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View Full Version : My first box log. *pics*



ultimate157
09-14-2006, 10:58 AM
This is my 4th box built. First one was made out of old, hole ridden 5/8 particle board for 2 pioneer 10's. Second was 1 cube for a TS-W106DVC Pioneer Premier made out of the right stuff - 3/4 MDF. Next was a 1 cube for my SW8200, which is being used ATM.

This one is made with 3/4 MDF, all cuts made with a circular saw (first time i used it for cutting important lines, vs just 2x4's) So I think it came out pretty good.

It's a 4.4^3 sealed that I tested out for a .707 QTC alignment on my Eclipse SW8200. For the love of god, in that enclosure, it was the loudest I had ever heard (actually, felt) between 15 and 20 hz. If I opened the door of my Jeep a crack, I would bounce quarters off the roof 3-4" @ 20hz with only 250 watts of power.

Anyway, to the pics.

How they all begin:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/Ultimate157/Box%20Pics/Trailer.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/Ultimate157/Box%20Pics/BoxSides.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/Ultimate157/Box%20Pics/Seam.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/Ultimate157/Box%20Pics/Caulk.jpg

God i love the look of a recessed front baffle. All my boxes from now on are going to be built around this ;)

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/Ultimate157/Box%20Pics/Cutout.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/Ultimate157/Box%20Pics/ilovescrews.jpg

I realize a lot of you build boxes without screws, but I can't stand that for some reason. I'm not saying you guys build bad boxes or anything, I just like the security of having screws in there along with the Titebond II.

I'm probably going to make this into a ported box later on. I can remove the front two baffles because I didn't glue them in ( I knew I would probably change the design)

acreature
09-14-2006, 01:23 PM
Looks nice, just need to dress it up ;)




God i love the look of a recessed front baffle.Just that extra weight scares me away from it... every ounce increases gas useage :eek:

vetkilr
09-14-2006, 01:27 PM
Looks nice, just need to dress it up ;)


Just that extra weight scares me away from it... every ounce increases gas useage :eek:

Hell gas went down .30 in the last month so who cares:p:

ultimate157
09-14-2006, 01:29 PM
Hell gas went down .30 in the last month so who cares:p:

I wouldn't be surprised if it goes back up.

A second front baffle isnt going to do much considering the whole thing weighs in at 50lbs+

vetkilr
09-14-2006, 01:29 PM
With that big a box you should really port it and try it out for the hell of it and tune it low like 25-28hz with a few 4 " pvc pieces Id bet you'd be surprised and keep it in there.

OneKrazyKeebler
09-14-2006, 01:33 PM
With that big a box you should really port it and try it out for the hell of it and tune it low like 25-28hz with a few 4 " pvc pieces Id bet you'd be surprised and keep it in there.

x2, never get as much output in a sealed vs. properly ported.

Yeah, that is a good looking box, it just needs to be covered in something IMO

ultimate157
09-14-2006, 01:40 PM
x2, never get as much output in a sealed vs. properly ported.

Yeah, that is a good looking box, it just needs to be covered in something IMO

I have never done a ported box before. Right now its 4.4 cubes as it sits. Can someone tell me the dimensions of port's i'd need? Right now the box is doing nothing in my garage...

ultimate157
09-14-2006, 01:42 PM
why don't you put a few more screws in it?:p:

i LOVE screws. They make me feel secure about the structural integrity of the box. Plus since I did it right, they are very nice. Pre drilled, countersinked, and torqued to maximum before stripping (I love torque settings on my drill, makes it so much easier)

acreature
09-14-2006, 01:43 PM
Hell gas went down .30 in the last month so who cares:p:Shite, 65 cents plus drop here so far! But, yeah, it'll go back up.

ultimate157
09-14-2006, 01:44 PM
Oh yea, one more thing. I plan on getting one of these bad boys for our router:

http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product_details.cfm?sku=2013&filter=%22Lewin%20Router%20Compass%22

I know I'm going to be making more boxes, so that would make PERFECT circles.

reneeb7363
09-14-2006, 01:46 PM
I agree with you... I like the chemical (glue) as well as the mechanical (screws)bonding method. As long as you pre-drill and countersink the screws to maximize their effectiveness and overall completed look of the box.

What are you going to dress this one up with?

more pics please! LOL!

vetkilr
09-14-2006, 01:55 PM
Two 4" Ports about 19.25" long will get you a 4 cube box at 28 hz........give or take.

springy101
09-14-2006, 01:55 PM
bare mdf boxes gives me wood

ultimate157
09-14-2006, 02:06 PM
Two 4" Ports about 19.25" long will get you a 4 cube box at 28 hz........give or take.

So that means I should set my SSF to 28hz, no? Im still 100% noob on ported boxes.

Also, are there any PVC port tuts. out there?

vetkilr
09-14-2006, 02:08 PM
So that means I should set my SSF to 28hz, no? Im still 100% noob on ported boxes.

Also, are there any PVC port tuts. out there?

I always do mine at .75 less which would be 21 hz.

If you want lower no prob.

Chevyaudio
09-14-2006, 02:11 PM
Order 2 aero ports from Parts Express. The flares will help reduce port noise.

ultimate157
09-14-2006, 02:16 PM
Order 2 aero ports from Parts Express. The flares will help reduce port noise.

What length would I need if I used 4? I have the box pointing up and I dont want the ports to fire into the side of my jeep's cargo area. The front height is 14.75" outside, so 12.5 inside dimension.

Inside dimensions of box are 34.5 x 18.5 x 12.5

springy101
09-14-2006, 02:18 PM
firing to the side would be fine, or just point the sub towards your liftgate and have the ports on that same side.

vetkilr
09-14-2006, 02:23 PM
What length would I need if I used 4? I have the box pointing up and I dont want the ports to fire into the side of my jeep's cargo area. The front height is 14.75" outside, so 12.5 inside dimension.

Inside dimensions of box are 34.5 x 18.5 x 12.5

Your gonna need to use PVC and get 90 degree turns to put port on the sub face side cause the ports are to long.Not a biggie.

25HZ= Two ports 4" PVC need to be 25.5" long.

Youll lose output but you like the lows you try this first.

ultimate157
09-14-2006, 02:46 PM
How hard would it be to make a slot port with the front baffles out? It's still removable...

mikey060
09-14-2006, 03:04 PM
not incredibly hard...but it wouldnt be easy, just do some measurements and drill some holes

JAZN
09-14-2006, 03:09 PM
Cuts look pretty straight for using a circular saw.
x2, nice job. Did you make the cutouts with a jigsaw or a router?

j3bus2k3
09-14-2006, 03:09 PM
I thought it was generally said that you tune a ported box low (20's) to get the response that a sealed box would have...

...If he wants lows, he should just stick with an oversized sealed.

ultimate157
09-14-2006, 03:15 PM
x2, nice job. Did you make the cutouts with a jigsaw or a router?

Jigsaw. The holes were absolutely horrible. I'm going to order a Jigsaw Compass so I can make perfect cuts.

vetkilr
09-14-2006, 04:23 PM
I thought it was generally said that you tune a ported box low (20's) to get the response that a sealed box would have...

...If he wants lows, he should just stick with an oversized sealed.

Comon man you know 4.4 cubes for a 12 sealed is too much:p:

j3bus2k3
09-14-2006, 04:28 PM
Comon man you know 4.4 cubes for a 12 sealed is too much:p:

O I know...its fvcking huge...I was kinda hopin in the back of my head that this was for a 15.

mazdakid
09-14-2006, 04:41 PM
bare mdf boxes gives me wood

i think your just looking at his bare wood so your thinking its your own

ultimate157
09-14-2006, 04:48 PM
i think your just looking at his bare wood so your thinking its your own

hah now now, not so personal :naughty:

Immacomputer
09-14-2006, 06:24 PM
i LOVE screws. They make me feel secure about the structural integrity of the box. Plus since I did it right, they are very nice. Pre drilled, countersinked, and torqued to maximum before stripping (I love torque settings on my drill, makes it so much easier)

I know you won't believe me, but putting more screws in there actually LOWERS the structural integrity of the enclosure. Even pre-drilled holes reduce it. Will the enclosure fail? No; I doubt it. Is it weaker than maybe 1 or two screws per side? Yes.

coolahan
09-15-2006, 01:26 PM
gas went down .80 cents here.. nice looking box bro.. i'm with you on the screws too..

coolahan
09-15-2006, 01:26 PM
I know you won't believe me, but putting more screws in there actually LOWERS the structural integrity of the enclosure. Even pre-drilled holes reduce it. Will the enclosure fail? No; I doubt it. Is it weaker than maybe 1 or two screws per side? Yes.

proove it

lilmaniac2
09-15-2006, 01:30 PM
Yea since screws are what holds the box together. more really hurt

Immacomputer
09-15-2006, 02:44 PM
Yea since screws are what holds the box together. more really hurt



I hope you don't use screws to hold your enclosures together (as in, if you take the screws out, the enclosure will fall apart). That's just poor craftsmanship there.

proove it

Phil at www.woodlawncabinetry.com did a test using a compressor and measured at what pressure enclosures failed. If I remember correctly, he used multiple enclosures that he built and tested for their breaking points. I'm pretty sure that he found the weakest link of the enclosures to be the MDF and not the glue joint.

I took an old enclosure and pulled out every single screw from it and tried to break it. After playing it very hard and dropping it off my roof, it was still solid. I went at it with a bat and when the enclosure broke, it separated from the wood and not the joint. The sad part is that I used plumbers caulk to glue the enclosure together because it was just a ghetto quick-fix box and that's all I had.

Like I said before, you won't notice a difference and you probably won't have a failure but you are wasting screws and your time (even though it's very little) on something that is only making things worse. But either way, you won't believe me and will go on doing what you're doing. If you haven't had any trouble, why change, right?

ultimate157
09-15-2006, 03:33 PM
I hope you don't use screws to hold your enclosures together (as in, if you take the screws out, the enclosure will fall apart). That's just poor craftsmanship there.


Phil at www.woodlawncabinetry.com did a test using a compressor and measured at what pressure enclosures failed. If I remember correctly, he used multiple enclosures that he built and tested for their breaking points. I'm pretty sure that he found the weakest link of the enclosures to be the MDF and not the glue joint.

I took an old enclosure and pulled out every single screw from it and tried to break it. After playing it very hard and dropping it off my roof, it was still solid. I went at it with a bat and when the enclosure broke, it separated from the wood and not the joint. The sad part is that I used plumbers caulk to glue the enclosure together because it was just a ghetto quick-fix box and that's all I had.

Like I said before, you won't notice a difference and you probably won't have a failure but you are wasting screws and your time (even though it's very little) on something that is only making things worse. But either way, you won't believe me and will go on doing what you're doing. If you haven't had any trouble, why change, right?

Even though what you said may be true, all it does is prove how strong the glue is used to hold the MDF walls together. You have two sides to a proof. Just because you proved how strong the glue is, it doesn't mean the converse is true. The converse being that screws are weakening the structure.

Immacomputer
09-15-2006, 04:27 PM
Even though what you said may be true, all it does is prove how strong the glue is used to hold the MDF walls together. You have two sides to a proof. Just because you proved how strong the glue is, it doesn't mean the converse is true. The converse being that screws are weakening the structure.

More screws = less surface area for glue to cover and also may pull the wood in too close causing a good amount of glue to leak out the sides instead of being absorbed. Also, even if you pre-drill the holes, the screws will make the wood split easier and this is how my enclosure failed. Have you ever separated MDF before? I recently had to do this for an amp rack and do you know how I did it? I drilled in three screws across a 12" section of MDF. This caused a mild crack that was easily exploited and I was able to make two bases using the split piece of wood.

reneeb7363
09-15-2006, 04:30 PM
a few screws in the box does assist you in making sure the seals/edges are glued together tightly ... similiar, if you will, to putting a mess of clamps on the box until the glue has had time to cure... Any good cabinet and/or furniture maker will instruct you in such. The glue will absorb into a particle or fiberboard and create a better hold in the long run but it is really all about establishing a solid bond in the first place...Extremely VITAL to the quality of the cabinet/box/enclosure...what have you.



.............that's just my opinion---I could be wrong! At least I am woman enough to admit it! LOL !!!!

LeofromtheH
09-15-2006, 04:42 PM
a few screws in the box does assist you in making sure the seals/edges are glued together tightly ... similiar, if you will, to putting a mess of clamps on the box until the glue has had time to cure... Any good cabinet and/or furniture maker will instruct you in such. The glue will absorb into a particle or fiberboard and create a better hold in the long run but it is really all about establishing a solid bond in the first place...Extremely VITAL to the quality of the cabinet/box/enclosure...what have you.



.............that's just my opinion---I could be wrong! At least I am woman enough to admit it! LOL !!!!

:iagree:

nice box btw, but i honestly don't think you need that many screws

ultimate157
09-15-2006, 04:42 PM
More screws = less surface area for glue to cover and also may pull the wood in too close causing a good amount of glue to leak out the sides instead of being absorbed. Also, even if you pre-drill the holes, the screws will make the wood split easier and this is how my enclosure failed. Have you ever separated MDF before? I recently had to do this for an amp rack and do you know how I did it? I drilled in three screws across a 12" section of MDF. This caused a mild crack that was easily exploited and I was able to make two bases using the split piece of wood.

You're also talking about putting perfect cut boards together. My boards weren't perfectly straight, therefor they needed to be tighter anyways. and a 3/32 pin-hole ain't exactly a noticable difference when talking a 36" long 3/4" wide glueing face.

Immacomputer
09-15-2006, 05:20 PM
You're also talking about putting perfect cut boards together. My boards weren't perfectly straight, therefor they needed to be tighter anyways. and a 3/32 pin-hole ain't exactly a noticable difference when talking a 36" long 3/4" wide glueing face.

Don't take what I'm saying personally and also don't misinterpret me either. If you need the screws to fix a bad cut (I would really suggest a re-cut if you have the wood) then so be it. What I'm saying is that all those extra screws will lower the integrity of the enclosure. It's not a big deal but I don't want people thinking it's the other way around and worrying about putting tons of screws into their enclosure when it is not needed.

I use screws to hold the pieces square and together while the glue cures. I usually only use 1 screw if under 12" and two if over 12" and I have never had a problem.

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/2310/12tc9.jpg

ultimate157
09-15-2006, 05:31 PM
Heh, didn't mean to sound personal. I just like a good, thoughtful argument every-so-often.

MrSwiss
09-15-2006, 09:53 PM
agreed screws and pretty friggin awesome + titebond.

PowerNaudio
09-15-2006, 10:31 PM
i agree with the use of screws. i have found out that the closes you want to have them using 3/4"mdf is 6" that keeps the mdf safe from any spliting even if pre-drilling and it does actualy add to the strength of the enclosure. if using brad nails. every 4" work great. i have been able to separate two pieces of wood that had just been glued together with tightbond II. with my bare hands. but with screws on it it was almost imposible. had to use a hammer. but any ways lots of people will argue this issue im just giving you my two cents.


and for turning your sealed enclosure into a ported enclosure here are some nice apps that can help you make it happen.

i have been using this nice software thats free along with winISD is box notes (http://www.users.bigpond.com/bcolliso/freesoft.htm).
here is what you get out of it.
#
Take into account the extra volume taken up by your ports, bracing and driver

#
Check the minimum dimensions required to house your driver

#
Quickly see the effect of changing port parameters

#
Spot problem resonances and adjust your dimensions to minimise their impact

#
Print your cutting list, including optional allowance for trimming with router

#
Save your work in boxnotes project files, including comments

#
Supports both Imperial and metric measurements

#
Generate a text based report containing your choice of information


great looking enclosure you built there. let us know how it sounds once you get runing.
laters

ultimate157
09-16-2006, 12:05 AM
great looking enclosure you built there. let us know how it sounds once you get runing.
laters

I think I'm going to throw the sub back in it tomorrow and tell you guys how it sounds on music. I played test tones with it before @ 20hz and was bouncing quarters. I know I keep saying it but i've never heard of a sealed doing that kind of pressure @ 20hz. I'd like to get it metered ...

Bake
09-16-2006, 01:13 AM
That is a nice looking box. It doesn't look like your cuts were too far off.

The less is more take on the screws is right. Too many and the MDF can split. I bought a brad nailer when I first started building boxes and it has been worth every penny of whatever I paid for it back then.

Oh yeah,,I would use some bracing in a box that big.