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View Full Version : Started my first glass project!



phantom240
07-24-2006, 02:57 PM
Okay, so yeah ive done a little bit of glasing before, but it was to brace up and reinforce stuff for low cost... like my bumper. Other than that glassing a speaker box is kinda new to me.

Got bored yesterday cuz my car's motor is a bit on the toasty side, and my cable went out which means no internet.:crying: Decided to go rewire a few things in my trunk and get rid of the trash and tools that have accumulating in there, and to my suprise water has been getting in my trunk... not cool... that made my MDF box for my subs swell a bit and molded a bit and loosened up some of the carpet. Ive been wanting to fiberglass some boxes for a while, but I havent had the time or the motivation... well boredom is quite motivating. So lets begin...

Started off by lining my trunk with blue painter's tape and wax paper, to make sure that no resin finds its way to my carpet... and test fitted the fiberglass i had leftover from a bumper project... just the right amount with a lil extra!
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/phantom240/P7230164.jpg

So i put a layer of resin down to sturdy the box enough to move in and out of the car, and mid-way through the resin and first layer of glass, i realized my brush was hardening, which made it impossible for me to finish the first layer of glass.... ****...:verymad: so i was left with this..
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/phantom240/P7230166.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/phantom240/P7230167.jpg
Its not all bad, i just need a roll of chop mat and might as well pick up some more resin while im out... and an assload of cheap paint brushes...


Though i do have a few questions..
First, how many cubic feet do you guys think this is gonna be? Cuz im making one identical in the other side of the car, and together there's gonna be a pair of memphis m-class 12's...

also, how did you guys attatch fleece to your boxes after mounting the rings?
Oh, and what kind of fiberglass do you guys use? I used chop strand, but i see like 5 different kinds, what works best as far as easy to wrok with and sturdiness and what not?
Any help or pointers would be great... just dont flame me... this is my first box project.

CrazedCat
07-24-2006, 03:07 PM
Apply the fleece using spray adhesive. Just make sure that thin-*** mold didn't lose its shape when you removed it before you go ahead applying additional layers of mat.

wlmrs
07-24-2006, 03:11 PM
Goodluck with that!

phantom240
07-24-2006, 03:15 PM
no actually i need to spray a couple panels with 3M Super 77 because as it was curing i was trying to hold the blue taped part up against the interior so it would cure in the right shape, and underestimated the exothermic reaction the resin goes through so it got too hot to touch and sagged there a lil bit... but other than that theres only like 1 or 2 places that need care... otherswise the box is fairly sturdy... only 1 or 2 places actually flexed at all when i took it out this morning. Also, i didnt realize how much of a ***** it was gonna be to put resin on the vetical or overhanging pieces... i wonder if i could use a spray bottle? have any of you ever heard of that? And when i fasten the fleecing material to the box, what do i do about overhanging pieces of fleece? and do i fasten the fleece to the outside or inside edge of the box? I'd like to do it inside if i could because if i add any to the outside edge im afraid it wont fir back in there...

phantom240
07-24-2006, 11:47 PM
No info on chop mat vs. Woven type mats? I would think the woven types would have a million times more rigidity than chop... anyone ever use resin gel?

phantom240
07-25-2006, 03:28 PM
Im starting from scratch again... found out i had a few things i didnt account for, so its back to square one. Time to do total tapeage... wax paper is ghey... any tips before i start again?

.::DuD3::.
07-25-2006, 03:37 PM
i did a couple layers before taking it out in my car. theres a solution you can use to wash your brushes in after you're finished, i can't remember the name of it, starts with an a i think. as for the fleece, i'd use staples then stretch it over and cut off any excess of material. research all those fiberglass tutorials, some of them have some good pointers in them.

.::DuD3::.
07-25-2006, 03:40 PM
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/phantom240/P7230166.jpg
also be careful with air bubbles. they are your worst enemy. if you have to many, it will flex and will be worthless. try and stab at all the bubbles best you can with your brush. theres a huge air bubble in the pic above.

phantom240
07-25-2006, 04:00 PM
I know... which is why im gonna start from scratch again. I have a roll of 6" 2oz. chop mat coming to me from eBay, 100' of it lol. I think that might be jsut enough. ima do it in 6x6 squares, and use as little hardener as i can get away with so that I have more time to work with the resin and glass in smaller sections... Whats a good tape to use to cover all the areas i wanna glass? Also, How do i add glass to the back of the enclosure so that i can sand it and paint it without making it too big to fit back into the original space? I was thinking of getting hittyhair for the front of the enclosure...

Badfastbusa
07-25-2006, 04:06 PM
that just looks like a mess... i thought about trying to do one but i quickly decided against it when i seen all that is involved unlike just cutting wood, putting together wood, and putting carpet on the wood (seems much easier)

wesl56
07-25-2006, 04:08 PM
i kno what you mean about the leaking... it *****... i was playing with some of that fiberglass gel to try and fix my a/c box where it was leaking... kinda fun... and yeah the brush goes hard pretty quick and i didnt think about that either lol

phantom240
07-25-2006, 04:15 PM
that just looks like a mess... i thought about trying to do one but i quickly decided against it when i seen all that is involved unlike just cutting wood, putting together wood, and putting carpet on the wood (seems much easier)
lol i hear you on MDF, but here's some food for thought...

MDF Box + Subs = 85 pounds, 2.4 CU ft, No hatch room, pain in my ***...
Glass blox + Subs = Less than 85 pounds, Just as much volume Crammed into a more ergonomical design that leaves more hatch room, less of a pain in my ***...

phantom240
07-25-2006, 05:40 PM
Well I re-taped the area i wanna make a mold of, and revised my design a bit... To make it easier to get to some of the car's essential panels, like for the tail lights and sidemarkers... Im going to cut it off where it goes up the wall, it also makes it easier to glass lol.

So here we go... Im going to go back over it one more time before i start with the layer of resin...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/phantom240/P7250176.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/phantom240/P7250173.jpg

lilmaniac2
07-25-2006, 05:45 PM
why dont u just use resin for your mold then add the matt.. ive never did it before, but ive followed several builds that used that pattern and all turned out successful

might i recommend you take a visit to Fiberglassforums.com before renturing any futher

phantom240
07-25-2006, 05:49 PM
Use resin for the mold? What do you think i'm doing exactly? I dont wanna sound like an ***... Let me clarify for you, because i dont quite think you and me are on the same page here. Im putting the tape down to protect my carpet from resin, im not taking the tape out and using that as a mold, if thats what youre asking.. Again, i dont wanna sound like im "holier than thou" kinda thing... The metal on this car is very complex, and i want it to fit the shape of the interior trim... it makes the car look soooo much better, ill give you guys a pic of what the car looks like without the trim there...


And yes, im a member of fiberglassforums.com

I think that you and me are thinking the same way for the most part, its just expressing it online thats the problem

lilmaniac2
07-25-2006, 05:55 PM
no i thought u were using the mat as the mold... cuz i saw no pics of the resin on the tabe

phantom240
07-25-2006, 06:53 PM
LOL.. yeah thats what i thought u were talkin about. I just now got done layin the first layer of resin, and before it could set i layed a layer of glas, and in the corners and the hard to reach places and stuff i knew would flex i added 2 layers. Just waitin for it to completely harden so i can get a good look at it.

phantom240
07-25-2006, 08:19 PM
Okay, i ran into a problem... i think i didnt use enough hardener on the first layer of resin... is that going to be a huge problem? Or maybe i jsut layered on too much glass and resin at once? I took the enclosure skeleton out to inspect it cuz it seemed rigid enough not to get deformed, and noticed that it wanted to separate from the tape... this got me thinking that maybe i didnt use enough hardener on the first batch, and that by adding more resin and glas on top it wasnt allowed to fully cure? IS this going to be a big problem? I was thinking that if i remove the tape that maybe it would help it cure? or could i just mix up a batch of super hardener rich resin and apply it over the not cured areas and maybe the hardener would mix with the other resin and help it cure? Or do i have to start over AGAIN?

Nexson
07-25-2006, 09:06 PM
brushes at wal-mart, 50 cents, buy like 10 of em, i go through a brush a layer of fiberglass mat

phantom240
07-25-2006, 09:15 PM
i figured that... but what about my un-hardened resin problem.. will it eventually harden, as long as there was SOME hardener in there?

Nexson
07-25-2006, 09:25 PM
yea, actually one time I didn't put enough hardener in there and it took forever to dry, I believe resin without hardeners will dry, but will take very long. Addin the correct amount of harder with the given weather conditions allows you a given amount of time to work and a given period of time the resin will dry. With the correct amount of hardeners, your layers should dry to the touch in some areas around 2 hours.

phantom240
07-25-2006, 09:47 PM
hmm.. cuz i added maybe half of what i usually do, so i could use a single brush to lay a layer of resin and then come back over with fiberglass... plus weather today was ghey... off and on rain, overcast ALL DAY, and very very wet outside. Thats probably a big factor... ima leave it on my roof tomorrow in the sun for a few hours while i work on my motor...

dbornotdb
07-25-2006, 11:49 PM
Where to start??


Put the mold BACK in the car and let it harden there. That resin will cure. It sounds like the weather has slowed it down.
Then add 2 more layers of mat to it BEFORE you remove it. If you don't and add mat outside the car, IT WILL WARP.

Then remove the mold and add a couple more to the inside area. Trim it to your desired design and start with the rings and fleece.

dbornotdb
07-25-2006, 11:51 PM
IF the resin does not fully cure, you can mix up some more resin and extra hardener and add to the top of it and it will cause it to react and harden.

Nexson
07-26-2006, 12:15 AM
. the cup looks like its melting. man, i'm too easily entertained.

i was pouring acetone in a plastic cup for a brush one time and all the sudden i feel my shoes get wet, LOL acetone melting the cup, so cool!! acetone kills the brushes brishles, its a loose loose situation

phantom240
07-26-2006, 12:43 AM
I cant put the mold back in the car. Its supposed to sit against the carpet... and i dont wanna resin it to the carpet... what if i were to lay down an assload of wax paper in the trunk so that it doesnt get all over the place, and lay down 2 or 3 more layers of glass on the inside, so that it wont flex when i re-resin the outside of the box?

phantom240
07-26-2006, 11:26 AM
Left it outside last night, and i came back this morning to check it and it was still gooey, but not as much as before... so i took all the tape off of the back and placed it on my roof to dry. Went to McDonalds, PepBoys, and Home Depot for some fiberglass supplies and food, and to my suprise, the resin was hard to the touch... Sweet. Put it back in the car and started another payer of glass... pics in a few minutes...

troy_audi0
07-26-2006, 03:21 PM
I cant put the mold back in the car. Its supposed to sit against the carpet... and i dont wanna resin it to the carpet... what if i were to lay down an assload of wax paper in the trunk so that it doesnt get all over the place, and lay down 2 or 3 more layers of glass on the inside, so that it wont flex when i re-resin the outside of the box?


tape off the inside of the car so the carpet wont wont get messedup..
I leave the brush in the plastic bucket so you can pull the dry reson out with a brush & toss it all.. & your bucket is ready for the next round..

I got some pix in the link on my Sig

squeak12
07-26-2006, 03:30 PM
No offense, but you need to read up before doing anything else. Tape the area off in a crisscross pattern. Spray on some release agent, such as Pam. Lay a light coat of resin on then put the matt up overlapping. Mix small batches of resin in 2-4 oz containers. Mix hardener as you go. Make sure to get any bubbles out also. Then remove the mold after 3+ layers.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGGL,GGGL:2006-14,GGGL:en&q=fiberglass+tutorial

phantom240
07-26-2006, 03:47 PM
lol i need to get my camera and post up some pics of what it looks like now. Much better than the first. ive been working on it for about 6 hours now, adding resin, fiberglass, trimming glass up to fit on the next layer and all. I have about 4 layers on so far, alternating between fiberglass weave and chop mat. Is there any real difference between the weave and chop as far as integrity? If you read up on my thread, you would have knowen the trouble i was having with the resin yesterday ... or maybe that was my thread on fiberglasforum.com... anyways, i set it on my roof this morning to cure, and the only warping was on the top of the enclosure because the weight was right there.. the area was only about .5"x6" so it wasnt too hard to fix.... trimmed it off and layed some tape on the back of the enclosure so that i could lay new glass there and she fits like a glove now. I think another layer or two and she'll be ready for rings.

Now i have a few questions about the rings. Ive heard that since the resin heats up its not good to hot glue the dowels and rings as the heat might make them release and fukc up my box. Could i hot glue the dowels and rings together where i want them, and then use resin and glass around the bases to attatch them more firmy? Also, whats a good way to fasten my fleecing material to the box when i go to stretch it over the rings? One last thing, there are some smaller bubbles in the box, less than the size of...well ranging from the size of a pin head to about half the diameter of a dime... and most of em are between the first and second layer of glass... is that gonna be really bad? or will the other 3 layers on top of it make up for it?

phantom240
07-26-2006, 09:45 PM
Okay, time for new pics... well a pic..

So this is how it stands now, started trimming down frayed/ crappy edges... still need to do some trimming and lay a couple layers of glass where bubbles had been a problem... The black is my outline, showing where i needed to cut, still have one side to cut, i need the jigsaw for that one... the diegrinder isnt easy to use there...
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/phantom240/P7260156.jpg

Does it look okay to you guys? most of it already has 4 layers of glas, with some areas, such as corners with 5 layers, and the bottom floor piece has 5 layers too..

phantom240
07-26-2006, 09:46 PM
Hell, if this project turns out well, im going to make a sunroof cover for my car... mine broke, and i hate the sun beating down on me from my sunroof...

troy_audi0
07-26-2006, 10:30 PM
I use a dremmle type tool.. Iv never used a jig saw on FG but I think it would be a pain in the but & my crack it or fray the FG..
Good luck..
Troy

phantom240
07-26-2006, 10:39 PM
hmm.. good point. Back to the electric die grinder... die grinder > dremel... pwnage

Nexson
07-26-2006, 11:45 PM
i used a jigsaw on my box to cut it, worked perfectly fine. As for the hot glue, I never had any good experiences with it because it never seemed to hold up the dowels to the ring, anyhow just use hot glue or staples to attached the fleece to the edges, make sure its completely stretched, its one of the most important stages in the process, GL

phantom240
07-27-2006, 12:12 AM
does my box look like it might be ready for rings and fleece to you? Ill order rings asap... didnt think i would have this much time to work on it... just gotta find my bondo now LOL.

phantom240
07-27-2006, 02:50 PM
Okay...Ive decided to make the box ported... how do i go about making a ported fiberglass box? never tried such a thing...

phantom240
07-27-2006, 06:36 PM
OKay, i think that to make it ported, im going to need a 6.2" long flared port 3" wide to get it to 35 hz... does that sound right to you guys? Also, can i also use polyfill in this box to make it seem alrger or is that a sealed box only kinda thing...

troy_audi0
07-27-2006, 11:06 PM
Hey man, Set down the J & thank about your next move.. :D
If you plan on going ported you will need to make the vol of the box larger..
use the port thing on www.the12volt.com to find the around about size you need..
You can put a turn in the port tobe if you need to check www.partsexpress.com for aeroports & other plastic ports..
You will need to scuff it real well or mount it to MDF <- better option
after you find the parts you need & size's you will need try to think out your plan & see if it will work..
Good luck keep us posted..
Peace OUt Troy www.zensmoke.com

phantom240
07-28-2006, 12:49 AM
Yes, i realize i need to make the box bigger, but i think that once i set my ring where i want it, and set up the port, supported by an mdf ring, that the volume will be great enough... shootin for about 2.2 cubes. I figre i can wrap everything and get ready to resin it, but instead, fill ti with packing peanuts and see if i need to make adjustments before i resin the fleece. Sound like a plan to you?

crazy4ozs
07-29-2006, 02:21 AM
sounds like a plan ;) gl 2 u sir, and oh, at this rate, ill be done with bondo and paint b4 u even get to fleecing! haha

phantom240
07-29-2006, 08:22 AM
:( lol. Thats cool... the car isnt going anywhere anytime soon with a blown up motor... but mines gonna be ported vs. your sealed lol. Yeah i was gonna do sealed cuz i love the punchiness of it, but decided to try ported, after proving to a bunch of my friends that its not the size that counts, its how its built...not like that... but i have a subwoofer for my compouter and its 8 inches, and sounds like crap cuz i beat the hell out of it... so i pulled it out to replace with another speaker, and turns out all my 6.5's i had layin around were garbage, and only had a pair of alpine type-s 4x6's layin around. I pucked one up and my friend was like "So youre telling me that a 4x6 is going to sound as good, if not better than an 8... youre full of ****" ... well i siliconed the adapter plate i made to the box and put the speaker in and seled it all up, and bam! awesome sub. Well... after it broke in of course. Rattled and sounded like total **** at first, but after about an hour she cleaned up and now sounds great.

I think im the first person to do 2 things with this.
First, I think im the only person to ever use a 4x6 as a subwoofer
and second, i think im the first person to have an alpine computer subwoofer... lol