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View Full Version : Rear Fill: 1 Nice Perk!



MBrock4u
08-29-2006, 11:40 PM
OK, I totally understand why some people on here don't have or like rear fill. Not a problem. As for me, I have a decent size 4 door and carrie people to work with me, anyway , one nice thing about my rear fill is the extra bump i get from the mid-bass. I high pass the rears at 100hz from my head unit, and it add some nice punch to my system. Very complementry to the sub. One guy on here sugested I try that. It woked nicely. Thanks.

zachzchw
08-29-2006, 11:44 PM
Ok.

audiolife
08-30-2006, 04:05 PM
wont your fronts play that?

loserpunk
08-30-2006, 04:22 PM
wont your fronts play that?

haven't you heard, LFE increases as you move towards the rear of the car ;)

audiolife
08-30-2006, 04:28 PM
haven't you heard, LFE increases as you move towards the rear of the car ;)

yuh i should move my kicks back there lmao

3.5Max6spd
08-30-2006, 07:06 PM
If your passengers back there are getting higher range of content intelligibility , cool! If you can hear them from the front seat....not cool.

While I dont believe in rear fill, if its done.... it should be done right.

In a rear fill speaker I'd look into a swivable tweeter to point away from the front of the car (and reducing localization from off axis response) and thus point them toward the actual passenger. Your stage will drift and localization will point to the highest source of sibilance, so you dont want those higher frequencies heard from behind you.

beckSHO
08-30-2006, 07:44 PM
If your passengers back there are getting higher range of content intelligibility , cool! If you can hear them from the front seat....not cool.

While I dont believe in rear fill, if its done.... it should be done right.

In a rear fill speaker I'd look into a swivable tweeter to point away from the front of the car (and reducing localization from off axis response) and thus point them toward the actual passenger. Your stage will drift and localization will point to the highest source of sibilance, so you dont want those higher frequencies heard from behind you.

So pretty much, don't play the high notes with the rears?

FoxPro5
08-30-2006, 07:51 PM
So pretty much, don't play the high notes with the rears?

Basically I think that's what he means. When you go to a concert, you want to listen to the music...not to the speakers. It's all about localization.

Also keep in mind that your rears might actually be closer to your ears than the fronts...I know mine are for sure.

6spdcoupe
08-30-2006, 09:46 PM
Basically I think that's what he means. When you go to a concert, you want to listen to the music...not to the speakers. It's all about localization.

Also keep in mind that your rears might actually be closer to your ears than the fronts...I know mine are for sure.

Thats typically the case unfortunately. Due to most manufacturers utilizing the rear deck for them...being at ear level attentuating them (if possible) is key. Fortunately alot of manufacturers are now using the rear doors, but drawback is that theyre still using the rear deck for some sort of substage. Nissan/Infiniti has been doing this for sometime now ( since 2000). I actually prefer their enbtry level setups rather than the upper BLose ones simply for the sake of having Nothing in the rear deck.

squeak9798
08-30-2006, 09:47 PM
And I'm going to go ahead and guess that you could clearly tell that the extra midbass punch was coming from behind you :)

MBrock4u
08-30-2006, 09:51 PM
Thats exactly right. It looks like your the only one that got that. :)

6spdcoupe
08-30-2006, 09:54 PM
Thats exactly right. It looks like your the only one that got that. :)

THATs not a good thing...

squeak9798
08-30-2006, 09:55 PM
Thats exactly right. It looks like your the only one that got that. :)

That's an extremely bad thing...not a compliment :)

audiolife
08-30-2006, 10:08 PM
hellll yeahhhh! imma get some cameras to face forward and turn muh front seats around and put a tv screen on my steering wheel

3.5Max6spd
08-30-2006, 10:10 PM
Gentlemen , in my earlier post as to consider a swiveling tweeter as part of a requirement for a rear fill speaker I was taking my specific vehicle into account (rear door mounted, low in the door) and failed to consider that most rear mounted speakers are in the rear deck location, ear level, and firing off the rear glass-IMO in this case I would not even attempt to use rear fill whatsoever. It would be nearly impossible for it not to be localizable.

BassAce
08-30-2006, 10:15 PM
OK, I totally understand why some people on here don't have or like rear fill. Not a problem. As for me, I have a decent size 4 door and carrie people to work with me, anyway , one nice thing about my rear fill is the extra bump i get from the mid-bass. I high pass the rears at 100hz from my head unit, and it add some nice punch to my system. Very complementry to the sub. One guy on here sugested I try that. It woked nicely. Thanks.



Rearfill is against my religion, and quite possibly against yours.

heyman421
08-30-2006, 10:57 PM
that sounds like a perk of midbass, and not rear fill

midbass is great, glad you had an opportunity to experience it, most people with plug-and-play factory replacement speaker installs will never know what it sounds like

but move it up front!!!

midbass you notice is midbass you don't want

send it home so it can blend and bring you to tears with it's might and majesty.......

or just sound really ****ing good, whichever you prefer

FoxPro5
08-30-2006, 11:09 PM
Thats typically the case unfortunately. Due to most manufacturers utilizing the rear deck for them...being at ear level attentuating them (if possible) is key. Fortunately alot of manufacturers are now using the rear doors, but drawback is that theyre still using the rear deck for some sort of substage. Nissan/Infiniti has been doing this for sometime now ( since 2000). I actually prefer their enbtry level setups rather than the upper BLose ones simply for the sake of having Nothing in the rear deck.

Yea I was thinking rear doors, not the deck. I know for a fact that my left rear door is closer to my left ear than any other speaker. So without some serious T/A and attenuation, I fail to see the benefit. If the goal is not to hear them, why have them.

I've mentioned RC's Grand National on this topic before. But that's not exactly a rear fill situation as much as it is a custom car audio solution working really really well.

audiolife
08-30-2006, 11:14 PM
Yea I was thinking rear doors, not the deck. I know for a fact that my left rear door is closer to my left ear than any other speaker. So without some serious T/A and attenuation, I fail to see the benefit. If the goal is not to hear them, why have them.

I've mentioned RC's Grand National on this topic before. But that's not exactly a rear fill situation as much as it is a custom car audio solution working really really well.

home of the 3 ft horns:laugh:

MBrock4u
08-31-2006, 04:52 AM
Yes, it is nice to have mid-bass in the rear doors. I see nothing wrong with a little extra bump if it is available. Seems to be about the right mix with the mids from the front stage. If it blends well with the system, just for me, it sounds great.

Duke
08-31-2006, 05:17 AM
Around 120 hz, sound starts to become non-directional, so I'm thinking about crossing my fronts at 120 hz, and putting some bigger speakers in back to handle 120 hz to where my subs pick up around 50ish hz. That would definitely take some stress off the fronts and probably allow them to play louder in their frequency range. Just something I though was relative to this thread. Besides, my "rear" speakers are at floor level and about a half foot behind me.

MBrock4u
08-31-2006, 10:04 AM
Interesting ideal. My front stage is able to be played as loud as needed, or louder, LOL and don't have the stress on them. Just a nice touch of mid-bass is all that is needed.

Duke
08-31-2006, 06:37 PM
Where is Granite City by?

Megalomaniac
08-31-2006, 06:59 PM
so those new infinitis with the speakers in the headrest sound like *****? im just curious i realize you arent supose to have spkers tha close to your head,but by any chance did the tune it just right or somehting?

MBrock4u
08-31-2006, 07:04 PM
Granite City is right by St. Louis.

T3mpest
09-01-2006, 02:19 PM
You still have 1 major issue with installing midbass in the rear deck, stage width. No amount of T/A will make up for the fact you have speakers directly behind you head, it will hurt your stage width. I'd say the rear doors would be better than the rear deck just due to that.

cool9
09-01-2006, 02:25 PM
But how many people can fit decent size midranges in the front? The largest I can use is 4x6 or 4.25 (Polk Momo which I'm adding now). (I have a Sunfire coupe 2-door.) I'm not into subwoofers: don't have the money, space or the desire for the pounding. So I have to use my rears (6x9) to give me some sound.

I want to angle the 6x9s (Infinitys which 'm getting rid of) but someone told me not to do that. Well, the 6x9s reflect off the glass into the ceiling. And sound travels through glass as it does through metal and liquid so I think it would be better if they were angled more towards the front. Don't have much (any) money and I'm over-budget already so I have to make due with what I have.

T3mpest
09-01-2006, 02:54 PM
First thing to remember, subwoofers don't have to "pound". That's all in the installation and you you choose to use them. I've seen HT systems with 4-15's that you wouldn't even know were on, until you turn them off.

MBrock4u
09-01-2006, 06:34 PM
Wow, interesting. Hard to imagine 4 subs not have a tremendous ipact on a system.

audiolife
09-01-2006, 06:38 PM
propperly set up audio systems the sub has an impact i think what t3mpest was getting at is they blended in with the rest of the system without being able to tell there were 4 15's and not being able to point them out due to sound unless they were turned off then all your low end is gone.

springy101
09-01-2006, 06:50 PM
propperly set up audio systems the sub has an impact i think what t3mpest was getting at is they blended in with the rest of the system without being able to tell there were 4 15's and not being able to point them out due to sound unless they were turned off then all your low end is gone.

isnt that what a perfect sq system should be

heyman421
09-01-2006, 06:53 PM
that's how my type-x's were

i had to turn them on and off to tell if they were playing with most music

.....never forgot while listening to rap, tho :)

audiolife
09-01-2006, 07:08 PM
isnt that what a perfect sq system should be

yup thats called linearity but also depends on material used. in old time iasca they used some philharmonic music with a pipe organ. they wanted it nice and smooth until the organ rummbled. lol sounds kinda weird "feeling the organ" but wasnt my disc or rules lol

T3mpest
09-01-2006, 11:11 PM
yeah, if you can reproduce the 16hz fundamental of a pipe organ properly, your definetly going to feel it!

T3mpest
09-01-2006, 11:13 PM
Wow, interesting. Hard to imagine 4 subs not have a tremendous ipact on a system.

You just have to watch how you level match using your gains. More subs doesn't mean it has to be louder, it just has the capability to do so, plus you can get the same volume with less excursion, which can help SQ. It's all in how you use your equipment.

FoxPro5
09-01-2006, 11:59 PM
yeah, if you can reproduce the 16hz fundamental of a pipe organ properly, your definetly going to feel it!

That or the begining of Also sprach Zarathustra ;)

ultimate157
09-02-2006, 02:02 PM
<hijack>

I'm changing my setup to run a CDT CL-61 set of components in the front off a 4 channel amp bridged to 2 channels, with deadening in the doors. Also going to run my Pioneer TS-G1340R (5.25") speakers off the HU for people in the back of my jeep.
</hijack>


edit: Rear fill *****. I'm glad I can't hear my rear 5.25's from the front.

mlstrass
09-02-2006, 11:27 PM
Wow, interesting. Hard to imagine 4 subs not have a tremendous ipact on a system.

My 4 15" Tempests in an IB set up were like that. Blended VERY nicely for music, but lacked impact for HT. I went to 2 very large ported boxes with 2 in each. MUCH better.

I also like rear fill, to each his own. I'm old school when Jensen 6x9's were the pinnacle, and always mounted in the rear deck, so maybe that's why I don't mind it. The "concert" analogy doesn't fly either. I've been to lots of concerts, mostly metal bands and the sound comes from ALL over, especially when sitting in the first few rows.

But for the purists out there here's what I did. Nice front stage that plays very clean, detailed, and loud. And a decent set of comps in the rear deck with a toggle switch on the amp, so I can turn them on when I want to get LOUD :D

Sort of a SQ or SQL set up I guess, depending upon if the rears are on or not. Works for me.

squeak9798
09-02-2006, 11:47 PM
The "concert" analogy doesn't fly either. I've been to lots of concerts, mostly metal bands and the sound comes from ALL over, especially when sitting in the first few rows.

It's a perfect analogy....to where the band is located on the stage and not to where the speakers for the concert might be located ;)

audiolife
09-03-2006, 12:34 AM
also the sound comes from all around because its loud and reflecting all around but last 3 concerts i have been to motley crue and nickleback especially i still could make out the sound stage direction. sure it had a full sound but that was due to the reflections of the sound as it should be. if you want another anology why do you think choirs are grouped together the way they are when they sing?