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View Full Version : Cutout hole for 12" Type R ??? *PICS*



SHiZNiLTi
09-12-2006, 06:42 PM
I'm in the process of building my first box. So far I pretty much have all of it done except for the cutout hole for the new 12" Alpine Type R SWR-1222D that will be here hopefully on Friday or Monday. The BXi 1606D will be purchased in 2 weeks or probably next paycheck.

What is the diameter of the cutout hole for this woofer that I need to make?

Good Idea to paint the inside of the port black before you put it all together...
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3046/box2us3.jpg

Husky air nail guns...
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3170/box3zf7.jpg

Hella tight...
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/379/box4ct4.jpg

Will look good once it's carpeted black...
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/9620/box5eu4.jpg

The factory cover still works so the system is not visable from outside...
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3186/box8xo8.jpg

Pic with the top off to expose the tuned port at 30hz...
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/9835/box9rv2.jpg

Another angle with top off, notice the double thick front, no flex allowed...
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/5374/box10dn5.jpg

Can't see it from outside...
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/7643/box7kd3.jpg

Pic from inside with the back seats down...
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6803/box6go9.jpg

What the end result will be like, this guy uses close to the same design...
http://www.realmofexcursion.com/videos/Alpine/typer12.51.wmv

*09/18/06*...

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3590/box2my1.jpg

MA$E
09-12-2006, 07:02 PM
looks good for a first time build.

Worlddre
09-12-2006, 07:04 PM
cutout is 10.9"

mikey060
09-12-2006, 07:06 PM
what way you facing the sub? that double baffle screams backwards...but wouldnt top be better?

tommyk90
09-12-2006, 07:06 PM
What are the specs on that box?

Seems a little large for a single 12"

JoshHd6
09-12-2006, 07:07 PM
wats the height on that box..

mikey060
09-12-2006, 07:07 PM
looks like 3 cubes

thatkidbob
09-12-2006, 07:08 PM
What are the specs on that box?

Seems a little large for a single 12"

it'll have a some nice gain around tuning though :)

just take it easy with the volume...

PV Audio
09-12-2006, 07:14 PM
No, it is not a good idea to paint the port that way before putting it together. Wood glue bonds wood to wood, not wood to paint. You don't really have a bond if you're gluing sealed/painted wood to end grain. Think about it like this. Stick your tongue to a piece of paper, and it'll pick it up. Stick your tongue to the same piece of paper but only laminated, and it won't pick it up.

DaGh0st
09-12-2006, 07:18 PM
looks nice.

SHiZNiLTi
09-12-2006, 07:22 PM
What are the specs on that box?

Seems a little large for a single 12"

Click to enlarge...

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/7937/alpineswr1222dboxdesignsmallba2.jpg (http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2397/alpineswr1222dboxdesignfu5.jpg)

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/4467/alpineswr1222d4x6ftmdfsmallpi1.jpg (http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/6435/4x8ftoa4.jpg)

PV Audio
09-12-2006, 07:23 PM
Three cubes is too big for that sub man.

JoshHd6
09-12-2006, 07:26 PM
looks nice..bro.

PV Audio
09-12-2006, 07:29 PM
what way you facing the sub? that double baffle screams backwards...but wouldnt top be better?
I've designed and made a box like that before :)

nVRuckus
09-12-2006, 07:29 PM
gonna bottom out with about 500 w I think. I put mine in a 3.5 box just for laughes and could only put about 350w before it sounded like ***.

SHiZNiLTi
09-12-2006, 07:32 PM
cutout is 10.9"
Thanks for the info :D


No, it is not a good idea to paint the port that way before putting it together. Wood glue bonds wood to wood, not wood to paint. You don't really have a bond if you're gluing sealed/painted wood to end grain. Think about it like this. Stick your tongue to a piece of paper, and it'll pick it up. Stick your tongue to the same piece of paper but only laminated, and it won't pick it up.
I never thought of that, I recall seeing someone, possably Moe Lester say "I shoulda told you to paint the port first" and I guess this thought stuck in my head. This is why I offered to build a box for my friend 1st before I start building for myself. I think I'll still paint the port next time, but tape off where the wood will be glued together.

SHiZNiLTi
09-12-2006, 07:45 PM
gonna bottom out with about 500 w I think. I put mine in a 3.5 box just for laughes and could only put about 350w before it sounded like ***.
If this is correct, I have a small problem then because I was planning on using a Hifonics BXi 1606D (http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=16368) with gains set to give it around 850rms.

Should I just save some money and get the Hifonics BXi 606 (http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=16363) then since this box design will limit the wattage going to the sub?

You know how I doubled the front of the box, Can I double the outside of the (2) port pcs and the right wall? Does this make sense, what should I do PA?

PV Audio
09-12-2006, 07:45 PM
Thanks for the info :D


I never thought of that, I recall seeing someone, possably Moe Lester say "I shoulda told you to paint the port first" and I guess this thought stuck in my head. This is why I offered to build a box for my friend 1st before I start building for myself. I think I'll still paint the port next time, but tape off where the wood will be glued together.
:laugh: Almost sig worthy, gotta try yo' skills on someone else's **** before your own. I like it :)

And what moe was probably talking about was to do just that, but not to paint over the contact area :)

PV Audio
09-12-2006, 07:47 PM
If this is correct, I have a small problem then because I was planning on using a Hifonics BXi 1606D (http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=16368) with gains set to give it around 850rms.

Should I just save some money and get the Hifonics BXi 606 (http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=16363) then since this box design will limit the wattage going to the sub?

You know how I doubled the front of the box, Can I double the outside of the (2) port pcs and the right wall? Does this make sense, what should I do PA?
Bottom out city man.

What I'd do is run the amp at a lower ohm load (like 4 ohms) so you only give it ~450. Doesn't need as much power to get loud.

PV Audio
09-12-2006, 07:48 PM
Or just get a small amp.

SHiZNiLTi
09-12-2006, 08:04 PM
So I should go with the smaller Hifonics BXi 606 (http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=16363) then since this box design will limit the wattage going to the sub?

Even though it will not get as many watts how will the sound of it be. Since you say "bottom out city" to me that means the sub is going to have some big time excursion going on if its to the point of bottoming out.

We allready ordered the Dual 2ohm Type R so its either gonna be 1 ohm or 4 ohm. BXi 600 @ 600rms x 1 @ 1ohm with gain just over half should get the job done then huh?

Why is it that realmofexcursion has like 4 people with 12" type R's in 3.0 cubes @ 30hz using 1000watt rms amps, they all screw up like me or just have the gains way down?

*edit*
PA what can I do to my box to bring down the cubes?, with the front baffle its at 2.87 right now.

thatkidbob
09-12-2006, 08:12 PM
OR! you can get the 1606 and run it at a high impedance with the gains down and the the sub output setting on your HU around the middle.

Then test your outputs with a DMM and use that to set gains for a lower wattage.

If you ever decide to go bigger with your setup you'll have more than enough power :D

kotec123
09-12-2006, 08:13 PM
2.87 with or without speaker displacement???


if its without displacement....then u might be ok......cause i have mine in 2.5 cubes each

DaGh0st
09-12-2006, 08:16 PM
i would just get the 1606 and just run it at 4 ohms and in the future if you get a new set up you will already have the power.

PV Audio
09-12-2006, 08:29 PM
As I had suggested :)

The box won't limit the power going to the sub, what is going to happen is that the enclosure is so large that the air cannot damp the cone well enough for the power being given to it. When that happens, you can potentailly get overexcursion and risk mechanical failure.

SHiZNiLTi
09-12-2006, 10:12 PM
2.87 with or without speaker displacement???


if its without displacement....then u might be ok......cause i have mine in 2.5 cubes each

2.87 is without speaker displacement. I'm going to go over all internat dimensions and recalculate to make sure.

SHiZNiLTi
09-12-2006, 10:14 PM
PV and other's, to cut down on cubes can I double up the following (2) sections indicated in the below image? If I do this what will be some of the effects?

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/4214/box10dn5gt4.jpg


2.87 with or without speaker displacement???


if its without displacement....then u might be ok......cause i have mine in 2.5 cubes each

2.87 is without speaker displacement. I'm going to go over all internal dimensions and recalculate to make sure.

*edit* lol I just noticed the Multi-Quote button, sorry for all double posts.

DaGh0st
09-12-2006, 10:15 PM
i think it will have an affect on the port length bro if you decrease the internal volume....

Someone correct me if im wrong please.

tommyk90
09-12-2006, 10:22 PM
Three cubes is too big for that sub man.

x2

I would've done 2 cubes, MAYBE 2.5 at the absolute most.

xluben
09-12-2006, 10:30 PM
deja vu... i think i've seen those pics before :)

if you put in those two pieces i get about 2.75ft^3 @ 33Hz

the more volume to take away from the inside of the box the higher the tuning will be.

SHiZNiLTi
09-12-2006, 10:37 PM
i think it will have an affect on the port length bro if you decrease the internal volume....

Someone correct me if im wrong please.
Ya I think your correct on that. If I double up those two sections its gonna thow off the port length that was calculated for about 3 cubes at the time.

This is close to setup Im working on, does it sound like the sib is bottomoing out on first few seconds?
http://www.realmofexcursion.com/videos/Alpine/typer12.51.wmv

SHiZNiLTi
09-12-2006, 10:39 PM
deja vu... i think i've seen those pics before :)

if you put in those two pieces i get about 2.75ft^3 @ 33Hz

the more volume to take away from the inside of the box the higher the tuning will be.
Really? that would be great news if I put those two pcs in and get 2.75 @ 33hz i was worried it would lower the tuning more to 28 or something which is definatly not what I want.

can someone confirm this also, Im adding it up now.

Thanks!

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/4214/box10dn5gt4.jpg

PV Audio
09-12-2006, 10:39 PM
i think it will have an affect on the port length bro if you decrease the internal volume....

Someone correct me if im wrong please.
You aren't wrong per se, you just didn't word it correctly :)

Adding stuff to the inside decreases the Vb (net internal volume). Port tuning depends on three things: port area, port length, and internal volume. There's a relationship between the three. Given the same box for each experiment, here's what happens:

a. an increase in port area increases port tuning and requires either a longer port length (and conversely more Vb to compensate) or more internal volume

b. an increase in port length MAY and USUALLY does give you a lower tuning, but it lowers the Vb. If your box is already too small, increasing port length is futile because the more airspace u take away, the higher the tuning will get

c. an increase in internal volume will always lower port tuning no matter what the other two are doing

xluben
09-12-2006, 10:40 PM
if i were you i'd just buy the big amp, and try the box how you made it.

slowly turn up the gain while standing close to the sub, so you can hear any mechanical stressing.

just leave the gain at a level that isn't damaging to the woofer and see how you like it.

in a couple weeks if you don't like it, then start changing the box :)

PV Audio
09-12-2006, 10:40 PM
Really? that would be great news if I put those two pcs in and get 2.75 @ 33hz

can someone confirm this also, Im adding it up now.

Thanks!

That's still a little big, but better than nothing :)

The r's I've used have always been happy in 2.25....although you should probably listen to tommy as he's probably the resident type-r expert.

tommyk90
09-12-2006, 10:49 PM
That's still a little big, but better than nothing :)

The r's I've used have always been happy in 2.25....although you should probably listen to tommy as he's probably the resident type-r expert.

2.25 is a happy medium. :)

SHiZNiLTi
09-12-2006, 10:57 PM
if i were you i'd just buy the big amp, and try the box how you made it.

slowly turn up the gain while standing close to the sub, so you can hear any mechanical stressing.

just leave the gain at a level that isn't damaging to the woofer and see how you like it.

in a couple weeks if you don't like it, then start changing the box :)
That sounds like a great idea, but I'd hate to think of taking the top off once I seal it all up all nice. I did actually kinda want to be tuned at 33hz anyways.

Ok so the plan is...

Get the 1606D, but just run it at either a 4ohm load or a 1 ohm load with very low gain settings on the amp.

I will also add the (2) pcs in as shown in the above photo which should bring me down to 2.75 cubes @ 33hz.

I'm also going to make the cutout hole at 10.9", is this right Tommy?

Tommy, since I allready have this box made and the type R is on the way I'm gonna have to stick with it. The persons car that this is getting installed into has never had a system before and hasn't even heard decent bass. He should still be very happy with the output right?

I'm gonna be building another single 12" type R setup with the same amp in about 1 month, do you have a link for the Ultimate Box Design?

Thanks again for all your help guys :)

PV Audio
09-12-2006, 11:10 PM
I'm gonna be building another single 12" type R setup with the same amp in about 1 month, do you have a link for the Ultimate Box Design?

I'm afraid that there is no such thing as the ultimate box design. What's good to one person is not good to another.

tommyk90
09-12-2006, 11:14 PM
That sounds like a great idea, but I'd hate to think of taking the top off once I seal it all up all nice. I did actually kinda want to be tuned at 33hz anyways.

Ok so the plan is...

Get the 1606D, but just run it at either a 4ohm load or a 1 ohm load with very low gain settings on the amp.

I will also add the (2) pcs in as shown in the above photo which should bring me down to 2.75 cubes @ 33hz.

I'm also going to make the cutout hole at 10.9", is this right Tommy?

Tommy, since I allready have this box made and the type R is on the way I'm gonna have to stick with it. The persons car that this is getting installed into has never had a system before and hasn't even heard decent bass. He should still be very happy with the output right?

I'm gonna be building another single 12" type R setup with the same amp in about 1 month, do you have a link for the Ultimate Box Design?

Thanks again for all your help guys :)

Everything sounds good.

I mean, if things don't go as planned, then just build another box. :)

SHiZNiLTi
09-19-2006, 12:25 AM
I got the sub friday...
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/658/box1cc2.jpg

I took everyones advice and went ahead and doubled up the inner part of the air port...
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3590/box2my1.jpg

OMG does this the sub sound good in 2.75cubes at 33hz. I don't have the Hifonics 1606d yet so I took the finished product over to my buddies house and connected it to his JL 500/1 in the back of his 3 series.... the bass is very very low and clean, but I totally understand what you guys mean by "take it easy on the volume" and "that its gonna bottom out with more then 500 watts rms." Im begining to think that Im gonna hafta have the gains way way down on the 1606d. We were just playing some random crap on the radio actually listening to country music and the SQ sounded soo sweet. It actually was vibrating the window panes of his house 30 ft away. I'll make a video soon for you guys to check it out. Thanks again for your help.


I would been done faster, but this weekend I kinda drank too much...
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6564/alcoholsv8ou7.jpg

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/7336/bardk0jt3.jpg

AphexTwin
09-19-2006, 12:33 AM
nice bar!

SHiZNiLTi
09-19-2006, 12:51 AM
nice bar!
Thanks Bro, I made the counter myself and that rock fireplace I did by hand :cool:

jklfd
09-19-2006, 12:54 AM
wow very nice house.

Lil_KB
09-19-2006, 01:06 AM
nice box....my 12" Rs sound good at about 2.7 cubes a piece with about 1000W RMS going to each. I'm gonna try another enclosure with about 1.75 a piece and see how they do though.

SHiZNiLTi
09-19-2006, 01:13 AM
nice box....my 12" Rs sound good at about 2.7 cubes a piece with about 1000W RMS going to each. I'm gonna try another enclosure with about 1.75 a piece and see how they do though.
Sweet!!! We need to stay in touch so I know how they sound in the different box. This box I just made is actually for a friend, I'm making mine very soon and am undecided on how to build it, but from what I heard tonight from this box design I hafta say I'm very impressed with 2.75 @ 33.

Are you using a 1206d per sub?

coolahan
09-19-2006, 01:32 AM
i know it probably doesn't need it but hell.. add bracing to take up more volume if needed

SHiZNiLTi
09-19-2006, 12:19 PM
i know it probably doesn't need it but hell.. add bracing to take up more volume if needed
Hell ya, I'm glad I did htat to take up more internal volume. I not sure how this sub would handle 900-1000 watts rms. It seems to perfrom great off of a JL 500.1

Do you guys think that the Hifonics 1606d running 1100watts rms @ 2 ohm is gonna be a lil overkill since the JL 500/1 I tested the sub on last night seems to be pushing the sub to its full potential allready? Or is it just that the box is soo large the subwoofer excursion is much greater then if it was in a smaller box therefore it doesn't need that many watts as what some of you are running to there type R's?

I'm still planning on getting the 1606d, but just wanted a few more opinions on the subject.

If I plan on never upgrading subs how will this amp perform with the 12" type R thats running at 2ohms?

Kenwood KAC-9152D - 900watts rms @ 2ohm
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=14934

mikey060
09-19-2006, 03:25 PM
I've designed and made a box like that before :)

werd, i was thinking crx style...but after doing a box similar to this one(in a hatch) i realized it is very vehicle dependant. :)

mikey060
09-19-2006, 03:26 PM
i know it probably doesn't need it but hell.. add bracing to take up more volume if needed

or throw some bricks in there :laugh:

SHiZNiLTi
09-19-2006, 04:00 PM
or throw some bricks in there :laugh:
LOL @ Bricks idea, this box is allready 80 lbs without the sub in it!

PV Audio
09-19-2006, 04:50 PM
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3590/box2my1.jpg

Dude, wtf kinda glue is that?

baseballer1100
09-19-2006, 04:51 PM
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3590/box2my1.jpg

Dude, wtf kinda glue is that?

Caramel.

Bring97
09-19-2006, 05:00 PM
hmm looks like the size of my box for 2 of the type r's that i have. and yes in the same car.. i have about 1.4 per sub ported to 35hz with 900rms goin to em. let me tell ya the hatch rattles like a *****

SHiZNiLTi
09-19-2006, 05:47 PM
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3590/box2my1.jpg

Dude, wtf kinda glue is that?
LOL, My uncle builds custom homes here in Scottsdale, AZ and when visiting one of his job sites I told him I was building a subwoofer box. He let me have a giant tube of this subfloor adhesive, he started talking about some weird codes I've never heard of and how this glue surpasses and meets all specs from Engineered Wood Association blah blah blah.... All I know is that this stuff is very very strong because I accidetly got just a small dap of it on my left over wood and just that little bit of glue stuck two 12"x8" pcs of wood together as if it was nailed. I'll get the brand name of it tonight when I get home from work.

Has anyone built a box without using screws or nails and only using this type of glue?

SHiZNiLTi
09-19-2006, 05:53 PM
hmm looks like the size of my box for 2 of the type r's that i have. and yes in the same car.. i have about 1.4 per sub ported to 35hz with 900rms goin to em. let me tell ya the hatch rattles like a *****
Would you ever want to meet up so my buddy kyle the owner of the Scion can check out your ride and if you can tell us what you think of the single 12 type R in this box I just made?

xluben
09-19-2006, 06:05 PM
wood glue, once cured, should be stronger than the wood itself.

if you make straight cuts and clamp your pieces well (while the glue dries), you should not need screws.

CJL
09-19-2006, 06:09 PM
Caramel.

:laugh:

mazdakid
09-19-2006, 06:16 PM
ive used that subfloor stuff from jobsites before, not too bad. is it called like osi or something?

PV Audio
09-19-2006, 08:17 PM
LOL, My uncle builds custom homes here in Scottsdale, AZ and when visiting one of his job sites I told him I was building a subwoofer box. He let me have a giant tube of this subfloor adhesive, he started talking about some weird codes I've never heard of and how this glue surpasses and meets all specs from Engineered Wood Association blah blah blah.... All I know is that this stuff is very very strong because I accidetly got just a small dap of it on my left over wood and just that little bit of glue stuck two 12"x8" pcs of wood together as if it was nailed. I'll get the brand name of it tonight when I get home from work.

Has anyone built a box without using screws or nails and only using this type of glue?

Wood glue is still stronger ;) :)

Wood glue bonds are chemical, and are stronger than the wood being bonded.