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spudracer326
05-31-2006, 08:23 PM
Is there a reason ribbon tweeters arent used for car audio??? THey seem like they are somewhat superior to traditional dome tweeters...so whats the deal???? Maybey some of you ht guys can comment on this.....

3.5Max6spd
05-31-2006, 08:28 PM
I wouldnt say they are superior. They do have great top end dispersion and resolution.

Reason they are not used by most (although plenty of people do) is size(install limitations and requirements), poor off axis performance (by most), and some dont play as low as most domes.

spudracer326
05-31-2006, 08:36 PM
huh...i wanna try em but am unsure if it would be worth the hassel....what do you mean by poor off axis response....if they arent inline with the woofer they dont perform well???

alphakenny1
05-31-2006, 08:43 PM
have you seen ribbons? those fickers are huge.

spudracer326
05-31-2006, 08:46 PM
haha yeah...they are huge...I had planned on glassing em into the a pillars....

spudracer326
05-31-2006, 08:47 PM
do they need alot of airspace or are they like dome tweets and fine with very little??

spudracer326
05-31-2006, 08:50 PM
hebrew whats your take on em...

spudracer326
05-31-2006, 08:59 PM
5 members and no responses/thoughts??
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 5 (5 members and 0 guests)
spudracer326 , 2kchevy , 404 , Hebrew Hammer , Stangs400

Hebrew Hammer
05-31-2006, 09:41 PM
Take is from a guy who owns the LCY 130's, Aurium Cantus G3's and Raven R1's..they make for great home tweeters...and I'd even would be so bold as to say from 8K and up and work extremely well for top end reinforcement...but not much more than that..90% of them are horrible off axis and are huge...and tend to be more shimmery and pretty sounding than tonaly accurate IMO

Jaredl
05-31-2006, 09:57 PM
Ribbons have bad vertical dispersion. If you can put them into a-pillars you may be able to get them to work pretty well, but other than LCYs the vertical off-axis response is TERRIBLE (which makes them good for kick panel mounting but then the back passengers will hear nothing). You'll have to sit in the same position and not care about passengers' sound. They're also generally expensive and very large (my AC G3Sis are 5.5" x 3" with 3" depth). They don't need boxes, they're tweeters with sealed backs. If you're looking for some ribbons, I am thinking of selling my G3Sis (they're AC's middle range - list price is $500/pair and $425 online - I'm obviously not looking for near that - I'll stop plugging them now). Basically, they can sound great but are hard to integrate into a car.

spudracer326
06-01-2006, 12:34 AM
cool...thanks for the info guys....i think I might stick with some vifas or scanspeak dome tweets when I go active in the future....jaredel pm me your price on the ribbons...I might be interested for the right price....

Hebrew Hammer
06-01-2006, 09:04 AM
the scan 2904 is hard to beat...and if you really want to go all out get the new scan 6600 tweeter

Jaredl
06-01-2006, 09:31 AM
Are you saying the 6600 is better than the ring radiator? The ring radiator is double the cost...

joetama
06-01-2006, 10:06 AM
Usually Ribbon or planners have odd impedance curves too. I know some companies have fixed this with years of redesign and compensation circuitry but it's still nothing like a conventional tweeter.

Also, I know some Ring Radiator tweeters have fixed this problem, but they too have horrible off axis response and can cause really odd imaging off of a window or dash if mounded wrong.

Hebrew Hammer
06-01-2006, 10:10 AM
no...but close...but what it does do allot better is off axis response "prolly the best of all the scans" ..which is my only complaint with the ring rev...you get that thing anything more than 25 degrees + off axis and it doesn't even sound like it's playing...but I doubt any tweeter other than a horn can play as wide as a freq range as a ring rev nor will ever sound as good as a ring rev...

joetama
06-01-2006, 10:19 AM
I have heard some really good sounding Ring tweeters, but I just don't know if I like them that much. They lack something I like, but I'm not sure what it is. I've tried to explain it before to people and they just didn't get what I was saying, so I'm not going to try here...

By any means though, they can do some ultra amazing things with how wide band they are, and they do have good depth, and good imaging but only if installed right....

Jaredl
06-01-2006, 11:52 AM
That's good to know. That tweeter did catch my eye when I saw it. That seems like a bargain compared to the ring radiators for 1/2 the price (but still really expensive, not to say scan drivers aren't awesome).

Beat_Dominator
06-01-2006, 12:21 PM
One point I didn't see mentioned.... Ribbons are delicate and most likely would not hold up well in vibrating confines of the car. Add in the need for some sort of UV coating and a "mobile" ribbon probably wouldn't perform very well.

jujumantb
06-01-2006, 12:22 PM
do they need alot of airspace or are they like dome tweets and fine with very little??
haha.... tweeter flex, they dont need airspace...

Jaredl
06-01-2006, 12:35 PM
One point I didn't see mentioned.... Ribbons are delicate and most likely would not hold up well in vibrating confines of the car. Add in the need for some sort of UV coating and a "mobile" ribbon probably wouldn't perform very well.
Ribbons aren't that weak. There are plenty of people on diymobileaudio.com that use ribbons in their cars. As long as there isn't wind blowing on the ribbon element, you shouldn't have a problem.

Beat_Dominator
06-01-2006, 12:38 PM
Ribbons aren't that weak. There are plenty of people on diymobileaudio.com that use ribbons in their cars. As long as there isn't wind blowing on the ribbon element, you shouldn't have a problem.


Heh, but as I would guess something that can never be "blown" on in a car wouldn't last very long..... drive with the windows open....WHOPS! :D

Jaredl
06-01-2006, 01:01 PM
Heh, but as I would guess something that can never be "blown" on in a car wouldn't last very long..... drive with the windows open....WHOPS! :D
Kick panels, a-pillars? It's pretty hard to get something to blow on them unless you put a fan next to them or blow on them yourself, wind shouldn't be an issue as it will be blowing on the back of the tweeters if anywhere.

req
06-01-2006, 01:02 PM
yea i would say the main reasons are the mounting issues, they are generally pretty **** giant.

couple that with terrible off axis response, and its definatly not good for car usage.

think of it this way, when you use ribbons in a HT, you set them on the same plane as the rest of the speakers (normally) and aim them perfectly at the listening area and they are usually quite a distance away. thats the normal application for them.

but in a car, you are maybe 2~5 feet from them at MOST, and integrating them into a cars dashboard or pillars and aiming them correctly woulod be extremly difficult - even without all the odd reflections from glass\dash\ect.

Jaredl
06-01-2006, 01:19 PM
yea i would say the main reasons are the mounting issues, they are generally pretty **** giant.

couple that with terrible off axis response, and its definatly not good for car usage.

think of it this way, when you use ribbons in a HT, you set them on the same plane as the rest of the speakers (normally) and aim them perfectly at the listening area and they are usually quite a distance away. thats the normal application for them.

but in a car, you are maybe 2~5 feet from them at MOST, and integrating them into a cars dashboard or pillars and aiming them correctly woulod be extremly difficult - even without all the odd reflections from glass\dash\ect.
If they have such terrible off axis response, then there would be no reflections to worry about.

As I stated before, they have poor VERTICAL dispersion. They have excellent horizontal dispersion. Thus, they are ideal for kick panel mounting. You can mount them far back and get great response for the front seats without having to worry about under dash reflections.

Beat_Dominator
06-01-2006, 01:38 PM
Most response measurements I've seen for ribbons show pretty weak off-axis response no matter the axis chosen. I'm not a ribbon freak so I'm not sure if there are some companies that make better ones than others.

Jaredl
06-01-2006, 02:26 PM
I can't point to any specific data, but most ribbons I've seen are supposed to have good horizontal off-axis response (which would be logical as the ribbons are thin (in terms of width) and tall, and since they're tall the vertical response *****).

Beat_Dominator
06-01-2006, 02:28 PM
But they act in a pistonic fashion and generate sound from a flat surface (not a dome like most tweeters) I would think that makes them very uni-directional.

dkmesa
06-01-2006, 11:46 PM
My friend had a pair, but totalled his car b4 he could install them. I could buy em and hook em up to 50 watts and tell you what they sound like :)

joetama
06-02-2006, 11:00 AM
But they act in a pistonic fashion and generate sound from a flat surface (not a dome like most tweeters) I would think that makes them very uni-directional.

I don't think this is true, I think they produce the sound from vibrations acrost the whole plane, sort of like a wave or the whole plane moving as one.... They are very biased up and down but left and right are very wide, because of the placement of the "motor" structure is usually vertical.

I'm reading up on them to understand more, but that is what I always heard in them.... For example the axis would be 10 deg vertical and 270 deg horizontal...

Some links....
http://www.magnepan.com/maggie_tech.php
http://www.us.martinlogan.com/technology/technology.html

A company that builds kick *** hybrid designs. Check out the section on the ART technology....
http://www.adam-audio.com/professional/

WeDgE
06-02-2006, 11:30 AM
I can't point to any specific data, but most ribbons I've seen are supposed to have good horizontal off-axis response (which would be logical as the ribbons are thin (in terms of width) and tall, and since they're tall the vertical response *****).

As per zaphaudio.com: "Note that horizontal dispertion for all of these tweeters is excellent, and very close to the on-axis response curve," (in reference to ribbon/planar tweets).

Vertical off-axis tests: http://www.zaphaudio.com/nondomes/standard.html

Hebrew Hammer
06-02-2006, 11:41 AM
the baddest planar speaker company is

http://www.wisdomaudio.com/products_infinite.html

one of if not the best hybrid company is

http://www.vonschweikert.com/vr9se.html

http://www.vonschweikert.com/vr11_speaker.html

joetama
06-02-2006, 11:59 AM
I have heard both of those, thought they were decent but was never a huge fan, one reason the price. Plus, a lot of "special" high end speakers sound too fake too thin or over done to me. I can't tell you what it is exactly, but my dad (who has almost 40 years in the audio industry, and learned from my grandpa who has nearly 70 experience) and I agree on this.

Hebrew Hammer
06-02-2006, 12:41 PM
I have heard both of those, thought they were decent but was never a huge fan, one reason the price. Plus, a lot of "special" high end speakers sound too fake too thin or over done to me. I can't tell you what it is exactly, but my dad (who has almost 40 years in the audio industry, and learned from my grandpa who has nearly 70 experience) and I agree on this.


you're crazy dude....I have had some serious seat time with the Von VR9se's on a set of tenor monoblocks...and have blown away just about anything I've heard...and I listened to the wisdoms at CES 2 years ago and "thin" is something they are not..more like insanely dynamic would be the right words

joetama
06-02-2006, 02:26 PM
I just don't like the sound of electrostatics and ribbon tweeters.... They just don't sound natural to my ears for some reason. I agree they are awesome, but put up against a piston system of equal price, I think the piston system would do them in.....

Beat_Dominator
06-02-2006, 02:52 PM
Electro-stats sounded awesome to me. I also like the Heil AMT's but they be $$$$.

X Ray
10-25-2007, 04:19 AM
Ribbons sound awesome. I had a pair of cheap ($220) Infinity (forgot the name of the actual company that was manufacturing them) ribbons when I was in high school. They sounded MUCH better than my Quart tweets, but the ribbons got stolen.

I'm still using some old school Quarts, but my **** is hard for some new ribbons.

I have some JBL ring radiator horns (pro audio), and I like the character of those as well.

Bottom line: I'll be ditching the quart domes for some ribbons or some rings.

joetama
10-25-2007, 06:19 AM
Holy old thread...