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THXdts
12-05-2006, 04:20 PM
Do you guys think that the ethonal in gas is effecting your gas milage? I think it is, just wanting to get some other opinions.

CBFryman2
12-05-2006, 05:11 PM
Unless you are running E-50 + you should not see any difference...if you are running E-50 + you will know you are putting it in your tank as most unmodified tanks wont hold any more than E25 for very long because they use fittings that ethanol acts as a catalyst for corrosion on.

Even running E85 differences can be made up for with your foot. IE they are hardly noticable.

Ethanol is good ****.

THXdts
12-05-2006, 05:19 PM
No like on the pumps is says contains 10% ethonal..

heyman421
12-05-2006, 05:20 PM
That question has a lot of different answers, hahaha.

Ethanol has fewer btu's per unit than gasoline, but a higher resistance to knock.

In a conventional gasoline engine, you'll consume the same amount of fuel regardless of concentration of ethanol, but make less power the higher the concentration at any given engine speed.

In an engine designed to utilize dual-fuels, the higher the concentration of ethanol, the more fuel you'll consume, but power will stay relatively the same. In a naturally aspirated dual-fuel engine, the ignition timing is advanced the higher the concentration of ethanol, and in a f/i dual fuel engine, boost is increased as ethanol concentration is increased.

CBFryman2
12-05-2006, 05:22 PM
No like on the pumps is says contains 10% ethonal..

That is E10 :fyi:

ssj2xxgotenxx
12-05-2006, 05:23 PM
Do you guys think that the ethonal in gas is effecting your gas milage? I think it is, just wanting to get some other opinions.


No like on the pumps is says contains 10% ethonal..

EthanOL... it's an Alcohol group, not an Aldehyde group.

CBFryman2
12-05-2006, 05:23 PM
Newer E-85 engines usually have knock sensors and when you run E-85 the engine runs more efficent because it automatically advances timing to just below knock. In that case you could actually gain some MPG.

What that means is, even though your fuel contains less energy, you are using that energy more efficently.

heyman421
12-05-2006, 05:24 PM
Oh, and to further complicate the original answer, a conventional engine will show no change in fuel economy with an ethanol mix while cruising, but you'll have to spend more time in lower gars accelerating, which is what may be causing you decreased fuel economy.


At a constant speed, at the peak of your torque curve, your car would get the same fuel economy with 0%, 10% or 20% ethanol.

Johnny Drama
12-05-2006, 05:25 PM
I am no engineer or ethanol expert, but it does seem to me that my milage has gone down.

When I go out of town I fill up with the 10% ethanol and get ~385 miles a tank. I usually fill up at the same place when I go to Arkansas and I know it doesnt contain the same 10% mixture. I usually average ~430 miles a tank and have seen up to 470 miles max.

CBFryman2
12-05-2006, 05:27 PM
That isnt from the 10% change in ethanol. I will tell you that. E-10 doesnt have that much less energy compared to Gasoline.

Rich B
12-05-2006, 05:29 PM
Do you guys think that the ethonal in gas is effecting your gas milage? I think it is, just wanting to get some other opinions.


I always get worse milage here in California when we're forced to use the winter formula (with higher % of ethanol) just before Holloween .

I lose nearly 2 MPG, and the performance ***** too.

heyman421
12-05-2006, 05:30 PM
It may just be crappy gas.

Ask for a delivery receipt next time you get gas there.

THXdts
12-05-2006, 05:30 PM
That isnt from the 10% change in ethanol. I will tell you that. E-10 doesnt have that much less energy compared to Gasoline.

Well what is in then..?

brendan_121212
12-05-2006, 05:32 PM
Ethanol is a fraud. It takes more energy to grow corn than it gives you in return. Ethanol has less energy per gallon than gasoline, (so you lose MPG) When ethanol is mixed with gasoline it creates more evaporative emissions. Also with gasoline it releases more pollutants like PAN (Peroxyacetylnitrate) into the air, Also more nitrgen oxides. It takes atleast 10 liters of freshwater to make 1 liter of ethanol. The ethanol industry is a highly subsidized industry which uses your tax dollars to cover the high costs of production. So if you think your helping the environment with ethanol, your misguided. You are way better off to make sure your tires are properly inflated, than use ethanol.

CBFryman2
12-05-2006, 05:33 PM
Here are your options

1.) It's all in your head
2.) It's all in your driving habits
3.) It's all in your miscalculations
4.) You are geussing and not actually calculating
5.) Weather changes, engines run less efficent cold (however it is more efficent/better to drive with a cold engine than to let it idle to get warm)
6.) They are using lower quality gasoline when mixing the fuel and your engine is retarding timing to reduce knock.

THXdts
12-05-2006, 05:33 PM
I always get worse milage here in California when we're forced to use the winter formula (with higher % of ethanol) just before Holloween .

I lose nearly 2 MPG, and the performance ***** too.

That is about the loss I have to I beleive.

CBFryman2
12-05-2006, 05:34 PM
Ethanol is a fraud. It takes more energy to grow corn than it gives you in return. Ethanol has less energy per gallon than gasoline, (so you lose MPG) When ethanol is mixed with gasoline it creates more evaporative emissions. Also with gasoline it releases more pollutants like PAN (Peroxyacetylnitrate) into the air, Also more nitrgen oxides. It takes atleast 10 liters of freshwater to make 1 liter of ethanol. The ethanol industry is a highly subsidized industry which uses your tax dollars to cover the high costs of production. So if you think your helping the environment with ethanol, your misguided. You are way better off to make sure your tires are properly inflated, than use ethanol.

Wow, you really dont know what you are talking about do you?

THXdts
12-05-2006, 05:34 PM
Here are your options

1.) It's all in your head
2.) It's all in your driving habits
3.) It's all in your miscalculations
4.) You are geussing and not actually calculating
5.) Weather changes, engines run less efficent cold (however it is more efficent/better to drive with a cold engine than to let it idle to get warm)
6.) They are using lower quality gasoline when mixing the fuel and your engine is retarding timing to reduce knock.

Well, it looks like alot of people agree that is does decrease MPG.. Just wanted some opinions.

faulkton
12-05-2006, 05:39 PM
yeah i don't care about your facts i still hate ethanol.

CBFryman2
12-05-2006, 05:40 PM
I love ethanol...not just for a Fuel either. :naughty:

Johnny Drama
12-05-2006, 05:45 PM
Just a quick 2 minute search from one of the main ethanol sites...

Q: How does ethanol affect gas mileage?
A:</B>While there are many variables that affect fuel economy (weather, car condition, road grade, tire pressure, air conditioner use, etc.), studies indicate that fuel economy with ethanol-enriched fuels may decrease by about 2 percent in fuel-injected cars. So cars that average 30 MPG on the highway would average about 29.4 with ethanol-enriched fuel. This is only a slight variance that probably won’t be noticed by the average driver.

CBFryman2
12-05-2006, 05:54 PM
Just a quick 2 minute search from one of the main ethanol sites...

Q: How does ethanol affect gas mileage?
A:</B>While there are many variables that affect fuel economy (weather, car condition, road grade, tire pressure, air conditioner use, etc.), studies indicate that fuel economy with ethanol-enriched fuels may decrease by about 2 percent in fuel-injected cars. So cars that average 30 MPG on the highway would average about 29.4 with ethanol-enriched fuel. This is only a slight variance that probably won’t be noticed by the average driver.

Basically what we've said. Thanks for looking it up. :)

By Ethanol Enriched fuels I'm assuming they mean higher grade too (E-20+), not E-10.

Johnny Drama
12-05-2006, 05:55 PM
Basically what we've said. Thanks for looking it up. :)

By Ethanol Enriched fuels I'm assuming they mean higher grade too (E-20+), not E-10.


No...this was specifically in the E10 section of the site. Each had a FAQ section.

CBFryman2
12-05-2006, 05:56 PM
Meh.

:laugh:

brendan_121212
12-05-2006, 06:36 PM
Wow, you really dont know what you are talking about do you?

Anyone can make an energy balance showing net energy gain, if you leave out all the inputs. If you include all inputs, like David Pimentel, and Tad Patzek did, you will see a net energy loss. At most ethanol can be a break even situation. Biodiesel is a different story, with biodiesel there may be a slight energy gain.



Ethanol-in-gasoline seriously pollutes the air (Hodge, 2002). The reactivity of the combined exhaust and evaporative emissions using the ethanol-blended reformulated gasoline is estimated to be about 17% larger than those using the MTBE-blended reformulated gasoline (NRC, 1999). Ethanol does reduce the carbon monoxide emissions, but increases those of nitrogen oxides (NOx), acetaldehyde, and peroxy-acetyl-nitrate (PAN) (Rice et al., 1999).
(http://petroleum.berkeley.edu/papers/patzek/CRPS416-Patzek-Web.pdf, Page 72)

So if you and everyone would just read something instead of believing all the hype and false studies, maybe everyone can focus there energy on better alternatives to energy consumption.

Russ Raymer
12-09-2006, 04:52 PM
From what i have seen E-85 will hurt your gas milage a little bit.