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IamDeMan
09-02-2006, 08:53 PM
I bought my NSBs a little before Brandon did. I am just now getting started building my towers. They will be 8 ft tall and tuned to 60hz. They will contain in each tower 16 NSBs paired with 12 dayton 3/4" tweeters and a 12db basic XO @ 4.5Khz. I plan on doing 3 layers of laquer. I am contemplating wheter buring a 1/4" hole in dust cap should be done. I have seen it recomended a few places to aid cooling. Anywho here is 2 days progress.

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/9159/linearray004bu1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/9260/linearray005hl6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

baseballer1100
09-02-2006, 08:56 PM
Those are going to be **** what are you going to use to cut all those circles out?

IamDeMan
09-02-2006, 09:00 PM
Those are going to be **** what are you going to use to cut all those circles out?Plunge router and my Jasper jig. I wish the jig worked with my dremel though. It would be a lot less cumbersome for this size circle.

jeepintn
09-02-2006, 09:01 PM
gonna look very nice. keep us updated.

joetama
09-03-2006, 02:19 AM
Booo evil Line Arrays..... Anyway, looks like you got a nice start keep it up, just don't get too crazy on us now....

baseballer1100
09-03-2006, 02:22 AM
Plunge router and my Jasper jig. I wish the jig worked with my dremel though. It would be a lot less cumbersome for this size circle.

jasper jigs and plunge routers pretty easy to use though? I just bought a jasper jig today and already have a plunge router.

IamDeMan
09-03-2006, 08:25 AM
Booo evil Line Arrays..... Anyway, looks like you got a nice start keep it up, just don't get too crazy on us now....
teh line arrays shall prevail, muhahahahahahahaha

Thanks mang.


jasper jigs and plunge routers pretty easy to use though? I just bought a jasper jig today and already have a plunge router.

Totally easy, and pure lifesaver for large diameter circles. On smaller ones it feels cumbersome but gets it done.

dalucifer
09-03-2006, 12:45 PM
i <3 teh line arrays..:veryexci:

baseballer1100
09-03-2006, 03:04 PM
teh line arrays shall prevail, muhahahahahahahaha

Thanks mang.



Totally easy, and pure lifesaver for large diameter circles. On smaller ones it feels cumbersome but gets it done.

Sweet can't wait to get mine in..

thylantyr
09-04-2006, 01:36 PM
1. Don't mess with NSB dust caps.

2. Try to make the ports swappabled to allow different tuning.
[60hz - 100hz range].

3. Best NSB SQ = 4-6 coats of lacquer on the paper cone & dust cap, not surround.

4. NSB frame lip *****, it hinders proper NSB installation in the hole for an air tight fit. Do some test cuts on scrap wood to analyze perfect fit. Use rope caulk as
the gasket material between NSB and wood.

5. Minimize internal chamber echo with good sound conditioning polyfil, but
don't hinder port operation - keep the poly near the walls and leave the air
space more open.

6. High pass the NSB to minimize cone excursion. Try 80hz - 100hz with
2nd order - 4th order crossover. I cross mine at 65hz, 8th order as it works fine.
This boosts your power handing - or run no high pass but keep volumes much lower.

Did you come to a conclusion on wiring?

IamDeMan
09-04-2006, 02:19 PM
I'm going to do 4 groups of 4 wired in paralell then series wire the groups for a final 8 ohm load. For awhile they will only be getting 110 watts RMS or less. If I decide to juice up down the road, I'll reconfigure it.

brandontw
09-06-2006, 04:51 AM
**** i was hoping you would never get around to building them so i wouldn't be bested.. but theyre already looking better than mine...:yumyum:

what sort of wood is that- mdf? Im glad your using more tweeters, and putting more planning into the enclosure design, those are the two things i regret... Dont get me wrong, im still extremely happy with mine, just things i would have rather had... i rushed into mine.

Also, be sure to get all your tools out before you seal them up, im pretty sure i have some needle noses sitting on the middle brace of my left speaker..:p:

As thylatr said, be sure to do alot of test runs on the NSB mounting, they are very awkward to mount, i wish they had made them easier to mount :(

Congrats on getting started, and keep this thread up, i want to see the process so i can learn more for my next project...

IamDeMan
09-06-2006, 10:26 AM
**** i was hoping you would never get around to building them so i wouldn't be bested.. but theyre already looking better than mine...:yumyum: I wouldn't say that. Yours look **** good.

what sort of wood is that- mdf?Baltic Birch ply Im glad your using more tweeters, and putting more planning into the enclosure design, those are the two things i regret... Dont get me wrong, im still extremely happy with mine, just things i would have rather had... i rushed into mine. I know I will have to attenuate the tweeters some. I have Lpads that I have no clue on how to wire up yet lol.

Also, be sure to get all your tools out before you seal them up, im pretty sure i have some needle noses sitting on the middle brace of my left speaker..:p:

As thylatr said, be sure to do alot of test runs on the NSB mounting, they are very awkward to mount, i wish they had made them easier to mount :(

Congrats on getting started, and keep this thread up, i want to see the process so i can learn more for my next project...
Yes, I can see these buggers being a pain to mount. One thin *** lip.

ngsm13
09-06-2006, 11:33 AM
Cool.

Subscribed.

nG

brandontw
09-07-2006, 03:14 AM
Baltic Birch ply

Cool, it look like its going together better than my pine boards did...

IamDeMan
09-07-2006, 11:29 AM
Cool, it look like its going together better than my pine boards did...

It han't been a problem yet. Just gluin, clampin, and brad nailin. I start making holes soon.

thylantyr
09-07-2006, 01:04 PM
One tip.

When making a line array, it might be better to cut the driver holes on the
bare wood first, then if you accomplished that step without error, glue
the wood second.

Reason is, when you cut so many holes, especially NSB's, the margin for error
can be high and it's just easier to get another piece of wood and start again
if there is a fubar in construction, but if the box is already assembled, then
you cut the holes and error................... ouch.

IamDeMan
09-08-2006, 05:19 PM
Problem:

This project is on delay until further notice. I just lost my present job and can no longer set my attention towards anything but finding another one. If anyone knows of anything involoving managerial duties, especially involving warehousing. please keep me in mind.

CIAO!
Rob DeBok

thylantyr
09-08-2006, 05:37 PM
Get a new job
Build your speaker
Aim speaker at former boss
Crank Slayer!

ballstothewall
09-08-2006, 06:00 PM
Get a new job
Build your speaker
Aim speaker at former boss
Crank Slayer!

Excellent idea.

brandontw
09-08-2006, 06:09 PM
Problem:

This project is on delay until further notice. I just lost my present job and can no longer set my attention towards anything but finding another one. If anyone knows of anything involoving managerial duties, especially involving warehousing. please keep me in mind.

CIAO!
Rob DeBok

That *****.:mad:

thylantyr
09-09-2006, 12:44 AM
Excellent idea.

A death star parabolic line array, the focused beam of high intensity Slayer
will provide intenstinal penetration, entrail spillage.
http://img-tbhl.theonering.net/peter/images/PJ_BT-Costa-entrails.jpg

ssj2xxgotenxx
09-09-2006, 01:58 AM
I have some clamps like those :) Looking good thus far!

springy101
09-09-2006, 08:11 PM
where did you get your nsb's from?

thylantyr
09-10-2006, 04:52 AM
NSB's were a Parts Express buyout. They are sold out. I have a nice stock of
them for any future crazy projects I may try. I'm not sure who else has some
for sale. You can poll the audience on the PE forum.

IamDeMan
09-18-2006, 09:03 PM
Well I have a job starting the 25th that will do in the mean time while I look for something more suitable. It's start pay isn't terrible and it has med, dental and vision along with a decent 401k to roll my other one into. The job itself isn't eactly my cup of tea but will do for now.

So, I did some work today. I cut the holes for the NSBs on one tower. Then mocked up where the tweeters and ports will be just for a photo.

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/8150/linearray008xl0.jpg

IamDeMan
09-19-2006, 06:07 PM
Got the rest of the holes cut on the first tower.

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5306/linearray010tp9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/8379/linearray012pi7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

thylantyr
09-19-2006, 07:23 PM
Make a 3rd, mount it horizontal -> center channel of punishment.

baseballer1100
09-19-2006, 07:29 PM
O that is sweet.

brandontw
09-19-2006, 08:15 PM
Got the rest of the holes cut on the first tower.

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5306/linearray010tp9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/8379/linearray012pi7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
how do you plan on gettting those flush?

ballstothewall
09-19-2006, 08:20 PM
I'm guessing sanding just a little to round the edge over and then they should fall into place, but then I could be wrong too.

IamDeMan
09-19-2006, 09:55 PM
I'm guessing sanding just a little to round the edge over and then they should fall into place, but then I could be wrong too.
Yes, round over the edge and they should walk right in.

brandontw
09-20-2006, 06:32 AM
Yes, round over the edge and they should walk right in.
cool, i wish i would have done that

IamDeMan
03-15-2007, 06:08 PM
Update kind of.

I have no new pics, because I am not any further in constructiion/finishing. They are where they were. I test fit and temporarily mounted all components and brad nailed the back panel very conservatively. I did this just to get an idea of what I am going to end up with.

First up is looks. It is exactly what I wanted n that department. It fills the area designated for them nicely. Yes it is a ***** enlarger, in which case brings me to a perceptual 15" lol. This is one of the reason I chose this design for my first HT build. I like the small footprint and phallic appearance.

They sound alright. I have already realized the flaw of my design. I should have went with more tweeters. I know you're saying WTF??? you has 12 already!! It isn't output that bothers me. It is imaging when seated. This is what makes expensive planars the same height as the mid line, great in this design. When I am standing, it sounds really good. A lot better than my cheap sonys I have been limping with(so yes my reference isn't as good as others.) The crossover needs to be worked with after I get my galaxy mic to analyze what I have now.

My only solution to the imaging problem is a floating mount that swivels down. I was thinking some arm that can tilt holding it from bottom rear bolted to a wall stud. Then a cable system attached near the top rear of the cabinet which us also bolted to wall stud. This way I can have them straight up when having gatherings, then tilt them toward the seats for optimum listening conditions. Anyone have reasons why this isn't a good idea? As it stands now, seated listening is innacceptable.

BTW this design definitely accompishes it's main goal. It is so efficient that it isn't even funny. On my Yamaha with a supposed 110 per channel they get stupid loud. My next project may be a more appropriate HT design and I'll move these to the back patio to **** everyone off if the mood strikes me lol.

req
03-15-2007, 06:34 PM
you could build a MDF (or other applicable wood base) and attach them to it to angle them down a few degrees.

or you could make a small "enclosure" with angled sides (think an acute triangle) and attach it over the existing tweeter holes, and put the tweets off-axis of the mids and aim them down a little?

i dunno, just ideas. im sure nobody else will notice your tweeter stage is too high\low :)

IamDeMan
03-15-2007, 06:39 PM
you could build a MDF (or other applicable wood base) and attach them to it to angle them down a few degrees.

or you could make a small "enclosure" with angled sides (think an acute triangle) and attach it over the existing tweeter holes, and put the tweets off-axis of the mids and aim them down a little?

i dunno, just ideas. im sure nobody else will notice your tweeter stage is too high\low :)

The imaging problem is noticeable even to the clueless. I had my wife listen to it standing up and then sitting and she noticed without coaching. The level of the upper range goes way down and develops an echo like it is way in the distance. It is horrible.

Thanks of ryour ideas and input.

thylantyr
03-16-2007, 02:46 AM
Install more tweeters.

IamDeMan
03-16-2007, 06:45 AM
Install more tweeters.
I did think of that as well. Then I will definitely need a way to attenuate them.

joetama
03-16-2007, 01:53 PM
Well you are making great use of the narrow vertical pattern if you are noticing the issues you are having.

I would say attempt to point them down, but not too much because you could get a lot of 'splatter' off of the floor.

Also, play with the positioning a lot before doing something big like drilling holes or building a mount. You might just be finding a node in the sound.

IamDeMan
03-16-2007, 06:43 PM
Well you are making great use of the narrow vertical pattern if you are noticing the issues you are having.

I would say attempt to point them down, but not too much because you could get a lot of 'splatter' off of the floor.

Also, play with the positioning a lot before doing something big like drilling holes or building a mount. You might just be finding a node in the sound.The floor is tile too :crap:

I have played with them pointed down. This is why I want a system that is adjustable if I mount for an angle. With a swivel mount on bottom and some sort of adjustable cable system up top, I can play with the angle. From just messing around I find it will need around a 10* angle down to achieve acceptable imaging.

dvrmstrng
03-16-2007, 06:46 PM
i know this if off topic...but what would any of you HT guys charge to a set of two nice towers....each with say a 12" a few mids and some tweets

i have a bunch of old sets of floor speakers and im thinking maybe i should sell them here on campus to some people and put some cash towards 1 good pair

JimJ
03-16-2007, 06:55 PM
Name a price and see if people are willing to pay it.

Fast1one
03-16-2007, 08:06 PM
i know this if off topic...but what would any of you HT guys charge to a set of two nice towers....each with say a 12" a few mids and some tweets

i have a bunch of old sets of floor speakers and im thinking maybe i should sell them here on campus to some people and put some cash towards 1 good pairMake your own, its very rewarding...I finished My BIBs about three weeks ago and have been doing some critical listening ever since. They sound very good for three inch speakers. Im the first to build a pair with the Auras....

They go down surprisingly low, 50-60 Hz is clearly audible, and i think thats where the F3 is...

Yes JimJ i beat you to it, I was keeping it under raps...Build your pair as soon as possible, you wont regret it...

dvrmstrng
03-16-2007, 09:21 PM
i would try to build my own as a project but im at school with no tools or anything

JimJ
03-16-2007, 09:56 PM
Make your own, its very rewarding...I finished My BIBs about three weeks ago and have been doing some critical listening ever since. They sound very good for three inch speakers. Im the first to build a pair with the Auras....

They go down surprisingly low, 50-60 Hz is clearly audible, and i think thats where the F3 is...

Yes JimJ i beat you to it, I was keeping it under raps...Build your pair as soon as possible, you wont regret it...

I ordered my 168EZ Sigmas today :D

Fast1one
03-16-2007, 11:14 PM
I ordered my 168EZ Sigmas today :DNICE! Wish I could hear them but you are FAR away lol...I showed my dad the towers and his first reaction (along with my older brother) was "are those tweeters? Why the huge box"

Needless to say they were shocked when I played them. i was shocked as well when i tried them in that living room. Its a pretty large room at 25 by 35 feet and the little Auras that could managed to fill the room with rich, moderately loud sound. I could run these without a sub no problem, Im a bass head though :D Planning to run a budget Horn sub as well...

IamDeMan
10-04-2007, 06:13 PM
Another update without pics. I won't post anymore until the external of the cabinets are done. I have settled on Rhino lining for front fascia while gel coating sides and back. I finished soldering all connections and placed liberal amounts of insulation fill. With the insulation fill the tuning theoretically drops to 65hz(3db down according to BBP).

I did a listen session today with Frampton comes alive. I honestly think this alignment/config mated with my IB sub is top notch for a live album like this. For one it is **** loud off of 100Watts. The sound I get is very complimentary to this recording. I was amazed how well these arrays mate with my IB sub. I don't know whether to credit the arrays or the sub though on the mating. I have the setup crossed over at 80hz both ways and am just blown away for such cheap drivers. Even when played loudly this setup is just phenomenal. These arrays can take much more punishment before collapsing. I don't need more power though because it is plenty loud.

My next update will include final pictures of the finish.

joetama
10-04-2007, 06:50 PM
Holy Bump of old thread...

What are you driving it with to get the 100 watts?

A line array would be very good with that Eric Clapton disk...

IamDeMan
10-04-2007, 07:04 PM
Holy Bump of old thread...

What are you driving it with to get the 100 watts?

A line array would be very good with that Eric Clapton disk...I bump it because I am slow at finishing projects. I always constantly toy with what fork to take when doing them.

It may not be 100 watts. It is a Yamaha unit that "claims" 110 watts. I am sure I get somewhere between 80-100. I may be a bit optimistic though.

EC will be next. Good choice.

BTW this still is in no way a total SQ alignment. I am sure you would agree. I ended up angling the array 5* and it made all the difference I needed without splash. I am so far loving the sound it gives on Live recording though. I did AC/DC Live after Frampton and it was just great. The line array gives a good "at the concert" feel to it.

joetama
10-04-2007, 07:09 PM
I do what I can...

Frampton and Clapton always sound good live....

brandontw
11-05-2007, 06:51 PM
HOLY COW!!!!

Your not done with these yet? lol...

I havent been on these forum for quite a while now, and when i saw this thread up, i got all excited, and thought i was gonna see some finished line arrays looking sexier than mine...

Anyway, keep it updated...

**re-subscribes**

brandontw
11-05-2007, 06:53 PM
By the way, i demand pictures, even if the cabinets arent done yet, if they are operational, then the project is in a stage of completion...

brandontw
01-14-2008, 08:00 PM
Bump.... I demand results dammit!!!

Are these finished yet?

JimJ
01-14-2008, 08:04 PM
He works at my pace, although at least I didn't buy any of the materials for the BIB's until September or so :D

thylantyr
01-15-2008, 05:19 PM
I was able to build the budget array in 3 months. How did I do this? Because
it wasn't made for me originally. It's easier/faster to build for someone else. hehehe..

The stuff I want for myself takes forever as I do more experiments than I do making a
finished product. I still have all the drivers in boxes for the past year for the big project lol ..
years has passed ...... Life events hinder progress so I have to chill for a while.

Take your time.

IamDeMan
01-21-2008, 03:18 PM
HOLY COW!!!!

Your not done with these yet? lol...

I havent been on these forum for quite a while now, and when i saw this thread up, i got all excited, and thought i was gonna see some finished line arrays looking sexier than mine...

Anyway, keep it updated...

**re-subscribes**


By the way, i demand pictures, even if the cabinets arent done yet, if they are operational, then the project is in a stage of completion...


Bump.... I demand results dammit!!!

Are these finished yet?LMAO. I really don't know what makes you think they are sexier in any way. I will not give full on shots until it is done as they. Yes they are operational and completed in that respects.


He works at my pace, although at least I didn't buy any of the materials for the BIB's until September or so :DYes. This is why my logs ****. That and I tend to be lazy about documenting every mundane things I do.


I was able to build the budget array in 3 months. How did I do this? Because
it wasn't made for me originally. It's easier/faster to build for someone else. hehehe..

The stuff I want for myself takes forever as I do more experiments than I do making a
finished product. I still have all the drivers in boxes for the past year for the big project lol ..
years has passed ...... Life events hinder progress so I have to chill for a while.

Take your time.
Thats pretty much it. I hit forks and toil over them until motivation just strikes and I make the decision. Right now my decision is the finish and have been trying many stains. We decided that no stain or coating will look good with our decor. We like things with a bit of industrial edge or modern. So black texture finish is the absolute final decision.

I have made a promise to have them 100&#37; by Super Bowl. For now I will leave you with one picture.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/IamDeMan/nsb.jpg

6 coats of lacquer.

brandontw
01-22-2008, 12:37 PM
LMAO. I really don't know what makes you think they are sexier in any way. I will not give full on shots until it is done as they. Yes they are operational and completed in that respects.

Yes. This is why my logs ****. That and I tend to be lazy about documenting every mundane things I do.


Thats pretty much it. I hit forks and toil over them until motivation just strikes and I make the decision. Right now my decision is the finish and have been trying many stains. We decided that no stain or coating will look good with our decor. We like things with a bit of industrial edge or modern. So black texture finish is the absolute final decision.

I have made a promise to have them 100% by Super Bowl. For now I will leave you with one picture.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/IamDeMan/nsb.jpg

6 coats of lacquer.

You tease...:D

I recently bought a newish oldish psuedo-HD projector for a super low budget home theater setup, ive got it setup half-assed and it looks great.:veryhapp:

Ill try to get everything completed and get some pics up before superbowl too. Although one of my line arrays still isnt stained... that may or may not get done... But i at least got the front of it painted to match the other :)

Pop da Hatch
01-22-2008, 12:52 PM
O my I want to see finished pictures installed in home ;)

IamDeMan
01-25-2008, 07:57 PM
Here is one of them done.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/IamDeMan/mini-linearray006.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/IamDeMan/mini-linearray001.jpg

DBfan187
01-25-2008, 08:01 PM
is that corian?

IamDeMan
01-25-2008, 08:02 PM
Just to run down what all has been done.

The enclosure is tuned around 65hz.
Cones have 6 coats of lacquer
Inside is stuffed with R-13 liberally
Crossover is a simple 12db both ways at 4.5khz.
I have a dual attenuator
The mid drivers have been counter sunk and mounting flanges puttied over

IamDeMan
01-25-2008, 08:03 PM
is that corian?
No they are standard formica. I wasn't going to pay builder prices for Corian or Granite. I will eventually upgrade that myself.

DBfan187
01-25-2008, 08:07 PM
you mean gibraltar? yeah my mom sells all of that stuff for a living. lol

I like your project.

IamDeMan
01-25-2008, 08:14 PM
you mean gibraltar? yeah my mom sells all of that stuff for a living. lol

I like your project.Never heard of Gibraltar. All I know is home builders charge way too much if you deviate from the standards. The only thing I had them do was do Tile throughout(except bedrooms), because I wasn't tiling another ****ing house.

Thanks. They do what they are designed to do, which is be efficient and loud within their focused range. I will do a more suitable HT project later and put these in back patio for parties and such. It was more or less just to waste time and experiment.

IamDeMan
01-25-2008, 08:17 PM
Just looked up Gibraltar. Good lookin stuff. Like Corian but one piece with molded basins. I like it, but I will have to go Granite when I redo it.

iagrdshaka
01-25-2008, 09:43 PM
Here is one of them done.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/IamDeMan/mini-linearray006.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/IamDeMan/mini-linearray001.jpg

looks good :D

BrianChia
01-25-2008, 10:23 PM
how does it sound?

BuddyChrist
01-25-2008, 10:25 PM
argh i had 64 of those nsb's but some crackhead stole them :(

thylantyr
01-26-2008, 06:10 AM
I have 288 NSB's in storage for a rainy day. lol

The NSB project looks good. I'd prefer to see a tweeter array longer, but
that adds to the cost. You should get a high pass filter to keep cone excursion
low which raises the power handling. Those are 5 watt drivers, low excursion.
When you do your listening tests, monitor the cone excursion to make sure it's not
going crazy. A Behringer DCX2496 would probably get you more performance, it has
8th order slopes, great for high passing the NSB's and also great for those small dome
tweeters. Those tweeter can give you more with a steep crossover slope. You can
take that crossover in the 2.5khz range, down from 4.5khz. Your stereo image will
improve alot. DCX has delays. Add a 15mS delay to one channel and you have a small
concert hall effect. Feed the beast some generous power and the dyanmics open up
a lot. My NSB array has been running off two bridged PLX3402's for a few years now,
and the tweeter array has two more PLX's. I'm surprised that I have not blown any
drivers yet and I crank the hell out of the system where the amps are clipping.

My NSB SPL score is > 126dB[c] in room, 12 feet away. The Radio Shack meter is maxed out, lol.
Midrange frequencies are 122dB[c]. This is pretty neat for 4" Pioneer 5 watt TV speakers that cost 49 cents.
Imagine what you can do with better drivers? hehe

This only proves one thing. The line array effect, if exploited properly, just owns, akin to an
army of ants taking down the big elephant.

JimJ
01-26-2008, 01:25 PM
argh i had 64 of those nsb's but some crackhead stole them :(

Probably moved down to Florida and that's his front stage now.

:D

IamDeMan
01-26-2008, 03:27 PM
I have 288 NSB's in storage for a rainy day. lol

The NSB project looks good. I'd prefer to see a tweeter array longer, but
that adds to the cost. You should get a high pass filter to keep cone excursion
low which raises the power handling. Those are 5 watt drivers, low excursion.
When you do your listening tests, monitor the cone excursion to make sure it's not
going crazy. A Behringer DCX2496 would probably get you more performance, it has
8th order slopes, great for high passing the NSB's and also great for those small dome
tweeters. Those tweeter can give you more with a steep crossover slope. You can
take that crossover in the 2.5khz range, down from 4.5khz. Your stereo image will
improve alot. DCX has delays. Add a 15mS delay to one channel and you have a small
concert hall effect. Feed the beast some generous power and the dyanmics open up
a lot. My NSB array has been running off two bridged PLX3402's for a few years now,
and the tweeter array has two more PLX's. I'm surprised that I have not blown any
drivers yet and I crank the hell out of the system where the amps are clipping.

My NSB SPL score is > 126dB[c] in room, 12 feet away. The Radio Shack meter is maxed out, lol.
Midrange frequencies are 122dB[c]. This is pretty neat for 4" Pioneer 5 watt TV speakers that cost 49 cents.
Imagine what you can do with better drivers? hehe

This only proves one thing. The line array effect, if exploited properly, just owns, akin to an
army of ants taking down the big elephant.My yamaha has a XO built in. With the limited power the receiver has they will play with a 60hz setting and blend in great with the sub. Nice score btw. My towers maxed a 112c on my Galaxy.


how does it sound?Well they do everything they are supposed to. Within their focused area they are loud. Not the best SQ, but give a real live feeling. Like being at a concert.


Probably moved down to Florida and that's his front stage now.

:DI loled.

brandontw
01-29-2008, 06:35 PM
Here is one of them done.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/IamDeMan/mini-linearray006.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/IamDeMan/mini-linearray001.jpg


Those look REALLY good dude! You put a lot more effort and man hours into your than i did mine, and it shows bigtime!:)

That looks amazing with the NSB's flush mounted and puttied... did you use Bondo? I really wish I used MDF instead of real wood after seeing these.

I'm sure your sound a lot different than mine, but mine also have a "live" sort of sound to them... I'm not sure what causes that... i guess its just a characteristic of line arrays in general. hows the bass response on those with the ported enclosure. (I went sealed on mine, and they don't get low, but they definitely have kick to them, you could go subless if you had to)

Grat'z on getting one finished, now the hard part is getting the second one done;) -mine still isn't:crazy:

IamDeMan
01-31-2008, 04:26 PM
Those look REALLY good dude! You put a lot more effort and man hours into your than i did mine, and it shows bigtime!:)

That looks amazing with the NSB's flush mounted and puttied... did you use Bondo? I really wish I used MDF instead of real wood after seeing these.

I'm sure your sound a lot different than mine, but mine also have a "live" sort of sound to them... I'm not sure what causes that... i guess its just a characteristic of line arrays in general. hows the bass response on those with the ported enclosure. (I went sealed on mine, and they don't get low, but they definitely have kick to them, you could go subless if you had to)

Grat'z on getting one finished, now the hard part is getting the second one done;) -mine still isn't:crazy:
It isn't MDF. Thats birch ply. I originally thought I was going to do a black gel stain, so I wanted wood. The gel stain didn't make the wood black enough to match with my other pieces, so I settled on fine texture black paint.

You could go subless, but I need a little ore bottom end grunt so I don't. They definitely played down into the 60s as they were designed to. They matchup great with the IB sub crossed at a steep 60.

As far as putty I used elmers wood filler putty, because once again, I thought I would stain. If I thought I was painting from the beginning I honestly would have used a self leveling slow cure epoxy coating then bondo it in. Would have been easier and less time consuming.

brandontw
01-31-2008, 04:56 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot it wasn't MDF -Well anyway the birch ply still came out a lot straighter than my pine boards did.

Glad your fairly happy with em!

I just plugged mine back in recently after a 6 month break from them, for home theater use, and i still like them, but i am somewhat disappointed in them for home theater use. I can quite put my finger on it. I guess its just that "liveish" sound.

They still put a big smile on my face when I crank some music on em though :)

ballstothewall
01-31-2008, 04:59 PM
I still have this itch to build a pair...

brandontw
01-31-2008, 05:03 PM
I still have this itch to build a pair...

Its fun times and good learning experience if nothing else.:cool:

IamDeMan
02-02-2008, 07:33 PM
Both done and in there places.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/IamDeMan/larray1.jpg

DBfan187
02-02-2008, 08:05 PM
You need a projector and a big screen. That tv looks scrawny now. lol What size is it?

IamDeMan
02-02-2008, 09:17 PM
You need a projector and a big screen. That tv looks scrawny now. lol What size is it?
42" Plasma Ambilight.

A large screen and projector would definitely round out the look. I will probably movethe DVD cabinets into another room as well. Problem with a projector it the ceiling fan that the wife insists on having :crap: A 60" Plasma may work good though.

DBfan187
02-02-2008, 09:57 PM
That's 42"? :wow: Those arrays are massive! lol

IamDeMan
02-03-2008, 09:48 AM
That's 42"? :wow: Those arrays are massive! lol
A smidge over 8' tall.

brandontw
02-04-2008, 01:48 PM
Those look awesome dude...

thylantyr
02-04-2008, 02:40 PM
Well they do everything they are supposed to. Within their focused area they are loud. Not the best SQ, but give a real live feeling. Like being at a concert. I loled.

Don't be dissuaded, SQ can be improved.

Some random thoughts;

1. Line array power handling is much higher than a normal speaker.

2. Your reciever is a power bottleck -> My towers maxed a 112c

3. Crossover is a simple 12db both ways at 4.5khz. - this can affect
perception of SQ.

'Calipso's array;
http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/speaker/94.jpg

Same tweeters are yours, IIRC. He uses Sammi midranges each in a PVC tube
to extend the bass. He loves this. He uses analog electronic crossovers and
some amps, I forgot which ones. He swears by the sound.

When I do crossover frequency sweeps with my budget array, but I have PT2
tweeters not domes, same mids as you, I notice the SQ opens up with a lower
crossover point as the tweeters are doing more work. I run my crossover at
1.7khz, 48dB/octave. The $4 dome tweeters are limited and you may be able
to only go down to 2.5khz, but maybe that is enough to get SQ to improve?
I would use a steeper slope, at least 4th order.

When I tested my array with a chipamp DIY amplifier, the array sounded fine,
good enough for the average person to be happy with, but replacing the
low powered amp with a high powered, high headroom, pro amp opened up
a new door to SQ. When I upgraded the amps again and bridged them, it's
mania. The perception of squashed dynamics is gone, the crack of the snare
drum feels real as if the guy is in your room beating on the drum in front of
you.

Digital crossover: I use the delay feature an add 15mS delay to one speaker
channel, to simulate depth as in a 'concert hall effect'. This adds to the SQ.
Some sources may have this ability too.

Do you high pass the NSB's ? Those are nice drivers if you keep them in
a good bandpass. I use a high pass and the settting is determined by
ear and feel based on power and listening mood. For example, the WinISD
model I did was to have a 100hz tune. In theory, a high pass of 100hz is
ideal. But in reality, I could go lower. I was cranking tunes, looking at the NSB
cone movement and sweeping the high pass. I used 48dB/octave setting
so I was able to set the high pass to 65hz as the best fit. This high pass
keeps the bass out and the power handling high.

Stay focused on arrays, they rule.

Brian Owens
02-04-2008, 02:51 PM
What is the center to center spacing on the tweeters? Do you notice any problems in the high frequencies?

Brian

thylantyr
02-04-2008, 04:29 PM
Dome tweeters aren't ideal for line arrays but if you can get CTC to 1.5" or less, it can
work well, people have done it. But, if you did find a dome tweeter that can do 1.5"
CTC, most likely it's small and it's performance is limited, ie Fs is high, which limits the
ability to get great sound at a lower crossover point.

re: (4) AA Avalanche 15's in 11 ft^3 sealed on a QSC PLX3402 (3400 watts RMS). My HT has bass. . .

I have those PLX amplifiers. Check the QSC spec sheet, those amps won't do 3400w rms
for sub duty as that power rating only applies to 1khz tones. I tested mine at 2kw rms,
20hz, 110VAC input, then the amp went into thermal protect shortly. Four woofers + one PLX, expect no more than
500w on each woofer if the wiring is proper. I think a second PLX can be sweeter, buy it used to save some bucks.

IamDeMan
02-05-2008, 08:18 AM
Don't be dissuaded, SQ can be improved.

Some random thoughts;

1. Line array power handling is much higher than a normal speaker.

2. Your reciever is a power bottleck -> My towers maxed a 112c

3. Crossover is a simple 12db both ways at 4.5khz. - this can affect
perception of SQ.

'Calipso's array;
http://home.pacbell.net/lordpk/speaker/94.jpg

Same tweeters are yours, IIRC. He uses Sammi midranges each in a PVC tube
to extend the bass. He loves this. He uses analog electronic crossovers and
some amps, I forgot which ones. He swears by the sound.

When I do crossover frequency sweeps with my budget array, but I have PT2
tweeters not domes, same mids as you, I notice the SQ opens up with a lower
crossover point as the tweeters are doing more work. I run my crossover at
1.7khz, 48dB/octave. The $4 dome tweeters are limited and you may be able
to only go down to 2.5khz, but maybe that is enough to get SQ to improve?
I would use a steeper slope, at least 4th order.

When I tested my array with a chipamp DIY amplifier, the array sounded fine,
good enough for the average person to be happy with, but replacing the
low powered amp with a high powered, high headroom, pro amp opened up
a new door to SQ. When I upgraded the amps again and bridged them, it's
mania. The perception of squashed dynamics is gone, the crack of the snare
drum feels real as if the guy is in your room beating on the drum in front of
you.

Digital crossover: I use the delay feature an add 15mS delay to one speaker
channel, to simulate depth as in a 'concert hall effect'. This adds to the SQ.
Some sources may have this ability too.

Do you high pass the NSB's ? Those are nice drivers if you keep them in
a good bandpass. I use a high pass and the settting is determined by
ear and feel based on power and listening mood. For example, the WinISD
model I did was to have a 100hz tune. In theory, a high pass of 100hz is
ideal. But in reality, I could go lower. I was cranking tunes, looking at the NSB
cone movement and sweeping the high pass. I used 48dB/octave setting
so I was able to set the high pass to 65hz as the best fit. This high pass
keeps the bass out and the power handling high.

Stay focused on arrays, they rule.The mids are high passed at 60hz 12db slope. With the power I have this is good. I can see I will need a steeper slope if getting a real amp. I am not done and knew from the beginning that the XO would be a weak point for me on SQ. I just wanted to get something basic up and running that I could play with and adjust down the road. I am not done with these at all. I do want to try a single driver full range rear load horn setup though to see how the other half lives. How much power with steep XOs are you pushing through your arrays?

IamDeMan
02-05-2008, 08:25 AM
Dome tweeters aren't ideal for line arrays but if you can get CTC to 1.5" or less, it can
work well, people have done it. But, if you did find a dome tweeter that can do 1.5"
CTC, most likely it's small and it's performance is limited, ie Fs is high, which limits the
ability to get great sound at a lower crossover point.

re: (4) AA Avalanche 15's in 11 ft^3 sealed on a QSC PLX3402 (3400 watts RMS). My HT has bass. . .

I have those PLX amplifiers. Check the QSC spec sheet, those amps won't do 3400w rms
for sub duty as that power rating only applies to 1khz tones. I tested mine at 2kw rms,
20hz, 110VAC input, then the amp went into thermal protect shortly. Four woofers + one PLX, expect no more than
500w on each woofer if the wiring is proper. I think a second PLX can be sweeter, buy it used to save some bucks.Exactly. These are 3/4" domes and are good for spacing on arrays, but I don't know how low I can safely take them. Their fs is 1800, so in theory a steeper slope at 3600 shouldn't be out of the question. I just don't know about 2.5k. That seems a bit low for this.

I had contemplated adding more of the same tweeters when I noticed the effects I was getting without a tilt. In the end I decided that if I am going to extend the tweeter line it will be to add ribbons instead. So that will be down the road.

Brian Owens
02-05-2008, 10:27 AM
re: (4) AA Avalanche 15's in 11 ft^3 sealed on a QSC PLX3402 (3400 watts RMS). My HT has bass. . .

I have those PLX amplifiers. Check the QSC spec sheet, those amps won't do 3400w rms
for sub duty as that power rating only applies to 1khz tones. I tested mine at 2kw rms,
20hz, 110VAC input, then the amp went into thermal protect shortly. Four woofers + one PLX, expect no more than
500w on each woofer if the wiring is proper. I think a second PLX can be sweeter, buy it used to save some bucks.

Man I have way more than enough bass without a second amp. . .

The specs I see are:

4 ohms (20 Hz-20 kHz 0.05% THD) - 1100 W

I am running at 2 ohms, so not sure what I am getting. I have them EQ'd pretty flat to 20 Hz, and they are not going to take much more mechanically.

Megalomaniac
02-05-2008, 10:36 AM
Probably moved down to Florida and that's his front stage now.

:D

:laugh: i thought the same thing.


these line arrays look wild. But i rather have a horn setup cause i hate running gobbles of power.

thylantyr
02-05-2008, 01:51 PM
The mids are high passed at 60hz 12db slope.

:)


How much power with steep XOs are you pushing through your arrays?


Universal DVD Player -> Roland Mixer -> DCX2496 [8th order slope] -> four QSC PLX3402 bridged.

Tweeter impedance = 0.8 ohms [option for 3.2 ohms]
Midrange impedance = 2 ohms [option for 8 ohms]

Before this;
It was Adcom 555II stereo mode on tweeters, QSC RMX2450 stereo mode
on the midranges. Works nice, but the PLX setup is a performance booster.

I also tested a 4ch DIY bridged chip amplifier [LM4780], ~120w x 4 and
it works, there is sound, but it can't even come close to the above.

thylantyr
02-05-2008, 01:53 PM
I am running at 2 ohms, so not sure what I am getting.

repost

I tested mine at 2kw rms, 20hz, 110VAC input, then the amp went into thermal protect shortly.

To clarify, the test was 4 ohm bridged, akin to 2 ohm stereo.

For high frequencies, burst test, one buy on the pro forum tested the
bridged PLX3402 at ~5kw... nice... It's an awesome amp for mids and
tweeters, good amp for subs. There is no need to even look at high
end home audio amps. Plus, PLX's are found on the used market often.

People worry about fan noise, then spend $25 on a new 'quiet fan' ... lol

thylantyr
02-05-2008, 02:02 PM
these line arrays look wild. But i rather have a horn setup cause i hate running gobbles of power.

Common thinking in audio says;

Low sensitivity speakers: Need gobbles of power
'Normal' sensitivity speakers: Need 'average' power amps
High sensitivty speakers: Need low power amps

These are generic stereotypes that progagate in the audio world. A simple
rule of thumb like saying. If it rains, don't drive fast. If the weather is hot,
you can driver faster. Don't drive faster than the speed limit.

Who follows the rules? :laugh:

People assume amplifiers are unlimited in headroom. They are very limited.
The type of headroom I refer to is 'clipping headroom' because at some
point during audio playback, the output signal hits it's limit and the dynamic
of that transient is squashed. Squashed dyanmics are boring in sound, dull, lifeless.

Line arrays can be high sensitivity speaker designs where a few watts per
channel can get you good SPL. But the dyamics are squashed. Low powered
amps on horns are also subject to squashed dynamics.

What if you use amplifier with higher clipping headroom interfaced to your
high sensitivity speaker like a line array or horn speaker? The sound is more
life like.

IamDeMan
02-05-2008, 03:05 PM
:laugh: i thought the same thing.


these line arrays look wild. But i rather have a horn setup cause i hate running gobbles of power.
You don't need gobs of power. They are efficient. I'm probably lucky if they see 80RMS each with my receiver and they get too loud for me.

thylantyr
02-05-2008, 04:55 PM
You don't need gobs of power. They are efficient. I'm probably lucky if they see 80RMS each with my receiver and they get too loud for me.

Akin to buying a muscle car with a 800 horse engine ? :laugh:

Take time to tame the beast :cool:

twisztdauthorit
02-05-2008, 06:35 PM
anyone know where i can pick up some cheap nsbs for a project? anyone willing to sell some?

I would love to try a mini line array of some sort.

BrianChia
02-05-2008, 06:52 PM
Pretty sure they are all gone... :(

twisztdauthorit
02-05-2008, 06:54 PM
Pretty sure they are all gone... :(

:crying:

BrianChia
02-05-2008, 07:03 PM
There are some $0.20 tweeters on PE right now though, and $1.00 mids too.

ballstothewall
02-05-2008, 10:28 PM
Common thinking in audio says;

Low sensitivity speakers: Need gobbles of power
'Normal' sensitivity speakers: Need 'average' power amps
High sensitivty speakers: Need low power amps

These are generic stereotypes that progagate in the audio world. A simple
rule of thumb like saying. If it rains, don't drive fast. If the weather is hot,
you can driver faster. Don't drive faster than the speed limit.

Who follows the rules? :laugh:

People assume amplifiers are unlimited in headroom. They are very limited.
The type of headroom I refer to is 'clipping headroom' because at some
point during audio playback, the output signal hits it's limit and the dynamic
of that transient is squashed. Squashed dyanmics are boring in sound, dull, lifeless.

Line arrays can be high sensitivity speaker designs where a few watts per
channel can get you good SPL. But the dyamics are squashed. Low powered
amps on horns are also subject to squashed dynamics.

What if you use amplifier with higher clipping headroom interfaced to your
high sensitivity speaker like a line array or horn speaker? The sound is more
life like.


High powered amps on high eff speakers is where its at. :)

JimJ
02-05-2008, 10:49 PM
Squashed dynamics?

ballstothewall
02-05-2008, 11:04 PM
Squashed dynamics?

Yep, if your amp weighs to much all the dynamics can't get out. :)

BrianChia
02-05-2008, 11:24 PM
That's why you got to put it on spikes. :)

JimJ
02-05-2008, 11:29 PM
Yep, if your amp weighs to much all the dynamics can't get out. :)

:laugh:

I really LOL'ed :)

thylantyr
02-06-2008, 02:36 AM
Squashed dynamics?

Nerdophile terminology - keep up with modern lingo :laugh:

thylantyr
02-06-2008, 02:37 AM
There are some $0.20 tweeters on PE right now though, and $1.00 mids too.


Post some links :)

re: mini line array

They work better big......

Mr T
02-06-2008, 02:46 AM
Beautiful arrays! All this talk about dynamic compression, WHAT dynamic compression???

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78783

;)

IamDeMan
02-06-2008, 08:38 AM
:laugh:

I really LOL'ed :)Between that and the spikes comment, I believe my azz fell clean off.

Brian Owens
02-06-2008, 11:05 AM
I just received (32) of these for my next project:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-301&CFID=1471856&CFTOKEN=94730047

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x24/bkolfo4/295-301m.jpg

Someday I will build a set of LS-9's!!!!

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x24/bkolfo4/LS-9s.jpg

JimJ
02-06-2008, 11:46 AM
Nerdophile terminology - keep up with modern lingo :laugh:

I was disagreeing with your premise :)

thylantyr
02-06-2008, 01:16 PM
I just received (32) of these for my next project:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-301&CFID=1471856&CFTOKEN=94730047

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x24/bkolfo4/295-301m.jpg

Someday I will build a set of LS-9's!!!!

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x24/bkolfo4/LS-9s.jpg

Danny improved his line array designs, sold on AV123
http://av123.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=36&Itemid=37

$6k/pair is a pretty good price for 'store bought'. If this was in a store only, it
would cost double easy, perhaps $20k/pair.

He claims that BG made custom Neo8 drivers for him. He asked them to mod
the existing design to improve some issues. I haven't seen any measurements to
confirm what the mod offers.

For DIY you don't have to follow that recipe. A BG Neo3 tweeter array would
be better, it's just a better tweeter. But because it's small, you need more to
make a big line.

... and the stock BG Neo8 isn't a really great driver.

For tweeter arrays; sorted by price
25 cent - $1 mylars
$4 dome
$35 PT2C planar
$40 Neo3 planar [I would use non PDR]
$60 Neo8 planar
??? Neo8 Danny's custom
$118 Fountek NeoCd2.0 ribbon
... etc ... the list can go on ...

I know someone who did extensive torture tests recently with many drivers
and the Neo3 [no PDR] might be the new winner, in spite that I didn't really
recommend this before. It will cost 2x more than a PT2C array which is pretty
dang nice, but if you want to push the limits higher than PT2, the Neo3 array would be the winner.
It even seems that it has an edge on the more expensive Founteks.

If you don't crank the tunes like crazy, the true ribbons are a proven
winner, they are just delicate drivers, becareful. There are many good Fountek
arrays, but if you want to crank up the tunes hard, the planars are hard to
destroy vs. true ribbons.

thylantyr
02-06-2008, 01:17 PM
I was disagreeing with your premise :)

Squashed dynamics was the word I used instead of clipping. Who here
knows exactly what clipping is? If I say squashed, maybe they can visualize
it better. :laugh:

Brian Owens
02-06-2008, 01:20 PM
Danny improved his line array designs, sold on AV123
http://av123.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=36&Itemid=37

$6k/pair is a pretty good price for 'store bought'. If this was in a store only, it
would cost double easy, perhaps $20k/pair.


$2700 for the kit directly from Danny. . . .

thylantyr
02-06-2008, 01:34 PM
$2700 for the kit directly from Danny. . . .


The kit price is $2,695 for everything (everything but the wood) needed to build out a pair. All is in stock.

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=43853.0

24 mids
18 tweeters

It's not a bad price really.

Lets say you used $30 mids from whatever vendor.
24 x $30 = $720

Lets say you wanted better than LS-9 and used 36 BG Neo3 tweeters @ $40 ea.
$1440

Total $2160.

You need passive crossovers.


You might be able to talk PE into giving you a bigger discount on the
tweeters, maybe $2k for drivers total.

Lets say you found some really nice mids for $20 vs. $30, now
the grand total is the $1750 range for drivers.

Lets say you don't want to be a maniac and the PT2 array is fine
using 16 tweeters and 16 6" mids, that's about $1000.

The DIY range would be $1k - $2k for drivers. Now you need crossovers.
Instead of spending $2700 for LS-9, the money saved can be used to
snake a DCX2496. Get four amp channels. Viola'

There are line arrays using really low cost drivers too, but I think the
above is the sweet spot. Sure, you can go crazier. hehe

These line array speakers aren't that far away for people to build. You are
talking about a totally different audio experience, even if you used cheap
mids and good tweeters. If you get that active crossover setup, you can
really dial it in.

IamDeMan
02-06-2008, 01:54 PM
I just received (32) of these for my next project:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-301&CFID=1471856&CFTOKEN=94730047

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x24/bkolfo4/295-301m.jpg

Someday I will build a set of LS-9's!!!!

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x24/bkolfo4/LS-9s.jpgThat would be ****.

twisztdauthorit
02-06-2008, 04:17 PM
would these even be worth trying a array with for 1$ each ? 15 watts rms
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?PartNumber=289-104&popthanksmessage=1&CFID=20285997&CFTOKEN=90718010

Brian Owens
02-06-2008, 04:33 PM
Just FYI for those considering arrays. You can build the ART Array for around $300:

http://audioroundtable.com/GroupBuild/Projects/

If you call the number listed in the document and talk to Scott at PE, he will give you wholesale prices. . .

Nice array for the money. The design I am building right now started with the ART Array.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x24/bkolfo4/art_array.jpg

thylantyr
02-06-2008, 05:00 PM
Random mids;

$3
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1559

$4
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=289-084

$10
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=299-160

$12
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1643

$14
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=299-429

$15
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=299-428

$15
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=299-426

$15
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1741

$15
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1644

$16
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=844&osCsid=4e23ac7e22007838bb28269d1e9957b6

$16
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1152

$16.5
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1676

$16.5
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1068

$17
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=99

I'd probably choose the ones with paper cones as you can use lacquer to tame any issues
and extend the higher frequency operating range. You can model the bass performance
in WinISD, sealed and/or ported.

thylantyr
02-06-2008, 05:06 PM
would these even be worth trying a array with for 1$ each ? 15 watts rms
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?PartNumber=289-104&popthanksmessage=1&CFID=20285997&CFTOKEN=90718010

Somewhere in cyber, I think I saw someone doing an array with those.
I don't remember. It would be a midrange array, you still need tweeters.
If you just want to experiment with the midrange sound in an array, go for it.
Keep the driver center to center spacing low. The only bummer is this midrange
has Fs = 250hz. You won't get much bass from these. But for $1 each,
you can do some tests. Shipping probably cost you $1 each. hehe

twisztdauthorit
02-06-2008, 07:07 PM
Somewhere in cyber, I think I saw someone doing an array with those.
I don't remember. It would be a midrange array, you still need tweeters.
If you just want to experiment with the midrange sound in an array, go for it.
Keep the driver center to center spacing low. The only bummer is this midrange
has Fs = 250hz. You won't get much bass from these. But for $1 each,
you can do some tests. Shipping probably cost you $1 each. hehe

i sent them an email trying to see if i can get them any cheaper.. if its to much, ill just have to hold off

DBfan187
02-06-2008, 07:20 PM
1st post is from 09-02-2006, 07:53 PM ?


SLACKER!

IamDeMan
02-07-2008, 07:09 AM
1st post is from 09-02-2006, 07:53 PM ?


SLACKER!I've explained my reasoning for the slow process. Now kindly shove off. :p:

DBfan187
02-07-2008, 09:14 AM
procrastinator

IamDeMan
02-07-2008, 03:32 PM
procrastinatorSo many choices so little time :p:

Pop da Hatch
10-14-2008, 04:39 PM
BUMP - didnt want to make a new thread - but was wondering what a tolerable frequency response would be on a line array?

these speakers: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=289-084 will they work? 10 per side.

jdawg
10-14-2008, 04:54 PM
ideally you would want more, like floor to you head.

jdawg
10-14-2008, 04:55 PM
I would try to find more of a full range speaker too