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View Full Version : Going Active...need raw driver suggestions.



adam71
11-11-2006, 12:51 PM
Just like the title says. I'm going active with my P9 combo and need some suggestions for raw drivers. I'm going to go with my PRS subs so that is already set. I was thinking 5.25" mids, 6.5" midbass. Not sure where anything is going yet since I haven't taken the door skins off of my Grand Prix yet. Not sure if door can handle midbass yet.

Midbass needs to be able to handle around 200 watts.

Anywho, any suggestions would be appreciated.

req
11-11-2006, 01:54 PM
hows it goin man.

first off, you need to let us know what your budget is. if you are looking at IB in the doors, and you want DEDICATED midbass, ie like 60hz to like 1khz, then look at the critical mass 8. www.criticalmassaudio.com the website *****, but go to the catalog you will find it listed as the LS82, but the model is actually called the MB82. its 8", got 2.5 mount depth, will play 50~1.5khz iirc and its 2 ohm. it will be what i put in my next car. but they are espensive. a pair will cost you like $600 lol.

so give us a price range and things maybe will work better :)

springy101
11-11-2006, 02:01 PM
you could probably save a lot of space by going with a good 2-3" dome midrange

rocky 59
11-11-2006, 02:01 PM
omg req i wub you


you could probably save a lot of space by going with a good 2-3" dome midrange

you know nushing of the actives so stfu :D

but i geuss i need to post something now that ive dumped just a lil bit.

look at pe.com for the dayton raw drivers cant go wrong for the price and i love love love the bass coming from my IB 7'' dayton ref's

adam71
11-11-2006, 02:12 PM
hows it goin man.

first off, you need to let us know what your budget is. if you are looking at IB in the doors, and you want DEDICATED midbass, ie like 60hz to like 1khz, then look at the critical mass 8. www.criticalmassaudio.com the website *****, but go to the catalog you will find it listed as the LS82, but the model is actually called the MB82. its 8", got 2.5 mount depth, will play 50~1.5khz iirc and its 2 ohm. it will be what i put in my next car. but they are espensive. a pair will cost you like $600 lol.

so give us a price range and things maybe will work better :)



Well, I wasn't looking to spend that much. However I will NOT comprimise quality over price. I personally can't see spending more than 300 for a pair of midbass and I can't see spending more than 200 for a pair of midrange. Same goes for tweeters. The P9 combo is a 4 way network so a dedicated MIDBASS is a must. If I think the door can handle the midbass then IB would be fine. My 97 Grand Am supported a 6.5" midbass with minimal vibrations. I could however hear noises on loud volume tracks. If I could get them in the kicks I will but 6.5,5.25 and a tweet is alot to put into a kick panel. I was thinking maybe qforms for the mid and tweet and the door for midbass.

What do you think?

ngsm13
11-11-2006, 03:50 PM
I'd recommend a 3-4.5" dome mid-range.

Midbass... I guess look at the 4ohm Extremii, if you want to stick in that size range.

Or you could look into Morel for the entire setup. Do you have amplification yet?

nG

adam71
11-11-2006, 04:16 PM
I'd recommend a 3-4.5" dome mid-range.

Midbass... I guess look at the 4ohm Extremii, if you want to stick in that size range.

Or you could look into Morel for the entire setup. Do you have amplification yet?

nG

Yes, I will be using all Premier PRS amps.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/product/details/0,,2076_310069937_34073,00.html

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/product/details/0,,2076_310069937_33782,00.html

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/product/details/0,,2076_310069937_36992,00.html


I have (2) 720s (2) 340s and (2) 320s. Not sure which configuration I will use these in yet if I even use all of them in this install. In the Grand Am which you can see in my gallery I used a 4ch 340 bridged on each sub. Now that I have 2 720s that may change.

James Bang
11-11-2006, 04:30 PM
tweeters? midrange? = horns?

if you can fit them, i think you should give them a try.

edit: also if you have the EQing capabilities, if not, nvm.

thadman
11-11-2006, 05:24 PM
LPG 26na + Peerless Exclusive 5.5 + Dayton RS225:D

Thats what id shoot for

leonsv
11-11-2006, 07:04 PM
i would try dayton reference 8" midbass

dayton rs25 mids

and lpg 25 nfa

all for under $300

squeak9798
11-11-2006, 08:30 PM
Not sure why you are wanting a 5.25" midrange.

3" - 4" cone midrange or 2" - 3" dome midrange will work great and save a ton of space.

http://www.elitecaraudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=136929 - Great midrange.

Usher and Dayton both have good dome mids aswell.

The Hybrid Audio Legita 3" cone midrange is supposed to sound pretty good aswell; http://www.hybrid-audio.com/product_line.asp?section=000100020002

Vifa, Aura, Dayton, Seas, Morel, etc all make some good cone midrange drivers aswell.


Midbass......so many to choose from. Dayton, Seas, Morel, Peerless, Vifa, Max Fidelity, etc

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/

Do some searching around on that site. The reviews section is great.

Elitecaraudio should have a lot of information aswell.

azbass
11-11-2006, 08:31 PM
dynaudio mw160

6spdcoupe
11-12-2006, 01:53 AM
dynaudio mw162

With a set of MD142s and MD102s? :D

Notwerk
11-12-2006, 02:04 AM
If you're a fan of the Dynaudio/Morel sound, look into Max Fidelity.

leonsv
11-12-2006, 05:23 PM
this site is a good source in deciding diy speakers. a lot of reviews

http://zaphaudio.com/

adam71
11-13-2006, 11:01 AM
Not sure why you are wanting a 5.25" midrange.

3" - 4" cone midrange or 2" - 3" dome midrange will work great and save a ton of space.

http://www.elitecaraudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=136929 - Great midrange.

Usher and Dayton both have good dome mids aswell.

The Hybrid Audio Legita 3" cone midrange is supposed to sound pretty good aswell; http://www.hybrid-audio.com/product_line.asp?section=000100020002

Vifa, Aura, Dayton, Seas, Morel, etc all make some good cone midrange drivers aswell.


Midbass......so many to choose from. Dayton, Seas, Morel, Peerless, Vifa, Max Fidelity, etc

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/

Do some searching around on that site. The reviews section is great.

Elitecaraudio should have a lot of information aswell.



I haven't made any decisions on which size mid to use yet. What I meant was I was leaning toward a 5.25 or 4" mid but still open to suggestion.

Also, what do those Legatia L3's go for??

3.5Max6spd
11-13-2006, 11:19 AM
The Usher was a wonderful midrange tonally. I still have my pair in the closet, if you wanna try them to experiment i'll let'm go cheap.

kublkmax
11-13-2006, 11:29 AM
With a set of MD142s and MD102s? :D

Boy!!! that sounds like what is in the wifes car. Where ever did I get something like that from?!!!! lol The Dyn set is the truth. You can run it active if you wish.

squeak9798
11-13-2006, 11:37 AM
Also, what do those Legatia L3's go for??

I'm wanting to say around $250 for the pair brand new.

adam71
11-13-2006, 12:08 PM
The Usher was a wonderful midrange tonally. I still have my pair in the closet, if you wanna try them to experiment i'll let'm go cheap.


How much big boy??;)

adam71
11-13-2006, 12:09 PM
I'm wanting to say around $250 for the pair brand new.


How could one go about purchasing a set of these.

3.5Max6spd
11-13-2006, 12:11 PM
How much big boy??;)

$75 shipped for the pair.

adam71
11-13-2006, 12:19 PM
$75 shipped for the pair.

You got PM.;)

6spdcoupe
11-13-2006, 12:21 PM
$75 shipped for the pair.

Great price for a Very nice set...

alphakenny1
11-13-2006, 01:26 PM
I'm wanting to say around $250 for the pair brand new.

thats msrp. i'm not quite exactly sure where to go to get those speakers but i'm sure you can get it for a bit less than that.

but also what are your goals as far as the frequency ranges you want to play from each speaker? dome midranges can't really be crossed over any lower than 500hz but the good thing about dome midranges is that it has great off axis response and does not need an enclosure. but if you want your midrange to be crossed at let's say 250hz, then domes are definately not the way to go.

My opinion, i want my midrange to extend as low and high as it can.

adam71
11-13-2006, 01:43 PM
thats msrp. i'm not quite exactly sure where to go to get those speakers but i'm sure you can get it for a bit less than that.

but also what are your goals as far as the frequency ranges you want to play from each speaker? dome midranges can't really be crossed over any lower than 500hz but the good thing about dome midranges is that it has great off axis response and does not need an enclosure. but if you want your midrange to be crossed at let's say 250hz, then domes are definately not the way to go.

My opinion, i want my midrange to extend as low and high as it can.

Well, its going to be a 4 way digital network via the P9 combo. This is where my knowledge tapers off a bit. So the crossover points are not an issue as the P9 is very flexible in that regard. Having no prior experience with raw drivers in a DIY active setup I have no clue as to what sounds best. Dome mid sounds great as far as flexibility of install but I have never heard a dome mid so I have no frame of reference there. Right now I have MTX Black Gold 4s 6.5s and tweets. I have NO complaints with the mids and midbass but I never really liked the tweet.

So I drew from your statement that in your opinion a mid should handle as much of the frequencies as possible?? Is this because most of music lies in the mid range or do you have another reason for this??

iceteebone
11-13-2006, 01:48 PM
Well, its going to be a 4 way digital network via the P9 combo. This is where my knowledge tapers off a bit. So the crossover points are not an issue as the P9 is very flixible in that regard. Having no prior experience with raw drivers in a DIY active setup I have no clue as to what sounds best. Dome mid sounds great as far as flexibility of install but I have never heard a dome mid so I have no frame of reference there. Right now I have MTX Black Gold 4s 6.5s and tweets. I have NO complaints with the mids and midbass but I never really liked the tweet.

So I drew from your statement that in your opinion a mid should handle as much of the frequencies as possible?? Is this because most of music lies in the mid range or do you have another reason for this??

your in grand rapids iirc? there is a store there that sells a lot of these diy drivers and i can't think of the name. maybe able to audition some of them :)

adam71
11-13-2006, 02:03 PM
your in grand rapids iirc? there is a store there that sells a lot of these diy drivers and i can't think of the name. maybe able to audition some of them :)

Name would be nice.;)

iceteebone
11-13-2006, 02:04 PM
Name would be nice.;)

the name meniscus comes to mind for some reason

iceteebone
11-13-2006, 02:06 PM
http://www.meniscusaudio.com/

wouldn't hurt to stop by and see if you can listen to any of the drivers.

adam71
11-13-2006, 02:09 PM
http://www.meniscusaudio.com/

wouldn't hurt to stop by and see if you can listen to any of the drivers.

Thanks, lots of nice brands.;)

iceteebone
11-13-2006, 02:11 PM
their prices seem competitive with all the other diy retailers

alphakenny1
11-13-2006, 04:20 PM
Well, its going to be a 4 way digital network via the P9 combo. This is where my knowledge tapers off a bit. So the crossover points are not an issue as the P9 is very flexible in that regard. Having no prior experience with raw drivers in a DIY active setup I have no clue as to what sounds best. Dome mid sounds great as far as flexibility of install but I have never heard a dome mid so I have no frame of reference there. Right now I have MTX Black Gold 4s 6.5s and tweets. I have NO complaints with the mids and midbass but I never really liked the tweet.

So I drew from your statement that in your opinion a mid should handle as much of the frequencies as possible?? Is this because most of music lies in the mid range or do you have another reason for this??

yes i want my midrange to have a wide frequency range due to a few reasons. a lot actually to do with reducing the path length difference (PLD). with a shortened PLD your staging and imaging will be much improved assuming that your midranges will be installed in kicks.

adam71
11-13-2006, 04:51 PM
yes i want my midrange to have a wide frequency range due to a few reasons. a lot actually to do with reducing the path length difference (PLD). with a shortened PLD your staging and imaging will be much improved assuming that your midranges will be installed in kicks.

Yes, I am definitely installing in kicks. I'm just up in the air on whether to use domes or cones. I guess a wide frquency response is what I should be focusing on instead of speaker type.

3.5Max6spd
11-13-2006, 05:26 PM
There are certainly no rules. The 4" cones I'm using now are playing 420hz 18db HP. I can play them 120hz 12db no problems. They simply sound better from an integration and imaging standpoint at that xover point , versus playing down to 200hz or so.

They are in the Kicks, with a 8" midbass driver 5" from them at the bottom corner of my door- which are LP ~ 250hz 18db. You'll find in many cases a good reason to underlap the 300-400hz area as its boosted by the car environment.

Also playing actively with a midbass, you'll soon find out that when you bandpass a driver....and it does not at least cover a range of 2- 2.5 octaves(you want to double the frequency at least twice from its high pass point)- it affects immensely the overall output of the driver.

So IMO if your midbass driver is on the same vacinity/plane your midrange will still sound like its coming from the kicks as the lower frqs become unlocalizable.
So instead of dwelling on 'pathlength differences' its certainly more important for me to use a driver based on its tonal characteristics. For example the DLS IR3 midrange has been in MANY SQ competition winning vehicles, regarless of its lower register issues. Scott Buwalda even did well with a door midbass, dome midrange in kicks, a-pillar tweets. Its all about integration.

adam71
11-13-2006, 05:51 PM
There are certainly no rules. The 4" cones I'm using now are playing 420hz 18db HP. I can play them 120hz 12db no problems. They simply sound better from an integration and imaging standpoint at that xover point , versus playing down to 200hz or so.

They are in the Kicks, with a 8" midbass driver 5" from them at the bottom corner of my door- which are LP ~ 250hz 18db. You'll find in many cases a good reason to underlap the 300-400hz area as its boosted by the car environment.

Also playing actively with a midbass, you'll soon find out that when you bandpass a driver....and it does not at least cover a range of 2- 2.5 octaves(you want to double the frequency at least twice from its high pass point)- it affects immensely the overall output of the driver.

So IMO if your midbass driver is on the same vacinity/plane your midrange will still sound like its coming from the kicks as the lower frqs become unlocalizable.
So instead of dwelling on 'pathlength differences' its certainly more important for me to use a driver based on its tonal characteristics. For example the DLS IR3 midrange has been in MANY SQ competition winning vehicles, regarless of its lower register issues. Scott Buwalda even did well with a door midbass, dome midrange in kicks, a-pillar tweets. Its all about integration.



Now I'm both enlightened and confused at the same time. I'm thinking I will try my 6.5s in the doors if my doors can handle it. Then putting my 4s and tweets in the kicks. If my doors cannot handle such a driver I will have to think of something else.

alphakenny1
11-13-2006, 05:55 PM
of course its all about integration but i was maybe suggesting a speaker that has a good wide range to give him flexibility for "integration" in his car. if you get a dome, you are pretty much limited to 500hz, maybe 400hz depending on speaker. with a cone like you said you can play down to 120 if you choose. but for your application 420 is what suits you best. flexbility is always nice.

adam71
11-13-2006, 06:03 PM
of course its all about integration but i was maybe suggesting a speaker that has a good wide range to give him flexibility for "integration" in his car. if you get a dome, you are pretty much limited to 500hz, maybe 400hz depending on speaker. with a cone like you said you can play down to 120 if you choose. but for your application 420 is what suits you best. flexbility is always nice.

I guess I have alot of pondering to do. I will first buy a newer and better set of tweets. I also will check the doors and see if they can handle 6.5s without too much fabrication. After I know if my doors can handle it I will then have a better idea where to go from there.

azbass
11-13-2006, 06:05 PM
With a set of MD142s and MD102s? :D

shhhh. thats for me....

squeak9798
11-13-2006, 06:47 PM
of course its all about integration but i was maybe suggesting a speaker that has a good wide range to give him flexibility for "integration" in his car. if you get a dome, you are pretty much limited to 500hz, maybe 400hz depending on speaker. with a cone like you said you can play down to 120 if you choose. but for your application 420 is what suits you best. flexbility is always nice.

That's not always the case.

People have had success using the DLS dome mid down to 315hz, for example.

squeak9798
11-13-2006, 06:50 PM
So instead of dwelling on 'pathlength differences' its certainly more important for me to use a driver based on its tonal characteristics. ......Scott Buwalda even did well with a door midbass, dome midrange in kicks, a-pillar tweets. Its all about integration.

Most of the people I'm aware of with great success using midbass in doors are time delaying the midbass to match the kickpanel mounted speakers. I believe Buwalda did this aswell.

3.5Max6spd
11-13-2006, 07:03 PM
Most of the people I'm aware of with great success using midbass in doors are time delaying the midbass to match the kickpanel mounted speakers. I believe Buwalda did this aswell.

compromises:D

He'll be alright with the P9. I certainly do not like t/a on my midbasses as it hinders a bit dynamics, so lately just i t/a every other driver and live with the end result. Its certainly there should i need to compete with the setup...but you know....there was a time when a system was about being FUN....hehe...

alphakenny1
11-13-2006, 07:04 PM
That's not always the case.

People have had success using the DLS dome mid down to 315hz, for example.

yea thats about the only dome i've heard of that has had success playing that low. and not too many others can as well. i think the atc dome can play that low :D.

squeak9798
11-13-2006, 07:09 PM
but you know....there was a time when a system was about being FUN....hehe...

I know.....I think about that quite often actually :(

Big Dee
11-13-2006, 07:33 PM
Keep us updated if you go with it.

I am planning on doing the same thing as you, midbass in doors and the rest in kicks, so I'm curious as to how yours will turn out.

I'm going with some cones because I want to cross them low, I only want low non directional notes coming from the doors because then I can get away with not aiming the mids in the doors, I'll just put them in the stock locations. I am also going to deaden the doors heavily, did you deaden your doors yet?

adam71
11-13-2006, 07:50 PM
Keep us updated if you go with it.

I am planning on doing the same thing as you, midbass in doors and the rest in kicks, so I'm curious as to how yours will turn out.

In my Grand Am (that past away over the summer) had 6.5s in the doors and 4s and tweets in the kicks. The result was decent but I know I can do better with an active system. The Grand Am was an active 2 way with a passive 3 way after the amps.


I am also going to deaden the doors heavily, did you deaden your doors yet?

No, I've only had the car a month and I was working 80+ per week. Now that I'm not working that many hours I can focus on the car a little.

No idea what I'm going to deaden them with either.

60ndown
11-13-2006, 08:10 PM
No idea what I'm going to deaden them with either.

second skin sludge, 20 min per door dead quiet.

adam71
11-13-2006, 08:18 PM
second skin sludge, 20 min per door dead quiet.

Link???

iceteebone
11-13-2006, 11:11 PM
www.secondskinaudio.com

iceteebone
11-13-2006, 11:12 PM
also i'd recomend using mat on the doors, and it is too cold to use sludge now anyways.

adam71
11-13-2006, 11:27 PM
www.secondskinaudio.com

Thanx.:cool:

Megalomaniac
11-26-2006, 11:59 PM
can anyone name more 3"- 4" midrange drivers, im lookin for a pair, to run around 75-85watts rms. Lookin to spend $100 give or take