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View Full Version : Best resin expander, and fiberglassing advice???



sampson
05-27-2006, 09:06 PM
Hey whats up guys, Now that I have done a few fiberglass setups, I was wondering if I could get some of your opinions on resin expanders. Up until now I have been doing the classic... resin + mat, resin + mat, resin + mat, then bondo, sand, bondo sand etc.... Until finished. But after hearing the resin expander idea I did some research and found that people seem to be using everything for expander? I have seen aerosil, talcom power / baby powder, sawdust, the classic milkshake 2 X resin to 1 X bondo, as well as a few other ideas.

From your personal experience what has worked the best. I'm getting pretty **** good at fiberglassing and would like to try this new resin expander method and do it that way, to save time and $$$. From what I've heard it is a bit weaker, but not to the point where it really matters. Anyway let me know anything you want to post on the topic, advice would be awesome on what is the "best" expander to use, easiest to sand etc... Just anything you have learned in the past so I don't make those mistakes. Going for primarily sub enclosures here, maybe some kick panels, door panels, etc.. a bit later. But yeah any advice please throw it down, I'd love to learn by your mistakes instead of making them on my own ;). Thanks a lot you guys-Sampson

blue93corsica
05-28-2006, 10:14 AM
first off the expander and resin mix is done on the inside of enclosures and isn't ment to be sanded down, i personally use arosil powder, pour in my resin, and keep adding the powder until i have achieved the correct consistancy, then i add my mekp

this will be used to pour into the insides of kick panels, sub enclosures, etc, and what it will do is jusat stiffin the resined fleece or trunkliner whichever you use, but on the other hand you cant expect to use grill cloth then a whole bunch of expander and call it a box,

the box will already need to have adiquate strength, this doesn't nesacarily strength but rather stiffin enclosures that already have a very large amount of strength and just need a bit more

sampson
05-28-2006, 06:57 PM
yeah I understand the idea behind the aerosil + resin idea, with the comment of sanding down I was referring to the bondo + resin idea. That one I have read a few topics on and people say to sand down the high spots before it gets completely hard. But thanks for the input.

Would aerosil + resin be good if you only had the inital layer of matt down on top of the stretched fabric. By the sounds of it you are recommending more layers of mat, just wanting to clarify.

blue93corsica
05-28-2006, 10:44 PM
this will soley depend on how strong the enclosure with only your stretch fabric (depending on what your using) resined

if the enclosure is a bit weak still add a few layers of mat then arosil powder + resin for more strength

what im saying is if your using grill cloth (incredably thin) for your stretch fabric and plan on putting 2 mtx jack hammers in the box, arosil alone will not provide the strength your lookign for

req
05-28-2006, 11:00 PM
if you are doing kickpods, you can seriously use some thin material (thinner than fleece) and just use a resin expander inside.

from my expierence its as strong as need be this way. only problem is it will resonate easily, so some liquid sound deadener is usually needed inside. the best part is thers almost zero sanding this way, and kickpods\doorpods usually dont need incredible strength.

if you are talking a sub box, you will definatly just want to do fleece+matt, and honestly, its usually cheaper to do fiberglass + resin for strength than a resin expander. reason is, resin is exponentionally more expensive than fiberglass (espically if you buy both in bulk)

i got a 5 gallon tub of resin for ~$85 and i got a ton of yards of glass (enough for like 10 large boxes) for like ~$30.

yea its easier to use less layers of matte and apt for expander in stead, but you use up TONS more resin that way. like 3x as much. its good for trouble spots, but i dont like it for entire boxes.

id rather just do 3 or 4 more layers of matte. i dunno, i glass fast. i did two entire trunk corner boxes in a day once. so its up to you. i find it cheaper just do do the extra layers. more labor, but cheaper.

sampson
05-29-2006, 10:27 PM
awesome thanks for the info guys....req where the **** did you find 5 gallons of resin for 85$? I would love to get that much resin at that price. Where are you located at btw? Is it a special kind of cheap resin or something or whats the deal. Not trying to insult, but that is a really good price. Let me know.

dbornotdb
05-29-2006, 10:49 PM
http://www.uscomposites.com/

sampson
05-30-2006, 12:16 AM
EB General Purpose Polyester Resin for 85.00 for 5 gallons of it????

Is that what you guys are referring to? Is this the plae that req gets his resin??? Also how much does that weigh, and do they ship?. Go figure it is about as far away from me as possible while staying in the states. I'm up in Washington. Know of any good places up here?


....n/m just found that they do ship, but charge killer prices for it, know of any place like this in the Northwest? Thanks for the post.-Sampson

bjfish11
05-30-2006, 03:09 PM
it wont be 85 after shipping. Thats where i get my resin, and it ends up around 110 shipped to me. Cause they add shipping and then there is a like $20 hazardous materials fee.

sampson
05-31-2006, 02:33 AM
thanks for the info on the resin man, let me know via pm

iamamp3pimp
05-31-2006, 02:46 AM
Fiberglass site is saved to my favorites....

req
05-31-2006, 03:04 AM
yea thats where i got it. im in NY, i think it was like $94 after shipping now that i think about it. maybe 100. i dunnaw.

even if it was $100 after ship, that turns out to be $20\gallon wich is $15 cheaper per gallon than i can get in NY locally.

bjfish11
05-31-2006, 08:39 AM
yea, it definatly ends up cheaper, thats for sure. I think its around 32.99 or so a gallon here, but i havent even bothered to stop by and check it out lately.

PowerNaudio
05-31-2006, 09:30 AM
just a tip on fiberglass enclosures. i have been using this Polyester fabric. is very thick and elastic. once you pour your first layer of resin it will be very strong since its Polyester material and Polyester resin, strong enogh for pods and if for sub enclosures, that plus like 4 layers of mat "shape dependant" its all youll need.
and if extra strength is needed mix some of the saw dust with the resin and lay it inside the enclosure.

ramos
05-31-2006, 03:42 PM
Hey whats up guys, Now that I have done a few fiberglass setups, I was wondering if I could get some of your opinions on resin expanders. Up until now I have been doing the classic... resin + mat, resin + mat, resin + mat, then bondo, sand, bondo sand etc.... Until finished. But after hearing the resin expander idea I did some research and found that people seem to be using everything for expander? I have seen aerosil, talcom power / baby powder, sawdust, the classic milkshake 2 X resin to 1 X bondo, as well as a few other ideas.

From your personal experience what has worked the best. I'm getting pretty **** good at fiberglassing and would like to try this new resin expander method and do it that way, to save time and $$$. From what I've heard it is a bit weaker, but not to the point where it really matters. Anyway let me know anything you want to post on the topic, advice would be awesome on what is the "best" expander to use, easiest to sand etc... Just anything you have learned in the past so I don't make those mistakes. Going for primarily sub enclosures here, maybe some kick panels, door panels, etc.. a bit later. But yeah any advice please throw it down, I'd love to learn by your mistakes instead of making them on my own ;). Thanks a lot you guys-Sampson


Hard to beat the ease of sanding plane old rage gold. I don't like using cabosil, or an of the like for finishing work. It's always been easier for me to just work all the wrinkles and everything out before hand. :)

sampson
05-31-2006, 05:29 PM
Is rage gold really that much better than like just Bondo brand bondo? I've never used rage gold, always used the wal-mart cheap bondo myself, is there really that much of a difference, like more time to work with it, or goes on smoother or something. I mean I know I can just adjust the resin/hardner mix for more time, but just wondering what the perks are for using rage gold. I was thinking to use rage gold on the boxes that will get painted and the bondo brand if it is just going to get covered with carpet. Thanks for all the input on the fiberglass btw. Can't remember if it is 20 or 30 a gallon up here in Wa. I just wish I could find a boat shop that sold in bulk. Thanks for the info guys :), keep it comming if you can.-Sampson


And PowerNaudio could you please give me some example of the polyester fabric you are referring to, right now I have this really cheap light weight stuff that doesn't work well at all, would love to see what your referring to. Thanks man.

ramos
05-31-2006, 05:33 PM
Rage sand easier to me. But bondo has a couple new easier sanding offerings. I think one is called bondo gold. I used it a while back. It was pretty easy to sand. For mold fabric , I like to use swimsuit material I get at wally world . Stretches like nothing else, with no wrinkles in sight :)

PowerNaudio
05-31-2006, 07:54 PM
i wish i knew the name of the style or the way its woven. i just know they carry it at the fabric place i go to. its 100% polyester, like ramos said its also used in swimsuits. but the one i use is a little more porous then the swimsuit one. it stretches the same amount in every direction is the best i have found.
sorry that i cant remember the name but im sure if you go to a fabric store and explain to them what your looking for theyll be able to help you out. it took me about an hour to find the one im using since these people didnt sell much of it and it was like $7 a yard not bad.

if you cant find it, i can cut you a sample piece and send it to you so you can show them what youre looking for.

dbornotdb
06-01-2006, 07:32 PM
Rage Gold is FAR, FAR superior to Bondo brand products.

Bondo uses clays in the mix. Clays shrink. Therefor your filler WILL shrink.

Evercoat products, makers of the Rage fillers, use plastics in their fillers. They don't shrink.

Rage sands 1000x's better also.

The only time I use Bondo brand filler is in my "milkshake" mixes.

ramos
06-02-2006, 08:53 AM
Rage Gold is FAR, FAR superior to Bondo brand products.

Bondo uses clays in the mix. Clays shrink. Therefor your filler WILL shrink.

Evercoat products, makers of the Rage fillers, use plastics in their fillers. They don't shrink.

Rage sands 1000x's better also.

The only time I use Bondo brand filler is in my "milkshake" mixes.


What ratio do you use for the milkshake ? I have tried several different ratios. And have never found one I liked :)

dbornotdb
06-02-2006, 10:37 AM
What ratio do you use for the milkshake ? I have tried several different ratios. And have never found one I liked :)




I use 60% filler.......40% resin......MEKP for the 40% amount of resin......and none of the paste hardener.

Mix the filler and resin really good. Then add the MEKP and mix real well. You have roughly 20 minutes of working time depending on the heat and humidy where you are. Here, I am lucky to get 20 minutes.

A good thing about this mix is it dries darker than regular filler. So when sanding it, it provides it own guide coat.

Hope that was of some help to you.:cool:

ramos
06-02-2006, 10:48 AM
I use 60% filler.......40% resin......MEKP for the 40% amount of resin......and none of the paste hardener.

Mix the filler and resin really good. Then add the MEKP and mix real well. You have roughly 20 minutes of working time depending on the heat and humidy where you are. Here, I am lucky to get 20 minutes.

A good thing about this mix is it dries darker than regular filler. So when sanding it, it provides it own guide coat.

Hope that was of some help to you.:cool:

Yes sir, much help. Thank you. Is it thin enough to be self leveling ? :)

dbornotdb
06-02-2006, 02:18 PM
Yes sir, much help. Thank you. Is it thin enough to be self leveling ? :)



I move it around with a brush and kinda help it along.

Experiment with it and add more resin if you need. If I remember right, it was kinda thick last time I did it.

ramos
06-02-2006, 02:38 PM
Got another question while we're talking about filler. Anybody seen the uv activated body filler lately ? I loved that stuff, and everybody locally stopped selling it :)

dbornotdb
06-03-2006, 12:00 AM
No idea on that stuff, sorry.

sampson
06-05-2006, 03:48 AM
sorry ramos never even heard of that stuff. Thanks again to DB I'll be trying out that mix in a bit hopefully over the week I have off between quarters here comming up. I'm thinking about posting some pics of the fiberglass boxes I've done. I took some pretty good pics of them along the way, maybe make a tutorial or something.