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View Full Version : Need Advice: Oz Audio Matrix Elite 180CS with PPI Art Series



Odd Soul
08-29-2006, 02:17 AM
Hi everyone, I just registered. This is my first post and I'll start off with a few questions.

My car is a 98 E-Class Benz sedan.

I just installed a Pioneer AVH-7850DVD in-dash DVD head-unit which is 6.1 capable and comes with an electronic crossover system in the hideaway unit. I'm thinking of getting Oz Audio Matrix Elite 180CS for the front stage, Oz Audio Vector V650X3 coaxials for the rear and a sealed IDQ10 for Sub. I will be powering them by these existing amps:

Front Stage - PPI art series A300.2 (75 x 2 @ 4ohms)
Rear & Center - PPI art series AX400 (50 x 4 @ 4 ohms)
Subwoofer - PPI art series A300.2 (300 x 1 @ 4 ohms bridged)

Question 1

Will the Matrix Elites be underpowered? The woofers are rated at 80/150 watts and the tweeters at 50/100 watts (RMS/Peak Power).

Question 2

Will a 10" sub be too weak? Should I go for the IDQ12 instead? I listen to mainly metal with a lot of fast double bass drum stuff so it's important for the bass to be tight and precise.

Question 3

Any recommendations for center speakers?


Thanks. Any advice and recommendations appreciated. :)

dimond
08-29-2006, 08:29 AM
i would give the 180cs more power, say about 150wRMS. if it was me i wouldnt worry about center speaker or rear fill, if your into that surround sound maybe. And for the sub it depends, if its the same sub just different size depends what kind of bass you like. Punchy,quick bass go with the 10, if you want a little deeper sound go with 12. All depends on install as well. Im pretty sure you will like the IDQ's good sq sub.

squeak9798
08-29-2006, 09:21 AM
if it was me i wouldnt worry about center speaker or rear fill, if your into that surround sound maybe.

He stated his unit is capable of 6.1 surround sound. The rears and center are an integral part of that.

squeak9798
08-29-2006, 09:27 AM
Question 1

Will the Matrix Elites be underpowered? The woofers are rated at 80/150 watts and the tweeters at 50/100 watts (RMS/Peak Power).

Hard to say. If 75w is enough to power the speakers to adequate loudness for you, then they will not be underpowered. But that's really going to depend on how loud is "adequate" for you. Also remember that you would need to double the power to gain 3db (in a perfect world, realistically doubling power will gain you less than 3db). So you would need to double the power to make the effort of providing more power really worthwhile IMO.

But if you hook it up and 75w is enough for you....then you are not underpowering them.


Question 2

Will a 10" sub be too weak? Should I go for the IDQ12 instead? I listen to mainly metal with a lot of fast double bass drum stuff so it's important for the bass to be tight and precise.

Tight and precise is not a function of the cone diameter. Rather a function of the overall subwoofer and enclosure design. I personally prefer larger diameter subwoofers so that the subwoofer has to work less for a given output level. That and a relatively low excursion 10" subwoofer (like the IDQ) is going to have a hard time producing realistic output levels.

If you have the space and the budget, I would personally recommend you move up to something like a single 15" IDQ or 12" IDMax (sticking with the ID theme). Infinite baffle, that amplifier should really be enough power for either of them.


Question 3

Any recommendations for center speakers?

You could always purchase a 2nd set of the OZ ME component set, and use a single mid and single tweeter for the center channel. That way they tonally blend.

suleman36
08-29-2006, 07:21 PM
Nice choices there. I have been curious with the OZ Matrix Elite 180CS myself. Does anyone have more info on them ?

I actually have 2 ppi a600.2's that can be put to good use someday.

Just wanted to say, i like your taste.

Odd Soul
08-29-2006, 10:54 PM
Thanks for the advice, squeak9798. I will take it into consideration.

Odd Soul
08-29-2006, 10:55 PM
Just wanted to say, i like your taste.

Thanks :)

addisdar
08-30-2006, 12:53 AM
The CS 180's will sound good at that power. I ran mine like that (75w) for a while until I picked up another amp. Now I feed them 180watts. And, that made a huge difference. Everyone who gets in my car can't believe how good they sound.

addisdar
08-30-2006, 12:54 AM
I was going to mention that I can get you a good deal on some, but then I noticed your in Singapore.

Odd Soul
08-30-2006, 02:52 AM
There are 2 other options that I'm considering for the front stage.

Option 1

Power the tweeters and woofers separately with the AX400's 50W x 4 channels and ditch the passive crossovers. This will give each side 100W.

Option 2

Bridge the AX400 to 200W x 2 channels and use the passive crossovers. However, I'm worried that 200W is too much for the 180CS to handle, especially since the art series amps are underrated. Oz Audio's website states the max power rating of the 180CS at 200W.

What do you guys think? Better signal separation or more power?

04silverz
08-30-2006, 03:26 AM
out of all the subs ive owned, i prefer teh idmax sealed for quick punchy response. i'd go with a 12 myself. however from talking to id they recomend he idq for musiclike metal. ive never heard it so i cant comment on it
presonally i'd say go with the oz and power them with as much as you can and get an idmax 12 and be done with it.

addisdar
08-30-2006, 09:37 AM
There are 2 other options that I'm considering for the front stage.

Option 1

Power the tweeters and woofers separately with the AX400's 50W x 4 channels and ditch the passive crossovers. This will give each side 100W.

Option 2

Bridge the AX400 to 200W x 2 channels and use the passive crossovers. However, I'm worried that 200W is too much for the 180CS to handle, especially since the art series amps are underrated. Oz Audio's website states the max power rating of the 180CS at 200W.

What do you guys think? Better signal separation or more power?

Option 2

You'll be fine. Just gain match it. I am running a US Amps 4300X bridged to 2 channels on my 180CS. And just like the Art series, US Amps are underrated. No problem, and the components will love it. Just set the tweeter attenuation correctly on the crossover. :)

addisdar
08-30-2006, 09:40 AM
You can also go with the OZ Audio ME Subs. They are a high excursion woofer that rival the SQ of the IDMax. They can just get really loud if you want them to. Check out my sig to see my setups. ;)

squeak9798
08-30-2006, 10:45 PM
Better signal separation or more power?

You wouldn't really gain any better "signal separation" from the first option, only more flexibility since you would be forced to run active.

That said....if your installation is going to have the tweeter and mid located in the same location (i.e. both in kickpanels), I would say go with option #2. If you are going to be locating them in different areas (say, mids in kicks or doors and tweeters on the A-pillar) I would go for option #1 and run active....the passive xover will be less optimized for that installation scenario and you would benefit greatly from going active.

Odd Soul
08-30-2006, 10:50 PM
You can also go with the OZ Audio ME Subs. They are a high excursion woofer that rival the SQ of the IDMax. They can just get really loud if you want them to. Check out my sig to see my setups. ;)

Thanks for the recommendation. Your system looks ******.

Odd Soul
08-30-2006, 10:58 PM
You wouldn't really gain any better "signal separation" from the first option, only more flexibility since you would be forced to run active.

That said....if your installation is going to have the tweeter and mid located in the same location (i.e. both in kickpanels), I would say go with option #2. If you are going to be locating them in different areas (say, mids in kicks or doors and tweeters on the A-pillar) I would go for option #1 and run active....the passive xover will be less optimized for that installation scenario and you would benefit greatly from going active.

Wow, I thought the passive crossovers were optimized for the tweeters and mids in different locations. I'm definitely gonna go active now. Thanks!

Pr0d1gy
08-30-2006, 11:02 PM
Thanks for the recommendation. Your system looks ******.

Oh it is, he let me drive down to his place & listen to them and it really opened my eyes to how well a car audio system can actually perform. You will not be disappointed with those comps at all, and the subs can pound too. I'm buying my comps in a couple weeks :yumyum: :D :D :D :veryhapp: :veryhapp: :veryhapp: :veryhapp: :veryhapp:

squeak9798
08-30-2006, 11:02 PM
Naw....way too many installation variables for them to be able to effectively calculate the crossover that way.

Active sounds like it would be better for your situation.

Though, can you maintain your 5.1 surround sound while running active out of that equipment?

addisdar
08-30-2006, 11:21 PM
Wow, I thought the passive crossovers were optimized for the tweeters and mids in different locations. I'm definitely gonna go active now. Thanks!

If you are going to go active, be sure to send more than 50 watts to the 6.5 on the OZ set. RMS is 100 on that, and it can take MUCH more.

Odd Soul
08-30-2006, 11:30 PM
Though, can you maintain your 5.1 surround sound while running active out of that equipment?

I'll have to power the center speakers with the headunit or get another amp. Maybe I can consider a getting a mono amp for the sub.

suleman36
08-31-2006, 12:00 AM
So active is recommended if the tweeter is in the a piller and the mid in the door ?

and

Passive is recommended if the tweeter and mid are next to eachother ?

I thought it was the opposite for better imaging with the crossover that it comes with.

Someone please clarify this for me. Im starting to have doubts about putting 200 x 2 @ 4 ohm to my CDT HD62's since my tweeter will be up high on the door panal and my mids in the stock door locations...

audiolife
08-31-2006, 12:17 AM
i would stick with the same type of speakers for the center if you could ..... which surround sound starts middle out? is that 6.1 or 7.1 or something else? i quit selling home ausio when 6.1 was the rage lol

squeak9798
08-31-2006, 09:01 AM
So active is recommended if the tweeter is in the a piller and the mid in the door ?

and

Passive is recommended if the tweeter and mid are next to eachother ?

I thought it was the opposite for better imaging with the crossover that it comes with.

Someone please clarify this for me. Im starting to have doubts about putting 200 x 2 @ 4 ohm to my CDT HD62's since my tweeter will be up high on the door panal and my mids in the stock door locations...


Active would be far better. Due to the various locations, the xover point and slope will likely need to be adjusted for your specific mounting locations and vehicle acoustic affects. Also, you will want the ability to independently time align each speaker since they will each be mounted at a different distance from the listening position.

suleman36
08-31-2006, 09:22 AM
I whould imagine you whould want to time align the set even if its run passive with the mids and tweeters close to eachother.

I think if i do go active it whould be best to use a 6 or 12db slope @ 80-125hz

and

if i go passive then about 18 or 24db slope @ 80-125hz

Correct me if im wrong here....

If i do go active, i may just end up using coaxials to be done with it because i dont think i can mount the tweeter next to the mid without cutting the door panel in my ride. I will check with my installer to see if it is possible etc...

audiolife
08-31-2006, 01:59 PM
I whould imagine you whould want to time align the set even if its run passive with the mids and tweeters close to eachother.

I think if i do go active it whould be best to use a 6 or 12db slope @ 80-125hz

and

if i go passive then about 18 or 24db slope @ 80-125hz

Correct me if im wrong here....

If i do go active, i may just end up using coaxials to be done with it because i dont think i can mount the tweeter next to the mid without cutting the door panel in my ride. I will check with my installer to see if it is possible etc...

i think you have that backwards lol

suleman36
09-08-2006, 03:52 PM
Im also thinking about using my ppi a600.2 on the OZ audio Matrix CS 180's

This amp is capable of 150 x 2 @ 4 ohm

What do you guys think.. Should be sweet

addisdar
09-08-2006, 05:50 PM
Im also thinking about using my ppi a600.2 on the OZ audio Matrix CS 180's

This amp is capable of 150 x 2 @ 4 ohm

What do you guys think.. Should be sweet


That amp will do perfectly fine with that set. Should sound awesome.

helotaxi
09-09-2006, 06:27 AM
I whould imagine you whould want to time align the set even if its run passive with the mids and tweeters close to eachother.

I think if i do go active it whould be best to use a 6 or 12db slope @ 80-125hz

and

if i go passive then about 18 or 24db slope @ 80-125hz

Correct me if im wrong here....
Those are crossover points to divide between a sub and a mid and aren't terribly relevent to the situation at hand. Unless you are running one stereo amp in a stereo + mono setup that frequency division is pretty much always active.

nauc
10-09-2006, 01:34 AM
i have a pair of Oz ME components one the way....

Oz rates the tweet at 50 watts, the mid 100

100 or 150 or more per side, seems like a lot

audiolife
10-09-2006, 03:02 AM
the older versions of oz high end components i know a curtain car the had 300watts mono going to each side...depends how you set it up and listen too it.