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Beerdrnkr
08-31-2006, 09:51 PM
I want to get very loud and I hear horns can help me do that. I currently have some focals for my frontstage and focals for rear fill but I'm buying some Rainbow Germaniums soon with some rainbow coax's. Would these make my setup louder and not ruin the sq? These are the 2 I'm planning on buying

http://cgi.ebay.com/PAIR-4-5-IN-TITANIUM-HORN-TWEETERS-500-W-FREE-KIT-4060_W0QQitemZ270022267483QQihZ017QQcategoryZ14943 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/5-TITANIUM-HORN-SUPER-TWEETER-800-Watt-FREE-KIT-6650_W0QQitemZ270022265469QQihZ017QQcategoryZ14943 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thanks for your input

heyman421
08-31-2006, 09:59 PM
i wouldn't "add" horns

i'd design a custom setup around them

i wouldn't buy no-name horns, tho, low quality drivers will "honk" and resonate.... not pretty

and the second driver's a bullet, not a true horn

fireball75427
08-31-2006, 10:03 PM
i wouldn't "add" horns

i'd design a custom setup around them

i wouldn't buy no-name horns, tho, low quality drivers will "honk" and resonate.... not pretty

and the second driver's a bullet, not a true horn



**** straight, couldnt say it any better. but it depends on wut ur lookin for and what you would rather have. u want a nice clean sound? or ****** *** quality thats loud? horns are loud but they sound like crap. u want loud add some components, 6x9s wutever ur preference is and hook them to a nice amp. i have 8 speakers with 50 rms into each and it sounds loud and clean.

Beerdrnkr
08-31-2006, 10:10 PM
I definately want loud and clean not just loud. I was thinking about getting the Rainbow Germanium mids as an add-on, I believe they sell em seperately so you don't have to get the whole component set. If I were to go this route would it be ok to throw them in some kick panels? I will place the comps in the factory spots and the seperate mids in kicks and am wondering if it'll cause cancelation issues.

fireball75427
08-31-2006, 10:18 PM
u could put them anywhere u want to really as long as nothing is in the way of the speaker to block the sound from the speaker.

kublkmax
08-31-2006, 10:22 PM
Skip the horns. You are not going to be happy with those that you listed. If you do the Germs comps and a germ mid. you will just have to change the cross over point for the mid in the door so that they play the range of a midbass and use the ones in the kicks as midrange. with good power to those Germs they get **** loud and stay clean. Stay away from the horns.

kublkmax
08-31-2006, 10:23 PM
what amps are you running?

T3mpest
08-31-2006, 10:28 PM
**** straight, couldnt say it any better. but it depends on wut ur lookin for and what you would rather have. u want a nice clean sound? or ****** *** quality thats loud? horns are loud but they sound like crap. u want loud add some components, 6x9s wutever ur preference is and hook them to a nice amp. i have 8 speakers with 50 rms into each and it sounds loud and clean.

Horns DO NOT sound like crap. Tonality is great if you know how to use an EQ, they are very dynamic and image well. Many SQ national champions have used horns in their cars....

Beerdrnkr
08-31-2006, 10:31 PM
Would it be ok to use both as midrange or will it give better SQ all around with a dedicated midbass? Would it also be better to throw the tweeter in the kick panel instead of the factory tweeter location?

kublkmax
08-31-2006, 10:36 PM
Would it be ok to use both as midrange or will it give better SQ all around with a dedicated midbass? Would it also be better to throw the tweeter in the kick panel instead of the factory tweeter location?

putting the tweet in the kick really depends on the install. And personal preference. I personally don't want my tweets in my kicks. As for the horns you can run them with a midrange and tweet it done can be made to sound good. Do you have a processor? You will need one if you are getting this complicated.

fireball75427
08-31-2006, 10:38 PM
Horns DO NOT sound like crap. Tonality is great if you know how to use an EQ, they are very dynamic and image well. Many SQ national champions have used horns in their cars....



its all about preference. every1 will have their own comment about everything. sum ppl will say horns sound great, others will say they ****. my comment is they ****. if u were to compare a horn to a component without using anything like an eq, which will sound better? hands down i would prefer the components

heyman421
08-31-2006, 10:41 PM
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=277-045

mdt37's.....

they're horn loaded, but not true compression drivers

i'm thinking about getting them myself

LoudCrownVic
09-01-2006, 01:09 AM
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=277-045

mdt37's.....

they're horn loaded, but not true compression drivers

i'm thinking about getting them myself

Morel Tweeters are AMAZING! They have a very transparent and mellow sound. Generally very classy tweets. I'd hit it :D

HeatSeeker
09-01-2006, 01:13 AM
its all about preference. every1 will have their own comment about everything. sum ppl will say horns sound great, others will say they ****. my comment is they ****. if u were to compare a horn to a component without using anything like an eq, which will sound better? hands down i would prefer the components

:fyi: jsut about any active setup will sound like *** without any EQing :fyi:

JimJ
09-01-2006, 01:14 AM
if u were to compare a horn to a component without using anything like an eq, which will sound better? hands down i would prefer the components

That's an irrelevant point, the question is whether or not he's willing/able to afford the extra processing to make them perform as they should. HLCD's are work, no question about it, but the results are worth it :) And some people may not like it, sure...

Beerdrnkr
09-01-2006, 05:35 AM
Thanks for all the advice. I actually have a stock deck and am getting an eq but have not decided on which yet.

Beerdrnkr
09-01-2006, 11:30 AM
what amps are you running?

I'll be running a Power Acoustik A600-4HP 4ch. for the coax's and horns/rainbow mids and a Power Acoustik A520-2HP 2ch. for the Rainbow Germanium comps with my 3 Pioneer Premier 12's running off a A3000DB. I know, I know my amps ****, but I'll be replacing them with Audison or US Amps later on along with a TC-3000 15. I've kinda been running low on funds and want this to be my final front stage that I do for awhile. So basically what would you all rather do if it were you, add a set of horns or another Germanium mid? The other thing is that I would rather have both mids running as midrange other than one running as midbass and the other as midrange. Would doing that take a lot away from the overall SQ?

LoudCrownVic
09-01-2006, 11:33 AM
Probably better to spend your money on a nice deck... Having a stock deck is going to kill your sq alot in the first place. Not much good processing equimpment is going to do for a sloppy source unit, imo especially the Ford ones.

Beerdrnkr
09-01-2006, 11:56 AM
I actually have a 2006 Suzuki Grand Vitara now and it sounds pretty decent with my focals, I was also thinking about getting an LC8 depending on how the Germaniums sound.

squeak9798
09-01-2006, 08:49 PM
its all about preference. every1 will have their own comment about everything. sum ppl will say horns sound great, others will say they ****. my comment is they ****.

And I'm going to go ahead and state right now that you have never, ever, heard a set of properly setup horns.

In which case the horns didn't ****...the installation and tuning did.




if u were to compare a horn to a component without using anything like an eq, which will sound better? hands down i would prefer the components

WTF kind of question is that? :rolleyes:

Anything not setup properly will sound bad. I fail to see how you conclusively proved anything other than your idiocy.

squeak9798
09-01-2006, 08:51 PM
I want to get very loud and I hear horns can help me do that. I currently have some focals for my frontstage and focals for rear fill but I'm buying some Rainbow Germaniums soon with some rainbow coax's. Would these make my setup louder and not ruin the sq? These are the 2 I'm planning on buying

http://cgi.ebay.com/PAIR-4-5-IN-TITANIUM-HORN-TWEETERS-500-W-FREE-KIT-4060_W0QQitemZ270022267483QQihZ017QQcategoryZ14943 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/5-TITANIUM-HORN-SUPER-TWEETER-800-Watt-FREE-KIT-6650_W0QQitemZ270022265469QQihZ017QQcategoryZ14943 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thanks for your input

:fyi:

Those aren't "horns"...those are "horn loaded tweeters".

These are horns:
http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/products_page.php?id=cd2&type=horn

T3mpest
09-01-2006, 08:54 PM
And I'm going to go ahead and state right now that you have never, ever, heard a set of properly setup horns.

In which case the horns didn't ****...the installation and tuning did.





WTF kind of question is that? :rolleyes:

Anything not setup properly will sound bad. I fail to see how you conclusively proved anything other than your idiocy.

Horns are known for sounding a bit weird without any EQ'ing, but they are still workable. One member of ECA actually won a SQ comp using horns with no EQ, just level matching and good crossover settings! It is true that for an average installer a set of horns will probably end up sounding worse than components, but that's only because the crossover points on the comps are already set and you aren't having to control the response of the horn diaphram. So yeah, basically what squeak said.....

kublkmax
09-01-2006, 10:05 PM
I would not worry about the horns get a great source unit instead you will be much happier. You are gonna have signal issues running this higher end speakers with a factory head unit. replace the head unit before you spend the money on horns. Also look at some processing. crossover/eq like the audio control dqs or dqsx. If you change your amps you may want to consider looking at Arc or Zapco. Zapco has got a set up that with their processor you don't need rca's which means no noise.

heyman421
09-02-2006, 02:42 AM
Horns are known for sounding a bit weird without any EQ'ing, but they are still workable. One member of ECA actually won a SQ comp using horns with no EQ, just level matching and good crossover settings! It is true that for an average installer a set of horns will probably end up sounding worse than components, but that's only because the crossover points on the comps are already set and you aren't having to control the response of the horn diaphram. So yeah, basically what squeak said.....

i don't know many 'average' installers who do too many compression driver installs

great speakers, and a great install, yield great sound

doesn't matter if it's comp. driver loaded horns, horn loaded tweets, bullets, standard cannon ball tweets, ribbons, planars, woofers, or subs, if you don't know how to install it, it's not going to sound very good

i've never heard horns in a car, but i've heard them in home audio setups, and they're ****ing brilliant. and quite frankly, if squeak says that can sound good in a car, i have absolutely no reason not to believe him, he's one of the most experienced SQ-junkies on this board, and if he's crazy enough to install something that difficult in his car, i'm sure he's crazy enough to take it back out if it didn't sound as good as he says

Beerdrnkr
09-02-2006, 02:41 PM
I think I'm gonna get an LC8 to get a better signal and install the Germs by themselves first and see how they sound. I'll read up a little more on horns and if my setup isn't loud enough then I'll look into getting an eq and some horns or adding a Germ mid.

bri487
09-02-2006, 08:37 PM
I would not worry about the horns get a great source unit instead you will be much happier. You are gonna have signal issues running this higher end speakers with a factory head unit. replace the head unit before you spend the money on horns. Also look at some processing. crossover/eq like the audio control dqs or dqsx. If you change your amps you may want to consider looking at Arc or Zapco. Zapco has got a set up that with their processor you don't need rca's which means no noise.

zapco has the reference dc's that have the dsp built in. all zapco amps as of 06 even the iforce have symbilink inputs.

req
09-02-2006, 09:52 PM
this is a horn setup

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1612396&postcount=104
http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1758287&postcount=117

thought id share :D

squeak9798
09-02-2006, 11:05 PM
Your horns ****.

Your IDQ's ****.

Your install *****.

You ****.







I'm so jealous..... :crying: :bawling: :crying:



Good to see you on the forums again :)

newusername
09-02-2006, 11:15 PM
If you think horns ****, you have never heard a good horn install: period.

Cheers,
Neil

squeak9798
09-02-2006, 11:23 PM
:word:

req
09-02-2006, 11:27 PM
Your horns ****.

Your IDQ's ****.

Your install *****.

You ****.







I'm so jealous..... :crying: :bawling: :crying:



Good to see you on the forums again :)

i love you too squeekinator.

too bad everything is in boxes since im in the navy :(

BUT SOON i will have my ultimate A3's and a sweet h701 to tell it all whos boss. but i doubt ill be using any of it anytime soon until i get a perminate duty station :(

but it will be all taken care of :)

oh yea im in IL right now. if you want to have a get together some weekend who knows ;)

squeak9798
09-02-2006, 11:45 PM
What part if IL ?

Also....if any of that needs a good home... ;)

I have an H701 to treat it all nice :naughty:

req
09-02-2006, 11:56 PM
LAWL

that h701 needs a few friends does it? you can feel free to send it to my closet to hang out with its favorite buddies and wait for its install ;)

but im near tommk90. bout 45 mins north of chicago.

http://www.google.com/maphp?hl=en&q=&ie=UTF8&z=15&om=1

pm me if you are funtimes :)

squeak9798
09-03-2006, 12:02 AM
That'd still be quite a drive.......but next weekend I think me and dave might start working on my kicks if you wanna make the drive :naughty:

rocky 59
09-03-2006, 12:05 AM
hey sqeak send me a price shipped on the h701 to 65020. thats just the processor right?

rocky 59
09-03-2006, 12:06 AM
and req where u at in IL?

req
09-03-2006, 01:03 AM
That'd still be quite a drive.......but next weekend I think me and dave might start working on my kicks if you wanna make the drive :naughty:

well. im in the navy dildoman...

so *I* cant drive anywhere. and i could only do a 6am~9pm galavant.

but if you got dave to help you :rolleyes:

then you dont need MY help :rolleyes:


sheesh. and he isnt selling it sadly. he is a wussman and wont give it up to me. and um. if you readed my post, i have a link to a google mapsite with like, within 100 yards to where im sitting :p:

SATX210
09-03-2006, 02:06 AM
its all about preference. every1 will have their own comment about everything. sum ppl will say horns sound great, others will say they ****. my comment is they ****. if u were to compare a horn to a component without using anything like an eq, which will sound better? hands down i would prefer the components

but if you dont use an eq in your system at all then what the hell do you know about SQ anyways

bri487
09-03-2006, 02:57 AM
well. im in the navy dildoman...

so *I* cant drive anywhere. and i could only do a 6am~9pm galavant.

but if you got dave to help you :rolleyes:

then you dont need MY help :rolleyes:


sheesh. and he isnt selling it sadly. he is a wussman and wont give it up to me. and um. if you readed my post, i have a link to a google mapsite with like, within 100 yards to where im sitting :p:

you at bootcamp right now? isnt one of their bootcamp facilities in that area?

UndercoverPunk
09-03-2006, 02:59 AM
I have REAL horns. They're loud as ****.

Beerdrnkr
09-03-2006, 04:26 AM
If I were to add another Germ mid, (horns might be outta my league right now) could I run both sets as midrange and not have a dedicated midbass or would the overall sq sound like crap if I did that?

squeak9798
09-03-2006, 09:02 AM
hey sqeak send me a price shipped on the h701 to 65020. thats just the processor right?

You can have it when you pry it from my dead, cold hands ;)

It's not for sale. I was just rubbing it in Req's face that I have one :naughty:

squeak9798
09-03-2006, 09:04 AM
If I were to add another Germ mid, (horns might be outta my league right now) could I run both sets as midrange and not have a dedicated midbass or would the overall sq sound like crap if I did that?

People have done it in the past with good results. It will be a relative PITA to setup though...and you will want both speakers located next to each other....either both in the door or both in the kickpanels.

Another thing you could do if you wanted to try active is what's called a 2.5 way setup. You would have two mids per side...one of them playing the full midbass and midrange duties, the other only playing strictly midbass..no midrange. This would help a little bit with the phasing/cancellation issues that might arise in the critical midrange area and leave only a single point source for each side in the midrange area, but give you a little bump in the midbass output due to having both mids playing only those frequencies.

Beerdrnkr
09-03-2006, 01:14 PM
People have done it in the past with good results. It will be a relative PITA to setup though...and you will want both speakers located next to each other....either both in the door or both in the kickpanels.

Another thing you could do if you wanted to try active is what's called a 2.5 way setup. You would have two mids per side...one of them playing the full midbass and midrange duties, the other only playing strictly midbass..no midrange. This would help a little bit with the phasing/cancellation issues that might arise in the critical midrange area and leave only a single point source for each side in the midrange area, but give you a little bump in the midbass output due to having both mids playing only those frequencies.

Thanks for your input squeek. The reason I was hoping to get some horns was because they get very loud and don't take up much room, therefore I wouldn't have to modify my door panels or anything. Could anyone send me a few links to some horns that are nice. I changed my mind again :crap: I think i'll get an LC8 and eq with some horns but they seem a little tough to find on the internet and I'm not really familiar with what brand of horns are good and not too expensive.

squeak9798
09-03-2006, 04:50 PM
If you are looking for relatively cost effective horns, search the classifieds of these two forums for Image Dynamics CD1Pro's:

http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4
http://www.audiogroupforum.com/csforum//forumdisplay.php?f=34


You may be able to find some CD2's for a decent price....but the CD1's will typically be cheaper.

LoudCrownVic
09-04-2006, 12:48 AM
Squeak lives in IL?

FTW!!!

UndercoverPunk
09-04-2006, 02:30 AM
:eyebrow: Don't take up much room? I'd definatly not reccomend the full bodies then, lol. ****ING HUGE!

squeak9798
09-04-2006, 10:04 AM
Squeak lives in IL?

FTW!!!

Nope.

IN ;)

squeak9798
09-04-2006, 10:05 AM
:eyebrow: Don't take up much room? I'd definatly not reccomend the full bodies then, lol. ****ING HUGE!

They are very long....but once installed they don't take up much room :)

Did you ever get your horns EQ'd ?

LoudCrownVic
09-04-2006, 11:24 AM
Nope.

IN ;)

:( :crap: :crying:

We need better people on our team.

UndercoverPunk
09-04-2006, 01:29 PM
They are very long....but once installed they don't take up much room :)

Did you ever get your horns EQ'd ?

Kinda sorta, never got an rta, but every few days I change atleast one half of the bands.

Beerdrnkr
09-04-2006, 03:00 PM
Are there any horns that are round and a not much larger than regular tweets? Those long horns might be a little tough to mount in my car.

T3mpest
09-04-2006, 03:55 PM
You can always try mini-horns. Image dynamics makes a set of mini's for the cd1 and cd2's. You can also sand off part of the outer horn if it's getting in the way. Horns are physically large, but once in place take up no room, nothing else goes below the dash anyway.

req
09-04-2006, 04:01 PM
Are there any horns that are round and a not much larger than regular tweets? Those long horns might be a little tough to mount in my car.

those arent made for a loaded enviornment like a car. the symetrical and small horns (like horn loaded tweeters shown before) are for open air, or large rooms. they simply dont have the right kind of dispersion effects to play in a car. it will get a really weird soundstage. the reason the pros use HLCDs like the waveguides and the image dynamics series, is because they disperse the sound out and to the other side of the car. it just does not work with the little round ones. they are mostly used for home theatre applications. im not saying they are bad or sound bad. they just dont work for the application of the car stereo.

and most of the time, heavy EQing is needed for horns in a car, and an active crossover network, so its quite difficult to get started with horns and go in the right direction too.

:)

T3mpest
09-04-2006, 04:08 PM
yeah, horns tend to have 70% of their sound of axis. Nice for cars where you want to minimize reflections. Everytime I see your door pods I get more and more sad about my terribly designed doors.

Beerdrnkr
09-04-2006, 04:52 PM
Thanks for the help guys. I'm definately going with an extra set of mids (my final decision), I think it'll just be an easier install and easier to tune overall. I'm just throwing a stupid question out here and wondering if anyone has done it. Has anyone ever put coax's in the doors and built kick panels for components?

JimJ
09-04-2006, 04:55 PM
Why would you?

No real point to it...unless you like horrible imaging and staging...

UndercoverPunk
09-04-2006, 05:04 PM
In







Deed!

Beerdrnkr
09-04-2006, 05:06 PM
yeah, that's what I figured. What's a good EQ to run a 3 way setup (germaniums with an extra mid) and coax's in the back? I will also be purchasing an LC8.

UndercoverPunk
09-04-2006, 05:11 PM
yeah, that's what I figured. What's a good EQ to run a 3 way setup (germaniums with an extra mid) and coax's in the back? I will also be purchasing an LC8.


I like my Audiocontrol DQT, I'll like it a WHOLE LOT MORE when I get an external 3 way crossover and I can use it on my WHOLE system instead of just my tweeters.

Beerdrnkr
09-04-2006, 05:21 PM
:crap: Anything around $200 or so

96MaxGLE
09-04-2006, 05:34 PM
I've got a used pair of ID CD1's that haven't had the horn flange trimmed at all. I've also got a pair of IDQ 8's to pair with them. They've been sitting n my closet waiting for amps. I possibly would let the horns go if SQEAK :) could suggest me something to pair the IDQs up with. I'm planning on going active...

squeak9798
09-04-2006, 08:21 PM
I possibly would let the horns go if SQEAK :) could suggest me something to pair the IDQs up with. I'm planning on going active...

CD2's :naughty:

Or, just sell me your IDQ8's ;)

squeak9798
09-04-2006, 08:35 PM
yeah, that's what I figured. What's a good EQ to run a 3 way setup (germaniums with an extra mid) and coax's in the back? I will also be purchasing an LC8.

How many inputs/outputs do you need the EQ to have?

OnYrMrk
09-04-2006, 11:56 PM
Horns DO NOT sound like crap. Tonality is great if you know how to use an EQ, they are very dynamic and image well. Many SQ national champions have used horns in their cars....


too **** lazy to check through this thread for a duplicate post, but, this statement is severely misleading. The horns in question are horn tweeters, the SQ Champions have Horn Loaded Compression Drivers (HLCD's). The speaker is actually a small compressed driver that when coupled with a custom waveguide, produces frequencies that aren't only tied to Tweeters, but to midranges as well. In my previous system, I had a set of ProTech custom HLCD's coupled with dual 7" ProTech Midbass drivers for my front stage. Had a 4ch MRVF-400 V12 amp powering them. Was **** loud, had a pair of EQT's for equalization, and with a fair amount of positioning time, imaged like a sum***** too. Both seats had excellent staging and imaging.

Horn loaded tweeters will do nothing for your staging or imaging, but in answer to your question, they will get loud.

T3mpest
09-05-2006, 02:14 AM
I wasnt' really relpying to the original poster. When someone else chimed in that horns sounded like crap, I assumed he WAS referring to HLCD's.