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HitManSE
09-19-2006, 02:56 AM
Well after having them sitting & collecting dust for a few weeks I finally got them in. Yeah yeah, pics will come later. They are being powered by an Arc 2300 SE.

Although I was considering running an all Active 3 way setup, figured id just give these a shot and try a passive setup first to see how it goes & take it from there.

Needless to say im impressed with these things beyond what I can say. The mid bass pounds filling up the front stage with the right amount of bass, the tweets however are the best ive ever heard. Im honestly shocked it sounds as good as it does running passive. Crystal clear, crisp all while playing loud as hell. Im sure running active these would be even better but for now they are staying the way they are. I really dont see a need to go 3 way anytime soon.

As for a sub stage, that im still trying to work a few kinks out of. Using a RE reconed Brahma 15 once again powered by an Arc 2300 SE. Im still having a hard time adjusting to the "sealed" sound coming off a ported setup. I miss the ruthless shake everything bass of the previous setup to say the least.

Sure I have more clarity, but as far as getting loud it barley gets my face shaking, so its output is acceptable but im going to give it another 2-3 weeks before I decide things need to be changed. Overall the setup has less then 4 hrs of play time on it so I think a bit more time will help, besides im tired of spending $

Thanks for the gear Don.

j3bus2k3
09-19-2006, 02:59 AM
Good to hear since I'm considering the same set. Question, how well deadened is your vehicle? Its becoming apparent that it plays a role in midbass response and was curious as to how your car is set up.

alphakenny1
09-19-2006, 03:04 AM
can't totally comment on the rainbows as i haven't heard them before, but i'm guessing that the rainbows are an sq set. its supposed to sound good, not loud.

HitManSE
09-19-2006, 03:15 AM
Good to hear since I'm considering the same set. Question, how well deadened is your vehicle? Its becoming apparent that it plays a role in midbass response and was curious as to how your car is set up.

The trunk is loaded to an extent thats just kind of too much IMO. By that I mean several layers of SS Damplifier Pro topped with some sludge. Its all ovet the place. The trunk lid alone must weigh a good 20lbs + over what it used to.

The rear deck lid is loaded with it, had a vent put in the middle to let the air through as well. This used to be a horrible place for rattles. The rear doors only have 1 layer of deadener, considering I have no rear stage I saw no reason to go crazy on them.

The roof has a layer of SS Damplifier Pro covered from front to back & I mass loaded the rear half of the roof with sludge, plus the headliner itself has a layer of that foam...overkill was it?

The front doors have prob 10-12 cu ft of damplifier pro (if not upward to 16 ft) per door, and a can of VB- 1S per door as well as those Deflex 9" pads behind the mids. So its pretty well done.

I have virtually 0 rattles that Im aware of inside the car :cool:

I have a lot of pics of the sound deadening install, I just need to dig them up. It was a huge pain in the rear to say the least. Im glad its over.

HitManSE
09-19-2006, 03:18 AM
can't totally comment on the rainbows as i haven't heard them before, but i'm guessing that the rainbows are an sq set. its supposed to sound good, not loud.

Perhaps I should reword it then.

They can get really loud but still sound clear. Loud enough to make you uncomfortable to say the least. The clarity is still there, Im not turning it upto the point of distortion. I dont think I want to turn it up to that point anyway :eyebrow:

FoxPro5
09-19-2006, 10:27 AM
Just as a comparison. What did you have previously and where are the drivers installed in the vehicle?

headless
09-19-2006, 10:30 AM
w00t. Needs pics, imo.

3.5Max6spd
09-19-2006, 10:53 AM
Perhaps I should reword it then.

They can get really loud but still sound clear. Loud enough to make you uncomfortable to say the least. The clarity is still there, Im not turning it upto the point of distortion. I dont think I want to turn it up to that point anyway :eyebrow:

That set is ALL ABOUT LOUD SQ, they simply handle power and take on volume effortlessly without giving in or sounding strained. IMO they come across more efficient than the 90.5 db rating Rainbow gives them.

On their site I quote ' Up to the treshold of pain and far beyond.' Is **** right, I havent heard a nicer full bodied silk tweeter that can hang at those levels and never fell like its pulling away from the midbass.

They are a fabulous set, congratulations. The ONLY midbass I personally wouldn't mind tossing my 8's out the window for.

headless
09-19-2006, 11:01 AM
:D Maybe i need to sell my germs and go with the powerlines. :D You bastard, 3.5!

HitManSE
09-19-2006, 11:24 AM
Just as a comparison. What did you have previously and where are the drivers installed in the vehicle?

Boston Pros running off a JL 300.4 I had them at 150x2 for a bit. They sounded pretty good for what it was. The difference is very obvious though. Not saying the Bostons were bad, its just these things IMO are on another level so to speak.

I could turn the sub down and still have the front of the car filled with a decent amount of bass. The tweeters however are just crystal.

HitManSE
09-19-2006, 11:37 AM
That set is ALL ABOUT LOUD SQ, they simply handle power and take on volume effortlessly without giving in or sounding strained. IMO they come across more efficient than the 90.5 db rating Rainbow gives them.

On their site I quote ' Up to the treshold of pain and far beyond.' Is **** right, I havent heard a nicer full bodied silk tweeter that can hang at those levels and never fell like its pulling away from the midbass.

They are a fabulous set, congratulations. The ONLY midbass I personally wouldn't mind tossing my 8's out the window for.

Yeah you sure wernt kidding. They arnt even broken in yet and still sound the way they do. Treshold of pain is probably a good way to describe them, those tweets are sooo **** nice, its hard to describe how accurate & crisp they really are even at volume levels that can make your head hurt lol

The midbass doesnt hurt my ears but it sure does shake my doors, pant leg, even the center consule. I thought it was the sub at first. Im actually wondering how they would sound running off an active 3-way setup (which was my idea to begin with) but that can wait. Im still amazed they sound this good off a simple passive setup.

Manny I tried that postal code CD you mentioned before, while some of the songs are a bit odd :eyebrow: the amount of detail in some of those songs is just :eek:

Then again I feel like im hearing songs ive heard many many times over like it was the 1st time. There are sounds there ive never heard before, lol

HitManSE
09-19-2006, 11:42 AM
:D Maybe i need to sell my germs and go with the powerlines. :D You bastard, 3.5!

Ive never heard the Germs before, but the powerline CS wont disappoint. I am feeding them with a good 340+ watts per side too.

I'll try to find the pics of the comps before the install. During install I couldnt take, I have yet to take after pics though.

HitManSE
09-19-2006, 03:03 PM
Heres some of the pics I dug up.

The 1st set is various pics of the comps, amps, sub.

http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/6e85a19148.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/4a7e1717a4.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/5a2cb2e33b.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/825889c0f7.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/df1bd161cf.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/293493a5de.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/ed64ef1736.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/623be40609.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/b9ecf2c936.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/190b329a0d.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/0f1dd88d44.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/43dff607a1.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/8af6198606.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/ae3eb4e545.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/f248f731a8.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/eb423854bc.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/150442bbea.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/5a1d914e88.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/d6d1199647.jpg

and now the 2nd half, most of the sound deadener install. More work was done since the pics but you get the idea. All the pics are pretty much self explanitory.

http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/6f2f8000ba.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/a12617f51e.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/d041896931.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/237fd4dd28.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/fd689dd263.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/f5f5bdf07e.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/473e86b355.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/fa45d8b10c.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/b521e5b352.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/f72a3c744a.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/d6662e1cb7.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/6f14ae538a.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/cc887862f5.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/2bf9ecaeea.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/f53ecd2855.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/cb9f3fcc93.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/f3d7b5f294.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/ec5d100cd7.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/af9c23cf12.jpg
http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/fcb2b55f46.jpg

Ill get some new pics of the install later on.

Sonnick
09-19-2006, 03:15 PM
Wow..340 per side?! That's some serious power..glad you enjoy them. How are the vocals with these?

headless
09-19-2006, 03:20 PM
That's a freakin lot of deadening.

khail19
09-19-2006, 03:37 PM
Wow, you are insane. But in a good way! Nice work, must have taken forever to do all that deadening.

GrnEydDvl
09-19-2006, 03:54 PM
Mine are on the way. I can't wait. I am trying not to let my expectations get too high, but from all the praise on here it is hard not to.

Congrats on your new speakers.

SQBubble
09-19-2006, 04:09 PM
how much did it cost u for all this deadening??!
nice equipment yo, these components doesnt stop to impress me just by the looks of it...do they play loud and clear down to 60hz? or is it better to be crossed at 80hz?

HitManSE
09-19-2006, 04:09 PM
Wow..340 per side?! That's some serious power..glad you enjoy them. How are the vocals with these?


Yep, the gains are set right though and I dont turn it up to the point of distortion. Im sure they will hold up just fine. Vocals are great, the more time I play them the better it sounds (still breaking in)



That's a freakin lot of deadening.


Why the hell not. 1 time deal and its over.



Wow, you are insane. But in a good way! Nice work, must have taken forever to do all that deadening.


After all this I kind of feel the same way, I dont want to mess with the car any more after this. Thanks, & the deadening took honestly 4-5 months. Did it during any spare time I had at work. 10-20min here & there, every 4-5 days, ect.. Took a long time but after that I pretty much had enough.

HitManSE
09-19-2006, 04:10 PM
Mine are on the way. I can't wait. I am trying not to let my expectations get too high, but from all the praise on here it is hard not to.

Congrats on your new speakers.


I doubt you'll be disappointed.

HitManSE
09-19-2006, 04:11 PM
how much did it cost u for all this deadening??!
nice equipment yo, these components doesnt stop to impress me just by the looks of it...do they play loud and clear down to 60hz? or is it better to be crossed at 80hz?

Deadening was over 600. Thanks & the comps play loud and clear down below 60hx. More like down to 40hz.

keath23
04-16-2007, 06:32 PM
Hitman now that you have the rainbow powerlne cs's installed for a few months, how do you like them. Also the pics are not appearing when I click your links. I just bought a pair of these speakers (due to arrive any day now), and I am interested in the best placement in my vehicle to get the best imaging and soundstaging. I am going to also deaden my doors to get better midbass.

alphakenny1
04-16-2007, 06:47 PM
^^ You are going to have to experiment first to ultimately find out where it the best placement. tuning and install will go a long way.

HitManSE
04-16-2007, 06:50 PM
Hitman now that you have the rainbow powerlne cs's installed for a few months, how do you like them. Also the pics are not appearing when I click your links. I just bought a pair of these speakers (due to arrive any day now), and I am interested in the best placement in my vehicle to get the best imaging and soundstaging. I am going to also deaden my doors to get better midbass.

Still love em.

I think I have too much power going to them and I would be able to turn it up even louder if it wasnt for the 330+ rms going per channel. The midbass's are fine, but the tweeter protect lights (in the crossovers) gets glowing pretty bright during some vocals, guitar solos, ect.

Thats when I turn it down. That is also the reason I say its too much power. An active setup would work much better for this setup IMO. I dont think these tweeters need much more then 100/rms.

The best placment varies from vechicle to vehicle so I dont know what location would work best for your car. Good to know you're at least considering that though. Best of luck with it. The pics were on a server that held the pics for I think it was 45 days (give or take) so they're gone :D

Im sure I can dig them up from my home PC though.

theothermike
04-16-2007, 07:06 PM
lol 100 watts to tweeters try at most like 80............ jeeze i dont wanna no what 100 watts to tweeters sound like if gains set accurately to a rated 100

that be loudddddddddddddddd

keath23
04-16-2007, 07:14 PM
Hitman, where did you place your speakers in your vehicle, most importantly the tweeter. I understand that this tweeter images extremely well off axis. If your tweeter placement is off axis. is this true?

HitManSE
04-16-2007, 08:19 PM
lol 100 watts to tweeters try at most like 80............ jeeze i dont wanna no what 100 watts to tweeters sound like if gains set accurately to a rated 100

that be loudddddddddddddddd

:laugh:

True, in a way I wish I had a separate 2 channel for the tweeters , a set 4" mids and a 4 channel to power those two and the midbass, aka active.

It would be much be easier to tune, ect. As for a true 100/rms set to these tweeters. It would be painful to say the least. I wouldnt even want to attempt that.


Hitman, where did you place your speakers in your vehicle, most importantly the tweeter. I understand that this tweeter images extremely well off axis. If your tweeter placement is off axis. is this true?

Mine are mounted on-axis, they are faced towards the center of the car, at a slight upward angle. I would have done a complete on-axis if the doors didnt need further modifying the door panels to accomplish that.

I havnt heard a set mounted off-axis, so I really cant comment on how well it does mounted that way. I was always under the impression, soft dome tweeters are to be installed on-axis (facing you) and hard dome (metal dome) tweeters are to be mounted off-axis (reflecting off the windshield)

the727kid
04-16-2007, 08:51 PM
How much did you pay for them?

HitManSE
04-16-2007, 09:44 PM
How much did you pay for them?

Thats something Don can answer more accurately for you :D

About double what the germs cost, give or take.

the727kid
04-16-2007, 10:03 PM
****! Nvm, I'll just add another set of Germs lol.

req
04-16-2007, 11:08 PM
pics dont work :confused:

Buffalohed
04-17-2007, 01:18 AM
...
Im honestly shocked it sounds as good as it does running passive.
...
Im sure running active these would be even better
...
I don't understand these statements :confused:

Passive doesn't actually have any effect on the sound quality of the speakers, unless I am failing to understand something??? Should I expect components run passively to not sound as good as active ones?

I mean, I understand that it means you can tune differently when you are active, but what would you change the crossover frequency to if you were running the Powerline CS active that would make them sound better than they do now? Is there some kind of resonance or cabin gain at the xover freq set in the passive xover that distorts the sound or something?

If someone could explain this stuff to me that would be really cool... thanks.

HitManSE
04-17-2007, 03:25 AM
I don't understand these statements :confused:

Passive doesn't actually have any effect on the sound quality of the speakers, unless I am failing to understand something??? Should I expect components run passively to not sound as good as active ones?

I mean, I understand that it means you can tune differently when you are active, but what would you change the crossover frequency to if you were running the Powerline CS active that would make them sound better than they do now? Is there some kind of resonance or cabin gain at the xover freq set in the passive xover that distorts the sound or something?

If someone could explain this stuff to me that would be really cool... thanks.

Look at the dates they were posted.

The setup sounds great as is, however the midbass' dip pretty low in the frequency range. A lot lower then id like them to. I dont have an EQ, and since its running off a passive I cant exactly control that too well either.

In other words, I dont exactly need my front stage dipping down to 30hz. This set does that, and it hinders the ability to turn the volume up more due to distortion. Though its cool that they can dip that low, id much rather have the sub handle anything below 60hz. That would not only sound better since the midbass's wouldnt distort at a lower volume, but allow me to crank up the volume some more without distortion. That is what I was referring to when I said.


Im sure running active these would be even better

Thats the real crutch when it comes to a passive setup IMO, especially this one. Though it sounds great, Id personally prefer running this set active if you really want to see what this comp set could do. I would also add a 4" lotus or something up to par with the set to free up the midbass & tweeter to the frequencies they like as well.

What frequencies, well that would probably take a while to get dead on so id be playing with it for a while. I would start by setting 60hz and under to the sub, 60-250ish to the midbass's, 250-3.0khz for the mids, and 3.0khz on up for the tweeters and work on it from there on.

HitManSE
04-17-2007, 03:26 AM
pics dont work :confused:

Old thread. Ill try to get the pics up again tomorrow sometime, if I find them that is :D

Buffalohed
04-17-2007, 02:12 PM
Look at the dates they were posted.

The setup sounds great as is, however the midbass' dip pretty low in the frequency range. A lot lower then id like them to. I dont have an EQ, and since its running off a passive I cant exactly control that too well either.

In other words, I dont exactly need my front stage dipping down to 30hz. This set does that, and it hinders the ability to turn the volume up more due to distortion. Though its cool that they can dip that low, id much rather have the sub handle anything below 60hz. That would not only sound better since the midbass's wouldnt distort at a lower volume, but allow me to crank up the volume some more without distortion. That is what I was referring to when I said.



Thats the real crutch when it comes to a passive setup IMO, especially this one. Though it sounds great, Id personally prefer running this set active if you really want to see what this comp set could do. I would also add a 4" lotus or something up to par with the set to free up the midbass & tweeter to the frequencies they like as well.

What frequencies, well that would probably take a while to get dead on so id be playing with it for a while. I would start by setting 60hz and under to the sub, 60-250ish to the midbass's, 250-3.0khz for the mids, and 3.0khz on up for the tweeters and work on it from there on.
I realize it was an old thread. But a lot of people had already been posting in it recently so I didn't see a problem.

What you are describing is the lack of a high pass filter. So I am assuming you are sending a full-range signal to the components. Well, that has nothing to do with passive or active... you can just as easily highpass the signal while running passive as you can while running active. If you changed to active and only lowpassed the midrange and highpassed the tweeter, you would have the exact same problem you do now. If you can't highpass it now with your current equipment that means you won't be able to highpass it while active without new equipment.

I know that adding a midrange is an advantage and will make the setup sound better. If by "running active" you simply meant adding a midrange in to make it a 3-way, then obviously that is going to be better. But you made it sound like there was a huge difference between the 2-way passive and 2-way active. Also, you mentioned you don't have an EQ, and that is also going to be as much of, if not more of a problem if you go active.

Not trying to argue with you here man I was just puzzled by why you said some things, but I see now what you were really talking about.

3.5Max6spd
04-17-2007, 02:31 PM
I realize it was an old thread. But a lot of people had already been posting in it recently so I didn't see a problem.

What you are describing is the lack of a high pass filter. So I am assuming you are sending a full-range signal to the components. Well, that has nothing to do with passive or active... you can just as easily highpass the signal while running passive as you can while running active. If you changed to active and only lowpassed the midrange and highpassed the tweeter, you would have the exact same problem you do now. If you can't highpass it now with your current equipment that means you won't be able to highpass it while active without new equipment.

I know that adding a midrange is an advantage and will make the setup sound better. If by "running active" you simply meant adding a midrange in to make it a 3-way, then obviously that is going to be better. But you made it sound like there was a huge difference between the 2-way passive and 2-way active. Also, you mentioned you don't have an EQ, and that is also going to be as much of, if not more of a problem if you go active.

Not trying to argue with you here man I was just puzzled by why you said some things, but I see now what you were really talking about.

Its not unreasonanable to infer that, since by going active you have the control to make ones stock location work for you- whether at the crossover point(and how they are affected so by their location in terms of resonance, reflections, diffraction..), individual gain control for optimal level matching, individual time alignment, phasing....etc.

Buffalohed
04-17-2007, 03:00 PM
Right. When considering the fact that you need more equipment for active, it makes sense that you will have access to things like time-alignment and phase because of the increased amount of equipment, but personally I see no reason that you couldn't have the same features available to you while running your setup passive, assuming you have the right equipment (minus level matching which I don't think is possible with passive).

But really it's not an indictment of the SQ of passive systems, it's simply a matter of what gear you have, which is a factor regardless of how your speakers are run.

HitManSE
04-17-2007, 06:31 PM
I realize it was an old thread. But a lot of people had already been posting in it recently so I didn't see a problem.

What you are describing is the lack of a high pass filter. So I am assuming you are sending a full-range signal to the components. Well, that has nothing to do with passive or active... you can just as easily highpass the signal while running passive as you can while running active. If you changed to active and only lowpassed the midrange and highpassed the tweeter, you would have the exact same problem you do now. If you can't highpass it now with your current equipment that means you won't be able to highpass it while active without new equipment.

The high pass is set at a 24db slow at about 80hz. The mids still play a down to the 30hz range. I have the HU set to send the sub anything under 80, the mids still like to play deep.

Heres a pic (both the same, 1 with and 1 w/o flash) of where everything is currently set at on the amp:

http://www.imghut.net/show.php?img=17602
http://www.imghut.net/show.php?img=17605

Perhaps I need to crank it up the high pass to a higher frequency, im still messing with it.



I know that adding a midrange is an advantage and will make the setup sound better. If by "running active" you simply meant adding a midrange in to make it a 3-way, then obviously that is going to be better. But you made it sound like there was a huge difference between the 2-way passive and 2-way active. Also, you mentioned you don't have an EQ, and that is also going to be as much of, if not more of a problem if you go active.

By running active, I meant just that, active. No passovers, just what the amp(s) have. Manny already pointed out some of the reasons, the only downside is it makes things a lot harder to tune correctly, but thats not too big an issue IMO.

Adding another driver to the setup is only to spread the freq range covered on the speakers currently there. I dont think I need to explain the benefit of that.



Not trying to argue with you here man I was just puzzled by why you said some things, but I see now what you were really talking about.

Understandable, I wasnt taking it the wrong way.

DejaWiz
04-18-2007, 05:40 PM
Nice comps HitManSE! I'd kill for a set of those.

me = jealous

alphakenny1
04-18-2007, 06:37 PM
Lotus midrange would be ******* with that comp set. I have a pair of my own and i love them :D

DejaWiz
04-18-2007, 06:44 PM
I have a pair of my own and i love them :D

Of Lotus mids or *******? :eyebrow: :confused:

3.5Max6spd
04-18-2007, 06:48 PM
Of Lotus mids or *******? :eyebrow: :confused:

both...:blackeye:

HitManSE
04-18-2007, 08:52 PM
Nice comps HitManSE! I'd kill for a set of those.

me = jealous

Thanks.


Lotus midrange would be ******* with that comp set. I have a pair of my own and i love them :D

Im sure they would, if it wasnt for the magnesium ones being 8ohm, id go fpr those but the RM110s would be my choice.


QUOTE=DejaWiz;2962629]Of Lotus mids or *******? :eyebrow: :confused:[/QUOTE]

atm, just ******* :naughty:


both...:blackeye:

^ I like how this man thinks :)

Ill have to see what id do next. Id love to get another Arc SE amp (I think Don just cracked a smile :laugh: ) but after messing with my 2300's :verymad: Lets just say its the kind of amp where you dont install 100% until you're done tuning. I lost one of those small screws in the front cover today. I swear they are the smallest **** screws ive seen on any amp.

Don, send me like 20 more of them!!!

trunks9_us
06-26-2007, 03:15 AM
i wanna see these pics of the deadening.

HitManSE
06-26-2007, 01:13 PM
i wanna see these pics of the deadening.

Ill have to dig those up when I get back, they are on my work computer and im out of town for at least 12 days.

filtor1
08-15-2007, 12:18 PM
Bump. I would like to see the pics as well if you get some free time!