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xluben
09-11-2006, 03:53 PM
i have a 99 honda accord I4 2.3L with a manual transmission.

everytime i fill up my gas tank (300-400 miles) i have to put about 1 quart of oil in!

i don't get enough leaking to puddle under my car, but last time my car was in the shop the mechanic said it could be leaking a bit around the headgasket. also, if i accelerate hard (5-6k+ rmps) i can see some black smoke out of the tailpipe, but none under normal driving (and i don't accelerate like that very often).

is this something i should be concerned with, or should i just keep adding oil?

is there anything i can do (cheaply) to try and help?

i don't think i have the money to get the headgasket changed at the moment. i have tried going from 5w-30 to 10w-30, but it didn't help. i will be going back to 5w-30 for the next oil change (winter).

thanks!

also, can anyone recommend me to any good honda tech sites?

90accordman
09-11-2006, 03:56 PM
id take care of it now rather then wait, its at the beginning stages now of blowing the head gasket, if it blows it can cost you a whole lot more

937DYTBOI
09-11-2006, 04:05 PM
yea mines burns oil also, i guess its known for that

xluben
09-11-2006, 04:05 PM
what kind of price should i be looking at to get that done?

is there anything (cheaper) that i could try first?

90accordman
09-11-2006, 04:32 PM
what kind of price should i be looking at to get that done?

is there anything (cheaper) that i could try first?

no theres nothing cheaper to try first, it is gonna be 500-1000 to get fixed the parts only like 40 bucks at most youll be paying for labor unless you know how to do it

xluben
09-11-2006, 04:37 PM
no theres nothing cheaper to try first, it is gonna be 500-1000 to get fixed the parts only like 40 bucks at most youll be paying for labor unless you know how to do it

that's what i thought. unfortunately i don't have an extra grand lying around and i don't know how to do it myself.

phantom240
09-11-2006, 05:03 PM
Black smoke isnt oil FYI. Black smoke is caused by an overly rich fuel/air mixture or incomplete combustion of the fuel. In either case, try to look in the motor bay for anyleaking outside the car. Does the exhaust smell any different? Usually when it BURNS oil its a blueish smoke and it smells really foul. I think the problem is not in the headgasket, but maybe the valve cover gasket or something similar.

IrTehL33T@DBeez
09-12-2006, 05:11 AM
Black smoke isnt oil FYI. Black smoke is caused by an overly rich fuel/air mixture or incomplete combustion of the fuel. In either case, try to look in the motor bay for anyleaking outside the car. Does the exhaust smell any different? Usually when it BURNS oil its a blueish smoke and it smells really foul. I think the problem is not in the headgasket, but maybe the valve cover gasket or something similar.

he's right about the black smoke. a blown head gasket, or beginning stages of a problematic head gasket would be more likely to cause consumption/burning of coolant or oil. burning oil will be blue smoke, whereas coolant will be white smoke and has a particular 'sweet' smell. i havent dont a head gasket on that motor before, but inline 4's are general easy, particularly the single cam varities. just the other day my friend and i did a head gasket on his eagle talon (4g63 turbo, which is an inline four dohc) and it took maybe 2 hours for the teardown, installation of arp hardware, new gasket, then reinstallation. add about a half hour onto that because we had a bit of a hassle with the timing belt. i dont know if you're a mechanically inclined person or have friends that are, but its not a very intense job and its something that a shop would charge a pretty hefty sum to complete. to get an idea of savings... my friends mls head gasket (multi-layer, high perf.) was under 100 bucks, a stock type gasket might run you 50 bucks, you can really save some cash doing it yourself

xluben
09-12-2006, 09:13 AM
i definitely wouldn't be able to do it myself. i have very little experience working with cars, but maybe i can find someone that'll do it for cheap, because there's no way i have to money to dish out up to a grand for a shop to do it.

phantom240
09-12-2006, 05:17 PM
I wouldnt say its the headgasket. If you cant smell smoke in the exhaust, its not BURNING oil. It may be leaking from elsewhere.

joebangaa
09-14-2006, 04:49 AM
Get over it... it's already 8 years old or so... Nissan's venerable VQ35DE is known to burn oil (including mine :( )

Prowler573
09-14-2006, 04:53 AM
i have a 99 honda accord I4 2.3L with a manual transmission.

everytime i fill up my gas tank (300-400 miles) i have to put about 1 quart of oil in!

i don't get enough leaking to puddle under my car, but last time my car was in the shop the mechanic said it could be leaking a bit around the headgasket. also, if i accelerate hard (5-6k+ rmps) i can see some black smoke out of the tailpipe, but none under normal driving (and i don't accelerate like that very often).

is this something i should be concerned with, or should i just keep adding oil?

is there anything i can do (cheaply) to try and help?

i don't think i have the money to get the headgasket changed at the moment. i have tried going from 5w-30 to 10w-30, but it didn't help. i will be going back to 5w-30 for the next oil change (winter).

thanks!

also, can anyone recommend me to any good honda tech sites?
I would suggest the first thing you need to do is find a different shop. If anyone calling themselves a mechanic by trade diagnosed an oil leak to likely be a leaky/weak head gasket then they need to find alternate employment ASAP. I'm mechanically challenged to say the least and even I know better than that.


he's right about the black smoke. a blown head gasket, or beginning stages of a problematic head gasket would be more likely to cause consumption/burning of coolant or oil. burning oil will be blue smoke, whereas coolant will be white smoke and has a particular 'sweet' smell. i havent dont a head gasket on that motor before, but inline 4's are general easy, particularly the single cam varities. just the other day my friend and i did a head gasket on his eagle talon (4g63 turbo, which is an inline four dohc) and it took maybe 2 hours for the teardown, installation of arp hardware, new gasket, then reinstallation. add about a half hour onto that because we had a bit of a hassle with the timing belt. i dont know if you're a mechanically inclined person or have friends that are, but its not a very intense job and its something that a shop would charge a pretty hefty sum to complete. to get an idea of savings... my friends mls head gasket (multi-layer, high perf.) was under 100 bucks, a stock type gasket might run you 50 bucks, you can really save some cash doing it yourselfI'm glad someone with a clue chimed in on this thread ;)

AJē06
09-14-2006, 04:59 AM
he's right about the black smoke. a blown head gasket, or beginning stages of a problematic head gasket would be more likely to cause consumption/burning of coolant or oil. burning oil will be blue smoke, whereas coolant will be white smoke and has a particular 'sweet' smell. i havent dont a head gasket on that motor before, but inline 4's are general easy, particularly the single cam varities. just the other day my friend and i did a head gasket on his eagle talon (4g63 turbo, which is an inline four dohc) and it took maybe 2 hours for the teardown, installation of arp hardware, new gasket, then reinstallation. add about a half hour onto that because we had a bit of a hassle with the timing belt. i dont know if you're a mechanically inclined person or have friends that are, but its not a very intense job and its something that a shop would charge a pretty hefty sum to complete. to get an idea of savings... my friends mls head gasket (multi-layer, high perf.) was under 100 bucks, a stock type gasket might run you 50 bucks, you can really save some cash doing it yourself

Nice... my 11 almost 12 yr old accord is still running strong. :D Except, I do ahve that "sweet" smell once in a while.... but i dont burn anything... I barely have any oil leaks.

phantom240
09-14-2006, 08:32 AM
My car ran great for a 17 year old car... except for the worn out timing chain. That killed it.

86yota
09-14-2006, 08:40 AM
www.honda-tech.com

GordonW
10-04-2006, 04:30 PM
Sounds like it could be any of, or any combination of, the following:

Bad crankcase ventilation (PCV) system... if it's stopped up, crankcase pressure will force oil past the seals. But, ONLY when driving... when the engine is idling, it won't have enough pressure to leak.

Bad valve-cover gaskets... IME, Honda valvecover gaskets are FTL after about 5-10 years. Expect to change it. Fortunately, it's usually a very easy job...

Bad oil pressure sending unit... there again, it'll leak MORE at speed (higher RPM== higher oil pressure). GET THIS FIXED IMMEDIATELY if someone finds this problem! If the sending unit blows out, it'll dump out ALL the oil IMMEDIATELY, and the engine will be FUBAR.

Loose/leaking oil filter... same symptoms as the oil pressure sending unit, but MUCH easier to fix (tighten/replace the oil filter).

The problem causing the black smoke COULD be contributing to the problem. If it's running rich, you CAN get raw gas in the oil, which can over-flow the crankcase and force the oil out of the engine. Then, as the gasoline evaporates, the oil level wil be low. I'd get that fixed. Probably something like a temperature sensor or throttle position sensor, or maybe as simple as a severely clogged air filter...

Regards,
Gordon.

GordonW
10-04-2006, 04:32 PM
Nice... my 11 almost 12 yr old accord is still running strong. :D Except, I do ahve that "sweet" smell once in a while.... but i dont burn anything... I barely have any oil leaks.

Check for seepage from the radiator, where the plastic tanks clamp onto the aluminum core. Had the same problem on many Japanese cars. Sometimes you can clamp the "fingers" holding the tank on tighter (using something like vise-grips)... but even if the radiator needs to be replaced, it's usually not expensive (the on for my '94 Mazda Protege was only like $125, from Autozone or wherever)...

Regards,
Gordon.

Speedyd718
10-06-2006, 09:47 PM
hey try some of this stuff. www.auto-rx.com suppose to work really well. i just did an application in my wagon this morning (as maintenance). i've read good things about it from a gm b-body forum.

xluben
11-02-2006, 02:02 AM
Sounds like it could be any of, or any combination of, the following:

Bad crankcase ventilation (PCV) system... if it's stopped up, crankcase pressure will force oil past the seals. But, ONLY when driving... when the engine is idling, it won't have enough pressure to leak.

Bad valve-cover gaskets... IME, Honda valvecover gaskets are FTL after about 5-10 years. Expect to change it. Fortunately, it's usually a very easy job...

Bad oil pressure sending unit... there again, it'll leak MORE at speed (higher RPM== higher oil pressure). GET THIS FIXED IMMEDIATELY if someone finds this problem! If the sending unit blows out, it'll dump out ALL the oil IMMEDIATELY, and the engine will be FUBAR.

Loose/leaking oil filter... same symptoms as the oil pressure sending unit, but MUCH easier to fix (tighten/replace the oil filter).

The problem causing the black smoke COULD be contributing to the problem. If it's running rich, you CAN get raw gas in the oil, which can over-flow the crankcase and force the oil out of the engine. Then, as the gasoline evaporates, the oil level wil be low. I'd get that fixed. Probably something like a temperature sensor or throttle position sensor, or maybe as simple as a severely clogged air filter...

Regards,
Gordon.

thanks a ton! i guess i need to have my car checked out by a mechanic?


hey try some of this stuff. www.auto-rx.com suppose to work really well. i just did an application in my wagon this morning (as maintenance). i've read good things about it from a gm b-body forum.

any other opinions on this? what about seafoam?

i'd love to try something like this before i go pay a mechanic $100 to tell me he has to do $500 worth of work :(

xluben
11-04-2006, 11:02 PM
well, i put a half a can of seafoam in my oil and half in my gas tank.

no smoke or anything like some of the posts i've seen online.

i'm only 500 miles into my last oil change. is it ok to wait until 3k before i change it again?

the guys at o'reilly's said i didn't have to change the oil right after, and so did a random guy standing in the checkout line. they all swore that it worked great :)

DeViOuSoNe
11-04-2006, 11:05 PM
thats weird I have a 99 accord 4 door with 256k and going and it never had anything like that happen luckily! And im not the easiest on it...lol

xluben
11-04-2006, 11:30 PM
i got it used about 6 months ago and it's been doing it the entire time. i have no idea what kind of hell the other owners put it through.

there wasn't any maintenance record but the carfax report is clean.

i really hope this helps in some way. i don't really have the money to get it fixed properly at the moment. maybe next summer i'll be able to get it taken care of.

Silver
11-05-2006, 11:47 AM
i have a 99 honda accord I4 2.3L with a manual transmission.

everytime i fill up my gas tank (300-400 miles) i have to put about 1 quart of oil in!

i don't get enough leaking to puddle under my car, but last time my car was in the shop the mechanic said it could be leaking a bit around the headgasket. also, if i accelerate hard (5-6k+ rmps) i can see some black smoke out of the tailpipe, but none under normal driving (and i don't accelerate like that very often).

is this something i should be concerned with, or should i just keep adding oil?

is there anything i can do (cheaply) to try and help?

i don't think i have the money to get the headgasket changed at the moment. i have tried going from 5w-30 to 10w-30, but it didn't help. i will be going back to 5w-30 for the next oil change (winter).

thanks!

also, can anyone recommend me to any good honda tech sites?

Before you do anything, take it to a dealership and ask if you can have a slack tube ran on it.

You burning oil could possibly be a simple PCV mishap. I've seen cars burn oil with a bad PCV valve. Or with rotted hoses. Usually the PCV valve is located on top of the valve cover. Pop it off and give it a shake or I just blow air. You should hear it clicking, that is simply the valve.

01sugar2
11-13-2006, 01:12 AM
Finally, a thread I can possibly help with. :) FIRST of all, never take any vehicle to a mechanic; find a certified automotive technician! There is a diff. In short, VERY little is purely mechanical these days. The mentiond vehicle is what we call an On Board Diagnostics version 2 (OBD2) vehicle, and I can promise you the EPA placed a ton of electronics into this accord.

As for Hondas, I've dealt with nothing but them from the 88 model accords and preludes on up to around the 2001 models. If there's one thing I can promise you, it's that after many many miles, valve guide seals will start to leak. If you have a previously missabused engine, excessive piston ring wear can lead to some premature oil loss as well. As for the smoke concern, one of the previous posters were correct about the colors of smoke; blue is typically your oil burning. White would be antifreeze and the black is usually caused from burning very rich (too much gas). It sounds to me, from a professional stand point, that you have a few possible concerns.

As for the oil leak, if it's not externally leaking then that's what we call oil consumption. There aren't too many places oil can go except through the engine or on the ground (obviously), and there are some FAR CHEAPER alternatives than trying to get silly and swap a head gasket. Anytime I get an oil loss/consumption concern, I will install a bottle of dye (a few ounces) in the oil (simply poor it in rather), and run the vehicle for a few min. In the 60's black lights became very popular, and just like back then, black lights can still turn dye neat colors. If you get in a dark enough area and take a black light to your car's engine, and assuming you have an external leak, you'll locate it pretty quickly with a florecent looking purple or green liquid (dyed engine oil, any viscosity).

Positive Crankcase Ventalation valves (PCV Valves) are probably never ever changed out enough on vehicles; I recomend them every 15k miles. This is a VERY common method of entry for oil into the engine!! If you've ever pulled an air cleaner/filter from the throttle body and seen all the black junk on the throttle plate, then you can now be assured that you're looking at oil. Oil does not combust in the engine, and causes problems. When those PCV Valves stick open, the rushing air past their outlet (designed only to exhale bad fumes from the crank case into the engine, not oil), then the extra rushing air past this valve will **** oil or anything else through it and into the engine itself. If it sticks closed, the inlet for the frest air (pre throttle body) into the valve cover/crank case provides the suction to pull the oil out and inject it into the engine. My recomendation is to replace the sub $5 PCV Valve and to take a can of B12 chemtool and hose down the throttle body and to open it and hose it down inside as well. Most likely the oil is there regardless of this being the concern or not with the oil consumption. $20 or less and about 10 to 15 min. in labor can save a lot of heart aches and pains at a repair facility.

Sea Foam is something I use all the time in problematic vehicles because it'll clean out all that oil from inside the engine itself and not to mention decarbonize the combustion chamgers and valves some. It's about $5 at any Oreilly Auto Parts store or Autozone; white can full of liquid. I do not recomend putting it in your oil though. This may clean out the engine some, but if you have any grooves in the cyl. walls where the pistons travel, then you risk opening those up and loosing compression (not something you want to risk with an unknown record of the vehicles maintenace records from the past). Plus, any modifiers to the oil will cause the viscosity properties to break up and change; not a common practice I recomend. If you use this product, use it through the large vacuume hose going to the brake booster with the engine runing and SLOWLY poor it in. If not done slowly, you can vapor lock the engine! If you actually do this, please be in a well ventalated area as you'll cause smoke like you never thought possible. hehe it'll be there for a while till everything is cleaned out (I do this about every 30k miles or so).

Now to the main point, and the end of my post. If you're burning black smoke, it's most likely a running rich concern, not oil. Rich = too much gas, not enough air. Your oxygen sensors pick up on the 4 gasses out of the combustion chamer and will either recomend more fuel or less fuel to keep from having the concern that you're experiancing. MOST of the time, if you're experiancing black smoke (even in the upper RPM'S only), you should have a check engine light either on, or sitting there with a pending trouble code in memory waiting to trigger the light itself to come on. If you don't see this amber (yellow) light on, then do a bulb check. Simply turn the key on (engine off) and make sure that the Check Engine Light illuminates. Just because the light doesn't come on doesn't mean there isn't a trouble code in there denoting a fault.

The EPA is very strict about what can and can not set a check engine light off. There must be 2000 trouble codes out there for all OBD2 vehicles (mandatory on 1996 to current models), and those code numbers help people like me find the cause of problems like this. I know I'm not there to look at your car, but I think you have 2 concerns rather than one. Try changing spark plugs as they control the burn of your spent fuel. Anything ignition related is cheaper than changing a head gasket!! Cans of cleaner are great like the 2 above (Seafoam is great in the gas tank BTW), and the few min. of labor inserting those is also cheaper than a head gasket. The #1 cause to any loss of air, too much fuel (running rich) concern would be a restricted air filter; check it! That item, as you may have guessed, is also cheaper than replacing a stupid expensive head gasket. :) Retiming the engine when you pull a head (your's is a V6 and has 2 heads) is cause for great skill and shouldn't be attempted by just anyone. In closing, don't be afraid to try the more simple items rather than to automatically assume it's something stupid crazy expensive. If you need any further assistance, or have any Q's and I'm not on this site (and I'm not all that often), feel free to IM me on AIM at sugar2mtb (screen name); I'll be more than glad to help. Best of luck!

Ps. SORRY FOR THE LONG POST!!!

Dustin

93 saturn sl2
11-14-2006, 09:30 PM
Not too sure if its been mentioned or not, but try seafoam.

Silver
11-14-2006, 10:12 PM
Finally, a thread I can possibly help with. :) FIRST of all, never take any vehicle to a mechanic; find a certified automotive technician! There is a diff. In short, VERY little is purely mechanical these days. The mentiond vehicle is what we call an On Board Diagnostics version 2 (OBD2) vehicle, and I can promise you the EPA placed a ton of electronics into this accord.

As for Hondas, I've dealt with nothing but them from the 88 model accords and preludes on up to around the 2001 models. If there's one thing I can promise you, it's that after many many miles, valve guide seals will start to leak. If you have a previously missabused engine, excessive piston ring wear can lead to some premature oil loss as well. As for the smoke concern, one of the previous posters were correct about the colors of smoke; blue is typically your oil burning. White would be antifreeze and the black is usually caused from burning very rich (too much gas). It sounds to me, from a professional stand point, that you have a few possible concerns.

As for the oil leak, if it's not externally leaking then that's what we call oil consumption. There aren't too many places oil can go except through the engine or on the ground (obviously), and there are some FAR CHEAPER alternatives than trying to get silly and swap a head gasket. Anytime I get an oil loss/consumption concern, I will install a bottle of dye (a few ounces) in the oil (simply poor it in rather), and run the vehicle for a few min. In the 60's black lights became very popular, and just like back then, black lights can still turn dye neat colors. If you get in a dark enough area and take a black light to your car's engine, and assuming you have an external leak, you'll locate it pretty quickly with a florecent looking purple or green liquid (dyed engine oil, any viscosity).

Positive Crankcase Ventalation valves (PCV Valves) are probably never ever changed out enough on vehicles; I recomend them every 15k miles. This is a VERY common method of entry for oil into the engine!! If you've ever pulled an air cleaner/filter from the throttle body and seen all the black junk on the throttle plate, then you can now be assured that you're looking at oil. Oil does not combust in the engine, and causes problems. When those PCV Valves stick open, the rushing air past their outlet (designed only to exhale bad fumes from the crank case into the engine, not oil), then the extra rushing air past this valve will **** oil or anything else through it and into the engine itself. If it sticks closed, the inlet for the frest air (pre throttle body) into the valve cover/crank case provides the suction to pull the oil out and inject it into the engine. My recomendation is to replace the sub $5 PCV Valve and to take a can of B12 chemtool and hose down the throttle body and to open it and hose it down inside as well. Most likely the oil is there regardless of this being the concern or not with the oil consumption. $20 or less and about 10 to 15 min. in labor can save a lot of heart aches and pains at a repair facility.

Sea Foam is something I use all the time in problematic vehicles because it'll clean out all that oil from inside the engine itself and not to mention decarbonize the combustion chamgers and valves some. It's about $5 at any Oreilly Auto Parts store or Autozone; white can full of liquid. I do not recomend putting it in your oil though. This may clean out the engine some, but if you have any grooves in the cyl. walls where the pistons travel, then you risk opening those up and loosing compression (not something you want to risk with an unknown record of the vehicles maintenace records from the past). Plus, any modifiers to the oil will cause the viscosity properties to break up and change; not a common practice I recomend. If you use this product, use it through the large vacuume hose going to the brake booster with the engine runing and SLOWLY poor it in. If not done slowly, you can vapor lock the engine! If you actually do this, please be in a well ventalated area as you'll cause smoke like you never thought possible. hehe it'll be there for a while till everything is cleaned out (I do this about every 30k miles or so).

Now to the main point, and the end of my post. If you're burning black smoke, it's most likely a running rich concern, not oil. Rich = too much gas, not enough air. Your oxygen sensors pick up on the 4 gasses out of the combustion chamer and will either recomend more fuel or less fuel to keep from having the concern that you're experiancing. MOST of the time, if you're experiancing black smoke (even in the upper RPM'S only), you should have a check engine light either on, or sitting there with a pending trouble code in memory waiting to trigger the light itself to come on. If you don't see this amber (yellow) light on, then do a bulb check. Simply turn the key on (engine off) and make sure that the Check Engine Light illuminates. Just because the light doesn't come on doesn't mean there isn't a trouble code in there denoting a fault.

The EPA is very strict about what can and can not set a check engine light off. There must be 2000 trouble codes out there for all OBD2 vehicles (mandatory on 1996 to current models), and those code numbers help people like me find the cause of problems like this. I know I'm not there to look at your car, but I think you have 2 concerns rather than one. Try changing spark plugs as they control the burn of your spent fuel. Anything ignition related is cheaper than changing a head gasket!! Cans of cleaner are great like the 2 above (Seafoam is great in the gas tank BTW), and the few min. of labor inserting those is also cheaper than a head gasket. The #1 cause to any loss of air, too much fuel (running rich) concern would be a restricted air filter; check it! That item, as you may have guessed, is also cheaper than replacing a stupid expensive head gasket. :) Retiming the engine when you pull a head (your's is a V6 and has 2 heads) is cause for great skill and shouldn't be attempted by just anyone. In closing, don't be afraid to try the more simple items rather than to automatically assume it's something stupid crazy expensive. If you need any further assistance, or have any Q's and I'm not on this site (and I'm not all that often), feel free to IM me on AIM at sugar2mtb (screen name); I'll be more than glad to help. Best of luck!

Ps. SORRY FOR THE LONG POST!!!

Dustin


You must be a Technician.

If so, thats where I'm headin.

01sugar2
11-15-2006, 01:06 AM
Yep, and I had to take 2 ASE Certification exams tonight; Automatic and Manual Transmissions. If I pass these two, then I'll be Master ASE Certified. :) I love what I do and encourage everyone in this field to get as much out of it as you can. One thing is FOR SURE, the demand for transporation needs will never go away; the demand for technicians happens to be really high right now. Best of luck to ya! It's one of the few fields where an employer will send you to schools at their expense.

Dustin

xluben
11-16-2006, 07:04 PM
WOW!

thanks for the great post.

i forgot about this thread.

i (seemingly unfortunately) put seafoam into my oil. didn't seem to change anything, though.

any tutorials (w/pics if possible) on how to do the PCV valve switchout?

or should i get one of those books they have at o'rielly's?

also, i think you're onto something with the 'running rich' theory.

my check engine light will come on when i open up the throttle (usually trying to accelerate in 5th gear, when i should downshift).

the code comes up as a cylinder misfiring, so i got my plugs replaced. still happened.

the mechanic couldn't get the condition to replicate with him driving (or with me driving while he was with), so he said he couldn't do anything about it.

he suggested using more gear (higher rpm's) and less throttle. did that for about a month and it killed my gas mileage (from upper 20's to lower 20's), so i'm switching back to granny-driving :)

i will also make sure to change the air filter, i have no idea when it was last done :crap: (not in the last 6 months at least.)

as for re-timing, i actually have a 4cyl, but it didn't sound like that was a good option anyways.

so for now:

pcv valve replacement
air filter replacement

other suggestions.........

where would i get replacement pcv valves? how many?
what do you suggest about the misfiring?

thanks again for all the help! these both seem like good (cheap) options for me to try first (hopefully i can figure out what a pcv valve is and how to change it).

01sugar2
11-16-2006, 09:17 PM
I'll look up a link in a few, copy an image to my site and hyper link you to for the placement of the PCV. If it's anthing like the ol' Preludes, they are right on top of the engine's valve cover. Most of the newer accords are V6's, so as for yours being a 4, my apology. :-P Just give me a few min. and I'll look that up for ya and post it back here.

Dustin

phantom240
11-16-2006, 09:42 PM
WOW!

thanks for the great post.

i forgot about this thread.

i (seemingly unfortunately) put seafoam into my oil. didn't seem to change anything, though.

any tutorials (w/pics if possible) on how to do the PCV valve switchout?

or should i get one of those books they have at o'rielly's?

also, i think you're onto something with the 'running rich' theory.

my check engine light will come on when i open up the throttle (usually trying to accelerate in 5th gear, when i should downshift).

the code comes up as a cylinder misfiring, so i got my plugs replaced. still happened.

the mechanic couldn't get the condition to replicate with him driving (or with me driving while he was with), so he said he couldn't do anything about it.

he suggested using more gear (higher rpm's) and less throttle. did that for about a month and it killed my gas mileage (from upper 20's to lower 20's), so i'm switching back to granny-driving :)

i will also make sure to change the air filter, i have no idea when it was last done :crap: (not in the last 6 months at least.)

as for re-timing, i actually have a 4cyl, but it didn't sound like that was a good option anyways.

so for now:

pcv valve replacement
air filter replacement

other suggestions.........

where would i get replacement pcv valves? how many?
what do you suggest about the misfiring?

thanks again for all the help! these both seem like good (cheap) options for me to try first (hopefully i can figure out what a pcv valve is and how to change it).

Sounds to me like you are runnning a bit rich, which would cause you to misfire under a load. As far as the PCV valve, the auto parts store coul dpoint you in the right direction, and picking up a repair manual is critical for proper maintenance on any car. BTW, running rich will reduce your mileage indefinately.


I love cars. I hope to go to nashville auto diesel, or UTI.

xluben
11-16-2006, 10:49 PM
I'll look up a link in a few, copy an image to my site and hyper link you to for the placement of the PCV. If it's anthing like the ol' Preludes, they are right on top of the engine's valve cover. Most of the newer accords are V6's, so as for yours being a 4, my apology. :-P Just give me a few min. and I'll look that up for ya and post it back here.

Dustin

cool, thanks!

link?


Sounds to me like you are runnning a bit rich, which would cause you to misfire under a load. As far as the PCV valve, the auto parts store coul dpoint you in the right direction, and picking up a repair manual is critical for proper maintenance on any car. BTW, running rich will reduce your mileage indefinately.

any suggestions on running rich?

i was meaning to pick up a repair manual......

don't have really any experience with cars, though :(

i am an ME major, so i hope i can figure it out :rolleyes:

jjski78
11-16-2006, 11:58 PM
Pick up a repair manual. Go to the Honda dealership, get a Distributor Cap, Ignition Rotor, Spark Plugs, Wires, PCV Valve, Air Filter, And O2 Sensors. Before I started working on jets, I was a Honda Tech. That's why I say go to the dealer for the parts. Maybe not the PCV or Air Filter, but everything else. Hondas have a nasty tendency to eat up and s**t out aftermarket ignition parts. I had the same misfire code on one of my old cars, and surprisingly, it was the O2 sensor causing it. All of those things are stupid easy to change, and hella cheaper than bringing it to a dealer to have it serviced. If you do find an external leak, it's most likely going to be the valve cover gasket, again, stupid easy, and about $20 for a new one at your local Honda dealer. The reason a lot of people never have a problem with them is because most models require a valve adjustment between 15-30k so every time that is done, a new valve cover gasket is installed. If you do all of this, you should be good to go. Oh, also, after you do the work, disconnect your battery for a good 20 minutes to clear the fault from your ECU.

And as stated before, a good throttle body cleaning won't hurt either. And pour a bottle of good quality ( I like Valvoline) fuel injector cleaner in the tank. Get the one meant for every 12000 miles, it's a little more potent. And do an oil change. Again, go to the dealer, get a Honda filter and drain plug seal. Get yourself good oil, Mobil 1 comes to mind, and a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil. Drain your oil, pour in the Marvel, and top it off with the Mobil 1. Then change it in no more than 3k miles. This should fix any of the problems you have with oil consumption and running rich. Hope it helps!!

xluben
11-17-2006, 12:18 AM
Pick up a repair manual. Go to the Honda dealership, get a Distributor Cap, Ignition Rotor, Spark Plugs, Wires, PCV Valve, Air Filter, And O2 Sensors. Before I started working on jets, I was a Honda Tech. That's why I say go to the dealer for the parts. Maybe not the PCV or Air Filter, but everything else. Hondas have a nasty tendency to eat up and s**t out aftermarket ignition parts. I had the same misfire code on one of my old cars, and surprisingly, it was the O2 sensor causing it. All of those things are stupid easy to change, and hella cheaper than bringing it to a dealer to have it serviced. If you do find an external leak, it's most likely going to be the valve cover gasket, again, stupid easy, and about $20 for a new one at your local Honda dealer. The reason a lot of people never have a problem with them is because most models require a valve adjustment between 15-30k so every time that is done, a new valve cover gasket is installed. If you do all of this, you should be good to go. Oh, also, after you do the work, disconnect your battery for a good 20 minutes to clear the fault from your ECU.

And as stated before, a good throttle body cleaning won't hurt either. And pour a bottle of good quality ( I like Valvoline) fuel injector cleaner in the tank. Get the one meant for every 12000 miles, it's a little more potent. And do an oil change. Again, go to the dealer, get a Honda filter and drain plug seal. Get yourself good oil, Mobil 1 comes to mind, and a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil. Drain your oil, pour in the Marvel, and top it off with the Mobil 1. Then change it in no more than 3k miles. This should fix any of the problems you have with oil consumption and running rich. Hope it helps!!

thanks i'll look into all those parts.

i'm going to start with the pcv and air filter this weekend (hopefully). i'll probably also get a bottle of fuel injector cleaner.

how exactly do i clean the throttle body?

i have tried a bottle of marvel mystery oil and it didn't really do anything noticeable.

also, i just pull a fuse to reset the check engine light because (i think) it's always the same thing.

i can tell when it's going to pop on when i'm trying to accelerate and it feels bogged down.

xluben
11-17-2006, 12:33 AM
throttle body cleaning:

http://www.98exl.com/tsb/CG/01-004%20-%20Throttle%20Body%20Cleaning.pdf

is there an easier way?

i think it was mentioned i could spray some b12 chemtool in the pcv valve?

i always used to experience the symptom described in that pdf. the pedal would stick the first time i'd try to push on it.

hasn't been happening lately though :confused:

jjski78
11-17-2006, 12:34 AM
thanks i'll look into all those parts.

i'm going to start with the pcv and air filter this weekend (hopefully). i'll probably also get a bottle of fuel injector cleaner.

how exactly do i clean the throttle body?

i have tried a bottle of marvel mystery oil and it didn't really do anything noticeable.

also, i just pull a fuse to reset the check engine light because (i think) it's always the same thing.

i can tell when it's going to pop on when i'm trying to accelerate and it feels bogged down.

You need to take the throttle body off to get it good and clean. Just spray it down with some Chemtool and wipe it clean with a rag. Make sure you get it really clean, and dry it thoroughly before reinstalling.

Marvel Mystery Oil is a godsend for high mileage cars. Did you use a full quart in new oil?? If not, try it again with a high quality oil. It re-hydrates seals, making them basically expand and seal better. Then if you want to go with a slightly cheaper oil, you can get the Valvoline Max-Life or Castrol High Mileage. These oils basically have the same type of additives that Marvel is, just, obviously, in smaller amounts. Trust me, this will help, a lot.

Disconnect your battery cables to reset the ECU. Of course, this isn't going to do anything if you haven't fixed the problem. Go to Autozone and have them run a code scan on your car, it's free. Then tell us what the code is. But, I'm pretty sure you have a bad O2 sensor.

Once you have all of this done, and the car is running right, I can recommend a service interval that will definitely help your car last for years, and be pretty easy on the wallet. If you know what the car is going to need, then you can better plan for it financially. The problem right now is the car was used, so you're basically playing catch-up on all the maintenance your car was supposed to have, but didn't get.

jjski78
11-17-2006, 12:38 AM
throttle body cleaning:

http://www.98exl.com/tsb/CG/01-004%20-%20Throttle%20Body%20Cleaning.pdf

is there an easier way?

i think it was mentioned i could spray some b12 chemtool in the pcv valve?

i always used to experience the symptom described in that pdf. the pedal would stick the first time i'd try to push on it.

hasn't been happening lately though :confused:

Don't spray chemtool in the PCV. Just replace it. For $5 it's just cheap insurance. Plus, you don't really want that stuff getting into your engine. It destroys the oil film that your engine needs.

xluben
11-17-2006, 12:47 AM
You need to take the throttle body off to get it good and clean. Just spray it down with some Chemtool and wipe it clean with a rag. Make sure you get it really clean, and dry it thoroughly before reinstalling.

Marvel Mystery Oil is a godsend for high mileage cars. Did you use a full quart in new oil?? If not, try it again with a high quality oil. It re-hydrates seals, making them basically expand and seal better. Then if you want to go with a slightly cheaper oil, you can get the Valvoline Max-Life or Castrol High Mileage. These oils basically have the same type of additives that Marvel is, just, obviously, in smaller amounts. Trust me, this will help, a lot.

Disconnect your battery cables to reset the ECU. Of course, this isn't going to do anything if you haven't fixed the problem. Go to Autozone and have them run a code scan on your car, it's free. Then tell us what the code is. But, I'm pretty sure you have a bad O2 sensor.

Once you have all of this done, and the car is running right, I can recommend a service interval that will definitely help your car last for years, and be pretty easy on the wallet. If you know what the car is going to need, then you can better plan for it financially. The problem right now is the car was used, so you're basically playing catch-up on all the maintenance your car was supposed to have, but didn't get.

not sure if i want to take my whole throttle body off :crap:

i'll try another bottle of marvel mystery oil with my next oil change.

when i had my ecu checked it was a cylinder misfire (not sure the code)


Don't spray chemtool in the PCV. Just replace it. For $5 it's just cheap insurance. Plus, you don't really want that stuff getting into your engine. It destroys the oil film that your engine needs.

yeah, i would replace the PCV, but the other poster mentioned i could spray chem tool somewhere to help clean the TB.

phantom240
11-17-2006, 12:48 AM
Get some seafoam, pour it in a squirt bottle... have at the TB. enjoy. Just dont use anything to scrape it!!! a toothbrush is recommended for tough ****. As far as running rich, yeah ignition and o2 sensor are most liekly the culprit.. though i wouldnt recommend going to a dealer for some of that stuff. Honda overcharges for their stuff, and a simple tuneup ends up costing over 200 bucks. Wires: NGK are very high quality, and so are their plugs. Caps and rotors are pretty much the same, though stay away from autozone and pepboys, they carry crap parts (/experience). As far as plugs and wires NEVER and i want to reiterate NEVER buy BOSCH. Bosch is second rate... their wires **** and have a habit of not staying on, their plugs (especially platinums) have horrible blowby (which is bad for compression and power), and the rest of their stuff is overrated. Get a K&N filter. Slight performance gain, slightly better mileage, washable, win-win situation.


BTW PCV and TB arent the same.

jjski78
11-17-2006, 01:07 AM
Get some seafoam, pour it in a squirt bottle... have at the TB. enjoy. Just dont use anything to scrape it!!! a toothbrush is recommended for tough ****. As far as running rich, yeah ignition and o2 sensor are most liekly the culprit.. though i wouldnt recommend going to a dealer for some of that stuff. Honda overcharges for their stuff, and a simple tuneup ends up costing over 200 bucks. Wires: NGK are very high quality, and so are their plugs. Caps and rotors are pretty much the same, though stay away from autozone and pepboys, they carry crap parts (/experience). As far as plugs and wires NEVER and i want to reiterate NEVER buy BOSCH. Bosch is second rate... their wires **** and have a habit of not staying on, their plugs (especially platinums) have horrible blowby (which is bad for compression and power), and the rest of their stuff is overrated. Get a K&N filter. Slight performance gain, slightly better mileage, washable, win-win situation.


BTW PCV and TB arent the same.

All dealerships inflate parts prices. But, like I said before, in my experience, Hondas tend to eat up aftermarket ignition parts. And the parts really aren't all that expensive. Now, I did a 3 second search online, and for everything I said to change I have a total cost of $347.63. That was from www.hondaautomotiveparts.com That was going based on my gut feeling that your O2 sensor is the culprit for and I priced out both front and rear. For genuine Honda parts this is actually a hell of a deal. BUT... don't take my word for it on the O2 sensor, get the scan run at autozone and let us know what code it is. And by all means, DO NOT buy a Bosch O2 sensor!! Get the OEM one. I have had just as much bad luck with Bosch O2 sensors as the guy above me has had with their spark plugs.

xluben
11-17-2006, 01:19 AM
dang, $350

i'm gonna try the $5 PCV valve and air filter when i change my oil first :)

thing about the ECU light is that it doesn't go on that often.

maybe every couple weeks.

i might be able to make it go on, but i'm not sure i like that idea :crap:

found this:

http://www.c-speedracing.com/faq/05.php

it was definitely one of the misfire codes (71-74 in the list). don't know if that helps at all.

jjski78
11-17-2006, 01:38 AM
dang, $350

i'm gonna try the $5 PCV valve and air filter when i change my oil first :)

thing about the ECU light is that it doesn't go on that often.

maybe every couple weeks.

i might be able to make it go on, but i'm not sure i like that idea :crap:

found this:

http://www.c-speedracing.com/faq/05.php

it was definitely one of the misfire codes (71-74 in the list). don't know if that helps at all.

For all of that, $350 is not too much money. Also, the PCV valve and oil change isn't gonna do squat about your misfire code. Again, I'm going off my gut here, but it sounds like you really do need everything that I listed. Look at it this way, if you do all the work now, your car won't die on you when the temps get down around -30 this winter. I know $350 is a good chunk of coin, but, I would rather spend the money, get everything done at once, and have peace of mind that the car is gonna be ok. And all of the stuff I listed is really easy to change yourself. If you can turn a wrench, you can do a tune-up on a Honda I4. If you took it to a shop to get the work done, they would probably add a good 8 hours of labor on top of that, at around $70 an hour! That is expensive!

On a side note, with the mileage your car has, you should also try to find out when the timing belt was last changed. They should be done every 90k. When I worked as a Honda Tech, we would do a "Timing Belt Service". This was a VERY expensive service, but like I said before, if you know what to expect for your service costs, you can plan your budget accordingly. That service consisted of: Change timing belt, balance shaft belt, water pump, all accessory drive belts(alternator, A/C, power steering), upper and lower radiator hoses, thermostat, adjust valve clearances, and install a new valve cover gasket (duh!). This is the kind of maintenance that NEEDS to be done to insure long life of your car. And if you don't believe this kind of preventative maintenance is worth doing, I had 2 customers, a nice older married couple. They both had accords, an '85 and an '86 LXi. Both cars had over 500k on the odometers when I left for the Air Force in 2000. Both cars had original engines and trannys that were never rebuilt. Those people followed the Honda recommended service intervals to the letter, and had all the work done at my shop with all OEM parts. They never needed anything more than standard maintenance. Believe me, I looked through the whole record. Their service records were bigger than a phone book!! I'm sure you can do it cheaper with aftermarket parts, but that was one of many examples I have seen where the genuine Honda service virtually guaranteed a trouble-free car for many hundreds of thousands of miles.

jjski78
11-17-2006, 01:40 AM
Oh, and here's a link so you can see the recommended maintenance intervals:

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/packs.htm

xluben
11-17-2006, 01:48 AM
thanks for all the suggestions.

i'm a full time student and only work 12hr/wk. with all the bills i have to pay that leaves very little extra :(

if i work full time over winter break would be the only time i might have extra cash.

i know about honda's and reliability. my dad had an early 80's civic hatch with normal maintainance (no major problems) that was closing in on 300k, until he hit a deer and totaled it :crap:

xluben
11-17-2006, 02:24 PM
got a PCV valve for $1.29 and put it in.

also put in some fuel injector cleaner.

i might change my oil and air filter this weekend.

it's only been 1,000 miles since the last oil change, but i put in seafoam about 500 miles ago.

xluben
11-17-2006, 04:26 PM
got an air filter and put it in.

ran it hard a couple times and no black smoke!

i did see some white smoke the first time i got the rpm's up, but not nearly as much as before, and not black.

after that it was all good. hopefully my gas mileage goes back up.

i'll look into the other items/maintenance schedule as i go.

thanks for all the help!

i'll keep you updated if i have other problems :)

01sugar2
11-18-2006, 01:11 AM
my apology for not getting back with you soon enough, and for not being there when you IM'd me last night. With aprox. 14 parts air to 1 part fuel needed for your engine to run decently, it's very easy to run rich (too much fuel) when you restrict air and insert the same amount of fuel into the combustion chamber. As for the PCV valve not causing a missfire, I beg to differ on that one. If the valve fails open and oil ***** into the combustion chamber, the oil can not combust. Ever noticed fouled spark plugs before from oil deposits? Happens FAR more often than not.

For Turbocharged and Supercharged app's, I use a specific modification that can net a gain of at least 2 or 3 psi by simply playing with the induction into the crankcase. If you ensure that only air can go in and nothing can go out of that inlet tube, you're way ahead of the game. Install an oil catch can by routing the PCV line from the valve cover to the can and run a PCV valve on top of the can back into the intake manifold; in short, install a catch can inline with the PCV hose/setup. After a few hundred miles, you'd get sick looking at the trash that comes out of that can! Clean air only into the engine, and it will help to prevent missfires (guaranteed).

Plugs simply don't foul out by air alone. It takes extremely hot spark, the wrong amounts of fuel and or types, oil deposits, etc. Many problems start however with a lack of good maintenance as has been stated many times fold by now. NOTHING lasts forever, but when maintained, it can go for a long time. As for the air filter fixing the black smoke, it def. won't be the first time I've seen it work; won't be the last. Staying on top of the timing belt services though is extremely critical!! Please don't play russian roulet with your engine by neglecting this service. I hope that your problem continues to stay away after your repairs. Best of luck!

Dustin

xluben
11-18-2006, 01:50 PM
my apology for not getting back with you soon enough, and for not being there when you IM'd me last night.

and i downloaded aim just for you :)


As for the PCV valve not causing a missfire, I beg to differ on that one. If the valve fails open and oil ***** into the combustion chamber, the oil can not combust. Ever noticed fouled spark plugs before from oil deposits? Happens FAR more often than not.

the new pcv valve seems to have stopped my misfires. i opened up the throttle at low rpms a couple time (what usually cause the misfires) and it seemed fine. no bogging down, just very slow acceleration :)


install a catch can inline with the PCV hose/setup. After a few hundred miles, you'd get sick looking at the trash that comes out of that can! Clean air only into the engine, and it will help to prevent missfires (guaranteed).

is it really as simple as this:
http://www.acura-tsx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9571&page=1&pp=25

$10 part at home depot, some fittings and splice it into the current hose going to the pcv valve? i could throw that in, in an afternoon if it'll help.


As for the air filter fixing the black smoke, it def. won't be the first time I've seen it work; won't be the last. With aprox. 14 parts air to 1 part fuel needed for your engine to run decently, it's very easy to run rich (too much fuel) when you restrict air and insert the same amount of fuel into the combustion chamber.

yep, good call on that, seems to have worked very well.


Staying on top of the timing belt services though is extremely critical!! Please don't play russian roulet with your engine by neglecting this service. I hope that your problem continues to stay away after your repairs. Best of luck!

should i just go to a local shop for the timing belt service?

i will try to stay on top of regular service in the future.

thanks for all the help!


Crawl under it and visually inspect it for leaks. 300-400 miles isn't very many miles to be adding a quart.

You never stated how many miles. I've owned 3 Accords and none of them really burned any oil until after 130K, then it was only about a qt./mo.

You might have worn piston rings. Buy/rent a compression tester and check individual cylinder compression and check against spec. It might be rings.

You're not really going to hurt anything unless you run it low on oil.

yes, it is an abnormally high rate of oil loss, especially since i see no 'puddling' under my car.

my accord has nearly 140,000 miles on it :fyi:

for now i'm going to go through a couple more tanks of gas and see how it's doing. if i just keep the oil level normal i shouldn't cause any damage.

jjski78
11-18-2006, 03:51 PM
should i just go to a local shop for the timing belt service?

i

Please god don't take it to Joe Schmo's Auto Repairs for the timing belt. Take it to the dealership. The dealer will usually give you a 12k mile warranty on the job, your average mom and pop shop MIGHT give you a 1k warranty. I guess I'm just bitter today about ma and pop shops because I spent the whole morning wrenching on my friends Jetta just to find that the timing belt he had replaced at a ma and pop was all screwed up. Less than a month after. :mad: What a PITA!!

phantom240
11-18-2006, 05:34 PM
Never leave a newer vehicle's more critical maintenance to a local shop, unless they are a very reputable shop. Dealers are the best for timing work, as they know EVERYTHING about your car. They WILL charge u an arm and a leg, but if it fails, you can anally rape them.

And about your oil consumption, i have a couple of ideas. Try a marvel msytery oil piston soak.
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23676 <--- If it works for staurns... IT will work for any car lol.

Also, try that "restore" stuff they sell at auto parts stores with all the other "snake oils". Ive read really good stuff about "Restore" stuff. From what ive read, the results arent immediate, but occur gradually the more you drive. takes between 1 and 2 oil change intervals.

xluben
11-18-2006, 06:04 PM
oil catch can:
http://www.acura-tsx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9571&page=1&pp=25

$10 part at home depot, some fittings and splice it into the current hose going to the pcv valve? i could throw that in, in an afternoon if it'll help.


i got the parts needed to install a DIY oil catch can in front of my pcv valve, but i've run into a problem.

here's my engine:
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/5176/pcv001mediumlo1.jpg

here's the hosing in question:
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4364/pcv003mediumip0.jpg

the end of the hose circled in green is stuck on!

as you can see i moved up the clip, so it's not holding it on anymore, and pulled very hard, but it won't budge a bit :confused:

not really an issue, since i can just splice the can can onto the hose without removing it, but i wanted to clean out the hose.

any suggestions on how to get this hose off?


And about your oil consumption, i have a couple of ideas. Try a marvel msytery oil piston soak.
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23676 <--- If it works for staurns... IT will work for any car lol.

any other opinions on this?

how do i get the spark plugs out?

phantom240
11-18-2006, 06:42 PM
any other opinions on this?

how do i get the spark plugs out?

Are you kidding? seriously... :eyebrow: You can successfully complete the "Big Three" but you cant replace ur spark plugs?



Well you gotta get a spark plug wrench (5/8" or 13/16" socket with rubber insert to hold the plug in), a ratchet, and an extension.



As far as that hose, take some good spray oil, and douse it... then take some vise grips or channel locks, and grab the hose where it is stuck on the ******. Twist it back and forth until it moves freely, then twist it back and forth while working back. Or you could cut it and get a new hose, which i would do.

xluben
11-18-2006, 08:34 PM
Are you kidding? seriously... :eyebrow: You can successfully complete the "Big Three" but you cant replace ur spark plugs?

Well you gotta get a spark plug wrench (5/8" or 13/16" socket with rubber insert to hold the plug in), a ratchet, and an extension.

i know, it's pathetic, but i've never done it before. (i know nothing about cars!)

i really don't have any idea what you meant with your explanation.

i tried pulling up the rubber plug and it was connected to a black plastic tube :confused:


As far as that hose, take some good spray oil, and douse it... then take some vise grips or channel locks, and grab the hose where it is stuck on the ******. Twist it back and forth until it moves freely, then twist it back and forth while working back. Or you could cut it and get a new hose, which i would do.

wow, that worked very well!

twisted with a pliers, then pulled, and it came right off!

here's the catch can setup i did:

this is how it originally looked with two straight fittings:

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6000/catchcan002dt4.th.jpg (http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=catchcan002dt4.jpg) http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6966/catchcan003gx7.th.jpg (http://img168.imageshack.us/my.php?image=catchcan003gx7.jpg)

here's after i realized that wouldn't fit, and put a 90 degree elbow on the intake:

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/616/catchcan007xs0.th.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=catchcan007xs0.jpg) http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9955/catchcan006rn5.th.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=catchcan006rn5.jpg)

here it is spliced into the hosing with pcv valve inline (sorry for the blurry pic):

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2411/catchcan009mo7.th.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=catchcan009mo7.jpg)

and here it is installed:

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/9857/catchcan010fd4.th.jpg (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=catchcan010fd4.jpg) http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/6412/catchcan011ww0.th.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=catchcan011ww0.jpg)

car starts and runs normally. took a 5 min drive and didn't see any oil or blackening of the filter. hopefully it doesn't fill up too often :)

phantom240
11-19-2006, 01:12 AM
...you mean to tell me you can ****** rig something like that in a day, but have never heard of a spark plug wrench? here ill show u. The insert comes in it when you buy it. So no need to mess with anything. But a word of advice from experience, spray the rubber with wd-40 or whatever to keep it from sticking to the plug. /experience.
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/tacoma_4runner_30k/spark_plug_socket.jpg

xluben
11-19-2006, 01:47 AM
but how do i get to the plugs?

xluben
11-19-2006, 02:36 AM
well, i went for a slightly longer drive with the catch can installed (probably about 20 min or so) and now the filter is very dark and there is enough oil in it to cover the bottom!

i think i should have gone for the bigger filter (but i don't know where it'd fit).

if my catch can does start filling up very quickly do you think i have some sort of other problem causing it?

also, does anyone have a good tutorial (w/pics) or how to change spark plugs? i really don't know where to start.

phantom240
11-19-2006, 10:43 AM
....*sigh*.... Well here we go: Spark plugs 101


You have spark plugs, we have established this as you have an internal combustion engine fueled by gasoline. Remove the wires going to the spark plugs. Stick your spark plug socket along with an extension on your ratchet down in the hole. Loosen then remove. Simple. When RE-installing plugs, stick the plug in the socket, and BY HAND tighten it until you cant any more, then attatch the ratchet and go 1/4 turn. AND NO MORE. you WILL eventually strip the thread if you continue to tighten it. BTW, a Haynes manual would be a bible for you. I dont mind writing up stuff... but there comes a point where ya gotta get some common sense lol. Its cool though. Makes me feel like im helping the community :D
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/phantom240/Heresurplugz.jpg

Oh, and about your catch can, it seems like you have a problem with blowby gases causing you to throw oil to the intake. Try seafoaming the engine (putting it through the brake booster vacuum hose), and also try this stuff at autoparts store called "Restore" engine treatment. I didnt think it would work at first, but my firend tried it on his car and by the next time he changed his oil, his oil comsumption went down to half of what it was before, and by the oil change after that (adding a new can each change), it consumed very little oil at all. This stuff works.

01sugar2
11-19-2006, 04:28 PM
I really wish I had more time to post on these threads like I used to do (back in the day), but alas those days are over. However, your catch can isn't exactly a can, but more so a tiny bowl. Do you see what I mean by it fills up with trash however? Moroso (aftermarket company) makes a can that I formerly used on my race applications, and I'm sure it's still around. It's LARGE compared to that however. I mounted mine to my firewall just behind the intake manifold. I dare say the size of it was about 1 quart, but don't quote me on that. I filled it about half way in about 3k miles with a turbocharged B20A5 (Honda, 1988 to 1989 Prelude fuel injected engine). If you can find a way to place the PCV on the other side of your bowl/can (hehe, but it IS WORKING), then you'll get some better results. There's another modification you can use to get "that" blow by (blown by the PCV and into the engine) debris from getting on your TB, and I'll simply have to post that up later.

http://dustin_palmer.tripod.com/home.html

That's my site from like eons ago. However, under the articles link, there should be one on Catch Cans; their design and purpose and how to install one. The pics have since been removed from the site I had them linked from, but I know they're still around and I really should try and find them again. Good read to say the least; hope this also helps some!

Dustin

AJē06
11-19-2006, 04:40 PM
I really wish I had more time to post on these threads like I used to do (back in the day), but alas those days are over. However, your catch can isn't exactly a can, but more so a tiny bowl. Do you see what I mean by it fills up with trash however? Moroso (aftermarket company) makes a can that I formerly used on my race applications, and I'm sure it's still around. It's LARGE compared to that however. I mounted mine to my firewall just behind the intake manifold. I dare say the size of it was about 1 quart, but don't quote me on that. I filled it about half way in about 3k miles with a turbocharged B20A5 (Honda, 1988 to 1989 Prelude fuel injected engine). If you can find a way to place the PCV on the other side of your bowl/can (hehe, but it IS WORKING), then you'll get some better results. There's another modification you can use to get "that" blow by (blown by the PCV and into the engine) debris from getting on your TB, and I'll simply have to post that up later.

http://dustin_palmer.tripod.com/home.html

That's my site from like eons ago. However, under the articles link, there should be one on Catch Cans; their design and purpose and how to install one. The pics have since been removed from the site I had them linked from, but I know they're still around and I really should try and find them again. Good read to say the least; hope this also helps some!

Dustin

Dustin is the ****! ;) Very helpful.

xluben
11-19-2006, 05:24 PM
I really wish I had more time to post on these threads like I used to do (back in the day), but alas those days are over. However, your catch can isn't exactly a can, but more so a tiny bowl. Do you see what I mean by it fills up with trash however? Moroso (aftermarket company) makes a can that I formerly used on my race applications, and I'm sure it's still around. It's LARGE compared to that however. I mounted mine to my firewall just behind the intake manifold. I dare say the size of it was about 1 quart, but don't quote me on that. I filled it about half way in about 3k miles with a turbocharged B20A5 (Honda, 1988 to 1989 Prelude fuel injected engine). If you can find a way to place the PCV on the other side of your bowl/can (hehe, but it IS WORKING), then you'll get some better results. There's another modification you can use to get "that" blow by (blown by the PCV and into the engine) debris from getting on your TB, and I'll simply have to post that up later.

http://dustin_palmer.tripod.com/home.html

That's my site from like eons ago. However, under the articles link, there should be one on Catch Cans; their design and purpose and how to install one. The pics have since been removed from the site I had them linked from, but I know they're still around and I really should try and find them again. Good read to say the least; hope this also helps some!

Dustin

well here's a link to a catch can using a larger filter also available at home depot:

http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19219

but i'm not really sure i'd have any where to put it without a bit more extra work.

i couldn't find the link on your site to the catch can article :confused:

01sugar2
11-20-2006, 11:23 PM
Okay so once again I goofed. Turns out, this article isn't even about catch cans! In my article section, I labeled it, "The Truth About Crankcase Breather Filters". It's been a long time since I did much with the site, but needless to say it's still pretty spot on. The hose that is mentioned in the article there refers to a slash cut tube. What the picture used to show was a simple air intake going into the throttle body, the intake manifold, and the hose from the air intake pipe (connected to the air filter) with the valve cover and PCV valve with its tube (leading into the intake manifold for burnt gas ventilation). In short, it's the entire air intake system along with the complete PCV system.

What it's saying is to take the inlet tube from the air pipe to the valve cover, and to insert a slash cut tube that sticks INTO the air pipe; in other words, to intrude into the air going into the throttle body just a little. A metal tube of some kind is best to use so that you don't have to worry about rubber or whatever coming apart or flexing and causing multiple problems. Another way to do this is to use a small 90 degree elbow and to point it towards the on coming air that's headed for the TB. THIS does nothing more than force clean air into the Valve Cover; plain and simple. But it does ensure that clean air is placed into the valve cover to help push the bad gasses out through the PCV Valve.

A follow up article was planed as I wanted to post a lot of info on the catch cans. Performance mod or not, anything that prevents oil from entering the combustion chamber is a good modification to make. ANY excess oil/blow-by you catch/trap, is that much less your engine tries to burn. That stuff causes bad smoke, kills spark plugs, causes missfires, very very poor O2 sensor readings which screws wtih your fuel maps/curves, and too much gassoline in the catalytic converters will cause them to melt; those are pretty darn expensive if you've never had to replace one. Oil can clog cats to, so be careful there as well. And no matter how new your vehicle is, I dare say there's almost no way to prevent blow-by of some kind (not for anything you or I will probably purchase anytime soon).... just food for thought.

Dustin

phantom240
11-21-2006, 01:24 AM
it does ensure that clean air is placed into the valve cover to help push the bad gasses out through the PCV Valve.

Dustin

But the pcv valve still goes into the intake, and it goes through the motor. The PCV is best vented into the atmosphere IMHO.

heyman421
11-21-2006, 01:28 AM
But the pcv valve still goes into the intake, and it goes through the motor. The PCV is best vented into the atmosphere IMHO.

as long as you can keep it out of the cabin

that's some nasty ****

phantom240
11-21-2006, 01:31 AM
... In all honesty, i would rather it in my cabin than my motor. I dont like nasty stuff goin in my motor, on the account of ive seen what it does. Rebuilding my motor has opened my eyes a bit. And EGR is gay too.

heyman421
11-21-2006, 01:34 AM
well, you can just delete the entire egr system, and do a MAF sensor adaptation

you can't just delete the crank vent, tho, it has to go somewhere

phantom240
11-21-2006, 01:37 AM
..yeah i know. I have mine leading down to the underside of the car.

01sugar2
11-22-2006, 02:00 AM
If it weren't for the time, I'd say more than I will here. If you can take the trash out of what goes into the engine in a normal PCV setup, then you'll have zero problems. And if you think the PCV is bad, try not having one. As for the EGR system, they are very important. EGR valves are actually a very amazing invention IMHO. Oxides of Nitrogen (NOx as we call it due to the near limitless number of them) happen to be the #1 killer in a 5 gas analyzation in Exhaust gases. NOx readings increase in conciderable numbers when heat is around, and EGR Valves actually cool down the in take charge of air into the combustion chamber, thus also reducing NOx readings. An Inoperative EGR Valve can easily accomodate for a good 1000+ reading on any 5 gas analyzation, and NOx is one extremely poisinous gas at that. If you want to damage your engine by dissabling your emissions setups, go right ahead. The EPA really is a pain in my butt at times in this field, but I can honestly say that these valves work extremely well; the EPA is to thank for most all of your engine computers and electronics. Damage your Catalytic converters at your own risk. Some newer engines are being produced by varying manufacturers with no EGR valves, but controlling emissions is a must. A lot of R&D was put into your vehicle, and I dare say that the manufacturers know a bit more about it than we do (def. myself included).

Dustin

phantom240
11-22-2006, 02:25 AM
My EGR system is back from when dinosaurs walked the earth, 1990. Its crappy and inefficient. Every bit of my emissions are removed to un clutter my engine bay. I have a plan for reducing the emissions though. Though i dont get smogged.

AJē06
11-22-2006, 02:41 AM
If it weren't for the time, I'd say more than I will here. If you can take the trash out of what goes into the engine in a normal PCV setup, then you'll have zero problems. And if you think the PCV is bad, try not having one. As for the EGR system, they are very important. EGR valves are actually a very amazing invention IMHO. Oxides of Nitrogen (NOx as we call it due to the near limitless number of them) happen to be the #1 killer in a 5 gas analyzation in Exhaust gases. NOx readings increase in conciderable numbers when heat is around, and EGR Valves actually cool down the in take charge of air into the combustion chamber, thus also reducing NOx readings. An Inoperative EGR Valve can easily accomodate for a good 1000+ reading on any 5 gas analyzation, and NOx is one extremely poisinous gas at that. If you want to damage your engine by dissabling your emissions setups, go right ahead. The EPA really is a pain in my butt at times in this field, but I can honestly say that these valves work extremely well; the EPA is to thank for most all of your engine computers and electronics. Damage your Catalytic converters at your own risk. Some newer engines are being produced by varying manufacturers with no EGR valves, but controlling emissions is a must. A lot of R&D was put into your vehicle, and I dare say that the manufacturers know a bit more about it than we do (def. myself included).

Dustin

He knows Accord ****... :p:

Ignatowski
11-22-2006, 08:54 AM
to have an accord engine go bad premature
you have had to have done some serious beating on it
or never changed the oil....in general honda engines are one
of the best production engines made and to kill one you really
have to try hard.

.02

phantom240
11-22-2006, 11:58 AM
Oh yeah, between honda toyota and nissan...theyre like an indestructable force. You cant kill those motors without serious neglect

xluben
11-22-2006, 01:39 PM
well, i got the car used with no maintenance record :(

catch can is close to half full after about 100 miles.......

01sugar2
11-22-2006, 10:02 PM
To be honest, I don't care how old your system is as far as the EGR Valve goes; my 89's system isn't even OBD1 and it does the same as the newest systems today do. I fully understand engine clutter, believe me. However, I wouldn't go driving just anywhere as some places do monitor your emissions, and not just for inspection purposes. In Texas, you'll find these setups on major on/off ramps to get on highways a lot of times. they have all kinds of radars and fancy equipment pointed at every vehicle that tries to get on/off the roads, and they can get a very accurate reading on everything. C02 gas is one thing however it is a pollutant. The #1 killer of anything however is the NOx reading, and I can 100% promise you that your 90 model setup w/o an EGR Valve will not run cleaner than one with the valve installed and working properly. Converters fail b/c of this gas, caused by excessive fuel and heat. I've had brand new, $600 cats fail on us (our shop) in less than 6 months due to bad EGR issues (silly fords). Once a Cat is melted, you'll get driveability concerns like no tomorrow; usually starts with a random missfire and goes from there.

I'm by no means trying to tell you what to do or how to run your vehicle, but I would like to point out the dangers behind what more than likely several people are doing. The fines they hand out in Texas for poor emissions would not be liked by those on this forum. I know many aren't from Texas, but I can assure you that the EPA is doing their darndest to make these laws a national standard. If and or should I say, WHEN everyone goes to emission testing for vehicles, you'll start to see more and more older cars being phased out; it happened in Texas in 2001. Once the new OBD3 vehicles are released, the EPA is going to have a field day on the automotive field as a whole. I don't like the changes, but being forced to comply with them will def. make us all have to think twice about any engine modifications. All I can say is, be careful. Even w/o electronic everything that most newer vehicles have, "big brother" is always watching something; very scary thought if you ask me.

Dustin

phantom240
11-22-2006, 10:16 PM
... yeah i know that much, but if im driving through texas in my smoggernaut and get popped, they really cant do much, because the car is registered in a non emissions enforced parish (county for the rest of the states). Right? Also, check out what this thing does.
http://www.fuelfromh2o.com/
And check out
http://www.fuelfromh2o.com/emissions.html
Im getting one of those for my car... for more than one reason.

xluben
11-23-2006, 11:24 AM
i'm not sure i have any idea what you guys are talking about now.

chuksw9ve
11-25-2006, 01:09 PM
DO NOT let a leaky head gasket go for too long.Have a 97 F 150 that leaked,and filled one of the cylinders.Went to start it,and totally wrecked it.Bent the connecting rod to the piston.Made a horrible noise,but I could still drive it to the fix-it shop.But what ws a simple head job became a new engine in about 5 seconds.

chuksw9ve
11-25-2006, 01:12 PM
Hondas seem pretty reliable.I have a 20 year old Honda bike that still runs like a top.Only thing besides reguler maintanace was a new alternator.

xluben
12-31-2006, 03:09 PM
well, now it's consuming nearly a quart every 100 miles!

could this be a timing belt issue?

Silver
01-01-2007, 09:57 PM
sounds like bad valve guides and seals or worn rings. get the head off and get it machined. get new guides and seals. do a compression check too.

100 miles to a quart has to be that.

Timing belt issure would be something along the lines of car running like **** and when valve meets piston.

Silver
01-01-2007, 10:00 PM
DO NOT let a leaky head gasket go for too long.Have a 97 F 150 that leaked,and filled one of the cylinders.Went to start it,and totally wrecked it.Bent the connecting rod to the piston.Made a horrible noise,but I could still drive it to the fix-it shop.But what ws a simple head job became a new engine in about 5 seconds.

That is called hydo-lock and it *****:greedy:

PESteele
01-01-2007, 10:02 PM
**** i wish i got 3-400 miles on each tank. How much oil does your car hold

xluben
01-02-2007, 12:10 AM
sounds like bad valve guides and seals or worn rings. get the head off and get it machined. get new guides and seals. do a compression check too.

100 miles to a quart has to be that.

Timing belt issure would be something along the lines of car running like **** and when valve meets piston.

and i'm guessing all of this costs a lot (?)


**** i wish i got 3-400 miles on each tank. How much oil does your car hold

gas tank = 17gal
oil = 4.6 quart (i think)

before the plug change i was getting 28-30mpg, since then 20-23mpg.

xluben
01-05-2007, 07:51 PM
well, i decided to try auto-rx. i'm about 650 miles into my first cleaning phase.

also, i got a socket set for christmas, so i took out my spark plugs and gapped them.

they ALL were gapped too big, and one of them was way off.

also, they all had a bit of buildup, but one of them had a TON of stuff on it, and it's only been 6 months since i had them changed.

i hope gapping the plugs will help my gas mileage:

was 27-30 mpg
got my spark plugs changed
dropped to 20-23 mpg (hasn't been above 23 since i got them changed)

hopefully now it will go back up.

i'm going to continue the auto-rx plan and hopefully my oil consumption will go down.