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phyphoestilic
08-16-2006, 12:59 AM
:) First of all, dont respond with noob products that dont even fit in the same catagory.
I am trying to decied betwee the following speakers setup. Powered by Tru 4.100v2 BB upgrade (125 or 150 x 4 @ 4 ohms)

SEAs Lotus
Reference RT27F
Seas Lotus Reference Woofer RW165/1
Reference Low Pass Filter
Reference High Pass Filter
(They offer a reference series component but it comes with RT25F tweeter, and I want the new one :laugh: )

Rainbow
Powerline CS 265

Scanspeak, Tru
Tru F1 Crossover
Scan-Speak 1" Ring Radiator (R2904-7000000)
Scan-Speak 6.5" Mid-Woofer, Revelator (18W8531G00)

Brax
6.1 2-Way

Dynaudio
System 240 Esotar


Morel
Elate 6

DLS
Ultimate Nobelium 6.2

Now I know there is kind of a vast difference in price ($100-300)
But please, anyone who has tested most/all of these speakers please give me ur most unbais suggestions. I know Rainbow is ranked high on these forums so that might not happen, but its worth a try. Please like I stated do not post throwing in some other components/setup that isnt even in the same catagory as these.:)

azbass
08-16-2006, 01:01 AM
well i love my dynas. and they get really loud. and handle quite a bit of power. :)

Hebrew Hammer
08-16-2006, 02:20 AM
why pair the best tweeter in the world with an average midbass?

phyphoestilic
08-16-2006, 02:29 AM
I changed it, I wanted to go with the peerless, but I wanted a differnt model that the site doesnt sell. So changed to Scanspeak (wanted Peerless cuse their better for IB, the model I was looking at anyways)

6spdcoupe
08-16-2006, 02:29 AM
subscribing to see where this goes..

alphakenny1
08-16-2006, 02:30 AM
i can speak for the seas lotus reference. if tuned and setup correctly you'll have leon's (dingaling's) car, haha. nah seriously, the midbass on the lotus references are awesome and IMO for those people who complained about the lack of midbass of these drivers either had wrong xover selections or their sub just plain didn't blend well into their system. i can also talk of the new lotus reference tweet. silky smoothe is all i can say. great off axis response.

not too many especially on this forum have tested many of these (unless your hammer :laugh: ).

alphakenny1
08-16-2006, 02:31 AM
I couldn't find the best midbass >.<

maybe if you to get those scan speak tweets, how about the seas w18nx?

mikeyboc
08-16-2006, 02:33 AM
I think you are going to have a tough time finding people who have heard/owned multiple sets that you listed to give you adequate feedback on pros and cons.

6spdcoupe
08-16-2006, 02:37 AM
Ive heard/played with and/or owned most of the above, but just about anything I say may seem biased.

phyphoestilic
08-16-2006, 02:38 AM
Ive heard/played with and/or owned most of the above, but just about anything I say may seem biased.

I kinda have a thought of what ur going to lean toward, but if u can compare them like which u would have over the toher (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc) that would help too :)

phyphoestilic
08-16-2006, 02:42 AM
maybe if you to get those scan speak tweets, how about the seas w18nx?

I can't get those, the ones I listed above are the best I can do, for the SEAs its either the setup I put up or just the regular Reference component set with the RT25F

alphakenny1
08-16-2006, 02:51 AM
also think a better suggestion is run over eca or diyma as many of those people have ran scan speak, dynaudio, morel and seas lotus (newer versions too).

phyphoestilic
08-16-2006, 02:55 AM
Yeah, was thinking about that, but this is the only forums I am currently registered on. Maybe I will post on those if I dont get good responses form this forum

phyphoestilic
08-16-2006, 03:00 AM
also think a better suggestion is run over eca or diyma as many of those people have ran scan speak, dynaudio, morel and seas lotus (newer versions too).

I see ur lookin at the SEAs Excel on the ECA forums right now. :)

alphakenny1
08-16-2006, 03:25 AM
I see ur lookin at the SEAs Excel on the ECA forums right now. :)

i love my seas :).

bri487
08-16-2006, 03:26 AM
the zapco competition components are ****** plain and simple. with the right power and processing, they are unreal. other than that, dynaudio is the only other thing close.

alphakenny1
08-16-2006, 03:30 AM
the zapco competition components are ****** plain and simple. with the right power and processing, they are unreal. other than that, dynaudio is the only other thing close.

brax doesn't compare? scan speak doesn't compare? seas lotus doesn't compare? :rolleyes:

bri487
08-16-2006, 03:35 AM
brax doesn't compare? scan speak doesn't compare? seas lotus doesn't compare? :rolleyes:

when did i say nothing compares. you are a ****ing prick man. did your mother not love you? did daddy touch you? what the **** is your deal?

alphakenny1
08-16-2006, 03:46 AM
when did i say nothing compares. you are a ****ing prick man. did your mother not love you? did daddy touch you? what the **** is your deal?

you mentioned the zapco's and then you said the only thing that "compares" (to the zapcos) are dynaudio and exluded the others. so in essence you are saying brax, scan speak, seas lotus, morel do not compare ;).

phyphoestilic
08-16-2006, 04:01 AM
keep it on topic please, I dont want a topic that gets locked cuse of admins cuse fighting. Each person is entitled to their own opnions. Please don't comment unncessiarly.

bri487
08-16-2006, 04:15 AM
you mentioned the zapco's and then you said the only thing that "compares" (to the zapcos) are dynaudio and exluded the others. so in essence you are saying brax, scan speak, seas lotus, morel do not compare ;).

dont put compares in quotes, because i never used the word. i said the only thing close to them is the dynaudios. in no way did i mean that in a those are the two best out. if you mention a mustangs performance, and you said the closest thing to it is the camaro, then that is a reasonable statement. no use saying its the best because that is subjective.

3.5Max6spd
08-16-2006, 07:46 AM
FYI the Morel and Scan route require enclosures on the midbass for optimal setup.The Scan tweeter would requie an on axis aimed install.
So if your vehicle/system plans are best accomodating a goof off axis tweeter you may want to consider the other routes.

For instance wthout a doubt the Dyn's, Rainbows, DLS would be the superior off axis performers on the top end. Put those tweets anywhere and however you'd like and they wont disappoint, they are the more car friendly speaker. The Lotus tweets need some on axis aiming, their off axis isnt 'great' and the mids are picky on how low and authorative it'll play being a low qt driver. I've heard theem pound in some doors , yet bottom out in others.

However it pans out be wary you need a good attention to system design with any of these choices.

phyphoestilic
08-16-2006, 08:12 AM
FYI the Morel and Scan route require enclosures on the midbass for optimal setup.The Scan tweeter would requie an on axis aimed install.
So if your vehicle/system plans are best accomodating a goof off axis tweeter you may want to consider the other routes.

For instance wthout a doubt the Dyn's, Rainbows, DLS would be the superior off axis performers on the top end. Put those tweets anywhere and however you'd like and they wont disappoint, they are the more car friendly speaker. The Lotus tweets need some on axis aiming, their off axis isnt 'great' and the mids are picky on how low and authorative it'll play being a low qt driver. I've heard theem pound in some doors , yet bottom out in others.

However it pans out be wary you need a good attention to system design with any of these choices.

I knew about the scan requiring enclosures for the midbass thats why I had originaly wanted Peerless, but the place I am getting it from doesnt offer Peerless that matches with the scanspeak tweet.

All the other information is good, I didn't know much about the off Axis of the SS and Lotus, but I will put that into consideration. Thanks alot for your feedback :)

FoxPro5
08-16-2006, 08:41 AM
the zapco competition components are ****** plain and simple. with the right power and processing, they are unreal. other than that, dynaudio is the only other thing close.

God it gets annoying :rolleyes:

I've used the RT25F and I feel the other choices, though I've never heard them, might be better....especially the ring radiator or Esotar. My vote has to be Scan.

phyphoestilic
08-16-2006, 10:21 AM
Okay as of right now I am leaning toward the

ScanSpeak
R2904/7000-00 Ring Radiator (1" tweeters, they rated at 160rms, so 4 ohms should be fine from the amp)
18W/8531G000 Revelator (7" midbass, going with 8 ohm because midbass rated at 60rms, and my amp puts 125ish@4 ohms, so should be around 65ish at 8 ohms)
with
Tru Technology
F1 Crossover

I understand the inconviniece of these units not being easy Axis offset like most of the components, but since I am hoping to be competiting in SQ comps I will have to eventually go active with a right setup. So I might as well get it done right the first time :D

I am still open to other opinions and would greatly appriciate input. (I plan on adding at least 1 more pair of midbass, sometime later on.)

3.5Max6spd
08-16-2006, 10:24 AM
I understand the inconviniece of these units not being easy Axis offset like most of the components, but since I am hoping to be competiting in SQ comps I will have to eventually go active with a right setup. So I might as well get it done right the first time :D


Thats the attitude! Good luck, they are exceptional speakers.

bri487
08-16-2006, 02:35 PM
God it gets annoying :rolleyes:

I've used the RT25F and I feel the other choices, though I've never heard them, might be better....especially the ring radiator or Esotar. My vote has to be Scan.

then leave *****.

3.5Max6spd
08-16-2006, 02:54 PM
I forgot that the Esostars are home based. I dunno how good their off axis is but its a large format tweeter as the scans. I hear they are awesome.

thadman
08-16-2006, 03:03 PM
if you've got the cash, the best 2-way setup imo would be

2-way
W18NX + LCY108 ribbons

3-way
Peerless XLS 8/ Dayton RS225 + Peerless Exclusive 4.5/5.5 + LCY 108

if you can afford 12v behringer equalizers and crossovers you'll be golden!

and if you're just rolling in dough, nothing would be a carputer with Digital Room Correction software...NOTHING

kublkmax
08-16-2006, 03:57 PM
I have kind of a simple question. What type of car is this set up going in? Who will do your install? The reason I ask is you leaning towards as system that requiers an inclosure of the midbass and axis issues for the tweet. If you or your installer is not really skilled you can spend goobs of money on this stuff that is no doubt top notch, and have it sound like poo!!! I am bias so I will refrain from my reommendation. I have heard most of your choices but not all. Good luck I sure what ever you do will sound sweet. becasue you have picked so very highend stuff.

3.5Max6spd
08-16-2006, 04:03 PM
I have kind of a simple question. What type of car is this set up going in? Who will do your install? The reason I ask is you leaning towards as system that requiers an inclosure of the midbass and axis issues for the tweet. If you or your installer is not really skilled you can spend goobs of money on this stuff that is no doubt top notch, and have it sound like poo!!! I am bias so I will refrain from my reommendation. I have heard most of your choices but not all. Good luck I sure what ever you do will sound sweet. becasue you have picked so very highend stuff.

x2

Specially if hes relying on a simply xover like the Tru to do his tuning.

Simek4life
08-16-2006, 08:47 PM
I have never heard the ones u have mentioned, but i just got my JBL GTI's and they sound great. not as expenisve and definetly get loud with good midbass. just my .02.

phyphoestilic
08-16-2006, 09:56 PM
I have kind of a simple question. What type of car is this set up going in? Who will do your install? The reason I ask is you leaning towards as system that requiers an inclosure of the midbass and axis issues for the tweet. If you or your installer is not really skilled you can spend goobs of money on this stuff that is no doubt top notch, and have it sound like poo!!! I am bias so I will refrain from my reommendation. I have heard most of your choices but not all. Good luck I sure what ever you do will sound sweet. becasue you have picked so very highend stuff.

It will be going into a 1996 Lexus LS400. It will probably be done by a local shop called "Audio Shoppee" or soemthing, their trustworthy and carry only high end stuff (Tru, Arc, Morel, DLS, RE, Image Dynamics, Helix) and have done competition winning cars. I know about the enclosures and I am still thinking that one through, because It would be nice to just drop in a IB with MDF wood (I have 5 1/4 holes). But in the long run it should be worth it. As I have stated for 6spdcoupe I know what u are probably leaning toward, but if u can give suggestions as how u would rate each setup it would still be fine.

phyphoestilic
08-16-2006, 09:59 PM
I have never heard the ones u have mentioned, but i just got my JBL GTI's and they sound great. not as expenisve and definetly get loud with good midbass. just my .02.

-_- my brother was going to use those, if I remeber I had made a post before for my brother with a bunch of speaker recommendations. They are decent speakers, but are not near the competition setup I am aiming for. Please look around the forums, u should find some information on the speakers I am using. :)

phyphoestilic
08-16-2006, 10:01 PM
I guess I should also add I will be putting my IDMax's in a IB setup for the SQ, It will make a difference mainly because my cabin and trunk are mostly seperated, the only opening between the two is where the stock IB 10' subwoofer went, so I will be doing some cutting to the trunk dash as well to get the bass in the car.

phyphoestilic
08-16-2006, 10:18 PM
if you've got the cash, the best 2-way setup imo would be
2-way
W18NX + LCY108 ribbons
3-way
Peerless XLS 8/ Dayton RS225 + Peerless Exclusive 4.5/5.5 + LCY 108
if you can afford 12v behringer equalizers and crossovers you'll be golden!

and if you're just rolling in dough, nothing would be a carputer with Digital Room Correction software...NOTHING

For now I am looking for a 2 way setup, I am putting alot of money into this setup, but I am at all no way near rich. I have thought about the carputer idea as well (mine was a cheap version with basic LCD screen and a computer I built myself since I use to build computers all the time). I realize the quality difference u can get with a carputer too ( their up to 96bit or something ?, which is 3 times the 24 bit from my headunit).

But I have looked at ur suggestions
SEAs Excel
W18NX-001
LCY
LCY108 Ribbon (These a really uniqly shaped)

I have not heard of LCY so I can't say anything about their speakers, so if someone can put in some input it would be nice

Hebrew Hammer
08-17-2006, 02:44 AM
if you've got the cash, the best 2-way setup imo would be

2-way
W18NX + LCY108 ribbons

3-way
Peerless XLS 8/ Dayton RS225 + Peerless Exclusive 4.5/5.5 + LCY 108

if you can afford 12v behringer equalizers and crossovers you'll be golden!

and if you're just rolling in dough, nothing would be a carputer with Digital Room Correction software...NOTHING


nonsense....

not even close to what his best option would be

I have a few ribbon pairs laying around...and how I would discribe them is shimmery..I tend to call ribbons the david copperfield of drivers...they give you this illusion of grandure but in all reality it's just smoke and mirrors..they are not tonally accurate IMO..not even close..plus they are huge...like esotar huge

99StangGt
08-17-2006, 02:50 AM
well tell us Hebrew. you have owned the best. Maybe I should talk you about new tweeters that sound like supremos, lol

Hebrew Hammer
08-17-2006, 03:00 AM
IMO..on axis...nothing comes close to the ring rev...now off axis is a different story...though scan does make the 6600 which given the pros and cons of the car environment, maybe better suited...

in regards to the supremos..very nice tweeters..but if not tamed tend to be very spitty and very upfront..I'd chose a hiquphon OW1fs if I couldn't get the scans...and from what I keep reading..the Brax matrix tweeter is something special as well

99StangGt
08-17-2006, 03:26 AM
Thanks hebrew. I checked prices and I am to poor for those. I am a little cheaper, lol. Looking for 200 and under for tweeters. I havent got the mids yet but I am thinking of going back to my old seas ca18s and maybe Morel supremos. I think my dyn md100s are real spitty and my old focal tn45 were worse. Sure would like to hear some good tweeters.

phyphoestilic
08-17-2006, 03:33 AM
Thanks hebrew. I checked prices and I am to poor for those. I am a little cheaper, lol. Looking for 200 and under for tweeters. I havent got the mids yet but I am thinking of going back to my old seas ca18s and maybe Morel supremos. I think my dyn md100s are real spitty and my old focal tn45 were worse. Sure would like to hear some good tweeters.

Thats why i am leaning toward the Scanspeak 2904 ring rev. tweets :)

T3mpest
08-17-2006, 04:25 PM
IMO..on axis...nothing comes close to the ring rev...now off axis is a different story...though scan does make the 6600 which given the pros and cons of the car environment, maybe better suited...

in regards to the supremos..very nice tweeters..but if not tamed tend to be very spitty and very upfront..I'd chose a hiquphon OW1fs if I couldn't get the scans...and from what I keep reading..the Brax matrix tweeter is something special as well

You really should have listened to those brax when you had them.

3.5Max6spd
08-17-2006, 05:33 PM
You really should have listened to those brax when you had them.

Something tells me he'll one day soon he'll have another rondevous with them...:)

Towncar
08-17-2006, 05:49 PM
Polk sinature reference components sound great. Maybe something you should look at aswell.

kublkmax
08-18-2006, 02:29 PM
^^^^^ not to be condisending but those are not even in the same league of speakers that we are discussing here. Now like I said I am a bit bias and have not heard them all we are talking about. I would suggest mixing up things maybe don't buy a set per say. Midbass I am big fan of the Powerline CS it is designed based on the profi sub. I love the the Cal 28 tweet but the supremo is not bad. I have not heard the Scans and would be very intersed to hear as a comparison. You could also run the Platnuim set with the upgraded midbass. Or if you are a true balla then just buy the Rainbow reference set and call it a day! Really no matter what you get is going to be awsome. Good luck and keep us posted.

bigwise1
08-18-2006, 06:52 PM
You could also run the Platnuim set with the upgraded midbass.

upgraded midbass? do you have a link for that?

kublkmax
08-18-2006, 08:04 PM
here ya go. http://car.rainbow-audio.de/products/details.php?lan=2&pro=1&lin=2&art=231443

Better yet call this number 732-572-1969. The answers you see will be found there.

phyphoestilic
08-19-2006, 07:10 AM
^^^^^ not to be condisending but those are not even in the same league of speakers that we are discussing here. Now like I said I am a bit bias and have not heard them all we are talking about. I would suggest mixing up things maybe don't buy a set per say. Midbass I am big fan of the Powerline CS it is designed based on the profi sub. I love the the Cal 28 tweet but the supremo is not bad. I have not heard the Scans and would be very intersed to hear as a comparison. You could also run the Platnuim set with the upgraded midbass. Or if you are a true balla then just buy the Rainbow reference set and call it a day! Really no matter what you get is going to be awsome. Good luck and keep us posted.

Thx for the reply :) I thought about the Reference set, but it's way too much for me. So far most of the sets I am considering putting together is around $2k. I would really love the reference because it just seems so ****! lol But I will try to keep u guys updated. I am planning on the Scanspeak Tweeters pretty much for sure. If I can find somewhere to get the Powerline CS Midbass (I am waiting for reply from Don), I plan on using those two or the Scanspeak tweeter and a reveator midbass from Scanspeak too. I havn't decided on my Crossover yet. I have the Arc DEX and Tru F1 crossovers in mind, but I am sitll willing to read other peoples replys.

kublkmax
08-19-2006, 01:14 PM
Glad I could provide some imput. Yeah those refernce are **** but out of my league. Cross Over I like the DXE freind of mine has it so I have played with it. easy to use great piece. Did you call Don? or PM? If you have not called the number is 2 post up.

phyphoestilic
08-19-2006, 02:57 PM
Yes, Don had responded he is busy working so he said he will get back to me with prices when he can. I will be still doing multiple set up considerations, but please anyone with anymore feed back please feel free to post them. :D

GordonW
08-19-2006, 03:02 PM
I have a few ribbon pairs laying around...and how I would discribe them is shimmery..I tend to call ribbons the david copperfield of drivers...they give you this illusion of grandure but in all reality it's just smoke and mirrors..they are not tonally accurate IMO..not even close..plus they are huge...like esotar huge

Depends on where they're crossed over. The LCY ribbons, if you use the factory crossovers (as in, what they send with their "pre-packaged" ribbons in the cylindrical enclosures) are crossed over at 14KHz. So, they're TRULY suited to be ONLY SUPERTWEETERS. Running them lower (below 10KHz) can quickly cause "problem" behaviour...

I'm currently running a pair of the 110s, in a prototype high-end home setup (Radian cast-frame 8" coax, hand-built dual-10" woofers, triple 10" passives, etc)... and they're crossed in at about 16KHz (that's where the Radian horn tweeter in the coax starts to get "ragged", so I roll them out there, and go to the LCYs)... and there's nothing "shimmery" about them. Just plain good dynamics and very accurate, from both a time domain and frequency response standpoint...

Regards,
Gordon.

Hebrew Hammer
08-20-2006, 11:50 PM
The ribbon in allot of cases are used as the only top end source..and not in a supertweeter config..I'm also not a mutiple point source fan, and IMO the fewer the drivers the better without any issues with dopler distortion...I have the LCY 130's, Raven R1's and Aurum Cantus G3's and the Raven's are by far the best out of the three but once again something I don't find as being tonaly truthful...

great read
http://www.zaphaudio.com/nondomes/

Hebrew Hammer
08-20-2006, 11:55 PM
And if you guys think the powline cs drivers or plats are anywere as good as a scan or audio technology driver your crazy

bigwise1
08-21-2006, 02:01 AM
And if you guys think the powline cs drivers or plats are anywere as good as a scan or audio technology driver your crazy


what about just the plat tweet?

3.5Max6spd
08-21-2006, 12:00 PM
For a door mount, I'd take the Powerline CS at much higher Qts (+0.6's), than the Scans that are more vented/sealed enclosure dependant. Revs IB/Free air sound boomy. The Rainbows are car environment designed, and will play pretty much optimally IB.

If you have the airspace for scans it'll be the cheaper route.

phyphoestilic
08-22-2006, 03:39 PM
For a door mount, I'd take the Powerline CS at much higher Qts (+0.6's), than the Scans that are more vented/sealed enclosure dependant. Revs IB/Free air sound boomy. The Rainbows are car environment designed, and will play pretty much optimally IB.

If you have the airspace for scans it'll be the cheaper route.

Yeah, thats the main thing I am tyring to decide. sealing the door for the speaker or just getting something I can throw in there for IB.

Flipx99
08-29-2006, 01:27 AM
Yeah, thats the main thing I am tyring to decide. sealing the door for the speaker or just getting something I can throw in there for IB.


Did you decide on anything...your thread got me thinking it would be a good idea. Not totally DIY but not out-the-box either.

Nearly everyone likes that scan tweet, but what DIY mids? The seas excel? I think they do pretty good in doors but they are 7" and use alot more power. Also, buying a prefab crossover, how do you know which one to choose?

6spdcoupe
08-29-2006, 01:53 AM
Thats when its time to run em active..

Flipx99
08-29-2006, 07:03 PM
Thats when its time to run em active..

Then I have two questions.

a) can you go active with a channel amp if you use an active outboard crossover

b) How does the cal 27 tweet match up with the germ mid or profi phase cone mid or another suggestion that is suited in in-door IB applications with deadened doors.

The tweet is slightly off axis. For the driver's side, the stock location is as if you lifted you left arm perpindicular you would touch it. To be more specific, I am leaning towards a 99 Buick Regal.

kublkmax
08-29-2006, 10:58 PM
yes you can go active with an outboard crossover. I would reconmmend it. The cal 27 would match with germ mid real nice, or with the profi. The germ comes with the cal 25 and that is not a bad tweet in its own right. I current ly have the Germs in my car until about Sunday. Then my Plats and powerlines go in.