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thermal
10-10-2006, 10:56 AM
Hey All:

I'm looking for a high end head unit for a sq setup.
I only need it for CD's.
I'm new to car audio and have been told the Alpine DVA-9861 is a good choice.
Someone also told me that I should get the Rockford Fosgate 3sixty.2 to go with it.
Does this Alpine unit need a processor?
Any other head units you like better?

I won't be doing any tuning myself, so after the install the head unit only needs basic controls.

Thanks!

skadude016
10-10-2006, 11:07 AM
Kenwood x990?

ramos
10-10-2006, 11:11 AM
If you go the alpine route , why not go with the alpine proc ? :)

alphakenny1
10-10-2006, 11:14 AM
definately add on the h701 if you plan on going with the 9861. but i dunno if it'll be worth it since you won't be really using it. to choose your hu better, it'd be nice to know what is your planned setup.

thermal
10-10-2006, 11:22 AM
definately add on the h701 if you plan on going with the 9861. but i dunno if it'll be worth it since you won't be really using it. to choose your hu better, it'd be nice to know what is your planned setup.

Just 6 1/2" 2-way components in the front doors and a sub or 2 in the trunk. I have not picked any components yet.

Thanks.

Ryan from Ohio
10-10-2006, 05:40 PM
Im in the same boat as you.

Ive been looking into the McIntosh 406, Denon Z1, Alpine 7990, Clarion DRZ 9255, Nak CD700 and the RF Denon.

All of which are hard to get, except Nakamichi.

Hintzyboy
10-10-2006, 05:55 PM
Budget?

thermal
10-10-2006, 06:23 PM
Budget?

for hu and processor........$1000

Hintzyboy
10-10-2006, 11:07 PM
Pioneer Premier DEX-P9 and DEQ-P9

You should be able to find the pair on Ebay in your budget

Megalomaniac
10-10-2006, 11:21 PM
Pioneer Premier DEX-P9 and DEQ-P9

You should be able to find the pair on Ebay in your budget

he doesnt know how to equilize...fyi

Hintzyboy
10-11-2006, 12:30 AM
So he can do some research, play with the settings and learn a little. Ignorance is quickly taken care of if you have a little initiative.

Hintzyboy
10-11-2006, 12:31 AM
And if he has someone install it who does know what they're doing, he'll be fine.

thermal
10-11-2006, 09:03 AM
Pioneer Premier DEX-P9 and DEQ-P9

You should be able to find the pair on Ebay in your budget

Why do you suggest this over the Alpine?
Thanks for your input!

Hintzyboy
10-11-2006, 12:07 PM
I can't say that I'd definitely take one over the other. I don't have any experience with Alpine units (yet, I'm waiting to install one right now), but I've owned a couple Pioneers and have loved them. Very nice units and very dependable. The one I have now is about 3 or 4 years old and still woks like the day I bought it. I've known people who've had Pioneer units for 10 years that still work great.

The DEX-P9 unit is made specifically for competition level sq setups, whereas the Alpine uit, although it probably has very good sq, is not made with the same intentions as the pioneer. Alpine's ultimate sq unit is a $2400 HU from their F#1 Status line. I think that the Pioneer would give you more sq for your cash.

Product Pages
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/product/details/0,,2076_310069882_34724,00.html
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/product/details/0,,2076_310069882_35384,00.html

gl0ck
10-11-2006, 12:11 PM
p9 is pretty ****.

bri487
10-11-2006, 12:12 PM
for hu and processor........$1000

i would definitly get the zapco dsp for processing, i have it built into my amps, it is awesome, sound downright wicked. as far as head units go, ehh, too many to choose from. zapco has one coming out god only knows when, supposed to blow away the market SQ wise.

alphakenny1
10-11-2006, 12:24 PM
since you would only be using this as a 2 way front stage setup, i wouldn't get either any of the stuff suggest on here. are you running passive? if so, its basially useless getting a rockford 3sixty.2, p9,h701 or zapco dsp. if going active and if you plan on ugrading down the road to let's say a 3 way front stage, then maybe the options on here might fit the bill.

thermal
10-11-2006, 01:37 PM
since you would only be using this as a 2 way front stage setup, i wouldn't get either any of the stuff suggest on here. are you running passive? if so, its basially useless getting a rockford 3sixty.2, p9,h701 or zapco dsp. if going active and if you plan on ugrading down the road to let's say a 3 way front stage, then maybe the options on here might fit the bill.

I don't have a clue what you just said.

Could you explain more in detail or point me to where I can read about your comments? I've got a great installer who can do a competition sq setup but I want to pick out the components.

After my installer tunes the system, I don't think I will do any adjusting myself except for the volume control.

Thanks so much for your input!

alphakenny1
10-11-2006, 01:55 PM
click on my active thread in my sig to know the differences between active and passive crossovers.

alphakenny1
10-11-2006, 02:06 PM
oh just looking at your other thread about speakers, looks like you going are going passive. i would just get an hu that has the features that you want such as ipod. also t/a and a eq would be nice. maybe something in the lines of eclipse 8xxx series or alpine 9813,9815,9833,9835,9853, or 9855.

thermal
10-11-2006, 02:31 PM
oh just looking at your other thread about speakers, looks like you going are going passive. i would just get an hu that has the features that you want such as ipod. also t/a and a eq would be nice. maybe something in the lines of eclipse 8xxx series or alpine 9813,9815,9833,9835,9853, or 9855.

I will go over your comments with my installer, but won't he need a processor to set the sound stage?

Only thing I need a HU for is CD's and FM and HD FM.

alphakenny1
10-11-2006, 02:44 PM
there are a number of other factors to consider. will you biamp your components or just run off a two channel amp? where is he going to be installing the tweeters? your installer probably won't do too much of the tuning besides the eq and possibly t/a and maybe a lil crossover selection for the highpass of the components and lowpass for the sub.

in all honesty, if you don't plan on upgrading down the road, i think an eclipse 8xxx series hu will be sufficient or even the alpines as i mentioned earlier or even the pioneer 880prs.

but if you got the dough, what i would do is buy a dead head hu such as a mcintosh mx406, rockford 8250, nakamichi mbx and buy the rockford 3sixty.2. but as i said, i dunno if you'll be using it to its potential. but up to you.

thermal
10-11-2006, 02:55 PM
there are a number of other factors to consider. will you biamp your components or just run off a two channel amp? where is he going to be installing the tweeters? your installer probably won't do too much of the tuning besides the eq and possibly t/a and maybe a lil crossover selection for the highpass of the components and lowpass for the sub.

in all honesty, if you don't plan on upgrading down the road, i think an eclipse 8xxx series hu will be sufficient or even the alpines as i mentioned earlier or even the pioneer 880prs.

but if you got the dough, what i would do is buy a dead head hu such as a mcintosh mx406, rockford 8250, nakamichi mbx and buy the rockford 3sixty.2. but as i said, i dunno if you'll be using it to its potential. but up to you.

Wow! I had no clue that all this stuff was going on in car audio!!

I 've picked out the speakers though........

Rainbow CS 265 Profi Phase Plug 6 1/2" in the front doors
Boston SPG-555 sub (1) in the trunk

I will research the HU's you mentioned.
Thanks!

6spdcoupe
10-11-2006, 04:01 PM
he doesnt know how to equilize...fyi


And JoO dunno how to spell :fyi:

:p:

Pr0d1gy
10-11-2006, 04:06 PM
If you're just going with a set of comps + subs (i.e. a 3 way setup), just get the Pioneer DEH880PRS head unit. It has a 3 way active crossover network & time alignment built in. It is only around $300 and has great sound quality for the money. Plus, it is a great way to get your feet wet with tuning...just learn about the crossovers before you turn the system up.

Or you could be like me & drop a grand on an Alpine IVA-d900 and H700/H701 combo. Optical out to the H70- processor is a definite winner.

thermal
10-11-2006, 04:17 PM
If you're just going with a set of comps + subs (i.e. a 3 way setup), just get the Pioneer DEH880PRS head unit. It has a 3 way active crossover network & time alignment built in. It is only around $300 and has great sound quality for the money. Plus, it is a great way to get your feet wet with tuning...just learn about the crossovers before you turn the system up.

Or you could be like me & drop a grand on an Alpine IVA-d900 and H700/H701 combo. Optical out to the H70- processor is a definite winner.

Is that a big plus having the HU send out digital to the processor? Does the processor also send out digital to the amps?

Pr0d1gy
10-11-2006, 04:23 PM
Is that a big plus having the HU send out digital to the processor? Does the processor also send out digital to the amps?

The reason it is a big deal is because the head unit's digital to analog processor usually isn't that great (there are exceptions). The sound processors have great DtoA converters that will take the signal & keep it crystal clear, as it was when it was digital. The signal going to the amps, then speakers, must be analog...thus the converter is essential for sound quality.

thermal
10-11-2006, 04:53 PM
The reason it is a big deal is because the head unit's digital to analog processor usually isn't that great (there are exceptions). The sound processors have great DtoA converters that will take the signal & keep it crystal clear, as it was when it was digital. The signal going to the amps, then speakers, must be analog...thus the converter is essential for sound quality.

I checked the Alpine DVA-9861 and it has digital out to the processor. Do you have any experience with this unit?

thermal
10-12-2006, 09:54 AM
Both of these setups cost around $800

Clarion DRZ-9255

Alpine DVA-9861 w/ Alpine PXA-H701 or Rockford Fosgate 3.sixty.2

Which setup will yield the best sound quality?

The Alpine DVA-9861 was released in April 2006 so I guess not many have experience with it, and also the 3.sixty.2 is new.

The Clairon does not have HD radio, but I could skip that if the sq is that much better.

The Clairon has dual 24 bit/96 kHz DAC Burr-Brown
The Alpine has dual 24-bit/44.1 (if I'm reading the specs right?)

But does the DAC's on the Apine even matter if the digital outputs are used to connect to the processor.

I should stop now case I have no idea what I'm taking about.

Just looking for the best sq HU/Processor setup under $1000.

thermal
10-12-2006, 03:36 PM
I guess I decided on the Clairon DRZ-9255.
I looked at the NAK CD-700II but it's $500 more.
I was told the Clairon is better sq than the Alpine DVA-9861.

No HD Radio on the Clairon.............oh well.

Eugenics
10-12-2006, 03:38 PM
i would start with the 880prs to make sure you really want to go this route. not to mention you're not going to have an appreciation for these things for a while so any extra money spent will probably be waisted. baby steps.

alphakenny1
10-12-2006, 04:08 PM
9861/h701 will absolutely destroy the drz9255 if tuned correctly. the drz has very limited tuning capabilities compared to the 9861/h701 combo. any difference in "sq" can easily be made up via tuning. the 9861 has other options as well as direct ipod connection (no need for adapter) and is HD ready. lemme made a quick comparison:

xover features:

h701 - it goes up to 1/12 oct steps and each sets of inputs can be bandpassed. goes up to 30db/oct.
drz - 1/3 oct steps and only up to 18db/oct.

eq features:

h701 - 31 band graphic eq per input except for sub which has a 10 band graphic eq.
drz - 5 band peq.

thermal
10-12-2006, 04:13 PM
i would start with the 880prs to make sure you really want to go this route. not to mention you're not going to have an appreciation for these things for a while so any extra money spent will probably be waisted. baby steps.

Why do you recommend this over the Clarion?
Thanks.

6spdcoupe
10-12-2006, 11:01 PM
Why do you recommend this over the Clarion?
Thanks.

My guess would be because it is your first setup, your running passive,its a brand new unit. It will give you plenty of control and a feel for how you like your setup, but without breaking the bank-being that its about a third of the Clarion price wise.

ravendarat
10-12-2006, 11:08 PM
Not trying to bring up the MP3 fight again, but if someone is truly looking at a SQ set up than being able to have an IPOD hooked up to the system should not be a concern what so ever.

MDXBLUE
10-12-2006, 11:25 PM
9861/h701 will absolutely destroy the drz9255 if tuned correctly. the drz has very limited tuning capabilities compared to the 9861/h701 combo. any difference in "sq" can easily be made up via tuning. the 9861 has other options as well as direct ipod connection (no need for adapter) and is HD ready. lemme made a quick comparison:

xover features:

h701 - it goes up to 1/12 oct steps and each sets of inputs can be bandpassed. goes up to 30db/oct.
drz - 1/3 oct steps and only up to 18db/oct.

eq features:

h701 - 31 band graphic eq per input except for sub which has a 10 band graphic eq.
drz - 5 band peq.

This will be the answer I am looking for in my post If you are speaking from experiences. Are you?

alphakenny1
10-13-2006, 01:10 AM
never used the clarion drz9255 and but with the right tuning any "sq" differences between the two head units can easily be made up with tuning. I don't put huge emphasis on sq of hu's. i try to focus more on the things that matter such as speaker placement, level matching, and tuning. those 3 will far outweigh sq differences between hu's IMO.

Eugenics
10-13-2006, 01:29 AM
My guess would be because it is your first setup, your running passive,its a brand new unit. It will give you plenty of control and a feel for how you like your setup, but without breaking the bank-being that its about a third of the Clarion price wise.

hit it right on the head. As well it would really benefit you to start off with a lower headunit because you'll learn the fundimentals. As well you'll learn how to really get the sound you want starting with basic equipment. And you'll know what that sound is. Start with mid range everything, then observe it for a while, find what you think is the weak link, upgrade or swap, fix it, whatever. That way you get to know the equipment, and how things really work together. And spend most your time in install, mounting things differently, etc. etc.

MDXBLUE
10-13-2006, 02:52 AM
never used the clarion drz9255 and but with the right tuning any "sq" differences between the two head units can easily be made up with tuning. I don't put huge emphasis on sq of hu's. i try to focus more on the things that matter such as speaker placement, level matching, and tuning. those 3 will far outweigh sq differences between hu's IMO.

Thanks. Sound like Alpine is the way to go as I am stuck with stock speaker location in my MDX.

Can you use the graphic eq and paramatrix eq at the same time? Do you have to install the H701 close to the HU? Or is it as long as the Ai-net cable and optic cable allowed without distortion heard.

alphakenny1
10-13-2006, 03:11 AM
no you can't use the parametric and graphic at the same time. but w/ 31 bands on the graphic, thats should be plenty.

but i do however agree with eugenics and 6spd. sounds like its your first setup and maybe you can an HU such as the eclipse 8053, 880prs, alpine 9835, etc.. so you can learn the basics of tuning without spending tons of money. but its really up to you.

MDXBLUE
10-13-2006, 03:29 AM
I think I kind of highjack this thread and I apologize to the original poster.

Actually, I am pretty proficient with tuning as the audio basic is similar to home audio. This setup would be my second.

I have a freq sweep cd and a radio shack db meter for setting the eq. Is that how you do it? As far as sub, I use WinISD to design the box.

Can you please help me with the H701 questions? Can it be installed in the trunk? I am not sure how long is the Ai-net cable. Toslink cable is available in various length so that would be a problem.

I will also look at the Pioneer to see if it has all i need for tuning, as you all suggested tuning is more important than deck sq in car environment.

alphakenny1
10-13-2006, 03:44 AM
yes my h701 is installed in the trunk. ai-net cable is definately long enough but of course if running the h701 i suggest using optical.

thermal
10-13-2006, 10:16 AM
My guess would be because it is your first setup, your running passive,its a brand new unit. It will give you plenty of control and a feel for how you like your setup, but without breaking the bank-being that its about a third of the Clarion price wise.

I spoke with my installer and he will be doing an active install.

This will be a system that I will stick with for awhile, and I would like the best Head Unit / processor within my budget $1000.

The installer will be doing all the tuning........just volume control for me.

Thanks for your input!

thermal
10-13-2006, 10:22 AM
never used the clarion drz9255 and but with the right tuning any "sq" differences between the two head units can easily be made up with tuning. I don't put huge emphasis on sq of hu's. i try to focus more on the things that matter such as speaker placement, level matching, and tuning. those 3 will far outweigh sq differences between hu's IMO.

Have you read the specs on the Clairon?

It has dual burr brown dac at 96 sampling rate
Alpine has dual dac but I think at 41 rate

Please correct me if I'm wrong......

So no matter how much tuning you do.............the 1st source...the CD player......has to play an important part...........how can the Apine be tuned to sound better than the Clarion if the Clarion has better CD specs to start with.

blue
10-13-2006, 10:42 AM
9861/h701 will absolutely destroy the drz9255 if tuned correctly. the drz has very limited tuning capabilities compared to the 9861/h701 combo. any difference in "sq" can easily be made up via tuning. the 9861 has other options as well as direct ipod connection (no need for adapter) and is HD ready. lemme made a quick comparison:

xover features:

h701 - it goes up to 1/12 oct steps and each sets of inputs can be bandpassed. goes up to 30db/oct.
drz - 1/3 oct steps and only up to 18db/oct.

eq features:

h701 - 31 band graphic eq per input except for sub which has a 10 band graphic eq.
drz - 5 band peq.

True , the Alpine has MUCH , MUCH more flexibility in the way of set-up , but NOTHING overcomes the difference Dual Burr Brown Dacs make in a piece. Using lots of EQ to try and overcome the rather dry sound of the Alpine DACs is like placing a band-aid over a sucking chest wound.
I've played with both set-ups you mentioned , and while Alpine is nice , the DRZ simply sounds like music .... Natural.
There is a LOT wrong with the " Processing can overcome EVERY issue " way of thinking today. Start out right , and you won't need processing to " fix " things ....
JMO

blue
10-13-2006, 10:46 AM
With all due respect Alphakenny1 .... Your first sentence in post #37 says it all .... You're speaking about a product in which you have NO experience with firsthand when you talk about the DRZ ..... I've owned both , and know first hand the differences ..... Regardless , as long as YOU are satisfied with your set-up , that's all that really matters ....

alphakenny1
10-13-2006, 11:13 AM
blue, i do respect your opinion and i know your love for the drz :) but i've heard it all. i sat in a car with a mcintosh mx406 before and after it was tuned for a good hour. it was tuned via 2 behringer processors. night and day difference. the stage was deeper and higher and imaging was much better. tonality it was a bit more clear and detailed. not a huge difference in tonality but everything with respects to the stage and imaging made a huge difference. something the mcintosh mx406 cannot do by itself. i will take flexbility in tuning capabilities before any SQ differences between HUs.

Hintzyboy
10-13-2006, 11:27 AM
Like I said, go with the DEX-P9 and DEQ-P9 combo. The HU has dual 24-bit Burr Brown DACs with up to a 96kHz sampling frequency and has optical outs for the processor (DEQ). This method will give you the advantages of both the Clarion and the alpine options. PM me your email and I'll send you the manuals if you want to look over them.

Eugenics
10-13-2006, 12:26 PM
Have you read the specs on the Clairon?

It has dual burr brown dac at 96 sampling rate
Alpine has dual dac but I think at 41 rate

Please correct me if I'm wrong......

So no matter how much tuning you do.............the 1st source...the CD player......has to play an important part...........how can the Apine be tuned to sound better than the Clarion if the Clarion has better CD specs to start with.

if you fall into the numbers game you are a fool. the 7998 has proved that many times.


True , the Alpine has MUCH , MUCH more flexibility in the way of set-up , but NOTHING overcomes the difference Dual Burr Brown Dacs make in a piece. Using lots of EQ to try and overcome the rather dry sound of the Alpine DACs is like placing a band-aid over a sucking chest wound.
I've played with both set-ups you mentioned , and while Alpine is nice , the DRZ simply sounds like music .... Natural.
There is a LOT wrong with the " Processing can overcome EVERY issue " way of thinking today. Start out right , and you won't need processing to " fix " things ....
JMO

you're such a moron its not even funny. the minute someone says something that contradicts the product you have a boner for you go **** ape. thats why you drive a p.o.s. viper, to compensate for something you obviously lack.

p.s. your wife still has downs.


With all due respect Alphakenny1 .... Your first sentence in post #37 says it all .... You're speaking about a product in which you have NO experience with firsthand when you talk about the DRZ ..... I've owned both , and know first hand the differences ..... Regardless , as long as YOU are satisfied with your set-up , that's all that really matters ....

blah blah blah


blue, i do respect your opinion and i know your love for the drz :) but i've heard it all. i sat in a car with a mcintosh mx406 before and after it was tuned for a good hour. it was tuned via 2 behringer processors. night and day difference. the stage was deeper and higher and imaging was much better. tonality it was a bit more clear and detailed. not a huge difference in tonality but everything with respects to the stage and imaging made a huge difference. something the mcintosh mx406 cannot do by itself. i will take flexbility in tuning capabilities before any SQ differences between HUs.

blue has owned 4 'high end' audio shops that have all failed, therefore he knows everything!

before you buy into any of the b.s. he spits, read:


http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156436

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158012
(hebrew ham. proves him to be a douchefuc and he has nothing to say, just ignores the posts)

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178941
(goes on to say anyone who likes eclipse knows nothing about music or how it should sound... and that he's never been flamed LAWL)

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156436
(even worse)

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156802

(and again)

thermal
10-13-2006, 01:32 PM
Thanks for your input Eugenics............but you never really helped in our discussion about your Head/processor preference.

Keep in mind my budget............$1000, for an active setup with a great installer.

I don't have any way to listen to the units so specs is a good way for me to start..........not that I know what they mean anyways..........lol

Eugenics
10-13-2006, 02:02 PM
if it were me, i would go with the alpine combo. a 7998 and the h701 combo. pxa and rux iirc. but my next setup personally will probably be a 960 premier, or whatever the model number is.

explorer2
10-13-2006, 04:23 PM
I'd go with the p9 combo, it will do everything you need it to and leaves plenty of room for future expansion and upgrades, and if you ever do decide to get rid of it the resale will be good.

Hintzyboy
10-13-2006, 04:37 PM
P9 FTW :woot:

blue
10-13-2006, 05:57 PM
if you fall into the numbers game you are a fool. the 7998 has proved that many times.



you're such a moron its not even funny. the minute someone says something that contradicts the product you have a boner for you go **** ape. thats why you drive a p.o.s. viper, to compensate for something you obviously lack.

p.s. your wife still has downs.



blah blah blah



blue has owned 4 'high end' audio shops that have all failed, therefore he knows everything!

before you buy into any of the b.s. he spits, read:


http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156436

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158012
(hebrew ham. proves him to be a douchefuc and he has nothing to say, just ignores the posts)

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178941
(goes on to say anyone who likes eclipse knows nothing about music or how it should sound... and that he's never been flamed LAWL)

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156436
(even worse)

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156802

(and again)

You again ? I had hope you had passed away already :D I'm doing WAAAAY to well to be worried about anything you say , and my references stand on their own. Thanks for once again proving your tasteless and immature character.
Cheers Bro !

blue
10-13-2006, 05:59 PM
if you fall into the numbers game you are a fool. the 7998 has proved that many times.



you're such a moron its not even funny. the minute someone says something that contradicts the product you have a boner for you go **** ape. thats why you drive a p.o.s. viper, to compensate for something you obviously lack.

p.s. your wife still has downs.



blah blah blah



blue has owned 4 'high end' audio shops that have all failed, therefore he knows everything!

before you buy into any of the b.s. he spits, read:


http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156436

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158012
(hebrew ham. proves him to be a douchefuc and he has nothing to say, just ignores the posts)

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178941
(goes on to say anyone who likes eclipse knows nothing about music or how it should sound... and that he's never been flamed LAWL)

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156436
(even worse)

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156802

(and again)

Also , NONE of my shops have ever failed in any way , but to this day continue to be VERY , VERY successful , thank you ...:greedy:

blue
10-13-2006, 06:01 PM
blue, i do respect your opinion and i know your love for the drz :) but i've heard it all. i sat in a car with a mcintosh mx406 before and after it was tuned for a good hour. it was tuned via 2 behringer processors. night and day difference. the stage was deeper and higher and imaging was much better. tonality it was a bit more clear and detailed. not a huge difference in tonality but everything with respects to the stage and imaging made a huge difference. something the mcintosh mx406 cannot do by itself. i will take flexbility in tuning capabilities before any SQ differences between HUs.

Likewise Alphakenny1 , with all sincere respect , the McIntosh MX-406 is LIGHT YEARS behind the DRZ in literally EVERY way imaginable.

squeak9798
10-13-2006, 07:52 PM
Have you read the specs on the Clairon?

It has dual burr brown dac at 96 sampling rate
Alpine has dual dac but I think at 41 rate

Please correct me if I'm wrong......

So no matter how much tuning you do.............the 1st source...the CD player......has to play an important part...........how can the Apine be tuned to sound better than the Clarion if the Clarion has better CD specs to start with.

And do you really think you can draw any logical conclusions from that single specification?

There is far more to ADC/DAC conversion than the sampling rate.

And even then, how much of an audible difference will it really cause?

alphakenny1
10-13-2006, 08:00 PM
Likewise Alphakenny1 , with all sincere respect , the McIntosh MX-406 is LIGHT YEARS behind the DRZ in literally EVERY way imaginable.

maybe but honestly as you know the automobile isn't the perfect location for speakers. there are so many variables to worsen the sound. to help make up for that you NEED processing. there's no way around it. if you think "if it should be done do it right." then obviously you are a home audio hobbyist rather than a car audio hobbyist because no car is the same is perfect. you must have mad skills to have equal PLD in your car. geometries of a car can effect sound in a significant way. can dual burr brown dac's make up for this? my guess is no. the drz xover features are very limited compared to compared to the h701. IIRC you were running passives, maybe the xover functions don't apply to you but to the people who run active, it does make a huge difference. it's all about flexbility and the drz alone cannot provide that especially with a 4 way active setup.

squeak9798
10-13-2006, 08:03 PM
True , the Alpine has MUCH , MUCH more flexibility in the way of set-up , but NOTHING overcomes the difference Dual Burr Brown Dacs make in a piece.

:laugh:


Using lots of EQ to try and overcome the rather dry sound of the Alpine DACs is like placing a band-aid over a sucking chest wound.

Yeah.

Such a shame some of the best sounding cars in the world have used the H701.

What an improvement they'd see if they switched to the Clarion!



Pick whatever fits your budget, needs and tastes. But don't base your decision off of the sampling rate alone, or Blue's delusional-based opinion (sorry, but I personally put little value on most anything subjective that he states as he as a very slanted viewpoint which causes most of what he states to be inaccurate and/or completely biased-based...typical "elitist audiophile").

Hintzyboy
10-13-2006, 08:07 PM
How many times must I say this? Instead of arguing over the clarion/alpine setups, get the Premier P9 combo and gain the advantages of both. It's a win-win.

P9P9P9P9P9P9P9P9P9P9P9P9P9P9

squeak9798
10-13-2006, 08:13 PM
How many times must I say this? Instead of arguing over the clarion/alpine setups, get the Premier P9 combo and gain the advantages of both. It's a win-win.

P9P9P9P9P9P9P9P9P9P9P9P9P9P9

The P9 and H701 are on pretty level playing fields......

alphakenny1
10-13-2006, 09:27 PM
Likewise Alphakenny1 , with all sincere respect , the McIntosh MX-406 is LIGHT YEARS behind the DRZ in literally EVERY way imaginable.

oh, also you totally missed my point. even with an "SQ HU" such as the mcintosh mx406, it cannot make up the deficiences of how the car affects sound. i mentioned that a thousand times already but just wanted to say that you missed my point completely. i wasn't even comparing the drz to the mcintosh.

blue
10-13-2006, 09:56 PM
oh, also you totally missed my point. even with an "SQ HU" such as the mcintosh mx406, it cannot make up the deficiences of how the car affects sound. i mentioned that a thousand times already but just wanted to say that you missed my point completely. i wasn't even comparing the drz to the mcintosh.

Oh , sorry man .... Without acception , every customer or friend I have personally seen go from one of the " other " high-end HU offerings to the DRZ , has noticed a very significant improvement in SQ .... MANY will argue against this , but people know what they hear.
I'll boil my own personal opinion down : The ONE thing I find the DRZ to do better than ANYTHING else , is just sound like music. It sounds considerably more natural than the rest to me ....
Many times in a car's hostile environment , those differences can't very well be discenrable , but with the EXACT right set-up , the difference to me is NOT subtle.
Best thing is : We all can have our own opinions , and ONLY have to satisfy ourselves in the end ... ( or in MY case myself and my customers ) :D

blue
10-13-2006, 10:00 PM
As far as the P-9 ..... I owned it , and found it to have AWESOME flexibility and features , but it ALWAYS sounded somewhat thin and un-musical. After switching out numerous speakers , amp , ect .... I finally realized that was just how the P-9 sounded. TONS of resolution , but it just didn't convey the music. There are actually several Professional reviews that claimed they heard the same exact trait for what it's worth ....

alphakenny1
10-13-2006, 10:13 PM
yes in the end, as long as we are happy with our equipment then it doesn't matter. but there aren't too many people here who have the "exact" setup. thats a very idealistic point of view. you have to be like an iasca champ to have that "exact" setup, but this is ca.com and there aren't many iasca competitors active in this forum. what if someone wants a simple setup such as mids in doors (a location that is definately not ideal for staging and imaging) and tweeters in sails because he doesn't want to make time to make kicks to decrease the PLD? will the drz overcome the staging issues that car has because the drz has dual burr brown dacs and makeup for the PLD? i highly doubt it and again you won't find too many systems (including mine) that is "exact." to me there are 3 parts of an sq system: staging, imaging and tonality. your argument of "dual burr brown dacs" only covers one part, tonality. doesn't even touch the other 2.

just next time someone asks for advice about an sq hu, think of their setup, not yours ;).

Eugenics
10-13-2006, 10:59 PM
haha yeah okay, you obviously dont want to acknowledge any of those threads. and if they do so good then why do you go through so many? why do you still drive those old cars? i'd think you'd step up to something quite a bit nicer... instead you come to a website and pick fights. must not be that busy with your failures.... no, im not talking about your children. or wife with downs syndrom.

Hintzyboy
10-13-2006, 11:24 PM
The P9 and H701 are on pretty level playing fields......

True, the processors are pretty equal, but the P9 headunit is better than the alpine HU that this guy was looking at. And I've only ever found the combo for sale within his budget. Purchasing the HU and DSP separately (ergo going with the H701) would be outside his range if he wanted the better HU.

that's just my .02

Hintzyboy
10-13-2006, 11:25 PM
As far as the P-9 ..... I owned it , and found it to have AWESOME flexibility and features , but it ALWAYS sounded somewhat thin and un-musical. After switching out numerous speakers , amp , ect .... I finally realized that was just how the P-9 sounded. TONS of resolution , but it just didn't convey the music. There are actually several Professional reviews that claimed they heard the same exact trait for what it's worth ....

If you still have it laying around and want to donate it to a charitable cause (i.e. me) Pm me and I'll send you my address:laugh:

MDXBLUE
10-14-2006, 12:06 AM
AlphaKenny1 and Blue,

I think you two had both make excellent points!!!

I strongly agree with Alphakenny1 that tuning is essential for "repairing" acoustic defficiencies in a car cabin. An environment with a small volume, untreated hard reflecting surfaces, and limited speakers positions are the challenges to ultimate sound quality. These things are responsible for the freq rsponse peak and dips. No high quality head unit can repair these alone. Therefore a processor with flexible tuning capabilites is needed to flat the freq response (tonality)so the sound output is true to the source.

I also completely agree with Blue that the sound from a quality cd player can not be duplicated by a mediocre player with a quality processor. The resolution, and "realness" of the sound simply have to produce by a head unit with good design and quality parts. These qualities are what separate the "Wow! your stereo sound fxxking good" from the "Holy cow! the musician is singing right in front of me". However, it really depend on how critical you are and what kind of music you listen to. Most guys here just want a good "radio" to hook up his ipod. Average guys would not know what to listen for unless they have listen to a high quality setup. Again, these "realness" and "naturalness" Blue talked about can only be heard after the acoustics problems in the car have been "repaired".

Essentially, I am looking for a setup that has a balanced of compromises between good tuning capabilities and high resolution simply because I can not afford to have both. A good specification only tell you part of the story.

Too bad, me and Thermal can not listen to the Alpine and the Clarion in our own vehicle to decide which way sound better. That would be the easiest way as only the end result count!

Black_Jesus
10-14-2006, 01:04 AM
go big or go home

alpine 9835.

squeak9798
10-14-2006, 09:25 AM
True, the processors are pretty equal, but the P9 headunit is better than the alpine HU that this guy was looking at. And I've only ever found the combo for sale within his budget. Purchasing the HU and DSP separately (ergo going with the H701) would be outside his range if he wanted the better HU.

that's just my .02

Not really sure why you think the p9 headunit is flat out "better" :confused:

Running digital, the headunit doesn't matter a whole hell of a lot. All it's being used for is a transport. Heck, some people just have their stock HU's modded to run digi output.....keeps the dash OEM, but gives you high quality audio at the same time.

You can get the H701/C701 combo from an authorized dealer for around $700 (much cheaper if you go unauthorized)....that leaves him atleast $300 to find any headunit with digital outputs to run with it.

Or, he can go with an Alpine headunit (like the 9860/9861) and the H701 and still be under his budget. Both of which are great units.

I got my H701/9860 for around $725 for the combo...brand new with warranty on everything ;)

thermal
10-16-2006, 09:10 AM
I did an internet search for "Clarion DRZ9255 Review" and found the following discussion.............

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2586&page=1&pp=10&highlight=drz

I though some of you might be interested in reading it.