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View Full Version : 6.5" Comps, minimal power consumption--factory wire?



elementxero
11-29-2006, 11:09 PM
Yo--

Starting to sketch in ideas for my new setup on my brand new 2007 Mazda3 (love this car btw, best value ever <3)

I am nervous and extremely apprehensive about cutting into this 300-mile car, and from what I have read, in order to put in my own speaker wire I'd have to do just that, drill through the doors, etc.

But I have room for 6.5's and tweeters and I always wanted components. My old cars were too old to fit them without massive fabrication (I'm not quite that DIY if you haven't noticed--too clumsy).

So my call is to use the factory speaker wire and mounting locations (with a MDF plate for the 6.5s.....factory hole is 6x8). Since the factory wire is 18ga, I can't be pumping 125w per speaker safely (or can I?).

Are there any GOOD component sets that are designed to run off 75wrms or less? 50wrms @ 4ohms would be great since I have a RF2002 laying around that I'll have to sell if I don't use.

Notwerk
11-30-2006, 12:24 AM
Any components will run perfectly fine off of 50-75 watts (unless your aim is to deafen the guy in the car next to you). Remember that a speaker that is rated at 90db of sensitivity will produce 90db with ONE watt at ONE meter. In a nearfield environment like a car, that's plenty loud. Evertime you double that power, you're looking at another 3db. So, the difference between 50 watts and 100 is 3db, not really a world of difference. It's far more important to install well and properly set the gains than throw a bunch of power at a speaker, which may shorten the lifespan of the driver, anyway. Driver selection and install are far more important than power. After 50 watts, everything is gravy (unless you're building an SPL system or something crazy like that :))

And yes, you can probably run that much power into the factory wire. But the caveat is that it isn't optimal. You're going to lose some of that power because of the increased resistance from the thinner wire. Of course, over a short run, from the dash to the door, it's a pretty negligible difference. People in the car audio world make WAY too much of a big deal about the gauge of speaker wire. With power wire, it's important. Speaker wire? Not so much.

Also, if you go that route, you'd have to place the passive crossover inside the door. Nothing wrong with that, but take care to put the crossover in a safe place where they won't be damaged or get wet.

Congrats on the new car. I had my eye on a 3 hatch, but I'm holding off (maybe saving for a Miata ;))

acold7dusta
11-30-2006, 12:27 AM
high end comps need more power to get them to there full potential

underpowering them will sound muddy, dull, and dead

but to answer your question, take a listen to the diamond D3 line, friends got em and i LOVE the tweeter, the midbass wasnt all up to par, but they were only the 5.25s and they only needed like 40 rms

Notwerk
11-30-2006, 01:13 AM
high end comps need more power to get them to there full potential

underpowering them will sound muddy, dull, and dead



That's not accurate, but OK...

dvrmstrng
11-30-2006, 01:16 AM
^^^ totally disagree

Notwerk
11-30-2006, 01:19 AM
Show me a single measurement that proves otherwise.

T3mpest
11-30-2006, 02:45 AM
Show me a single measurement that proves otherwise.

very true, think about it. With the average crest factor on music your rarely sending speakers more than 20 watts, even with agressive listening, like really agressive you'd be hard pressed to use more than 60 watts. Most larger amps are overkill, espeically if your just looking for good sound. I've ran a fronstage off a 40 watt amp before, it got plently loud before the frontstage ran out of juice.

ps. just looked at how I quoted, i was agreeing with you;)

Notwerk
11-30-2006, 04:33 AM
I'll keep saying it until I'm blue in the face, but no one listens. They've bought into the "overhead" myth. Doesn't make any sense to me.

I learned this, coincidentally, from instrument amplifiers. A 15-watt guitar amp can be punishingly loud, provided it's teamed with the right cab. All the kiddies run around with 100-watt transistor amps and wonder why it sounds like crap and then get floored when a they hear a Fuchs Lucky Seven blow away their Randall.

Seven watts can be A LOT of power. More than you need, really. But people don't listen...They'll keep thinking that more is better, even when it reaches the point of absurdity.

T3mpest
11-30-2006, 07:07 AM
high end comps need more power to get them to there full potential

underpowering them will sound muddy, dull, and dead

but to answer your question, take a listen to the diamond D3 line, friends got em and i LOVE the tweeter, the midbass wasnt all up to par, but they were only the 5.25s and they only needed like 40 rms

Let's analyze this for 1 moment. So I'm assuming your high end components are running at full volume with the gains as high as you can get them without clipping, all the times right? I mean, if you put a 1000 watt ampon an speaker, but only listen to it at a low volume, it might only be putting out 15 watts. That's no differnet than running a 45 watt amp at 15 watts. So really, all components should sound muddy, dull and dead at all any low volume. That is what your saying, right? :laugh:

Poor 06 kids...

Notwerk
11-30-2006, 07:34 AM
That's what the LOUDNESS button is for :D

elementxero
11-30-2006, 08:53 AM
Hah. Interesting discussion :)

Alright, so assuming I keep my RF2002 to push 50wrms @ 4Ohms to a set of components, what are some sets I should be looking at? Looking to spend 150-200$.

Notwerk
11-30-2006, 10:51 AM
You have lots of options in that price range. This has been posted before (I know I've done several $200 component posts), but I'll give you a couple of suggestions.

http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3587 Helix Esprit
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=4965 Zapco I-Force
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=4728 Oz Vector
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=4985 Pioneer Premier PRS
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3372 Focal Access
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3083 Alpine Type-X
http://www.cardomain.com/item/PIOTSC160R Pioneer Rev
http://www.infinitecaraudio.com/cgi-bin/icastore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=CPE60S Crystal Mobile Sound CPE
http://www.infinitecaraudio.com/cgi-bin/icastore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=SSCS6 Crystal Mobile Sound SSCS
http://www.infinitecaraudio.com/cgi-bin/icastore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=DLSR6A DLS R6A
http://www.infinitecaraudio.com/cgi-bin/icastore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=DLSMS6 DLS Magnesium
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=6817790.29672&pid=1969 Peerless Definition
http://www.exilecaraudio.com/2006/products/components/ Exile XP. You'll need a local dealer for these, but Exile does direct sales if a dealer isn't available. Drop Morgan an e-mail through the site.

I don't necessarily suggest buying from those sources, as they aren't necessarily the best price or even authorized to sell those particular products (if you care about that sort of thing), but you can read up and maybe find local shops to listen at. Some members here also deal some of these and can probably do better price-wise than these sites can.

EDIT: Made that a little easier to figure out. Yeah, I had the Oz Vectors already on there. Good stuff for the money.

addisdar
11-30-2006, 10:57 AM
You might want to check out the OZ Vector Series comps for that power handling and price range.

phenryiv1
11-30-2006, 03:52 PM
The Pioneer REV components are getting good reviews as well, and seem to have high efficiency ratings, as well.

What may kill you is running them off of your stock HU (I read another post where you stated that you want to keep the stock HU).

I am considering the REVs running off of a Pioneer HU that pushes only 12 watts "RMS" (so Pioneer says). I was told that these were fairly efficient, and @ $150-160, are in your budget.

MisterGrubbs
11-30-2006, 03:55 PM
Finally heard some, and I will say

Pioneer REV's for the effing win

Things get impressively loud with just a cd player, I'm throwing 70x4 on some coaxes in a few weeks and I cant wait

From what I've heard of them, they sound great, and with a little power should get rediculously loud, quality isnt half bad on them honestly

phenryiv1
11-30-2006, 04:00 PM
Finally heard some, and I will say

Pioneer REV's for the effing win

Things get impressively loud with just a cd player, I'm throwing 70x4 on some coaxes in a few weeks and I cant wait

Did you hear the components or the coaxials?

elementxero
11-30-2006, 04:24 PM
The Pioneer REV components are getting good reviews as well, and seem to have high efficiency ratings, as well.

What may kill you is running them off of your stock HU (I read another post where you stated that you want to keep the stock HU).

I am considering the REVs running off of a Pioneer HU that pushes only 12 watts "RMS" (so Pioneer says). I was told that these were fairly efficient, and @ $150-160, are in your budget.

I'm not running them off the HU power, but I am running the stock HU. I will be using an LOC of some flavor, probably an offering from audiocontrol. They will be amped with 50wrms each @ 4Ohms from my RF2002 amp.

bri487
11-30-2006, 05:33 PM
Did you hear the components or the coaxials?

for a coaxial, the revs are one of the best, for comps, forget it.

phenryiv1
12-01-2006, 09:23 AM
for a coaxial, the revs are one of the best, for comps, forget it.

Obviously, there are MUCH better components on the market. Given the REV component price point, the question is, if running off of HU power, is it better to run REV coaxials, or spend the extra $50 and get the components, in the event that you amp them later?

(Sorry, elementxero, I kind-of piggybacked your thread) :)

phenryiv1
12-01-2006, 09:25 AM
I'm not running them off the HU power, but I am running the stock HU. I will be using an LOC of some flavor, probably an offering from audiocontrol. They will be amped with 50wrms each @ 4Ohms from my RF2002 amp.

Does PAC make an adapter for the Mazda OEM HU? I know that they made good stuff for the OEM BOSE system in my old Maxima/Infiniti vehicles. Audiocontrol is obviously good stuff, but the PACs were plug-and-play LOCs that were of very high quality (for an LOC, that is).

elementxero
12-01-2006, 02:16 PM
Does PAC make an adapter for the Mazda OEM HU? I know that they made good stuff for the OEM BOSE system in my old Maxima/Infiniti vehicles. Audiocontrol is obviously good stuff, but the PACs were plug-and-play LOCs that were of very high quality (for an LOC, that is).

I'll check it out. But my system is NOT bose, so luckily I won't have to deal with the tuning nightmare that comes with that territory and running stock HU :P

phenryiv1
12-01-2006, 02:22 PM
I'll check it out. But my system is NOT bose, so luckily I won't have to deal with the tuning nightmare that comes with that territory and running stock HU :P

I was just suggesting them based on personal experience. They also did Ford/JBL, BMW/HK, etc.

Something like http://www.tune-town.com/Cars/stuff/pac/oem2.htm might work.

dvrmstrng
12-02-2006, 10:09 PM
ditch your stock HU...best decision i ever made

elementxero
12-03-2006, 07:25 PM
ditch your stock HU...best decision i ever made

Can't do it man, brand new car and the factory dash is a lot of what I like about it asthetically. :P

elementxero
12-07-2006, 10:04 PM
You have lots of options in that price range. This has been posted before (I know I've done several $200 component posts), but I'll give you a couple of suggestions.

http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3587 Helix Esprit
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=4965 Zapco I-Force
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=4728 Oz Vector
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=4985 Pioneer Premier PRS
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3372 Focal Access
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3083 Alpine Type-X
http://www.cardomain.com/item/PIOTSC160R Pioneer Rev
http://www.infinitecaraudio.com/cgi-bin/icastore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=CPE60S Crystal Mobile Sound CPE
http://www.infinitecaraudio.com/cgi-bin/icastore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=SSCS6 Crystal Mobile Sound SSCS
http://www.infinitecaraudio.com/cgi-bin/icastore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=DLSR6A DLS R6A
http://www.infinitecaraudio.com/cgi-bin/icastore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=DLSMS6 DLS Magnesium
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=6817790.29672&pid=1969 Peerless Definition
http://www.exilecaraudio.com/2006/products/components/ Exile XP. You'll need a local dealer for these, but Exile does direct sales if a dealer isn't available. Drop Morgan an e-mail through the site.

I don't necessarily suggest buying from those sources, as they aren't necessarily the best price or even authorized to sell those particular products (if you care about that sort of thing), but you can read up and maybe find local shops to listen at. Some members here also deal some of these and can probably do better price-wise than these sites can.

EDIT: Made that a little easier to figure out. Yeah, I had the Oz Vectors already on there. Good stuff for the money.


Yo I'm lookin at speakers more seriously now and I gotta just go back and say thanks alot for making such a helpful post, that's above and beyond.....most people just rattle off their favorite brand or the set of the month. 'Preciate it, big help.

Notwerk
12-08-2006, 01:41 AM
No prob, man. Hope it helps.

mlstrass
12-09-2006, 01:30 PM
Why can't you run new speaker wire through the same spot as the factory wire?? Will take a little work, but it can be done. Or if you have to drill a new hole next to the factory wiring you can get a rubber grommet/boot at any auto parts store to make it look factory.

LOTS of speaker choices, so try to get out and demo some. Circuit City should have the REV's on their board. I'm running them amped for rear fill and VERY happy with them.

elementxero
12-10-2006, 10:17 PM
Eh from what I've read on mazda3forums I'd have to drill into the door to get new wire in there, and I am sketched out by the idea of that.