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benvaldi88
08-29-2006, 01:17 PM
2001 Honda CBR 600 F4i with a Viper pipe


http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/4842/cbrjv4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


:veryhapp: :veryhapp: :veryhapp: :veryhapp: :veryhapp:

2loud4u
08-29-2006, 01:17 PM
nice bike

mannyb18b
08-29-2006, 01:18 PM
Nice, start slow mayne~!

LeofromtheH
08-29-2006, 01:18 PM
vrooom ona yamaha; chromed out elebenhunned:naughty:

benvaldi88
08-29-2006, 01:22 PM
Nice, start slow mayne~!



i started it up last night and it has a nice throaty hum to it :naughty: i'm too scared to go fast on it anytime soon though

j3bus2k3
08-29-2006, 01:23 PM
i started it up last night and it has a nice throaty hum to it :naughty: i'm too scared to go fast on it anytime soon though

As you should be. If theres a day your not alittle scared to open it up, your gonna be up to your eyes in scars...

BTW, Nice choice. Taking the safety courses are we? ;)

benvaldi88
08-29-2006, 01:28 PM
As you should be. If theres a day your not alittle scared to open it up, your gonna be up to your eyes in scars...

BTW, Nice choice. Taking the safety courses are we? ;)



yep! i haven't registered for it yet but i'm gettin on it... i'm keeping the bike at hotcarl's house until we get our lisence, cuz we have our permits so we can go riding with his dad. I'm getting a pretty bad @ss leather jacket for it too, matching CBR jacket!! :cool: going with a HJC helmet as well

*Ace*
08-29-2006, 02:01 PM
Congrats, I got a 04' f4i (same thing as yours, just different subframe). I'm sure you'll be careful on it at first, but it's the timeframe after that you should be worried about. You'll have become comfortable with it finally, and get this false sense of confidence thinking you can push the bike harder than you really can. This is where most people **** up. Just be aware of that i think you'll be good to go. Have fun with it bro http://www.stuntlife.com/forums/images/smilies/12dude.gif

bri487
08-29-2006, 02:04 PM
yep! i haven't registered for it yet but i'm gettin on it... i'm keeping the bike at hotcarl's house until we get our lisence, cuz we have our permits so we can go riding with his dad. I'm getting a pretty bad @ss leather jacket for it too, matching CBR jacket!! :cool: going with a HJC helmet as well


my one advice is, if you are going to put something on your head, go with nothing but the best. and hjc's are not the best. i have been in motorsports for over 10 years, to this day i wont stick anything but a simpson or a bell on my head.

*Ace*
08-29-2006, 02:10 PM
my one advice is, if you are going to put something on your head, go with nothing but the best. and hjc's are not the best. i have been in motorsports for over 10 years, to this day i wont stick anything but a simpson or a bell on my head.
Just because HJC isn't the most pricey doesn't mean he shouldn't get it. The most important thing for a helmet is that it's DOT approved. If it's DOT approved, he's fine. The HJC will protect his head just as well as a Shoei. May not be as comfortable, or may not be as ventilated, but it'll get the job done.

j3bus2k3
08-29-2006, 02:13 PM
Get a helmet thats SNELL approved. ;)

bri487
08-29-2006, 02:14 PM
Just because HJC isn't the most pricey doesn't mean he shouldn't get it. The most important thing for a helmet is that it's DOT approved. If it's DOT approved, he's fine. The HJC will protect his head just as well as a Shoei. May not be as comfortable, or may not be as ventilated, but it'll get the job done.

pretty much any helmet that you buy from a shop will be dot, snell 95,98, or m2000, or m2006 rated. i still wouldnt never stick a bieffe or anything like that on my head over a simpson or bell. quality is so much better. trust me, i have had tons of helmets. if i find pics of mine, i will post them. custom painted simpson speedway shark with the fx package :naughty:

*Ace*
08-29-2006, 02:19 PM
pretty much any helmet that you buy from a shop will be dot, snell 95,98, or m2000, or m2006 rated. i still wouldnt never stick a bieffe or anything like that on my head over a simpson or bell. quality is so much better. trust me, i have had tons of helmets. if i find pics of mine, i will post them. custom painted simpson speedway shark with the fx package :naughty:

Yeah, quality is better, but poor broke *** people like me don't really get the chance to buy them :crying: Also, I'd be warry about SNELL aproved helmets. I heard that they are actually TOO HARD and don't give enough when you get in a crash causing your brain to take more of the blow. That's just what I've heard though :crap:

mannyb18b
08-29-2006, 02:24 PM
Just because HJC isn't the most pricey doesn't mean he shouldn't get it. The most important thing for a helmet is that it's DOT approved. If it's DOT approved, he's fine. The HJC will protect his head just as well as a Shoei. May not be as comfortable, or may not be as ventilated, but it'll get the job done.

Not true. I won't put anything on unless it's proven. Shoei and Arai are what have been on my head, and I won't look back. When I get some more money to spend on a lid I'll even go up into the higher bucks.
One thing I have to say to people who use them being broke as an excuse...

"THERES NO PRICE ON YOUR HEAD"

I was 17 and bought a $450 Shoei, an didn't even really work. I will never regret (sp) it.

bri487
08-29-2006, 02:27 PM
Yeah, quality is better, but poor broke *** people like me don't really get the chance to buy them :crying: Also, I'd be warry about SNELL aproved helmets. I heard that they are actually TOO HARD and don't give enough when you get in a crash causing your brain to take more of the blow. That's just what I've heard though :crap:


thats why all major motorsports use them as the standard :rolleyes: . to me money is no object when protecting my head.

2004 Nationals

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9713/33857039fullvp0.jpg

at the local track
http://shutter12.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/03/004/4F/E6/53/F5/-thde2a6bS5QpjUjxMBNKT8RAdCkl1oA0300.jpg
http://shutter14.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/01/006/5E/A7/CE/A7/cqgLAup93s6D7yRZdB0lMY5x33deZNEk0300.jpg

bri487
08-29-2006, 02:29 PM
Not true. I won't put anything on unless it's proven. Shoei and Arai are what have been on my head, and I won't look back. When I get some more money to spend on a lid I'll even go up into the higher bucks.
One thing I have to say to people who use them being broke as an excuse...

"THERES NO PRICE ON YOUR HEAD"

I was 17 and bought a $450 Shoei, an didn't even really work. I will never regret (sp) it.


exactly. i cant stress that enough. guys that i race with spend 40k on racing, but buy a $250 helmet. doesnt make sense.

*Ace*
08-29-2006, 02:32 PM
Not true. I won't put anything on unless it's proven. Shoei and Arai are what have been on my head, and I won't look back. When I get some more money to spend on a lid I'll even go up into the higher bucks.
One thing I have to say to people who use them being broke as an excuse...

"THERES NO PRICE ON YOUR HEAD"

I was 17 and bought a $450 Shoei, an didn't even really work. I will never regret (sp) it.

What are you talking about? Shoei and HJC are both DOT approved. They went through the same DOT testing. How can one protect you better than the other if they both meet the safety requirements? You could say that the Shoei is a harder, more firm helmet, but that would make it worse since you WANT the helmet to give under impact and absorb as much as the impact as possible so that your brain doesn't. The only thing Shoei will have over the HJC is looks, comfort, and better ventilation. At least this is the case so far in my experiences, and reading from others. Not saying the guy shouldn't get a Shoei or other expensive helmet, just saying that the cheaper ones will protect him just as well. That's the only thing that really matters when it's time to crash.

*Ace*
08-29-2006, 02:36 PM
For Bri487. I'm not trying to say that Shoei or whatever other expensive helmet isn't worth it. I'm just saying that it will PROTECT you no better than any other DOT approved helmet. I'm sure professional racers don't use cheap helmets for a variety of reasons: visor fogging up, ventilation, COMFORT(probably more important than most think when your racing for a living), and not to mention they probably get them for free from sponsors. But there not just solely using them cause the others won't provide sufficent protection.

mannyb18b
08-29-2006, 03:35 PM
yaya, I use to have a Emmick 125 shifter. Fun lil things

mannyb18b
08-29-2006, 03:38 PM
What are you talking about? Shoei and HJC are both DOT approved. They went through the same DOT testing. How can one protect you better than the other if they both meet the safety requirements? You could say that the Shoei is a harder, more firm helmet, but that would make it worse since you WANT the helmet to give under impact and absorb as much as the impact as possible so that your brain doesn't. The only thing Shoei will have over the HJC is looks, comfort, and better ventilation. At least this is the case so far in my experiences, and reading from others. Not saying the guy shouldn't get a Shoei or other expensive helmet, just saying that the cheaper ones will protect him just as well. That's the only thing that really matters when it's time to crash.

Hey guy, DOT is just a min. standard.

Listen I have been invovled in some serious motorsports, and I can see Bri has too. And we both agree on the same thing, and why? experience.
HJC's and whatnot are fine, its just the fact that a Shoe, Arai etc. (there are plenty more, these are jus the pop. ones) WILL protect your head Better. All the reasons you stated are false.

bibby
08-29-2006, 03:39 PM
2001 Honda CBR 600 F4i with a Viper pipe


http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/4842/cbrjv4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


:veryhapp: :veryhapp: :veryhapp: :veryhapp: :veryhapp:
I have no comment untill there is a bigger picture where i can see something other thatn a silver/black/brown/white blob.

benvaldi88
08-29-2006, 04:55 PM
I have no comment untill there is a bigger picture where i can see something other thatn a silver/black/brown/white blob.



I'll get more detailed pics up this weekend hopefully... oh and i decided i'm going to wear a sock on my head for a helmet when i ride :rolleyes:

mannyb18b
08-29-2006, 04:58 PM
I'll get more detailed pics up this weekend hopefully... oh and i decided i'm going to wear a sock on my head for a helmet when i ride :rolleyes:

Sweet! make sure you go out there and try some special K's!!! Youll get em...

bri487
08-29-2006, 05:54 PM
yaya, I use to have a Emmick 125 shifter. Fun lil things

i started on an invader, then went to a few emmicks 3 or 4, then had three trackmagics, now the one in the pic is a cts. not a production chassis, only built, bent, welded by one man, who is a racing fab legend. the only chassis that has an adjustable seat positioning built to it, built all from american chromoly, and the only one that is tig welded. by far the best one i have ever driven, and i have drove just about all of them. oh, and its a 125 as well, swedetech built motor, all brembo brakes including two genuine brembo masters, not those brembo knock offs built by martin that everyone uses. all around the best built, best adjustable chassis, most responsive to changes, and all around the best chassis i have ever drove.

bri487
08-29-2006, 05:56 PM
I'll get more detailed pics up this weekend hopefully... oh and i decided i'm going to wear a sock on my head for a helmet when i ride :rolleyes:

do whatever you choose, i just thought i would give you some direction from an experienced gear head. you know what your head is worth.


oh and to clarify things, its not the hardest helmet shell that makes helmets expensive, its the quality of the inner lining.

mannyb18b
08-29-2006, 05:59 PM
Nice stuff man. I got into motorcycles so I never got real deep into it. My fav. part was betting people in WS6's and such, that I could take them in it. Never lost........

bri487
08-29-2006, 06:02 PM
Nice stuff man. I got into motorcycles so I never got real deep into it. My fav. part was betting people in WS6's and such, that I could take them in it. Never lost........

0-100 in roughly 6 seconds is kind of insane.

mannyb18b
08-29-2006, 06:22 PM
0-100 in roughly 6 seconds is kind of insane.

and back to zero...in what...8?

ballstothewall
08-29-2006, 06:33 PM
Some people just don't realize how much power it takes in a car to play with bikes.

mannyb18b
08-29-2006, 06:39 PM
I made a 550hp 68 camaro on meats look pretty stupid :)

bri487
08-29-2006, 08:31 PM
and back to zero...in what...8?

probably a tick under 8. the stopping power is ridiculous when driving something with 4 wheel disc that weighs 400 lbs with me in it. this thing stops like crazy compared to every other 125 i have driven. my last trackmagic had the exact same brake setup on it, but with a floating rotor, where the cts has a stationary rotor and a full floating caliper mount, on a bearing, flexes with the chassis to avoid brake drag around a corner. anyway, it still stops way harder than the trackmagic with about 65% rear 35% front, which leads me to believe that its in the chassis.

benvaldi88
08-30-2006, 11:42 PM
hopefully picking it up tmrw night!!!

iagrdshaka
08-31-2006, 04:32 AM
2001 Honda CBR 600 F4i with a Viper pipe


http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/4842/cbrjv4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


:veryhapp: :veryhapp: :veryhapp: :veryhapp: :veryhapp:

how good of a deal did you get on it? :naughty:

benvaldi88
09-02-2006, 01:13 AM
how good of a deal did you get on it? :naughty:



$3500 and it only has 5500 miles on it :veryhapp:

*Ace*
09-02-2006, 02:23 AM
^^^ **** you!!! That's a pretty good price if it's in good condition

pitbull12888
09-02-2006, 04:34 PM
i had a gsxr 600 when i was 15 and dad caught me poppin wheelies on it so he sold it.. it was a nice *** bike i wish i had it back

air_odie
09-02-2006, 04:49 PM
my one advice is, if you are going to put something on your head, go with nothing but the best. and hjc's are not the best. i have been in motorsports for over 10 years, to this day i wont stick anything but a simpson or a bell on my head.


I race with arei forced to from my sponser and ID RATHER HAVE AN HJC on my lid.. Ahelmet is only there to do 4 main things ease the impact in a crash not stop it, help aerodynamics out, stop the lovely sudden rain storm from screwin yer riddin tech. and lastly end the bugs life befor it touches eye/head.

HJC, SCHOEI, AGV call it what you want look for one thing on any SNELL 95 thats the ticket to a good start from there its just mines got more feature or mines pretty

just my .02 worthless cents

Good start though, safe, affordable, and easy to fix cant go wrong with that!
Look into gloves, jacket, good boots, and a brain bucket at min everyday gear.


O D I E
current bikes
06 Daytona 675
02 Daytonna 955i (centineal)

Past bikes over 14 others and most sold to get to where I am at, have owned em all from zx's to a 999R and still finding the brits are hard to beat
Its one thing to TRIUMPH over the competion its another to be BIKE OF THE YEAR, in you debut.

bri487
09-02-2006, 07:31 PM
I race with arei forced to from my sponser and ID RATHER HAVE AN HJC on my lid.. Ahelmet is only there to do 4 main things ease the impact in a crash not stop it, help aerodynamics out, stop the lovely sudden rain storm from screwin yer riddin tech. and lastly end the bugs life befor it touches eye/head.

HJC, SCHOEI, AGV call it what you want look for one thing on any SNELL 95 thats the ticket to a good start from there its just mines got more feature or mines pretty
.
:crazy:

snell 95 is a rating that was outdated in 98. snell 98, 2000, and 2006 are newer and improved versions due to harsher requirements. hjc over an arei, wtf is wrong with you?

mannyb18b
09-03-2006, 07:30 PM
Ya seriously man, you make it sound like you have all these years of experience and you have been sponsored in motorsports, maybe you have...

Hey Bri think of it as someone who has been in Car Audio for 15years, and wont run anything but Audiobahn and Rockford....thats how I cope with it...there are just people out there.


P.S the 675 is a swheeeet lil thing.

helotaxi
09-05-2006, 11:12 AM
About the helmet thing, give the Blowin' the Lid Off" article in the June '05 issue of Motorcyclist a read. They did a bunch of objective testing on the actual protection from G-shocks provided by a bunch of helmets in various types of impacts. Their results were pretty conclusive. If the helmet had a Snell rating IT survived better in an impact but allowed MUCH more energy to be delivered to your cranium. Don't know about you, but I don't care how the helmet looks after the crash, it's my nugget that I care about. The helmets that absorbed the most energy, what you want a helmet to do, were "only" DOT rated

They said point blank the a Snell rating was not much more than a selling tool. quote from a person in the helmet making industry from the article "When you build a helmet for this market, meeting the Snell standard is your first, second, third, fourth and fifth concern. You can then start desinging a helmet that's safe."

Their basic conclusion was that the liner material that is supposed to absorb the energy of an impact in Snell rated helmets is so stiff in order to meet Snell standards that it does a poor job of really protecting your head from the actual impacts that you are more likely to encounter in a real accident rather than some 150mph head-first run into a brick wall. The Snell standards are not and have never been based on actual accident data and while they got the industry headed in the direction of standards for helmets (and not just for motorcycles) they do not really mean anything from a protection standpoint.

Best performing helmet was the ZR1 ZRP-1 which is DOT only and outperformed all the Snell helmets by almost 20%.

On a side note, I love Triumphs, too. My Speed Four is sadly in the shop right now ofter hitting a slick spot of pavement in front of my house. Front end washed out at around 10-15 mph and laid it down on the left side. Still waiting on the insurance company to get back to me on the damage. Nothing but a skinned knee for me through the jeans (not even a scuff in the denim). Been thinking about trading it in on a 675...

benvaldi88
09-05-2006, 11:16 AM
^^^ **** you!!! That's a pretty good price if it's in good condition



its in perfect condition, i dated (kinda) the guys daughter who i bought it from :D

benvaldi88
09-05-2006, 11:20 AM
About the helmet thing, give the Blowin' the Lid Off" article in the June '05 issue of Motorcyclist a read. They did a bunch of objective testing on the actual protection from G-shocks provided by a bunch of helmets in various types of impacts. Their results were pretty conclusive. If the helmet had a Snell rating IT survived better in an impact but allowed MUCH more energy to be delivered to your cranium. Don't know about you, but I don't care how the helmet looks after the crash, it's my nugget that I care about. The helmets that absorbed the most energy, what you want a helmet to do, were "only" DOT rated

They said point blank the a Snell rating was not much more than a selling tool. quote from a person in the helmet making industry from the article "When you build a helmet for this market, meeting the Snell standard is your first, second, third, fourth and fifth concern. You can then start desinging a helmet that's safe."

Their basic conclusion was that the liner material that is supposed to absorb the energy of an impact in Snell rated helmets is so stiff in order to meet Snell standards that it does a poor job of really protecting your head from the actual impacts that you are more likely to encounter in a real accident rather than some 150mph head-first run into a brick wall. The Snell standards are not and have never been based on actual accident data and while they got the industry headed in the direction of standards for helmets (and not just for motorcycles) they do not really mean anything from a protection standpoint.

Best performing helmet was the ZR1 ZRP-1 which is DOT only and outperformed all the Snell helmets by almost 20%.

On a side note, I love Triumphs, too. My Speed Four is sadly in the shop right now ofter hitting a slick spot of pavement in front of my house. Front end washed out at around 10-15 mph and laid it down on the left side. Still waiting on the insurance company to get back to me on the damage. Nothing but a skinned knee for me through the jeans (not even a scuff in the denim). Been thinking about trading it in on a 675...




thanks for the info, i'll look into it :thankyou:

bri487
09-05-2006, 01:56 PM
About the helmet thing, give the Blowin' the Lid Off" article in the June '05 issue of Motorcyclist a read. They did a bunch of objective testing on the actual protection from G-shocks provided by a bunch of helmets in various types of impacts. Their results were pretty conclusive. If the helmet had a Snell rating IT survived better in an impact but allowed MUCH more energy to be delivered to your cranium. Don't know about you, but I don't care how the helmet looks after the crash, it's my nugget that I care about. The helmets that absorbed the most energy, what you want a helmet to do, were "only" DOT rated

They said point blank the a Snell rating was not much more than a selling tool. quote from a person in the helmet making industry from the article "When you build a helmet for this market, meeting the Snell standard is your first, second, third, fourth and fifth concern. You can then start desinging a helmet that's safe."

Their basic conclusion was that the liner material that is supposed to absorb the energy of an impact in Snell rated helmets is so stiff in order to meet Snell standards that it does a poor job of really protecting your head from the actual impacts that you are more likely to encounter in a real accident rather than some 150mph head-first run into a brick wall. The Snell standards are not and have never been based on actual accident data and while they got the industry headed in the direction of standards for helmets (and not just for motorcycles) they do not really mean anything from a protection standpoint.

Best performing helmet was the ZR1 ZRP-1 which is DOT only and outperformed all the Snell helmets by almost 20%.

On a side note, I love Triumphs, too. My Speed Four is sadly in the shop right now ofter hitting a slick spot of pavement in front of my house. Front end washed out at around 10-15 mph and laid it down on the left side. Still waiting on the insurance company to get back to me on the damage. Nothing but a skinned knee for me through the jeans (not even a scuff in the denim). Been thinking about trading it in on a 675...

so i guess nascar, F1, IRL all get sold on a "selling tool". they have the resources to test and the funds to get whatever.

helotaxi
09-05-2006, 10:57 PM
The type of impact seen in a wreck in NASCAR is totally different than what is typically seen in more than 99% of street motorcycle accidents. If you want to buy your street MC helmet based on the sub-1% of accidents (and usually head injuries are not your only concern in that 1% either) that have been studied and just take your chances with the most likely kind, then go right ahead. It's called getting the right tool for the job. I ride a motorcycle on the street and wear the helmet that protects me best against the greatest threat in my situation. If I was racing F-1 or CART or NASCAR I would get a helmet that is best suited for that. In that case it would probably be a Snell. Since I'm not, I don't care what is best for that situation and I don't base my purchase on what they use.

Street motorcycle accidents (according to numerous independent studies) almost never (less than 1%) involve a head impact more substantial than a fall from 7-8 feet. In those very few (1 out of more than 1000 accidents), the rider had other fatal injuries as well. Even if the helmet had provided perfect protection, read "no head injury at all," he still would have died. A Snell rated helmet will provide minimal protection in the street MC type impact because the liner material is to firm. It will not absorb much of the force at all. The DOT standard actually allows for a softer helmet that provides better energy absorbtion with lower energy impacts.

You go ahead and buy the helmet that provides the "best" protection for a wreck that you will never get into. I'll buy the helmet that protects me from the one that I am more likely to get into.

The magazine didn't have an axe to grind and neither did any of the people interviewed. Dr Hurt was consulted and basically wrote off the Snell rating for MC helmets. So did a former chairman of the Snell Memorial Foundation. As far as a street motorcycle helmet is concerned, the numbers used to quantify the Snell rating are totally arbitrary and have no real world basis. Again would you rather have a helmet that is superior because its marketing says so or one that actually protects your head better? More expensive may mean more comfortable and more aerodynamic and prettier, but that is all and in many cases (per an independent test that Motorcyclist lost a lot of advertising over, mind you) it means less real world protection.

bri487
09-06-2006, 02:24 AM
The type of impact seen in a wreck in NASCAR is totally different than what is typically seen in more than 99% of street motorcycle accidents. If you want to buy your street MC helmet based on the sub-1% of accidents (and usually head injuries are not your only concern in that 1% either) that have been studied and just take your chances with the most likely kind, then go right ahead. It's called getting the right tool for the job. I ride a motorcycle on the street and wear the helmet that protects me best against the greatest threat in my situation. If I was racing F-1 or CART or NASCAR I would get a helmet that is best suited for that. In that case it would probably be a Snell. Since I'm not, I don't care what is best for that situation and I don't base my purchase on what they use.

Street motorcycle accidents (according to numerous independent studies) almost never (less than 1%) involve a head impact more substantial than a fall from 7-8 feet. In those very few (1 out of more than 1000 accidents), the rider had other fatal injuries as well. Even if the helmet had provided perfect protection, read "no head injury at all," he still would have died. A Snell rated helmet will provide minimal protection in the street MC type impact because the liner material is to firm. It will not absorb much of the force at all. The DOT standard actually allows for a softer helmet that provides better energy absorbtion with lower energy impacts.

You go ahead and buy the helmet that provides the "best" protection for a wreck that you will never get into. I'll buy the helmet that protects me from the one that I am more likely to get into.

The magazine didn't have an axe to grind and neither did any of the people interviewed. Dr Hurt was consulted and basically wrote off the Snell rating for MC helmets. So did a former chairman of the Snell Memorial Foundation. As far as a street motorcycle helmet is concerned, the numbers used to quantify the Snell rating are totally arbitrary and have no real world basis. Again would you rather have a helmet that is superior because its marketing says so or one that actually protects your head better? More expensive may mean more comfortable and more aerodynamic and prettier, but that is all and in many cases (per an independent test that Motorcyclist lost a lot of advertising over, mind you) it means less real world protection.

believe what you want. basing your entire belief on a motorcycle magazine is kind of ehh. we all know how accurate a bunch of journalists are, especially in magazines where advertisments are the direct cause of their bias. i highly doubt that the multi million dollar racing teams and leagues base their helmet choice/standards on a rating that is just a selling gimmick and according to you has no real world basis.

helotaxi
09-06-2006, 10:28 PM
believe what you want. basing your entire belief on a motorcycle magazine is kind of ehh. we all know how accurate a bunch of journalists are, especially in magazines where advertisments are the direct cause of their bias. i highly doubt that the multi million dollar racing teams and leagues base their helmet choice/standards on a rating that is just a selling gimmick and according to you has no real world basis.

You're not listening to me...

For a MOTORCYCLE ridden on the STREET, a Snell rated helmet is not the best idea. For AUTO RACING it makes perfect sense. There is a HUGE difference between the two in case you didn't know. If you would actually look at the data from the Hurt report and maybe even read the article I mentioned rather that just saying blindly that "these guys use Snell helmets so they must be the best" you just might understand.

Like I said, Motorcyclist pissed a lot of companies off and lost advertising solely because of this article. Sounds like they're sellouts to the advertisers to me. A Snell rating looks superior on paper and typically gets the reaction that you are giving. That the Snell standard is not based on actual injury thresholds is lost on most people. That the criteria for testing for certification is not based on any accident data and totally inconsistent with actual accident data doesn't matter. People simply see further "rating" beyond DOT and instantly think that it must be better for them. THAT is selling out to advertising. Ignoring facts based solely on a "rating."

bri487
09-07-2006, 12:25 AM
You're not listening to me...

For a MOTORCYCLE ridden on the STREET, a Snell rated helmet is not the best idea. For AUTO RACING it makes perfect sense. There is a HUGE difference between the two in case you didn't know. If you would actually look at the data from the Hurt report and maybe even read the article I mentioned rather that just saying blindly that "these guys use Snell helmets so they must be the best" you just might understand.

Like I said, Motorcyclist pissed a lot of companies off and lost advertising solely because of this article. Sounds like they're sellouts to the advertisers to me. A Snell rating looks superior on paper and typically gets the reaction that you are giving. That the Snell standard is not based on actual injury thresholds is lost on most people. That the criteria for testing for certification is not based on any accident data and totally inconsistent with actual accident data doesn't matter. People simply see further "rating" beyond DOT and instantly think that it must be better for them. THAT is selling out to advertising. Ignoring facts based solely on a "rating."

you are pretty repetitive. impact is impact no matter what you are driving/riding. force put forth on ones head is measured the same no matter if you fall off of a motorcycle at 40 mph or hit a wall at 180 mph in a car. the helmet soley protects an individuals head from impact. you said it yourself, the magazine companies are pissing people off and losing them as advertisings, so naturally they are going to be baised towards those that continue to support them.

bri487
09-07-2006, 12:33 AM
oh, and check this out. click on testing. http://www.smf.org/

mannyb18b
09-07-2006, 12:44 AM
and also, I dont even really look at all the ratings when I purchase a helmet. I inspect the **** out of it..and solely on looks and feel, I found the lids me and Bri are talking about to be far superior.

Even in just weight alone, HJC's are f'n heavy. screw that.

bri487
09-07-2006, 03:30 PM
and also, I dont even really look at all the ratings when I purchase a helmet. I inspect the **** out of it..and solely on looks and feel, I found the lids me and Bri are talking about to be far superior.

Even in just weight alone, HJC's are f'n heavy. screw that.

and a quality helmet is pretty stable on your head, it doesnt wobble at higher speeds. and if your helmet doesnt have the R&D put into it, they have the tendency to lift as well at higher speeds.

helotaxi
09-07-2006, 07:38 PM
you are pretty repetitive. impact is impact no matter what you are driving/riding. force put forth on ones head is measured the same no matter if you fall off of a motorcycle at 40 mph or hit a wall at 180 mph in a car. the helmet soley protects an individuals head from impact. you said it yourself, the magazine companies are pissing people off and losing them as advertisings, so naturally they are going to be baised towards those that continue to support them.

It is apparent from your post that you do not understand elastic collisions. Impact is not impact. If the impact is not severe enough for the "padding" in the helmet to give and absorb the impact then all the energy is transferred to your head. If the padding is softer, it absorbs lesser impacts better. Actual studies of street motorcycle accidents have shown that all but a statistically insignificant number of street motorcycle accidents fall into the "minor head impact" category. Snell helmets are designed to "protect" against severe head impacts. Since helmets are designed specifically with passing Snell in mind because of the perception, such as the one that you seem to stick so blindly to, that if it isn't Snell rated it isn't any good, the helmet liner is built specifically to pass the Snell rating test, not to protect your head. The impacts to the helmet in the Snell test are way beyond what is encountered in a street accident and consist ot two severe impacts when only one is ever really encountered. As such the liner is made way too dense in order to survive the second hit. The allowable transferred G's are also way beyond the threshold of serious debilitating injury. Basically the rating has no merit. Not only is the impact to strong, but the energy transferred to your head is still enough to really mess you up.

Now apply a more realistic test such as the COST 327 (soon to be the new European standard) and the Snell helmet fails miserably. Why? Because the ECE standard places its priority on delivering less energy to the head rather than increasing the strength of the blow that can be resisted while still allowing serious injury. Manufaturers that make Snell rated helmets don't sell the same models overseas because they would not be legal helmets. They are too hard.

Believe what you want. But if you did some research you would find some serious flaws in the Snell rating.

bri487
09-07-2006, 11:02 PM
It is apparent from your post that you do not understand elastic collisions. Impact is not impact. If the impact is not severe enough for the "padding" in the helmet to give and absorb the impact then all the energy is transferred to your head. If the padding is softer, it absorbs lesser impacts better. Actual studies of street motorcycle accidents have shown that all but a statistically insignificant number of street motorcycle accidents fall into the "minor head impact" category. Snell helmets are designed to "protect" against severe head impacts. Since helmets are designed specifically with passing Snell in mind because of the perception, such as the one that you seem to stick so blindly to, that if it isn't Snell rated it isn't any good, the helmet liner is built specifically to pass the Snell rating test, not to protect your head. The impacts to the helmet in the Snell test are way beyond what is encountered in a street accident and consist ot two severe impacts when only one is ever really encountered. As such the liner is made way too dense in order to survive the second hit. The allowable transferred G's are also way beyond the threshold of serious debilitating injury. Basically the rating has no merit. Not only is the impact to strong, but the energy transferred to your head is still enough to really mess you up.

Now apply a more realistic test such as the COST 327 (soon to be the new European standard) and the Snell helmet fails miserably. Why? Because the ECE standard places its priority on delivering less energy to the head rather than increasing the strength of the blow that can be resisted while still allowing serious injury. Manufaturers that make Snell rated helmets don't sell the same models overseas because they would not be legal helmets. They are too hard.

Believe what you want. But if you did some research you would find some serious flaws in the Snell rating.

believe me, before you jump on a shifter kart that is capabale of 135 mph and race it wheel to wheel with 20 other guys, you do some research on your safety gear. the governing association makes our standards for our safety equipment yearly, and even go as far as checking it ever single race during the techinical safety inspection of your kart.

if snell rated helmets, in which they have a motorcycle rating for guess what, motorcycle helmets, is too hard, then explain to me that if you drop it, why does the inner liner get damaged? and for motorsports, take nascar for example(or a fully enclosed car), the impact for which helmet is rated (motorsports) would not be as severe (generally speaking) as coming off of a motorcycle at 150mph and letting your head break your fall.

flamed_subage
09-07-2006, 11:08 PM
RicEr BikEs aRe Like RicErs CarS..


JuNk..Get A Real BiKe, No, NoT a HardlY DavIdSOn, TrIumPH FTW. aND tHEn bE a ReAL mAn.


RoCkeT III OwNs All YoUr PuNk ASSes

CBRworm
09-08-2006, 03:14 PM
Congrats on the bike. I had a red/black one. Great bike.

whoever has the Cart, I had a tony cart a while ago - lots of fun. Had to go to miami or jacksonville to ride it though, ended up selling it to buy another bike.

As far as the helmets go, I roadraced for about 8 years and broke a few helmets. I never hurt my head - the helmets did their job. I personally like Shoei and Arai. The important thing is that you wear a real helmet, not a brain bucket.

Down here in FL there is no helmet law. Many people die from very minor crashes that they would have otherwise walked away.

I hit the ground one time on the street at about 17 mph. Someone pulled out in front of me, I slowed down as much as I could before impact. I jumped off the bike right before it hit the car, literaly 15-17 mph. My shoei X-SP helmet looked like an easter egg. Totally collapsed the area over my right eye and scraped up the face sheild. Other than some roadrash on my arm and the palms of my hands - no injury. Had I not been wearing the helmet, my head would have looked like a crushed easter egg.

More than once on the track I have smacked the back of my helmet on the track. Each time the helmet sacrificed itself and saved my head. Luckily I never got run over.

bri487
09-08-2006, 05:11 PM
Congrats on the bike. I had a red/black one. Great bike.

whoever has the Cart, I had a tony cart a while ago - lots of fun. Had to go to miami or jacksonville to ride it though, ended up selling it to buy another bike.

As far as the helmets go, I roadraced for about 8 years and broke a few helmets. I never hurt my head - the helmets did their job. I personally like Shoei and Arai. The important thing is that you wear a real helmet, not a brain bucket.

Down here in FL there is no helmet law. Many people die from very minor crashes that they would have otherwise walked away.

I hit the ground one time on the street at about 17 mph. Someone pulled out in front of me, I slowed down as much as I could before impact. I jumped off the bike right before it hit the car, literaly 15-17 mph. My shoei X-SP helmet looked like an easter egg. Totally collapsed the area over my right eye and scraped up the face sheild. Other than some roadrash on my arm and the palms of my hands - no injury. Had I not been wearing the helmet, my head would have looked like a crushed easter egg.

More than once on the track I have smacked the back of my helmet on the track. Each time the helmet sacrificed itself and saved my head. Luckily I never got run over.

i drove a brand new tony 125 shifter about two months ago, cant say that i liked it. not for my style of driving. i am on a cts now, not many people know of them because they arent mass produced but hey are definitly the best thing i have ever driven, and definitly the best quality craftsmanship i have ever seen. i have been owned 1 invader, 4 emmicks, 4 trackmagics, and now this cts, but i have just about driven them all.

helotaxi
09-09-2006, 07:50 AM
believe me, before you jump on a shifter kart that is capabale of 135 mph and race it wheel to wheel with 20 other guys, you do some research on your safety gear. the governing association makes our standards for our safety equipment yearly, and even go as far as checking it ever single race during the techinical safety inspection of your kart.How did you go about doing your research? Did you just accept that good enough for Snell=good enough for you or did you actually go to the trouble and expense of destroying a bunch of different helmets under circumstances simulating actual crashes in seeing which ones delivered the least amount of energy to the head? I'm not saying that Snell rated helmets aren't good helmets in lots of ways. The top of the line helmets sold in the US are all Snell rated and that is exactly because of people thinking along the same lines as you. The makers know that becuase of the aura surrounding the Snell rating in the US consumers won't buy their helmets at a premium price unless the little sticker was there.


if snell rated helmets, in which they have a motorcycle rating for guess what, motorcycle helmets, is too hard, then explain to me that if you drop it, why does the inner liner get damaged?One has nothing to do with the other.
and for motorsports, take nascar for example(or a fully enclosed car), the impact for which helmet is rated (motorsports) would not be as severe (generally speaking) as coming off of a motorcycle at 150mph and letting your head break your fall.According to all the studies done on motorcycle accidents, the severity of the impact actually has almost nothing to do with the speed the bike is traveling at the time of the accident. There are two component vectors invloved and the pavement that your head hits the vast majority of the time is only countering one of those vectors: the gravity vector. The impact only has to do with how much of your velocity is headed straight down. That is dictated by how high you were when you started to fall, not how fast you were traveling horizontally. Most any helmet will do a great job of protecting your cranium from road rash since that is a purely abrasive type injury. Combine that with the fact that in the 3 major scientific studies conducted world-wide the average accident speed was on the order of 25 MPH. If you hit a solid object head on at much of any speed, no helmet in the world is going to save you because you will still die from severe injury to the rest of your body, so why test a motorcycle helmet using an impact of that severity? That is what the Snell standard does. Not only that, the allowable force transmitted to the head is an arbitrary figure that is WAY beyond the threshold of injury.

http://www.helmets.org/whatneed.htm

That is a much more informative read than the SMF website.

"There is a second thread in the seemingly endless discussion of g thresholds: concussion. The vast majority of consumers assume that a helmet should prevent concussion in even the heaviest hits, and that if the helmet protects against severe blows it must surely be easily protective in lesser ones. But in fact the helmets built to our standards are in many cases too hard to protect against a mild concussion in either a low speed hit where foam fails to crush or a much harder hit where clinically evident permanent injury is avoided, but a lesser concussion still results even though the helmet has not crushed completely and bottomed out."

That's an excert from that site that states exactly what I've been saying and you've been arguing against. Several studies have defined the vastly ovewhelming majority of motorcycle crashes as a low speed impacts putting the above into context. If you are going to wear protective gear to mitigate inury in the event of a mishap, why focus your protection around a type accident that is a statistical anomoly at the expense of a the type most likely to occur? The Snell standard only considers the anomoly.

I'm not talking about your race gear. And one type helmet does not fit all applications.

BTW, I found a link to the article I mentioned earlier.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/gearbox/motorcycle_helmet_review/

Looks like advertised fueled propaganda to me :rolleyes:

bri487
09-09-2006, 02:20 PM
you really need to stop listening to biased opinions and accpet the fact that snell is the most respected rating, and that is for a reason.

helotaxi
09-09-2006, 04:40 PM
you really need to stop listening to biased opinions and accpet the fact that snell is the most respected rating, and that is for a reason.

It's the most respected rating simply because for a long time it was the only one and as such became known. They spent a lot of money to establish their name and charge companies per helmet made to certify them. Non-profit or not, Snell is a business.

Being well known and even respected doesn't put one above scrutiny. Snell has not done anything appreciable with their standard since '85. Technology is out there to make a much safer helmet but until ratings actually require progress, there is no incentive for companies to improve their designs. Snell is in the position because of their name and reputation to actually get companies to make better helmets that make use of the newer technologies, but they haven't. If they were truly interested in bringing the safest helmets to market as the claim every other sentence on their website and in all their literature, why haven't they made their standard more stringent in regards to allowable energy transfered to the head? Why? Because they have most of the masses, such as yourself, convinced that they are the end all be all of safety certifications and that they really are doing something productive. 20 years ago they were doing good. That they haven't made the requirements for certification more stringent in over 20yrs is while continuing to toot their own horn on the good they are doing is irresponsible at best.

I've done research. Every source I've found has said one of two things: they've either quoted Snell lit. verbatim (basically, "we're the best because we say so") or they've actually explained why, using real data, the Snell rating is insufficient and outdated. The former are usually helmet companies that sell Snell certified helmets, the latter are usually safety organiztions and/or independant research labs that aren't trying to sell anything but actually educate people. I wonder who's giving the biased opinion?

bri487
09-10-2006, 02:50 PM
It's the most respected rating simply because for a long time it was the only one and as such became known. They spent a lot of money to establish their name and charge companies per helmet made to certify them. Non-profit or not, Snell is a business.

Being well known and even respected doesn't put one above scrutiny. Snell has not done anything appreciable with their standard since '85. Technology is out there to make a much safer helmet but until ratings actually require progress, there is no incentive for companies to improve their designs. Snell is in the position because of their name and reputation to actually get companies to make better helmets that make use of the newer technologies, but they haven't. If they were truly interested in bringing the safest helmets to market as the claim every other sentence on their website and in all their literature, why haven't they made their standard more stringent in regards to allowable energy transfered to the head? Why? Because they have most of the masses, such as yourself, convinced that they are the end all be all of safety certifications and that they really are doing something productive. 20 years ago they were doing good. That they haven't made the requirements for certification more stringent in over 20yrs is while continuing to toot their own horn on the good they are doing is irresponsible at best.

I've done research. Every source I've found has said one of two things: they've either quoted Snell lit. verbatim (basically, "we're the best because we say so") or they've actually explained why, using real data, the Snell rating is insufficient and outdated. The former are usually helmet companies that sell Snell certified helmets, the latter are usually safety organiztions and/or independant research labs that aren't trying to sell anything but actually educate people. I wonder who's giving the biased opinion?

so if they are outdated and dont update their requirements, why do major racing organizations still go by their ratings for their standards? also, why wouldnt a snell SA90 or a SA95 helmet be accepted today by those organizations if they are the same as a SA2000 which is still accepted or a SA2005 which is the most current?

Beat_Dominator
09-10-2006, 02:53 PM
Helotaxi is right. That article was awesome.

bri487
09-10-2006, 02:56 PM
Helotaxi is right. That article was awesome.

listen to the people that actually wear the things on their heads. mags are biased. just read ca&e and you will see how much influence a full page ad has.

Beat_Dominator
09-10-2006, 02:57 PM
listen to the people that actually wear the things on their heads. mags are biased. just read ca&e and you will see how much influence a full page ad has.

Wear them.... crash them into the ground. Big difference :)

azbass
09-10-2006, 03:02 PM
pwnt

bri487
09-10-2006, 03:03 PM
Wear them.... crash them into the ground. Big difference :)

you cant tell me that you have been air lifted from a track before or taken away in an ambulance. listen to the guy that has been through the scary stuff.

RedDawn22
09-10-2006, 03:06 PM
i started it up last night and it has a nice throaty hum to it :naughty: i'm too scared to go fast on it anytime soon though

Nice, 01' you prolly got a decent deal on it too.

Invest in a 2-day basic rider course, you won't regret it. The skills/tips I learned saved my arse 2x's so far. You will stay calm in danger/emergencies, which is not a matter of IF, but WHEN.

FoxPro5
09-10-2006, 03:13 PM
Nice bike. But I think I'd rather have one of these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdkEV-t9jg0&search=topgear

RedDawn22
09-10-2006, 04:11 PM
Nice bike. But I think I'd rather have one of these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdkEV-t9jg0&search=topgear

That's still a cage though. :rolleyes:

helotaxi
09-12-2006, 10:55 PM
so if they are outdated and dont update their requirements, why do major racing organizations still go by their ratings for their standards? also, why wouldnt a snell SA90 or a SA95 helmet be accepted today by those organizations if they are the same as a SA2000 which is still accepted or a SA2005 which is the most current?

Because if the helmet is rated with a standard that is 5 years or more old, then the helmet is that old as well. The foam in the helmet deteriorates with time and has to be replaced. Making sure that the helmet is certified to the newest standard insures hat the helmet is not older than 5 years.

Do your research. You're blindly going with what the racing orgs have to say. If the racing org were to estalish their own standards for a helmet, rather than just accepting an already established standard, they would open themselves up to lawsuits in the event of injury if one of their certified helmets was involved. Since the Snell rating is the only one out there and the racing orgs are not going to accept the liability of establishing their own standards, they have no choice but to accept the Snell rating. That still doesn't make it that great.

If you still think that there is a comparison between racing accidents and street motorcycle accidents you still are ignoring the facts of the matter.

listen to the people that actually wear the things on their heads. mags are biased. just read ca&e and you will see how much influence a full page ad has.You don't think that the writers and editors for Motorcyclist ride or wear helmets? Are you really that blind? There is no comparison between Motorcyclist and CA&E. There are actually journalists that work at Motorcyclist. It is a mag. Gradeschoolers write better than the idiots at CA&E. It is a rag.

The staff at Motorcyclist caught a lot of flack for the article and LOST advertising. They refused to retract the articlae and refused to appologize for it and several major advertisers terminated their contracts as a result. That sounds like responsible journalism to me. You know, the true responsiblity of the media. Informing the public of the truth. Ignoring the money aspect to focus on what the people need to know.

I'm sorry to be the one to burst your fragile little world but you need to open your mind up a lot. You keep saying that the magazines are biased but you blindly follow marketing, not even the illusion of impartiality there, just straight hype. I wouldn't take a helmet makers word for anything unless they provided independent test results to back up their claims and the test actually had merit. I'm showing you that info and you are calling it biased. A purely objective test cannot be biased. They didn't rate comfort or looks or anything like that, only impact resistance using meaningful criteria. If that has less merit in your eyes than a company's marketing or the endorsment of an organization that has done no published testing but rather adopted another standard as their own in the interest of reduced liability and is totally irrelevant to the situation under discussion anyway then you need to wake up.

you cant tell me that you have been air lifted from a track before or taken away in an ambulance. listen to the guy that has been through the scary stuffSo you can only have an informed opinion on helmets if you've been in an accident requiring medevac? RIIIIIIIGHT! I'm gonna go ahead and call BS. That's like saying an automotive engineer doesn't know anything about what makes a safe car because he's never crashed one, or that a paramedic doesn't know how to save a life because he's never died. A lucky man can learn from his own mistakes, a wise man learns from the mistakes of others. I'll take the steps to become a wise man.

helotaxi
09-13-2006, 01:16 AM
Show me one.

helotaxi
09-13-2006, 06:23 PM
Best I can tell the only post you consider useful is one that reinforces your preconceived notions regarding what you think you know. Heaven forbid someone actually provide more information and a differing viewpoint from you giving others the chance to see more than one side of things and make up their own mind from an informed position. You haven't provided one bit of really useful info to this post. You have repeatedly tried to say that I am wrong but have yet to provide anything other than your clearly biased opinion as way of support. If you aren't going to back up your claims with anything other than basically "I said so and I know what I'm talking about," then shut up and let others read the info and come to their own conclusion as to who is giving the whole of the truth.

soundstreamer
09-13-2006, 06:50 PM
nice bike. i had a '99 f4. unbreakable.
as far as helmets go...i had a few during my ~10yrs on bikes. my favorite was an hjc. unfortunatly, it did no good when i got into a wreck and recieved some pretty severe head trauma. i don't remember the first three days in the hospital and the rest of the first week is a little sketchy. the hjc helmet came out unscathed...it was sitting in my garage when i was out riding.
summary: wear your helmet.