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View Full Version : which sub for in my room?



pimpedout97x
11-25-2006, 11:22 AM
ive made a few threads on this before...i was gonna do a 12" mt, but im thinkin i want something thatll hit the lows a little better, and a little better SQ. what i have to work with power wise is a Behringer EP1500, which the most power i can get out of this amp is 1,400 watts RMS @ 4 ohms. i dont want to take the chance wiring is to 2 or 1 ohm (it can take 2, but not bridged...@ 2 ohm its 700w rms x 2)

anyways, i want a 12, and the box, well i can deal with a 4 or 5 cubic foot box....its going to be bulit with birch and stained, so looks wont be an issue, i think itll look real nice. ive also got all my dayton mids that im building 2 towers for (copying a DIY setup from partsexpress) and i will be staining those as well.

what subs do i have to choose from thatll get loud, sound good, and hit lows pretty good. i only want 1 sub, and im pretty much stuck on 1 12". its just gotta be able to take 1400w rms daily, and btw, its only for rap, this isnt a HT setup for movies or anything...and i listen to music alot in my room....so...

anyways...throw out some suggestions...how much power can a 12" Q handle?

joetama
11-27-2006, 02:35 AM
Q maybe? Is this going to be for movies or music?

Calikid
11-27-2006, 02:36 AM
i would also go with the Q

mtdewelf
11-27-2006, 02:37 AM
Probably too much power, so maybe two, but I always have the adire Tempest pop into my head when thinking of what to use in home.

Are they not as great as I remember hearing about when they were released? or just not around as much?

pimpedout97x
11-27-2006, 07:56 PM
Q maybe? Is this going to be for movies or music?

music.

joetama
11-27-2006, 10:47 PM
music.

Q sealed..... Either way for home audio sealed seems to work better to my ears....

ngsm13
11-28-2006, 12:34 AM
If you got a custom MT or BTL... with like dual soft spiders... that would be wicked loud...

Run it in like 3cubes ported in the low 20's...

nG

1loudsuv
11-28-2006, 12:37 AM
look into svs subs

http://www.svsound.com/

this is what i know their killer loud and someone put 4-15" fi's not sure wich model number i think it was the q's with 6000 watts rms and he claims that the svs ultra2 wich i have can hang iwth his 4-15s and i dont doubt it one big i know my setup can flex the tv screen :up2somet: :naughty: but i need better sq for my highs their heh :crap:

ngsm13
11-28-2006, 12:42 AM
look into svs subs

http://www.svsound.com/

this is what i know their killer loud and someone put 4-15" fi's not sure wich model number i think it was the q's with 6000 watts rms and he claims that the svs ultra2 wich i have can hang iwth his 4-15s and i dont doubt it one big i know my setup can flex the tv screen :up2somet: :naughty: but i need better sq for my highs their heh :crap:

Lawl... TC based subs.

Also... they're $2000!!!!!!!

Boo.

nG

joetama
11-28-2006, 01:54 AM
The $2000 model has about $2000 worth of stuff in it.

Lets say the amp is about $800-$1000 for that model amp. 1000 watts of clean power.

The speaker is probably close in price, for you and me, to the LMS-4000 or the TC-3000 so ~$700 to ~$900.

Now, with out throwing in box construction, research, tuning, packing, and finishing we have about
$1500-$1900. And since they are a business and in buesiness to make money they have to add price onto that. So, the $2000 price tag doesn't seem too high now....

ngsm13
11-28-2006, 02:20 AM
The $2000 model has about $2000 worth of stuff in it.

Lets say the amp is about $800-$1000 for that model amp. 1000 watts of clean power.

The speaker is probably close in price, for you and me, to the LMS-4000 or the TC-3000 so ~$700 to ~$900.

Now, with out throwing in box construction, research, tuning, packing, and finishing we have about
$1500-$1900. And since they are a business and in buesiness to make money they have to add price onto that. So, the $2000 price tag doesn't seem too high now....

My BASH500 watt amplifier was $200. So, 1000watt should be less than double... $350. Plus they more than likely buy direct, and have a wholesale/OEM account. But we won't worry about that...

Those drivers from TC, OEM build... say they're similar to TC3000s... retail of $690. Now it's an OEM account... so take like 30-40% off. So, round up ~$450 for the drivers.

Take parts such as wood/ports/wiring/terminals, $100.

So, ~$900... leaving them $1100 for R&D and Profit.

nG

joetama
11-28-2006, 02:30 AM
I disagree with you on the amp... It is a little different series than the ol parts express one. And as we all can argue for hours a watt is a watt but they can be done all sorts of ways. In the 2k one there are 2 drives by the way. Plus, good quality parts cost you more than at the local 5 and 10 store. Plus you forget you have to pay the person who is putting it together, and health, and taxes, and marketing, and blah blah blah, and all bloody sorts of stupid things to run a business. So I'm sure they are turning a mighty good profit, but let's not turn too much like ol' thy there.

ngsm13
11-28-2006, 02:37 AM
It wouldn't be profitable unless they basically sell it for twice as much as it costs...

Maybe a little less margin b/c they're a small company...

nG

joetama
11-28-2006, 02:44 AM
It just annoys me that people think that they can DIY better than any company out there.... Is very true in some cases, but not in others. Hence the reason companies exist, but build a product that we want, and to take the time to engineer and build a product that we either don't have time for or skills to do. And, seriously, twice as much I don't think so. Unless you are a international corporation who steps on everyone else's neck twice as much is a bit high. Unless you are Bose...

ngsm13
11-28-2006, 02:47 AM
Eh... think retail. I guarantee you it cost Pioneer less than $1750 to make a 42" Pioneer Elite Plasma... hell, I guarantee you it cost less than $1000...

nG

joetama
11-28-2006, 02:55 AM
Eh... think retail. I guarantee you it cost Pioneer less than $1750 to make a 42" Pioneer Elite Plasma... hell, I guarantee you it cost less than $1000...

nG

I think you need to start going to class, if you want to be in the business world my friend. I think you also need to think about how business really works. You don't buy materials for price A sell them for price B and have B-A=profits. A good business return is about 10%-20%. So if that is a $2000 piece they are making $200-$400 on the sale of it profit after all expenses direct and indirect. If you donít believe me come to class on Wednesday and ask powers. Or I can call up the old accounting lady from R. G. and she can tell you. If you have a way to open a company where you are making 50%, I suggest you do it.

ngsm13
11-28-2006, 03:11 AM
Not the company, retail.

Think Circuit ******.... car audio for example.

We get Kicker Comps for say... $~50-60 and sell them for $109 each...

I'm not saying everything either... oh... and what was the good ol' cost to profit ratio you said there was on cell phone accessories?

Retail you have high and low margin... there's plenty of both.

nG

joetama
11-28-2006, 03:14 AM
Are you taking a **** here???? OK did you get paid when you worked there? Where did that money come from? Making something off that sale, but it isn't PROFIT because they didn't stick that money in the bank and clam it their own, they had to give it to you. The direct sale there is a high % but there are other factors than just the cost of a product. A good rule of thumb is the more a product costs the less the total gain from selling it. Meaning if you are selling something that is $2000 there is more cost (not talking about just price to build but marketing, people, time etc) to it than something that is $20. However, you have to sell less of the $2000 product than the $20 product to get the the same profit. So, it works out about equal.

Make sense? Or should I draw you a picture?

ngsm13
11-28-2006, 03:32 AM
Ok, I've been using the wrong terminology. Profit put aside. I'm fully aware they don't NET that much profit. Say GROSS profit.

I bet you they could easily make that subwoofer setup for less than $1000.
So that leaves them with $1000 GROSS profit. I agree that after paying for website costs, payroll of employees, R&D, the NET profit is much less.

That's where we were running around in circles... I was talking about GROSS... you talking about NET.

nG

joetama
11-28-2006, 03:33 AM
I doubt you can build one as good as them... ;)

If you can you should sell them!

BTW, gross doesn't mean SH*T to me.... I'm in business remember... ;)

ngsm13
11-28-2006, 03:34 AM
I doubt you can build one as good as them... ;)

If you can you should sell them!

I'll build one better. But a one-off would cost quite a bit more.

nG

joetama
11-28-2006, 03:37 AM
I'll build one better. But a one-off would cost quite a bit more.

nG

Well then I challenge you to do it... I bet it would get louder, but not sound as good... ;)

Have I hit a nerve yet?

ngsm13
11-28-2006, 03:39 AM
No, I don't get pissed off by little n00bx. ;)

Friends don't get at me real easy...

Whatever I make... I'll plaster a big B&W logo on it. You'll instantly be in love! :D

nG

creyc
11-28-2006, 03:40 AM
First, for home audio I would not use a car audio subwoofer.

What kind of budget do you have? At 4ohms and pretty cheap, you could do a Ciare 12.00 SW, http://www.usspeaker.com/ciare%201200sw-1.htm That would take 1000 watts easy, and its only $240.

You could also do a JBL professional 15" driver, the 2226: http://www.usspeaker.com/JBL%202226h-1.htm Pretty affordable and very good sound. You might be pushing it with 1000 watts, but those JBLs are known to take a beating.

1loudsuv
11-28-2006, 03:42 AM
all i know is that the svs ultra cannot be beat for less money diy or not..... guy tried it with 4-15"s and double the power and got the same output. me ive tried building a different box for the setup and the lows jsut werent their. they put alot of work in their enclosures. take in mind the sub weighs close to 200 lbs i think its 190


and their $400 sub sounds really good to so you dont need to spend thousands. and yes the amp they use is different then the ones they sell on parts express.

now stop fighting none of us here know how much is put into them or how much profit they make.

ngsm13
11-28-2006, 03:50 AM
For the price, I doubt much can beat them.

nG

joetama
11-28-2006, 03:52 AM
No, I don't get pissed off by little n00bx. ;)

Friends don't get at me real easy...

Whatever I make... I'll plaster a big B&W logo on it. You'll instantly be in love! :D

nG

I don't think I'm the n00bx my friend, and frankly I don't care what you think :D. I just have a much different view than you because of my background.

Well it's all in good fun... But B&W does sound better than anything else you have heard.

And I don't love everything that B&W had done and just because it has the B&W logo doesn't mean I'll instantly be in love. I think there are a lot better subs out there than B&W.

I'm not your buddy in C-Bus and ASSendent. ;)


all i know is that the svs ultra cannot be beat for less money diy or not..... guy tried it with 4-15"s and double the power and got the same output. me ive tried building a different box for the setup and the lows jsut werent their. they put alot of work in their enclosures. take in mind the sub weighs close to 200 lbs i think its 190


and their $400 sub sounds really good to so you dont need to spend thousands. and yes the amp they use is different then the ones they sell on parts express.

now stop fighting none of us here know how much is put into them or how much profit they make.


Haha... Agreed! It's all in good fun. I like to push on Noah's 'infinate' audio wisdom... ;)



Noah you should try this discussion with old Andy and see how far you get!

joetama
11-28-2006, 03:54 AM
For the price, I doubt much can beat them.

nG

Wait, stop, hold up... Did you just jump sides of the issue???

Haha, anyway... I'm going to bed....

ngsm13
11-28-2006, 03:54 AM
Ok.

And I think the word you were looking for is...

Infinite

Honey. ;)

nG

creyc
11-28-2006, 03:55 AM
Perhaps, but he's not doing home theater and SVS is way into HT...

Oh B&W, what speakers do you use from B&W?

ngsm13
11-28-2006, 03:56 AM
Wait, stop, hold up... Did you just jump sides of the issue???

Haha, anyway... I'm going to bed....

Apparently you can't read. :rolleyes: :laugh:


I'll build one better. But a one-off would cost quite a bit more.

nG

That was just a few posts up... :)

nG

joetama
11-28-2006, 03:59 AM
Ok.

And I think the word you were looking for is...

Infinite

Honey. ;)

nG

Thanks for corecting mi speling Sugar Pie.... It's a goood way to now who one or loost and arguiment bi who stats moving teh bows to belouw the belt with petty litle thingss....

ngsm13
11-28-2006, 04:00 AM
Thanks for corecting mi speling Sugar Pie.... It's a goood way to now who one or loost and arguiment bi who stats moving teh bows to belouw the belt with petty litle thingss....

At least I can teh reads. Mr. Wannabe Englishman.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

nG

joetama
11-28-2006, 04:00 AM
Perhaps, but he's not doing home theater and SVS is way into HT...

Oh B&W, what speakers do you use from B&W?

703's front, DM601S3 rear, HTM-7 center.... My fathers got the 804's too....

ngsm13
11-28-2006, 04:02 AM
Those crappy $35 mids and $35 tweets from ascendant are WAY the better's than the Bangy & Wankery stuff...

Everyone knows that. Fat mike says so.

Durr.

nG

joetama
11-28-2006, 04:03 AM
At least I can teh reads. Mr. Wannabe Englishman.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

nG

Oh yea? Good one man... I think you proved my point.... I'm off to visit with my pillow....

ngsm13
11-28-2006, 04:04 AM
You don't have a point, you never do.

nG

joetama
11-28-2006, 04:05 AM
Those crappy $35 mids and $35 tweets from ascendant are WAY the better's than the Bangy & Wankery stuff...

Everyone knows that. Fat mike says so.

Durr.

nG


Har har har.... Someone's got a sense of humor....

We all know ASSendent is WAY better than B&W.... Just ask anyone who doesn't know....

Oh and Ohio College football ***** ;)

ngsm13
11-28-2006, 04:06 AM
Har har har.... Someone's got a sense of humor....

We all know ASSendent is WAY better than B&W.... Just ask anyone who doesn't know....

That was WAY the slick!

I'll call Mike and ask him, he should not know.

nG

joetama
11-28-2006, 04:07 AM
That was WAY the slick!

I'll call Mike and ask him, he should not know.

nG

I was going to go with white, but wasn't sure if you would find it if I did.... ;)

creyc
11-28-2006, 04:19 AM
Ah cool, I ran 703's for a few months. Now looking for some 801D's because the 703s don't put out. heh

phyphoestilic
11-28-2006, 04:27 AM
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=YST-SW1500&cat=SPK

Thats what im using for my room. Got it brand new for $300 after shipping from an auction, it's a really good woofer :D

joetama
11-28-2006, 10:30 AM
Ah cool, I ran 703's for a few months. Now looking for some 801D's because the 703s don't put out. heh

Don't put out? What do you ever mean by that? What are you running electronics wise???

You got pictures of your setup?

IamDeMan
11-28-2006, 12:37 PM
4x 15" Fi Qs made with tweaks to improve IB performance then mount them in the attic using a manifold.


woot.

I am contamplating using 8 of them to replace the HEs I use in my HT right now.

creyc
12-03-2006, 07:23 AM
Current setup is Sony SS-M7 speakers (yes, I said sony) fed by an Ampzilla amplifier through a GAS Thoebe preamp. Source is an Arcam CD/DVD player.

I'm in a bit of a transitional period, things will undoubtedly change when the new B&W's arrive.

joetama
12-03-2006, 02:13 PM
A GAS Thoebe that works huh...

I really want to see pictures now!!!! Haha.... I've only seen a Thoebe once, and it was in pieces...