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iamamp3pimp
09-05-2006, 09:41 PM
I am thinking of doing something with horns, because i know thye seem to get loud as F, but need a schooling on it....

can someone point me n the right direction?

i am working with the equipment in my sig.

Im wanting to put 8's in the doors for the midbass, and then horns for the midrange....i dont know if they cover the highs or not, but if not, then i need some ideas on tweets to play with too......

squeak9798
09-05-2006, 11:26 PM
You don't need tweeters with horns. They cover from ~1khz on up (how low they play depends on the horn/etc...but it's typically in the 1khz range).

How low can the xover frequency for the highpass on the 880 go? You'll want no higher than 1200hz...down to 1khz or under would be best.

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 12:34 PM
know what....idk


let me go see.



would i need a midrange....or should some poly mids do me just fine?

JimJ
09-06-2006, 12:35 PM
Wouldn't need an extra midrange, no...just a stout 8".

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 12:40 PM
thanks for the response Squak....it goes down to 1.25k

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 12:41 PM
thanks to you too Jim,.....I am an admitted noobix at anything but bass.



what horns/ (stout) 8 would you recommend?

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 12:41 PM
I wont say money isn't an issue, but i dont know what average, low, and high prices for this stuff is.

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 04:49 PM
I dont even now where to begin....

djman37
09-06-2006, 04:54 PM
there was a guy on SD selling new CDT 8's for cheap.

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 05:00 PM
im not registered there......I might have to check it out.

Would they be considered *Stout* 8's?

Johnny Drama
09-06-2006, 05:01 PM
How "loud" are you wanting these horns? You could possibly get away with the extremis or possibly a nice 7" dayton or DYN midbass driver.

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 05:37 PM
something to keep up with the wall.....but sound nice and clear as well. the wall is in the 148's by ear, but i really dont know as i havent gotten it metered.

Johnny Drama
09-06-2006, 05:40 PM
something to keep up with the wall.....but sound nice and clear as well. the wall is in the 148's by ear, but i really dont know as i havent gotten it metered.


Well, you will be deaf soon :p:

but it sounds like the extremis wont work for you. You will definatly want some 8's in there.

squeak9798
09-06-2006, 05:51 PM
Keep in mind that the 8's can't simply be midbass monsters...they are going to need to play cleanly to ~1khz aswell. That a task some 8's can't handle, so not every single one will work with horns.

What's your budget?

What amplifiers do you current have/plan on using?

Best way to start is by excluding what will not work for you :)

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 06:07 PM
got you.

like i said, i dont know what is normal, but i am working with a viper 550.6 for now. i will probably pick up a kicker 650.4 in the future is 50 watts per isnt enough...

what are the average costs for horn setups and things like that? ill say about 300 for the drivers...if that is low, let me know and i am willing to go up.

Johnny Drama
09-06-2006, 06:10 PM
Dont forget you are going to need a good EQ for the horns. Keep that in mind.

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 06:13 PM
eq from the deck isnt sufficent?

Johnny Drama
09-06-2006, 06:14 PM
eq from the deck isnt sufficent?


How many bands is it?

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 06:16 PM
16 graphic (fixed) L&R

Johnny Drama
09-06-2006, 06:18 PM
16 graphic (fixed) L&R


It will work. 30 band or a good PEQ would be much better though.

iceteebone
09-06-2006, 06:19 PM
you don't need a lot of power for horns. i'd keep the viper if it were me. nice amp to have if you ever go 4-way active

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 06:19 PM
true.....


what about the budget though...should i be looking higher?

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 06:20 PM
4 way includes the sub......right?


sub

midbass
midrange (considered mid, but also spli at the amp)
and highs?

squeak9798
09-06-2006, 06:29 PM
4 way includes the sub......right?


sub

midbass
midrange (considered mid, but also spli at the amp)
and highs?

Yes.


As for your budget.....kinda low, all things considered.

A set of used CD1's, which is the cheapest true HLCD Image Dynamics has released, will run you about $200. That only leaves $100 for the mids/etc. Kinda tight.

Give yourself atleast another $50 to play with. The more the merrier :)

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 06:34 PM
400 then.

it will be my winter SQ project anyway


i thought horns were diy....but i guess not.



lol

squeak9798
09-06-2006, 06:38 PM
They are DIY...."elite" DIY ;)

Definitely not a cheap route.

Search around in the classifieds over on places like www.elitecaraudio, www.carsound.com, www.buwaldahybrids.com ....those are the more likely places to find some used horns and mids for a decent price.

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 06:40 PM
true....i need to research.

i dont know whats good, decent, and junk

squeak9798
09-06-2006, 06:46 PM
Stay away from anything that uses a piezo driver....you want true HLCD that use actual compression drivers.

Image Dynamics CD1Pro's and CD2 Comps are both good. I don't pay much attention to USD Audio (but they aren't for sale on the forums much, either :p: , so you probably won't find much if any for sale), but anything above their piezo-based horns are good. If they happen to pop up, the Illusion Audio CH1 horns are good (comparable to the CD2's).

Or, you could build your own :D B&C Neo compression drivers can be found on partsexpress, and are very similar to the ID Neo compression drivers. The Radian 450PB on Partsexpress is the same driver used in the Illusion Audio horns. Just mount either of those up to the ID horn bodies (which you can buy separately), and you're good to go after some EQ work.

Also, you need to figure out if the full bodied horns will fit in your install, or if you need minibodies. In your situation, since you can't go below 1.25kzh anyways, I'd suggest you get minibodies for ease of mounting. An advantage of the full size bodies is that they can play lower....but since you have a finite highpass xover point, that won't help you much :p: IIRC the minis are supposed to be a little better in the midrange area anyways.

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 07:10 PM
what about things like mounting locations? and what are the average sizes for the minibodies? I was thinking of putting them in the dash, and firing them at the glass.

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 07:10 PM
and this HLCD...waht is it?

iceteebone
09-06-2006, 07:11 PM
horns are a ***** to mount. you want to mount them up underneath the dash.

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 07:12 PM
firing at the glass, or at the floor.

iceteebone
09-06-2006, 07:14 PM
firing at the glass, or at the floor.

i believe EAC has a good horn tutorial


www.elitecaraudio.com

look under the tutorial section

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 07:17 PM
i registered there and tried to make a new thread.....tells me to reg again.



ill look for the tut tho.

Thanks teh teebone

JimJ
09-06-2006, 07:18 PM
HLCD = horn loaded compression driver...just an acronym.

Savstyle
09-06-2006, 07:20 PM
and this HLCD...waht is it?

HLCD=horn loaded compresstion driver

Have fun with this ive wanted to install horns for awhile now, a lil over 2 months of decent reserch and still havent decided on which ones.

Beat_Dominator
09-06-2006, 07:20 PM
Horns are for neWbs.

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 07:20 PM
i just read tha ton the tutorial.....


i glanced over it.

im gonna give it an in depth read, and im sure ill have more questions when i am done.


Thanks to all so far

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 07:22 PM
Horns are for neWbs.



I did say that i was a noobx

Beat_Dominator
09-06-2006, 07:24 PM
I did say that i was a noobx

Then horns will be perfect for j00 :)

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 07:37 PM
Then horns will be perfect for j00 :)



lawl


help me out a little.....


im pretty intent on going with horns tho

Beat_Dominator
09-06-2006, 07:40 PM
I think everything hasd been said.. lower x-over point than normal... a pain in the *** to find a place for them as they are big. They won't need much power, just a good pair of mid/bass speakers to compliment them. :)

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 07:42 PM
got you.

I have been running the active 2 way, and while imo its nice, i know that it can be much better........and im not afraid to mount them wherever...just as long as i am doing it right, which is what i am trying to find out how to do.

pimpedout97x
09-06-2006, 07:48 PM
get some of the mids and tweets i have lol...ive heard them installed, they get loud...and they sound good (to me at least)

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 08:03 PM
ehhhh.....



what do you have?

pimpedout97x
09-06-2006, 08:20 PM
8 of these- http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=290-400

8 of these- http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=290-532&DID=7

only thing is those 6.5's have 0 midbass. but ive heard them and i like it(with subs) so thats all that really matters;)

anyways, they do get pretty loud, and they sound really clear doing it. i like em. youll hear them whenever i get them installed...dont know when thatll be:(

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 08:22 PM
ill probably be done by then



looking at going horns because i hear they can keep up well.

audiolife
09-06-2006, 08:23 PM
you need too look at the x over slope too. and if you have the room horns are alot easier to mount than making any kind of pod. looking for a mid/mid bass to go along i would look into a pr of beyma power m6 6.5's. again x over slope will be important as with any set up i have done with horns 24 db was used and with that phase was either 180 degrees off or right on. fire them from under the dash straight out. a horns weakness is not heigth the disperse very very well up and down its width they can have an issue with (hence the shape of the horn body) that being said if done right they kill regular speakers in staging and as far as being "in your face" it gets no better.

pimpedout97x
09-06-2006, 08:23 PM
ya you will deffinently be done way before me...

and mine will have no problem keeping up with my mt's i can guarentee you that ;)

either way i wanna hear your horns if you get them

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 08:24 PM
okay.


you will be louder.


that is teh ghey

lawl

audiolife
09-06-2006, 08:41 PM
ya you will deffinently be done way before me...

and mine will have no problem keeping up with my mt's i can guarentee you that ;)

either way i wanna hear your horns if you get them

depending on what set of horns he gets he may need more subs lol back when i had my firebird i had a set of cd 3 ultra comps turned way down as they would over power 2 idq 8 dvcs and 2 15" idws rather easily. when i rolled my windows down you heard the lyrics every bit as well as you heard the boom from over a block away with much traffic noise.

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 08:44 PM
interesting.

I will be upvamping the sub stage with 2 MT 15's and another IA 20.1....but you didnt hear that from me.

lol

audiolife
09-06-2006, 08:53 PM
in an old school outlaw spl contest (before the filters where put on) set up exactly how i had it (roughly 12 watts turned down max amp the would do is 25x2 rms and the speakers could do 100w rms) it burped a 153 in the throat to flash dance lol. granted they dont use mics like that anymore but in my firebird you couldnt yell loud enough to be heard from the driver side or the passenger side (for the other person to hear you). in the opening of marilyn manson's "sweet dreams" you couldnt hear yourself scream. that horn had a sensitivity right around 109-113 db

pimpedout97x
09-06-2006, 08:53 PM
interesting.

I will be upvamping the sub stage with 2 MT 15's and another IA 20.1....but you didnt hear that from me.

lol



haha whens that gonna take place?

:)

pimpedout97x
09-06-2006, 08:55 PM
in an old school outlaw spl contest (before the filters where put on) set up exactly how i had it (roughly 12 watts turned down max amp the would do is 25x2 rms and the speakers could do 100w rms) it burped a 153 in the throat to flash dance lol. granted they dont use mics like that anymore but in my firebird you couldnt yell loud enough to be heard from the driver side or the passenger side (for the other person to hear you). in the opening of marilyn manson's "sweet dreams" you couldnt hear yourself scream. that horn had a sensitivity right around 109-113 db

i really wanna hear some nice horns...never heard em

my 8 "supertweeters" are 105dB efficient...

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 09:05 PM
in the coming months..

audiolife
09-06-2006, 09:08 PM
www.imagedynamicsusa.com cd-2 hlcd
or if you want something like your eminence look into beyma ast-09's http://car.beyma.com/downloads/Catalogo_BEYMA_CAR_Mayo_06.pdf are pretty loud too but imo they dont do what a bigger horn will do without propper aiming.
aiming a full body horn is like trying to p@@@ in a side of the car compared to finding the magic 4" area where they sound best. just my opinion though

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 09:09 PM
i am looking into getting minibodies anyway because my xover only goes down to 1.25k

audiolife
09-06-2006, 09:11 PM
what slope are you useing?

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 09:15 PM
http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/tech_page.php?name=CD2%20Mini%20Body&type=horn&id=cd2


seeing as how these reccomend 30 watts @ 8 ohms....and i am getting 50 @ 4 ohms... is it safe to assume 25 watts (approx) at 8 ohms will be sufficient??


what slope are you useing?

6,12,18,24,30

whatever works best, i am running active from the 880




97x has the eminences...I have the RE RE Comps

pimpedout97x
09-06-2006, 09:15 PM
im running the memphis 16-cx35 crossover with mine. its all beat up, but its gonna be hidden, if it doesnt work, ill prally get the clarion MCD360

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 09:17 PM
even the minibodies are rather large @ 23 inches from end to end....



should make for an interesting install...

pimpedout97x
09-06-2006, 09:19 PM
wonder how loud this would get...lol

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=264-238

audiolife
09-06-2006, 09:19 PM
http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/tech_page.php?name=CD2%20Mini%20Body&type=horn&id=cd2


seeing as how these reccomend 30 watts @ 8 ohms....and i am getting 50 @ 4 ohms... is it safe to assume 25 watts (approx) at 8 ohms will be sufficient??



6,12,18,24,30

whatever works best, i am running active from the 880




97x has the eminences...I have the RE RE Comps

if you get the horns you will know which slope works best will be between the 30 and 24 im sure

pimpedout97x
09-06-2006, 09:20 PM
even the minibodies are rather large @ 23 inches from end to end....



should make for an interesting install...

thats why i got what i have, becuase i didnt wanna mod the dash any, and theres like no room for them under my dash at all. plus i wanted a fibgerglass interior, so i was gonna be glassing the panels anyways, so all those drivers in the panels...who cares...they were getting glassed anyways:D

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 09:20 PM
tight.



lol

pimpedout97x
09-06-2006, 09:21 PM
lol tightttttttttttt haha

audiolife
09-06-2006, 09:23 PM
wonder how loud this would get...lol

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=264-238

thats right around where the cd-3s were they used altec lansing drivers. id dropped down to just cd-2s because they were easier to keep noise out of

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 09:25 PM
not trying to spend That much........way over budget

audiolife
09-06-2006, 09:28 PM
thats why i got what i have, becuase i didnt wanna mod the dash any, and theres like no room for them under my dash at all. plus i wanted a fibgerglass interior, so i was gonna be glassing the panels anyways, so all those drivers in the panels...who cares...they were getting glassed anyways:D

would be easy to put in an explorer. what people dont consider "normal" always becomes difficult when its not. my guess would be alot easier puting in 2 drivers like im talking about vs 8 of what you are doing. i knew a guy that had 2 pr of cd-2's under the dash and 1 pr in back along with 8 sound stream spl 160 subs and 2 idw 10's (mids) all in a tahoe and still had leg room lol

pimpedout97x
09-06-2006, 09:37 PM
not trying to spend That much........way over budget

what, that one i listed from partsexpress? lol

audiolife- im dumb and dont listen to anyone:hilariou: lol...but ya im a hardhead...o well ive already got them and im not selling them, ive changed drivers 9734897 times lol...

anyways, ive talked with this guy(actually lives in brandon/tampa area) and he said his was loud and he could hardly sit in the car, and you could hear his car for BLOCKS loud and clear...same 8 mids and 8 tweets i have, and the clarion MCD360 crossover, on a kicker 650.2 or something i think...

his 4th midrange is on the rear deck. im gonna have 2 mids and 3 tweets in each front door, 1 mid in each kick, and the last 2 mids and 2 tweets will be in some sort of pod above my head around the top of the wall/headliner.

i would do it like this guy did, but if i do 3 mids like that, the last one will fire right into my seats, which is kinda a waste of a mid...

he got these made at Divine Sounds on dale mabry and waters lol

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/pimpedout92x/eminence.jpg

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 09:38 PM
thats loud.


now im still not sure where to face them no matter where they go.


im willing to put the wherever......but i havent seen any installs.

anyone have any shots that they might be willing to share?

pimpedout97x
09-06-2006, 09:46 PM
i could have sworn ive seen a neon with horns once...ill look around though

iamamp3pimp
09-06-2006, 09:51 PM
i am too.

pimpedout97x
09-06-2006, 10:02 PM
couple decent pics here...its a ranger though, same interior as mine, and i dont really like how the cd2 mini's look under that dash...

edit: i forgot to post the link, and i lost it and im not looking for it again! lol

audiolife
09-06-2006, 11:16 PM
what, that one i listed from partsexpress? lol

audiolife- im dumb and dont listen to anyone:hilariou: lol...but ya im a hardhead...o well ive already got them and im not selling them, ive changed drivers 9734897 times lol...

anyways, ive talked with this guy(actually lives in brandon/tampa area) and he said his was loud and he could hardly sit in the car, and you could hear his car for BLOCKS loud and clear...same 8 mids and 8 tweets i have, and the clarion MCD360 crossover, on a kicker 650.2 or something i think...

his 4th midrange is on the rear deck. im gonna have 2 mids and 3 tweets in each front door, 1 mid in each kick, and the last 2 mids and 2 tweets will be in some sort of pod above my head around the top of the wall/headliner.

i would do it like this guy did, but if i do 3 mids like that, the last one will fire right into my seats, which is kinda a waste of a mid...

he got these made at Divine Sounds on dale mabry and waters lol

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/pimpedout92x/eminence.jpg

you can hear the horns im talking about for blocks (this is parked inside the county fair block can still hear it over 10,000 people and an "olympic bob" ride with a peavy sound system blairing GnR)and finish top 3 in the world in sq with a "100 watt" (lol) system. it would also look alot better than that door but too each their own. horns take 3-4 back straps (2 in the front on the horn body flange which are trimable down 17" for full body 11"-9" for mini and 2 on the motor) its also alot easier to tune 2 speakers than it is 8 but if you arent into that you are fine. not picking on you but there are a few advantages with useing less drivers. if you dont care about sound stage and imaging thats fine (you are well within your reason to do so) but with what i am talking about you can do both. my way the speakers cost more but can be put in in under 2 hours (4 if you want to make it look cool) and have 4 wires running 2 speakers from a smaller 2 channel amp. my first real car audio system (about 1990) had 27 speakers and when a problem ever occured it was a real puta to work on. my advice (to the thread starter) is you can generally pick up a good used set of horns (like squeak talked about) for 350ish to 250 ish and go from there. you wouldnt be disappointed at all. might be a little out of budget but no worse than spending less then being unhappy selling that at a loss and buying something else type routine.

pimpedout97x
09-06-2006, 11:21 PM
i know many people have told me that before, but ive gone too far and for now i guess itll be good lol...

T3mpest
09-06-2006, 11:47 PM
without some work horns won't sound particularly amazing anyway. If he's already got a bajillon driver shoved into his car might as well not change, it's still going to be loud and in your face, if that's the only point you might as well NOT use horns

audiolife
09-07-2006, 12:00 AM
without some work horns won't sound particularly amazing anyway. If he's already got a bajillon driver shoved into his car might as well not change, it's still going to be loud and in your face, if that's the only point you might as well NOT use horns

70% of shops probably at least dont sell horns and i bet probably less than that have actually installed them. they arent hard to install and if you actually have very good equipment around them they are pretty easy to tune. ALOT of the all time great sq cars used them and they are easier to set up than 4-10 of anything i can think of. speaking from real experience from all sides (competitor, consumer and installer) and i still go to some of the larger shows and listen to some of the latest and greatest.

iamamp3pimp
09-07-2006, 12:36 AM
i wanted the horns...and i just have RE RE comps...

lol

iamamp3pimp
09-07-2006, 06:47 AM
how are these for stout 8's

http://www.realmofexcursion.com/store/product_info.php/cPath/21_59/products_id/145

audiolife
09-07-2006, 12:26 PM
they have to play up to 1.25k easy i dont remember the specs on those. you dont need a "beefy" speaker just one that sounds good and keeps up.

iamamp3pimp
09-07-2006, 01:49 PM
sweet.

squeak9798
09-07-2006, 05:59 PM
how are these for stout 8's

http://www.realmofexcursion.com/store/product_info.php/cPath/21_59/products_id/145


http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2180104&postcount=14

audiolife
09-07-2006, 06:07 PM
hush you lol

squeak9798
09-07-2006, 06:08 PM
:p:

T3mpest
09-07-2006, 07:21 PM
70% of shops probably at least dont sell horns and i bet probably less than that have actually installed them. they arent hard to install and if you actually have very good equipment around them they are pretty easy to tune. ALOT of the all time great sq cars used them and they are easier to set up than 4-10 of anything i can think of. speaking from real experience from all sides (competitor, consumer and installer) and i still go to some of the larger shows and listen to some of the latest and greatest.

That's true but is he goin to have good equipment around? Does he even have the patience or ear to tune it? I'm just saying if his only goal is pure volume he's losing some of the better benefits of horns anyway, who cares about tonality at 120db of treble! That's total sensory overload. Sure lots of SQ installs have used horns, many fairly sucessful (stupid BMW's:naughty: ) That's not the point though if he's doing it to keep up with subs, which judging by his multiple mid install he's alreay using, he might as well not switch, there's no real benefit of going to horns at this point. He has all the volume he wants I'd assume and SQ isnt' a big concern. I'm not against horns, I plan on using them in my next setup actually.


I'd say if when doing a horn install a 3 way is your best bet. It's hard to find a driver that will play 80-1k with enough authority to keep up with horns. To get the lower midrange in focus you usually end up switching phase which kills your midbass. Granted if you dont' plan on turning your volume up alot you can do fine in a 2 way, especially if you use a large/vented kickpanel, with a higher effeciency driver.

audiolife
09-07-2006, 11:08 PM
i sold 9 pairs of horns in a hole in the wall in auburn indiana. when people heard them in a proper set up they were all amazed. granted this was like '96-97 but the customers goals were the same "just be loud". we had a company called pyle (same name but definately better stuff in the old days) that made horns (alot like those eminence) that people used in multiple sets. thing is when you throw 2 or 3 in your door and even a pair or 2 in your dash they are nowhere near as coheirent as the types of horns im talking about. they dont hit you from every angle like 6 screaming kids vs 2 coherent singers that are individually louder solidly in front of you. it isnt like there isnt a difference sometimes you just have to show people

iamamp3pimp
09-08-2006, 12:12 AM
I dont have multiple midbass drivers. I think you have me and pimpoedout97x confused with each other.

He has eminences

I have Re Re comps....I mean yeah i want it to keep up with the subs, but i would like it to sound at least decent as well...

audiolife
09-08-2006, 12:23 AM
the quality of the gear surrounding the horns should be decent. as far as eq and such (i used to have 2 audio control eqts and an idx24 x over) some people shy away from cd-1e but i have heard a few sound great. only thing to remember is if they sound "off" flip the positive and neg around on the passenger side. that makes a huge diff most of the time. im not telling you to "automatically get horns" but being in florida and if they have sbn (daytona) where they have sq vehicles look for them and see if you can listen. im sure it will be alot different than you think.

iamamp3pimp
09-08-2006, 12:39 AM
i am pretty set on them....just trying my best to learn about them so i have everything right.....

Slammed
01-28-2007, 09:37 PM
I have some Illusion CH-1/Image Dynamics CD2 Pro Mini Horn hybrids for sale

they were around $900 New

$200 shipped to your door :)


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