are a waste of money

they don't even have discrete stereo, they're matrixed

and the RIAA's ruled 'acceptable' record wear is that the frequency response of the recording drops from 20khz down to 16khz after only 8 plays, and continues to fall down to 8khz................................ this would be what makes records sound 'warm' fellas

disposeable, 1/2 *** stereo recordings FTL

i still love em.

baseballer1100
01-04-2007, 02:02 AM
I just heard one for the first time the other day they are in fact awesome.

joetama
01-04-2007, 02:58 AM
Most people are just non believers....

ramos
01-04-2007, 08:35 AM
records are a waste of money

they don't even have discrete stereo, they're matrixed

and the RIAA's ruled 'acceptable' record wear is that the frequency response of the recording drops from 20khz down to 16khz after only 8 plays, and continues to fall down to 8khz................................ this would be what makes records sound 'warm' fellas

disposeable, 1/2 *** stereo recordings FTL



What if I bought all of them as they were coming out ? It was either records or listen to the radio constantly , and I fooking hate disco music with a freakin passion. :)

adam71
01-04-2007, 10:16 AM
records are a waste of money

they don't even have discrete stereo, they're matrixed

and the RIAA's ruled 'acceptable' record wear is that the frequency response of the recording drops from 20khz down to 16khz after only 8 plays, and continues to fall down to 8khz................................ this would be what makes records sound 'warm' fellas

disposeable, 1/2 *** stereo recordings FTL

That may be but the stereo image is still a better sound, not to mention the warmer sound is just incredible. The only thing that I don't care for with vinyl is the maintenance that goes with it. Not to mention I don't have a very good turntable. I deadened the bottom side of the platter, beefed up the rca outputs and ground cable and it still leaves alot to be desired. One of these days I'll spend 2 or 3 hundred bucks on a decent turntable. Factor that with the recording labels NEVER really taking full advantage of the CD format and its a no brainer what is better.

On your comment about the frequency range fading after so many plays: I don't listen to my vinyl that much. I only listen to vinyl once or twice a year when my friend brings his albums over along with some good burboun and a few good cigars and we listen and relax. Its more of a nostalgic thing for us, not so much of a fidelity thing.

adam71
01-04-2007, 10:22 AM
On another note the only digital formats I've heard that come close to vinyl in fidelity is SACD and DVD-Audio 2 channel. Mobile fidelity, Telarc, Sheffield Labs, etc...have done wonders with reg. CD but that is only a small percentage of the CDs in circulation today. Fact is most of today's recording engineers abuse the format. There is far too much dynamic range compression used on CD recording and mastering. There have been POP cds measured to have only 6 db's of dynamic range on them. That is absolutely pathetic. On the flip side of that, some of Telarc's recordings on CD have a dynamic range of almost 60 dbs. Pretty big difference.

jmanpc
01-05-2007, 04:33 PM
Ahh, just turned on Zappa again. Amazing guitar. Sounds sooooo good :)

joetama
01-05-2007, 05:13 PM
Ahh, just turned on Zappa again. Amazing guitar. Sounds sooooo good :)

Zappa is good but almost too childish.... My opinion...

Beat_Dominator
01-05-2007, 05:28 PM
I hate flipping records over :(

joetama
01-05-2007, 05:28 PM
I hate flipping records over :(

Lazy bastard....:eyebrow:

thylantyr
01-05-2007, 06:53 PM
There have been POP cds measured to have only 6 db's of dynamic range on them. That is absolutely pathetic. On the flip side of that, some of Telarc's recordings on CD have a dynamic range of almost 60 dbs. Pretty big difference.

POP music sux .. so why go the extra mile for SQ ............. lol

People like to blame CD technology as being inferior to vinyl but everyone
forgets about the recording methodology. I have great CD's and bad ones,
it's not the CD that's to blame. I also have some SACD and DVDA. IMO, over-rated formats.

PESteele
01-05-2007, 07:03 PM
my parents have about 2 or 300 vinyls. Pretty much all old good stuff.

jmanpc
01-05-2007, 07:05 PM
Zappa is good but almost too childish.... My opinion...

yeah lots of his stuff is pretty immature, but that guy seriously knows how to play a guitar. Listen to "Yo mama" and the guitar solo in it..... whew!

joetama
01-05-2007, 07:10 PM
yeah lots of his stuff is pretty immature, but that guy seriously knows how to play a guitar. Listen to "Yo mama" and the guitar solo in it..... whew!

Yea I see your point, he is a good player. BUT, I can't get over the dumb lyrics....

Beat_Dominator
01-05-2007, 07:10 PM
Lazy bastard....:eyebrow:

I can't deny it. I've been entertaining the idea of a disk changer lately so that I can have longer listening sessions. :blackeye:

joetama
01-05-2007, 07:12 PM
I can't deny it. I've been entertaining the idea of a disk changer lately so that I can have longer listening sessions. :blackeye:

Well find your self a midget to do it for you!


:D:up2somet::furious::uhoh:

jmanpc
01-05-2007, 07:13 PM
Yea I see your point, he is a good player. BUT, I can't get over the dumb lyrics....

"Never smoke in pajamas. You could start a fire and burn your face. Maybe you should go to Managua. You could go unnoticed in such a place."

"Don't fool yourself, girl. It's going right up your poop chute.... I'm gonna ram it, ram it, ram it, right up your poop chute (fist ****)"

:p:

thylantyr
01-05-2007, 07:18 PM
Yea I see your point, he is a good player. BUT, I can't get over the dumb lyrics....

Reminds me of dream theater. They could have done much better if they never
had a vocalist. I refuse to listen to the music when he's singing in spite that they are great musicians, the singer ruins it big time. He sounds like a dead frog.

Beat_Dominator
01-05-2007, 07:20 PM
Hmmm terrific idea!

Oh I listened to a pair of 802Ds yesterday off of those MC275 McIntosh amps..... was pretty disappointed :crap:

thylantyr
01-05-2007, 08:41 PM
--MC275 McIntosh amps

Too low in power to exploit 800 series speakers.

Even 500w McIntosh monoblocks on 800D speakers failed to impress me.

This is a job for dual PLX3402 bridged, harr harr......

05fronty
01-05-2007, 08:49 PM
Hmmm... what should I listen to next?

behemoth
slayer
king diamond

harr harr harr

king diamond sounds like he got hit in the balls:D the other day my daughter didn't know what a record was!!!

Lil Poot
01-05-2007, 08:51 PM
oh yeah, dream theaters singer *****. always has. always been incredible music though.

i dont know about vinyl though, strictly cd's for meh. that sound is somehow nostalgic, brings back warm memories of childhood, jammin foghat, tom petty, pink floyd, led zeppelin and the grateful dead with my old man.... but if im out to listen to some music i've got to have a cd. hell, remastered if it wasnt a quality recording in the first place.

joetama
01-06-2007, 01:50 AM
Hmmm terrific idea!

Oh I listened to a pair of 802Ds yesterday off of those MC275 McIntosh amps..... was pretty disappointed :crap:

Those are VERY BAD amps to put on those speakers. Classe, Naim, or Ayre would be the only 3 amps I would run on those...

VERY BAD DEALER.....

ngsm13
01-06-2007, 01:52 AM
I happen to agree.

Balls.

nG

joetama
01-06-2007, 01:58 AM
I happen to agree.

Balls.

nG

Yes... Classe monoblocks + high end 800 series = great results.

Everything totally disappears...

thylantyr
01-06-2007, 02:49 AM
king diamond sounds like he got hit in the balls:D the other day my daughter didn't know what a record was!!!

Old man of many voices, very unique sounds his bands create.


Can you figure out who is King Diamond in the pic? lol
http://www.covenworldwide.org/images/photos/MF2006.JPG

November 19th, 2006
Yesterday, ( November 18th ) at the Danish Metal Awards 2006
in Copenhagen, Denmark, MERCYFUL FATE received an AWARD OF HONOUR, recognizing their huge influence on the metal scene, in particular through their early recordings.

Hint: his stage makeup, lol
http://images.musicclub.it/foto/ki/big/KING_DIAMOND.tif.big.jpg

thylantyr
01-06-2007, 02:54 AM
Yes... Classe monoblocks + high end 800 series = great results.

Everything totally disappears...

That's alot of money to invest.............................. to have it disappear..........
... where'd my audio system go?


:laugh: :wallbash: :chicken: :wacky:

BTW, if I listen to my budget line array at low to normal listening level {medium to
high level for non array folks :laugh: }, using ordinary pro audio gear, they disappear
too... But if I crank higher SPL, people will know what is beating up their azz................. hehe

You don't need special amps to make a great sound system. This is audiophile poo poo voo doo

joetama
01-06-2007, 02:56 AM
That's alot of money to invest.............................. to have it disappear..........
... where'd my audio system go?


:laugh: :wallbash: :chicken: :wacky:

BTW, if I listen to my budget line array at low to normal listening level {medium to
high level for non array folks :laugh: }, using ordinary pro audio gear, they disappear
too... But if I crank higher SPL, people will know what is beating up their azz................. hehe

K thanks great happy for you....

Smart ***.....

thylantyr
01-06-2007, 02:58 AM
Abra cadabra...............

Nothing up my sleeve.....

Presto.............

:popcorn: :driving: :party:

joetama
01-06-2007, 02:59 AM
Abra cadabra...............

Nothing up my sleeve.....

Presto.............

:popcorn: :driving: :party:

You enjoy making every thread into a pro line array thread don't you?

adam71
01-06-2007, 12:50 PM
POP music sux .. so why go the extra mile for SQ ............. lol

Whether pop music sux or not isn't the point. Point is they charge the going rate (too **** much) for a cd it should be atleast close to the potential of the format.


People like to blame CD technology as being inferior to vinyl but everyone
forgets about the recording methodology. I have great CD's and bad ones,
it's not the CD that's to blame. I also have some SACD and DVDA. IMO, over-rated formats.

Me personally, I have never blamed the format. Like I said in my earlier post its the recording engineers (and the corner cutting record labels that won't pay him to do a good job) that are to blame for CD not being the best it can be. As far as SACD and DVDA are concerned I don't think you can say they're over rated when both formats pretty much tanked commercially. I will say that they didn't offer enough of difference in sound over cd to sway the masses to convert.

joetama
01-06-2007, 02:23 PM
Me personally, I have never blamed the format. Like I said in my earlier post its the recording engineers (and the corner cutting record labels that won't pay him to do a good job) that are to blame for CD not being the best it can be. As far as SACD and DVDA are concerned I don't think you can say they're over rated when both formats pretty much tanked commercially. I will say that they didn't offer enough of difference in sound over cd to sway the masses to convert.

I have both CD versions and DVD-Audio/SACD versions of CD's. With my Arcam CD Player you can't tell the difference between a DVDA or SACD and the CD. But, with a ****** CD player like my DVD player or my XBox you can tell a difference. So, really there isn't that big of a difference. Hence why my SACD/DVDA collection is so small....

adam71
01-06-2007, 02:32 PM
I have both CD versions and DVD-Audio/SACD versions of CD's. With my Arcam CD Player you can't tell the difference between a DVDA or SACD and the CD. But, with a ****** CD player like my DVD player or my XBox you can tell a difference. So, really there isn't that big of a difference. Hence why my SACD/DVDA collection is so small....

Well, I don't have an Arcam cd player. I just have a Denon universal player. I can tell the difference between my Hotel California DVD-Audio and the CD counterpart. I know I don't have the same calibur equipment you have (especially speakers) but it is NOT low end either. I will admit however that there isn't enough of a difference which is why these formats never really took hold. My SACD/DVD-A collection is small too.;)

ngsm13
01-06-2007, 02:40 PM
Well, I don't have an Arcam cd player. I just have a Denon universal player. I can tell the difference between my Hotel California DVD-Audio and the CD counterpart. I know I don't have the same calibur equipment you have (especially speakers) but it is NOT low end either. I will admit however that there isn't enough of a difference which is why these formats never really took hold. My SACD/DVD-A collection is small too.;)

It was funny, because I didn't believe him.

But I closed my eyes, and he periodically switched back and forth b/w the two sources.

I actually liked the CD version better in the blind test.

Lawl.

nG

joetama
01-06-2007, 02:43 PM
Well, I don't have an Arcam cd player. I just have a Denon universal player. I can tell the difference between my Hotel California DVD-Audio and the CD counterpart. I know I don't have the same calibur equipment you have (especially speakers) but it is NOT low end either. I will admit however that there isn't enough of a difference which is why these formats never really took hold. My SACD/DVD-A collection is small too.;)


I find it rather hard to find albums I want on the SACD/DVD-A formats....

Denon Universal players are pretty good, but a dedicated CD player will sound better almost always. (People are going to disagree with me on that one)

What do you run for speakers?

thylantyr
01-06-2007, 04:05 PM
People are going to disagree with me on that one

Yep lol

Beat_Dominator
01-06-2007, 04:08 PM
I'm gonna buy the Oppo universal player for SACDs only $149 and it'll get the job done :p:

Idealrealist
01-06-2007, 04:15 PM
Love vinyl can't listen to it now cause I have no player.
.....would like to get an old one

adam71
01-06-2007, 04:22 PM
I find it rather hard to find albums I want on the SACD/DVD-A formats....

Denon Universal players are pretty good, but a dedicated CD player will sound better almost always. (People are going to disagree with me on that one)

What do you run for speakers?

Mirage. I bought them in 1993.

And for the record my Universal player model is DVD-3910. It was the next one down from the flagship.

joetama
01-06-2007, 05:12 PM
I'm gonna buy the Oppo universal player for SACDs only $149 and it'll get the job done :p:

I wouldn't hold my breath, I have seen a few people be a bit unhappy with the player. You get what you pay for. Not saying it's a bad player but it's budget...


Mirage. I bought them in 1993.

And for the record my Universal player model is DVD-3910. It was the next one down from the flagship.

Decent enough setup...

Beat_Dominator
01-06-2007, 05:14 PM
I wouldn't hold my breath, I have seen a few people be a bit unhappy with the player. You get what you pay for. Not saying it's a bad player but it's budget...

I own one (1) SACD :p:

joetama
01-06-2007, 05:15 PM
I own one (1) SACD :p:

Nice.... You ever sell that pre-amp?

Beat_Dominator
01-06-2007, 05:18 PM
Not yet, you still gonna buy it? :laugh:

joetama
01-06-2007, 05:19 PM
Not yet, you still gonna buy it? :laugh:

Maybe? :laugh::up2somet::naughty::eek:

Beat_Dominator
01-06-2007, 05:23 PM
Lol what a jerk.

joetama
01-06-2007, 05:44 PM
Lol what a jerk.

I <3 U TOO.....

No, but seriously... How far are you from Vegas?

thylantyr
01-06-2007, 07:25 PM
People are always unhappy with audio gear whether it cost $100 or $20,000.
You have to analyze the situation to see what is really going on with audio electronics. If one doesn't have audio electronics skill + common sense, it will
be hard to filter out marketing voodoo and BS.

Take a page from Dungeons and Dragons regarding a balance of intelligence and
wisdom

"Intelligence tells you what the problem is and how to solve it, wisdom tells you whether or not you should."

There are many skilled electronics folks who would be high intelligence but
have weak wisdom. They insist on modding electronics because they really think
it's audible. They think it's audible because they lack wisdom and are gullible.

I work with such folks too. The trick for young people learning electronics found
in audio gear is to be wise while you gain intelligence in electronics. My knowledge is such
matters comes at an early age gaining intelligence and gaining wisdom by building circuits myself.
Just like D&D, you have to play the game to reach a higher level of understanding. You can
share the info with people so life becomes easier and their money can be spent wisely.
If you don't like the advice, I don't care. You are on your own quest. lol..........

Then you have the people that have no electronic skill, but all of a sudden
they make big assumptions about the audible effects of electronics when they
know nothing about circuits.

Point is. Telling people that budget sources is not good is BS.
There is no reason to spend big dollars on media players.

Beat_Dominator
01-06-2007, 07:31 PM
There are reasons, don't try to justify your poorness by telling us that a $20 portable CD player has the best SQ ever. :p:

elementxero
01-06-2007, 07:33 PM
People are always unhappy with audio gear whether it cost $100 or $20,000.
You have to analyze the situation to see what is really going on with audio electronics. If one doesn't have audio electronics skill + common sense, it will
be hard to filter out marketing voodoo and BS.

Take a page from Dungeons and Dragons regarding a balance of intelligence and
wisdom

"Intelligence tells you what the problem is and how to solve it, wisdom tells you whether or not you should."

There are many skilled electronics folks who would be high intelligence but
have weak wisdom. They insist on modding electronics because they really think
it's audible. They think it's audible because they lack wisdom and are gullible.

I work with such folks too. The trick for young people learning electronics found
in audio gear is to be wise while you gain intelligence in electronics. My knowledge is such
matters comes at an early age gaining intelligence and gaining wisdom by building circuits myself.
Just like D&D, you have to play the game to reach a higher level of understanding. You can
share the info with people so life becomes easier and their money can be spent wisely.
If you don't like the advice, I don't care. You are on your own quest. lol..........

Then you have the people that have no electronic skill, but all of a sudden
they make big assumptions about the audible effects of electronics when they
know nothing about circuits.

Point is. Telling people that budget sources is not good is BS.
There is no reason to spend big dollars on media players.



/nomination for #1 nerd stereotype ever

adam71
01-07-2007, 12:53 AM
"Intelligence tells you what the problem is and how to solve it, wisdom tells you whether or not you should."

There are many skilled electronics folks who would be high intelligence but
have weak wisdom. They insist on modding electronics because they really think
it's audible. They think it's audible because they lack wisdom and are gullible.

I work with such folks too. The trick for young people learning electronics found
in audio gear is to be wise while you gain intelligence in electronics. My knowledge is such
matters comes at an early age gaining intelligence and gaining wisdom by building circuits myself.
Just like D&D, you have to play the game to reach a higher level of understanding. You can
share the info with people so life becomes easier and their money can be spent wisely.
If you don't like the advice, I don't care. You are on your own quest. lol..........

Then you have the people that have no electronic skill, but all of a sudden
they make big assumptions about the audible effects of electronics when they
know nothing about circuits.

Point is. Telling people that budget sources is not good is BS.
There is no reason to spend big dollars on media players.

Now you can call me wrong but I went from a $150 universal DVD player to a $1300 universal DVD player. Are you trying to say that all the differences I notice with this are all in my head because I don't have any electronics engineering background?? I'm not calling you out but I hear what I hear. I may not take electronics components apart and look at them and understand how they work in depth but I know enough to have fun and enjoy the benefits of higher end equipment. I will say that lower cost equipment can be enjoyed just like higher end stuff but to say you can't make improvements by spending a little more money is false.

thylantyr
01-07-2007, 01:46 AM
There are reasons, don't try to justify your poorness by telling us that a $20 portable CD player has the best SQ ever. :p:

Portable players have analog stage noise problems because the application they
are designed for is different than a regular home audio install. If you are an
audio geek and wanted to prove their high SQ, then you need to bypass their
analog output stage and then it will work much better.

:crazy: :)

jmanpc
01-07-2007, 01:53 AM
One always enjoys cheap stuff until they have heard the real thing.





For example, I thought my Sony speakers off my Aiwa h/u with a pair of 12w0's was incredible. Then I heard a real system :laugh:

thylantyr
01-07-2007, 02:03 AM
Now you can call me wrong but I went from a $150 universal DVD player to a $1300 universal DVD player. Are you trying to say that all the differences I notice with this are all in my head

Are you listening to CD's or comparing other media?

If CD's - If the $150 player was a reputable brand then the SQ will be pretty high unless it had a design flaw that somehow made it past the engineers during design. An ABX would really tell you the true tale.

I have the same CD's from 20 years ago. Playing those CD's in modern players
sounds the same as it did playing them on players used 20 years ago.

Reading CD data and converting to analog for playback has been figured out
decades ago. It's simple stuff. Why would people think 20 years later that
it hasn't been figured out and there is some magical hidden potential ? Makes no sense. The root cause of SQ is the limitation of the CD technology.

People should buy higher end players for video because the video technology
changes and the eye is very sensitivity to PQ vs. the ear which isn't as precise an
instrument to hear changes in SQ, ie .. you can see 'gremlins' on a scope but
your ear won't detect them. You can see 'gremlins' on a video screen and identify
them easy.

thylantyr
01-07-2007, 02:06 AM
One always enjoys cheap stuff until they have heard the real thing.





For example, I thought my Sony speakers off my Aiwa h/u with a pair of 12w0's was incredible. Then I heard a real system :laugh:


The issue is not broad like your example. You are comparing one system
vs. another system. :laugh:

adam71
01-07-2007, 02:42 AM
Are you listening to CD's or comparing other media?

If CD's - If the $150 player was a reputable brand then the SQ will be pretty high unless it had a design flaw that somehow made it past the engineers during design. An ABX would really tell you the true tale.

I have the same CD's from 20 years ago. Playing those CD's in modern players
sounds the same as it did playing them on players used 20 years ago.

Reading CD data and converting to analog for playback has been figured out
decades ago. It's simple stuff. Why would people think 20 years later that
it hasn't been figured out and there is some magical hidden potential ? Makes no sense. The root cause of SQ is the limitation of the CD technology.

People should buy higher end players for video because the video technology
changes and the eye is very sensitivity to PQ vs. the ear which isn't as precise an
instrument to hear changes in SQ, ie .. you can see 'gremlins' on a scope but
your ear won't detect them. You can see 'gremlins' on a video screen and identify
them easy.

Truth is I did buy this player for my home theater and because it plays DVD movies. The fact that it plays CDs, SACDs, and DVD-Audio were contributing factors but not the deciding factors. But I will say that I disagree with your logic that all CD players are created equally. I will say that some players that are stand alone CD only players can be ridiculous. Personally I wouldn't buy a stand alone CD player (well not anymore since I have one already that I don't really use) this day and age. But I won't deny the benefits of having one if it was of good quality. I guess what I'm saying is that the quality differences between cheap and expensive CD players isn't the fact that they've discovered some new way of converting digital to analog. Its the fact that they use much higher quality construction, better output stages and a solid disc loading mechanism. Not to mention better circuitry. Is all that totally necessary?? Depends on who you ask. It all depends on what said individual is willing to spend and how much quality is enough.

Here is an outrageously priced CD player, I could never see this worthy of the price tag but I bet someone does.

http://store.acousticsounds.com/browse_detail.cfm?Title_ID=13160&section=


Where as this one is much cheaper but still on the expensive side depending on who you ask.

http://store.acousticsounds.com/browse_detail.cfm?Title_ID=15712

thylantyr
01-07-2007, 05:35 PM
When debating about CD players, we are mainly concerned with SQ not build
quality because most people will buy something because they heard something.

There is nothing wrong with spending more money on better build quality but that
will never guarantee better SQ over cheap build quality. Here's an example.

When you prototype an electronic circuit, build quality is **** poor.
http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/temp/PrototypeTop.jpg
http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/temp/PrototypeBottom.jpg

That prototype is a 1992 project of mine. Once you get it work even with
poor build quality, better build quality doesn't guarantee better performance.

The design with high build quality.
http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/temp/PcbTop.jpg
http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/temp/VoiceBlaster-Small.jpg

Which one works better? The proto or the final design? Both work the same,
but nobody would buy the proto because it's fugly.

With audio circuits, the issue is less important. With high speed circuits like
computing, build quality matters, but we are talking about high frequency
{gigabit} and/or high signal edge rates, none of this is found in audio circuits,
audio circuits are snail slow compares to modern computing.

joetama
01-09-2007, 06:02 AM
Well believe what you want. But, you get what you pay for. You pay more and might not know what they do, but you can hear it. If you can't hear the difference (which some can't)... Hhahaha... Then good for YOU. BUT OBVIOUSLY others can (adam71, Beat, and myself), otherwise everyone would have a line array and a cheap $100 player and just own CD's.

K thanks that is all.....

thylantyr
01-09-2007, 12:30 PM
It's an erroneous statement to say that low cost sources will not be as good
sounding as expensive sources. You can write a book on human perception of
audio and why throwing more money at the problem iimproves SQ.

Don't you find this funny-> People have been upgrading to better CD players
since the format come out decades ago thinking that they can get better sound.
Semiconductor technology moves forward.

.... then *bang*.... people are finding better sound by going back into the dinasaur era
where vinyl roams the land .. and guess what ... the dinosaur technology sounds better to them ...
talk about going back decades in technology to get better sound, how hillarious. Think about
this in great detail when you want to talk down a $100 CD player .. rofl.

Beat_Dominator
01-09-2007, 12:38 PM
Vinyl has an effective infinite sampling rate.... this is why it can sound better than redbook cd with it's forced 16/44.1...... Bob Stuart of Meridian who is one of the biggest fans of CD (he thinks vinyl is crap) said himself that a 20bit/78khz recording is just about perfect for digital.

thylantyr
01-09-2007, 01:15 PM
Vinyl has an effective infinite sampling rate....

And other sonic gremlins worse than CD :laugh:

Bob Stuart of Meridian who is one of the biggest fans of CD (he thinks vinyl is crap)

It is :)

Beat_Dominator
01-09-2007, 01:16 PM
Shh, pops, wow, flutter, etc sound GREAT!

thylantyr
01-09-2007, 01:25 PM
Someday I want to an extreme ABX test. MP3 vs. CD and watch people fail. lol
Doesn't get more hardcore than that. Compressed canibalized vs. canibalized sound.

azbass
01-09-2007, 01:26 PM
i like vinyl noise.

LeofromtheH
01-09-2007, 01:38 PM
gay

joetama
01-10-2007, 12:46 PM
MP3 definatly sounds bad.... I can't stand to listen to it...

heyman421
01-10-2007, 01:20 PM
depends

sounds bad on headphones, and nice stereos, but you can't tell the difference on small-form computer speakers

the newer mpeg 4 based compressions sound much better, tho

Beat_Dominator
01-10-2007, 01:23 PM
It's all crap. Live sound ftw.

CBFryman2
01-10-2007, 01:25 PM
No that is crap too...the moon FTW.

ballstothewall
01-10-2007, 01:34 PM
depends

sounds bad on headphones, and nice stereos, but you can't tell the difference on small-form computer speakers

the newer mpeg 4 based compressions sound much better, tho

But when you listen to your computer with nice headphones...

joetama
01-10-2007, 09:31 PM
depends

sounds bad on headphones, and nice stereos, but you can't tell the difference on small-form computer speakers

the newer mpeg 4 based compressions sound much better, tho

I can stand MP3 on some headphones, MDR-V6 yes HD-580 no. mpeg 4 is better for sure.


It's all crap. Live sound ftw.

When it's mixed right and the right PA. I grew up with my dad owning a PA company so I have heard some pretty terrible live sound and am more critical with live than anything.

azbass
01-10-2007, 09:34 PM
It's all crap. Live sound ftw.

how do you fit the band in to your car? or have em play on your hood?