PDA

View Full Version : 2V vs. 5V Head unit?



mutt_hollon
11-08-2006, 12:23 AM
For a SQL system. How much difference would a 5V head unit be compared to a 2V head unit if both are Pioneers? What differences would it actually make?

Looney_Tune
11-08-2006, 12:29 AM
preout voltage means absolutely nothing stupid boy!!! lol j/p asked the same type of question and got "flamed".

Suomi
11-08-2006, 12:31 AM
This thread is just a little bit down the page:
http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=192736

mutt_hollon
11-08-2006, 12:38 AM
sorry im at work and i cant really search now...i just check every 10 min for see if i get a reply.....sorry for not searching

ultimate157
11-08-2006, 11:58 AM
The higher the perout voltage, the less you have to turn up the gain on your amplifiers. I would prefer a preout of 5v or even 8v over 2v because I have to turn the gain on my amp past 3/4 gain just to get it to sound good (at a 4 ohm load).

And yes the gain is set properly. Checked with DMM and oscilloscope.

iceteebone
11-08-2006, 03:26 PM
::shakes head::


Previous Thread | Next Thread

neonrt
11-13-2006, 09:52 PM
i prefer a higher preout voltage, as it seems to sound better. i had a 1volt sony deck, set my gains right, and it sounded good. went to a 2.2v deck, same amp, speakers, and everything, heck even same brand hu, set my gains again, and i had louder, clearer bass. others i know say the same thing. not going against theory, but you know how theory, and real life dont quite jive. in theory its like ice t said, it should not effect sound at all, but in the real world, it does make a difference.

.::DuD3::.
11-14-2006, 03:46 PM
i prefer a higher preout voltage, as it seems to sound better. i had a 1volt sony deck, set my gains right, and it sounded good. went to a 2.2v deck, same amp, speakers, and everything, heck even same brand hu, set my gains again, and i had louder, clearer bass. others i know say the same thing. not going against theory, but you know how theory, and real life dont quite jive. in theory its like ice t said, it should not effect sound at all, but in the real world, it does make a difference.

you do know that gain doesn't effect how much power the amp produces right? :eyebrow:

heyman421
11-14-2006, 03:49 PM
Ya this was cleared up in an earlier thread.

SQ differences between decks are likely due to quality differences between the units, not pre-amplifier output voltage.

springy101
11-14-2006, 03:51 PM
you do know that gain doesn't effect how much power the amp produces right? :eyebrow:

wtf are you smoking?

mtdewelf
11-14-2006, 03:52 PM
:popcorn:

springy101
11-14-2006, 03:57 PM
lol

.::DuD3::.
11-14-2006, 03:59 PM
wtf are you smoking?


I think his question is "Does gain level cause the amplifier to work harder/harder on the amp/ etc"


No.

:p:, but i think i didn't word it the best way.

springy101
11-14-2006, 04:05 PM
but gain totally affects how much power an amp puts out, why do think it gets louder/softer when you change the gains? and no one has said anything about making an amp work harder.

squeak9798
11-15-2006, 08:20 PM
but in the real world, it does make a difference.

Completely incorrect.

But, since a higher preout voltage sounds better, I presume you have your volume maxed out every time you listen to your stereo.....because, you know, it would sound best then.

You compared completely different decks. Which means you were comparing much more than simply the preout voltage.

T3mpest
11-17-2006, 06:24 PM
Exactly, it's like any other type of electrical signal, just because it's rated at a certain amount doesn't mean it's putting it out all the time. IIRC it's logrithmic or something, so that for most of your volume knob your input voltage is minimal, only on the last few turns of the knob does it really scale up. (assuming you set your gains normally) So for normal volume listening, your probably not using more than the first couple volts anyway.

trunks9_us
11-18-2006, 12:16 AM
Exactly, it's like any other type of electrical signal, just because it's rated at a certain amount doesn't mean it's putting it out all the time. IIRC it's logrithmic or something, so that for most of your volume knob your input voltage is minimal, only on the last few turns of the knob does it really scale up. (assuming you set your gains normally) So for normal volume listening, your probably not using more than the first couple volts anyway.

you are correct!

here is a ex. It probably is 2 volt rms and 5 volt max. You have to remember even with headunits just because it says 5 volts or 8 volts it is not telling you where that unit is putting out that 5 volts. Just like when you listen to your amp. You may have a 9.0 that is fully capable of running 2200 watts rms, but where you listen to it it may only be putting out 1000. So does that mean that your 2200 watts is being wasted.....no not at all because its easier for that 9.0 to produce 1000 watts than it would be for a 6.0 to produce it. So everything is working more efficent and the power is clean and sounds good. Same idea wiht your headunit. If its capable of producing 2 volt rms and 5 volt peak it will perfrom better than a headunit that produces 2 volt peak and .5 volt rms.

BassAddictJ
11-18-2006, 10:59 PM
testicles

Prowler573
11-19-2006, 01:21 PM
you do know that gain doesn't effect how much power the amp produces right? :eyebrow:


wtf are you smoking?



but gain totally affects how much power an amp puts out, why do think it gets louder/softer when you change the gains? and no one has said anything about making an amp work harder.

springy??? wtf are you smoking? Gain settings have no effect on the power any given amp will produce. What is affected is at what volume setting the amp will create whatever power it is going to create. An amp designed to make X amount of unclipped wattage will make X amount of unclipped wattage regardless of the source's preamp output voltage. A higher preout voltage will simply allow that amp to create that X amount of unclipped wattage at a lower volume setting than would a source with a lower preout voltage. :fyi:

SilverSquared
11-19-2006, 01:30 PM
I've had an Eclipse 8v, Premier 6.5v, and Panasonic 5v. Eclipse and Panasonic rated theirs at nominal, and the Premier was Max. The Orion 250 HCCA I was using LOVED the Eclipse 8v signal. GOD it was clean. The Premier signal was CONSTANTLY causing my amp to clip. I had to run a crossover to 'normalize' the signal. The panasonic, so far, treats me the best. Its a strong signal, and very clear. Nothing compared to the Eclipse, but its **** good.

So, do look into making sure your voltage is constant and not just 'max'.

SilverSquared
11-19-2006, 01:32 PM
springy??? wtf are you smoking? Gain setting have no effect on the power any given amp will produce. What is affected is at what volume setting the amp will create whatever power it is going to create. An amp designed to make X amount of unclipped wattage will make X amount of unclipped wattage regardless of the source's preamp output voltage. A higher preout voltage will simply allow that amp to create that X amount of unclipped wattage at a lower volume setting than would a source with a lower preout voltage. :fyi:



This is why back in the OLD days, it used to be called....."INPUT GAIN CONTROL"

Now, if someone can remember the amps that had that written on them, they will post a pic of this amp to clarify things.

iceteebone
11-20-2006, 12:49 PM
and everybody wonders why i don't post outside of the lounge anymore :crap:

Prowler573
11-20-2006, 12:54 PM
This is why back in the OLD days, it used to be called....."INPUT GAIN CONTROL"

Now, if someone can remember the amps that had that written on them, they will post a pic of this amp to clarify things.
I cannot recall ever seeing one labeled as "input gain control" but I've seen many labeled as "input sensitivity adjustment," which is pretty much saying the same thing with different words. Well, no, that's not right ~ it is saying the same thing as we all (most of us, anyway) know because that potentiometer serves the same function on every amp no matter how it's specifically labeled...

.::DuD3::.
11-20-2006, 06:05 PM
wtf are you smoking?


springy??? wtf are you smoking? Gain settings have no effect on the power any given amp will produce. What is affected is at what volume setting the amp will create whatever power it is going to create. An amp designed to make X amount of unclipped wattage will make X amount of unclipped wattage regardless of the source's preamp output voltage. A higher preout voltage will simply allow that amp to create that X amount of unclipped wattage at a lower volume setting than would a source with a lower preout voltage. :fyi:

:p:

springy101
11-20-2006, 06:19 PM
springy??? wtf are you smoking? Gain settings have no effect on the power any given amp will produce. What is affected is at what volume setting the amp will create whatever power it is going to create. An amp designed to make X amount of unclipped wattage will make X amount of unclipped wattage regardless of the source's preamp output voltage. A higher preout voltage will simply allow that amp to create that X amount of unclipped wattage at a lower volume setting than would a source with a lower preout voltage. :fyi:

thats kind of what i was getting at, if the amp puts out 800w rms its not putting out 800w at all times, only if you set your gains to put out 800 watts at a certain volume. you could set the gain for it to put out 400 or 500 or any other amount of wattage. so then it does control how many watts the amp produces.

you do know that gain doesn't effect how much power the amp produces right? :eyebrow:
and if this is true then how can i hook up a 100w rms sub to a 1000w rms amp and not blow it? by setting the gain lower and only having it put out 100 watts at the volume where i set my gain.

.::DuD3::.
11-20-2006, 08:23 PM
:rolleyes:

neonrt
12-06-2006, 10:20 PM
Completely incorrect.

But, since a higher preout voltage sounds better, I presume you have your volume maxed out every time you listen to your stereo.....because, you know, it would sound best then.

You compared completely different decks. Which means you were comparing much more than simply the preout voltage.

not completly different. both sony, both the same amp 50x4, just an upgraded model with more features. same year hd's and all. volume maxed? that is funny.
anyways, i was just stateing my opinion, from my experiance. i have heard other same amp/brand stereos, that when upgraded to a higher preamp output, sounded much better. i dont set my gains by the dvm, i set them to what the amp says. if the hd puts out 1v, i set the amp to 1v, if the stereo says 2.2 i set it to 2.2, the way it used to be done. never blew a sub due to clipping, or amp for that matter. just my 2cents.

squeak9798
12-07-2006, 01:43 AM
not completly different. both sony, both the same amp 50x4, just an upgraded model with more features. same year hd's and all. volume maxed? that is funny.
anyways, i was just stateing my opinion, from my experiance. i have heard other same amp/brand stereos, that when upgraded to a higher preamp output, sounded much better. i dont set my gains by the dvm, i set them to what the amp says. if the hd puts out 1v, i set the amp to 1v, if the stereo says 2.2 i set it to 2.2, the way it used to be done. never blew a sub due to clipping, or amp for that matter. just my 2cents.

I'm not saying you didn't hear what you claim to have heard.

What I am saying, is that you are attempting to attribute it to a specific variable when you did absolutely nothing to isolate that variable.

Your comparisons are in absolutely no way valid to try to even begin to claim that the preout voltage was the reason for the differences you heard. In your own posts you have stated several obvious problems with the comparisons. So I'm not just "presuming".....I'm basing it off of the statements you have made.

Did you hear differences? I'm sure you did!

Was it due to the preout voltage? You can never state "yes" to this question from basing the answer on your past experiences. The preout voltage was one of tens of variables that changed. To attempt to finger it as the source, or even a contributing source, for the change in sound that you heard is impossible.


But to save you the trouble....there are no sonic differences between preout voltages.

supa_c
12-07-2006, 04:32 AM
What about...
Low impedance vs high impedance
Or balanced vs unbalanced, my personal favourite.
If preout voltage had nothing to do with then you wouldnt see all these top of the line h/u's kicking out 4V+

T3mpest
12-07-2006, 08:22 PM
I've had an Eclipse 8v, Premier 6.5v, and Panasonic 5v. Eclipse and Panasonic rated theirs at nominal, and the Premier was Max. The Orion 250 HCCA I was using LOVED the Eclipse 8v signal. GOD it was clean. The Premier signal was CONSTANTLY causing my amp to clip. I had to run a crossover to 'normalize' the signal. The panasonic, so far, treats me the best. Its a strong signal, and very clear. Nothing compared to the Eclipse, but its **** good.

So, do look into making sure your voltage is constant and not just 'max'.
you do know what nominal means right? IN NAME ONLY! Putting out a load nominally means it will put out a wide range of values depending on certain factors. A low preout signal won't cause your amp to clip. The amp's gain setting will allow you match it up the preout of your hu, if it clipped, it wasn't your hu's fault, user error is more like it. The mentality that bigger is better in this case has NO bearing. If your hu is at least putting out a big enough signal to be supported by your amp, your fine. With music hu's arent' putting out alot of voltage. Remember, for a pioneer to put out it's full voltage you need your volume all the way up, while playing a 1k test tone, any input smaller than that and you wont' see that much. Using musical content, your probably never seeing more than 2 volts out of it. It's not like an amps power rating, where it's what is physically being sent to the speakers. In this case, the signal is simply a catalyst for the amps, the size of the signal is meaningless for the most as long as you can pull full power from your amp with no noise, it's fine.

Basically if you switch out hu's to get a higher preout, your ONLY advantage is your ability to turn the gains down lower and get the same volume. This will improve your S/N ratio, but unless you were getting noise before, it doesn't matter. Most of the "it sounds better now" is just an increase in overall volume. If you don't reset your gains, your getting more sound/volume notch. However, simply turning up the gains on the lower voltage hu would have caused the same effect. People often confuse louder with sounding better, that's why level matching is more important. A lower gain setting isnt' always better, unless your inducing noise, or are clipping your signal by not compensating for it, it makes not difference.

PS. It's not like high end manufacturers EVER publish specs that make no actual difference, high end amps anyone?

mlstrass
12-09-2006, 11:53 AM
Here's my experience with different pre-out voltages.

Have an Excelon with 4.5v and was running a sealed Tempest that sounded very good and hit pretty hard.

Move the sub/amp into the GF's car with a 2v Pioneer HU. Reset the gains correctly with a DMM and the sub sounded like crap!!! Just hollow and empty with NO impact. Tried turning up the gain and no difference. Messed with the EQ settings for hours on end and it still sounded like crap. Gave up for a few weeks.

Then I decided to try the "forbidden" and used the loudness button on setting 2 and the sub came to life. Also made her coax's sound MUCH better. What exactly does the loudness button boost?

Any ideas on why her HU made the sub sound so bad/have such little output? The only real difference was the pre-out voltage...:banghead:

T3mpest
12-09-2006, 02:44 PM
Some HU's have built in processing. Perhaps your older hu had a built in bass boost, without even hitting a button? Again, a lower preout won't make a difference. Assumng you set your gains properly, the amp was still putting out it's RMS, it was just doing it with a lower input voltage. However, Xwatts=xwatts, regardless. Your DMM settings confirmed this. It doesn't matter what signal comes out of the hu, only what singal the amp is receiving, which in this case was still the same voltage as you had before. Loudness usually boosts the bass region and the top end, basically your tweets and sub's frequency range is boosted.

squeak9798
12-09-2006, 08:40 PM
.
The only real difference was the pre-out voltage...:banghead:

:confused:


Move the sub/amp into the GF's car

:idea:

That right there is a HUGE difference. You were comparing vehicle acoustics and setup differences; not preout voltage.

Not to mention....again, you compared completely different headunits. You compared MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more than simply the preout voltages of the headunits. Different headunits, different features/settings/etc. You were not even anywhere close to comparing the preout voltages.


Also; With just about every Pioneer headunit I've used....for whatever reason they have always sounded better with the loudness engaged. Otherwise they have always sounded exactly how you described; hollow and lifeless.

supa_c
12-09-2006, 08:43 PM
I have loudness on, it does make a difference.

b0mbrman
12-10-2006, 04:01 AM
Ya this was cleared up in an earlier thread.

SQ differences between decks are likely due to quality differences between the units, not pre-amplifier output voltage.

Define quality

luvinthebass
12-10-2006, 05:39 AM
loudness on my pioneer makes a huge difference, highs are more sharper and bass is more deep and dominant