PDA

View Full Version : Need Tower project ideas/help...



j3bus2k3
05-02-2006, 05:29 PM
Well, next year I move into my college apartment and need some Audio to acompany it. I already built a sub using a TangBand 8 that I'm happy with that I'll probably use but now I need help on towers/bookshelfs. I have a set $50 5 1/4" Sony's that simply wont cut it. I've been lookin through PE and found a few projects that stood out such as:
http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/mp-3/index.html
http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/noah8/index.html
http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/jubilee/index.htm

Guess I'm kinda looking for a tower to supliment that sub with any driver combo necessary. Price-wise, I'd like to keep it cheap like <$100 for the pair total. I'll take any advice or suggestions...really some education on what I should do...

Thanks Guys.

InhumanAcura
05-02-2006, 05:41 PM
2 CSS FR125's? a bit over your budget tho..

j3bus2k3
05-02-2006, 05:44 PM
Link? What are they?

^^^Sorry if thats newbish...

EDIT: The one link I found through google looked like horn's for $150 a pair...that kosher?

ballstothewall
05-02-2006, 05:47 PM
Will this also be a party setup??

j3bus2k3
05-02-2006, 05:49 PM
Will this also be a party setup??

:naughty: ...very much so...

InhumanAcura
05-02-2006, 05:49 PM
i paid like $150 shipped for th pair of drivers..i have them in the "pawo" horns..pretty impressive for 2 4.5" speakers..

http://www.acoustic-visions.com/~acoustic/products/subwoofer_drivers/exodus_fr125/

i wouldnt go for these if you want alot of output..they have alot for what they are, but not enough for something really loud or anything. sound very very nice tho

j3bus2k3
05-02-2006, 05:57 PM
Well, I dont need excedingly (sp?) loud. I just want something clear, clean and impressive so that when the music does go up, it doesnt sound like arse. And in terms of loudness, I cant go too loud or I'll really **** of the neighbors with the sub....If its good for an elevated listening level with music, it'd probably suit my needs perfectly. Its going to be getting ~80-100 watts if that makes a difference.

InhumanAcura
05-02-2006, 06:19 PM
Well, I dont need excedingly (sp?) loud. I just want something clear, clean and impressive so that when the music does go up, it doesnt sound like arse. And in terms of loudness, I cant go too loud or I'll really **** of the neighbors with the sub....If its good for an elevated listening level with music, it'd probably suit my needs perfectly. Its going to be getting ~80-100 watts if that makes a difference.

i wouldnt feel comfortable sending them that much power..they were more than loud enough for me while i was living in an apartment tho. powered by maybe 30w's..off the marantz im messing with now (under-rated 50wrms) they got a good deal louder.

heres a link to the design i used..

http://www.audio-resolution.com/zhorn/fr125s.html

heres a link to the ones i built..

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127655

joetama
05-02-2006, 06:21 PM
Single tweeter with a 6"-8" Mid Woofer, or a Horn with a 10"-12". If you want more volume go with the horn.....

j3bus2k3
05-02-2006, 06:26 PM
Hmm...well I think I may be ditching this receiver since it has no RCA preout for the sub...I was using a LOC for the sub :crap: so those aren't out of the picture as of yet...

j3bus2k3
05-02-2006, 06:32 PM
Single tweeter with a 6"-8" Mid Woofer, or a Horn with a 10"-12". If you want more volume go with the horn.....


Volume would be nice but sizewise how would that be? That woofer is bigger than ma' sub, and not to mention the size of the horn itself...

joetama
05-02-2006, 06:52 PM
Here is what I am talking about.... Using PA parts to build a decent home stereo system. The way to go if you want volume and clarity.

2 Different B&C Mid-Woofers 10" and 12".
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=294-658
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=294-660

2 Different Horn Combos, that would go pretty good with those woofers....

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=294-600
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=294-620

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-442
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-552

If you truly want to do something different than everyone else here, then there you go.....

InhumanAcura
05-02-2006, 07:11 PM
Here is what I am talking about.... Using PA parts to build a decent home stereo system. The way to go if you want volume and clarity.

2 Different B&C Mid-Woofers 10" and 12".
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=294-658
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=294-660

2 Different Horn Combos, that would go pretty good with those woofers....

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=294-600
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=294-620

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-442
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-552

If you truly want to do something different than everyone else here, then there you go.....

you not notice his budget?

joetama
05-02-2006, 07:14 PM
Yea, I did. Maybe he wants to go a little over??? It's hard to recomend cheaper gear......

j3bus2k3
05-02-2006, 09:59 PM
I wouldnt mind going a little over but ****, that was about $150 per speaker, lol. Not to mention the enclosure for that combo is probably too big.

What about smaller horns using 4 1/2" or 6 1/2" drivers? Pros, cons...?

joetama
05-02-2006, 10:19 PM
Problem with smaller horns is they don't go Low, if I'm thinking of what your talking about. And I just wouldn't do it.

I would look at the AA set because I still think it's going pretty **** cheap, I think. I can't even remember what ngsm13 and I paid for the pair when we got them. If your interested I can tell you some of the raw plans for ours...... They should be built in the next couple weeks then I'm doing plotting and such for them and posting it up.....

j3bus2k3
05-02-2006, 10:23 PM
Those MTM's or whatever the nomenclature was? I saw those and they're definitly on the list of possibilities (god **** that was hard to spell, lol). PM me the plans just in case I do pick those up. But wouldnt those pose the same problem as the horns? I.E. the ability to not pick up the bottom end? I've definitly got sub-bass taken care of but I'm worried about any freq gaps b/w where those mids will shine and where the sub shines...

brandontw
05-02-2006, 10:56 PM
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/2483/im0013922ba.jpg

InhumanAcura
05-02-2006, 11:30 PM
Those MTM's or whatever the nomenclature was? I saw those and they're definitly on the list of possibilities (god **** that was hard to spell, lol). PM me the plans just in case I do pick those up. But wouldnt those pose the same problem as the horns? I.E. the ability to not pick up the bottom end? I've definitly got sub-bass taken care of but I'm worried about any freq gaps b/w where those mids will shine and where the sub shines...

Im running the aa mtm's in some towers right now..Theyre definately worth the price, very happy with them. I think I paid $332 shipped for the two w/ unassembled x-overs.

joetama
05-02-2006, 11:48 PM
Boooo Line Arrays..... (Going to get hate mail on that comment.)

j3bus2k3
05-02-2006, 11:49 PM
$325?! Its not $165 for the pair? Fvck....I really liked the way they looked and how yours turned out; granted mine probably wont look half as good. Hmm...Maybe I should stick to PE drivers since I do have the whoesale account...:) I already have a tweeter that PE accidently shipped me so I'm 25% of they way towards a set of Bookshelfs, lol.

joetama
05-03-2006, 12:02 AM
Post up what drivers you think you might use if you don't use the AA's.....

InhumanAcura
05-03-2006, 12:03 AM
$325?! Its not $165 for the pair? Fvck....I really liked the way they looked and how yours turned out; granted mine probably wont look half as good. Hmm...Maybe I should stick to PE drivers since I do have the whoesale account...:) I already have a tweeter that PE accidently shipped me so I'm 25% of they way towards a set of Bookshelfs, lol.

lol, my bad man..for $325 shipped i got 4 mids, 2 tweets, and the parts to make 2 x-overs..if thats what youre thinking..

the tweets used in the set are like $55ea of parts express alone..

joetama
05-03-2006, 12:12 AM
NVM read what you wrote wrong.....

j3bus2k3
05-03-2006, 12:15 AM
I'll post up some drivers that had me droolin in a sec....

j3bus2k3
05-03-2006, 01:04 PM
Well, PE tech guy recommended a 2-way setup for simplicity of the build and crossover along with driver matching. I dunno though. We tossed around the idea of that TB tweeter (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=264-822&DID=7&raid=46&rak=264-822) with a dayton 7" woofer and then building the proper crossover. Any thoughts or suggestions? I know ya'll have some.

btnhfan
05-03-2006, 01:17 PM
Sorry for jacking, but Im in the same boat.

What do you guys think of these?

http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/daytoniii/dayton_iii.html

j3bus2k3
05-03-2006, 01:20 PM
I forgive you only because Ash kicks *** ;)

I was look at those earlier and they seemed like they would get the job done for not too much $$$

btnhfan
05-03-2006, 01:24 PM
Yea I was thinking the same thing.

Not too expensive, handle pretty good power.

joetama
05-03-2006, 04:07 PM
Those drivers should be pretty decent... A lot of people like the Tang Band drivers....

j3bus2k3
05-03-2006, 04:46 PM
Any suggestions on 2-way vs. 3-way? I looked on HT guide but some of their projects were alil too expensive...Which is better for a flatter response? I know the crossover is more difficult/complicated but how much more expensive is it?

joetama
05-03-2006, 05:07 PM
It isn't really which one has a flatter response, a 2-way will have good low end and mid range response, while a 3-way will have better low-end response. With a 2-way you are really doing 2 Cross-overs (High pass for tweeter and low pass for woofer) with a 3-way you are doing a 4 cross-overs. High pass for Tweeter, low pass and high pass for mid woofer, and low pass for low woofer....

j3bus2k3
05-03-2006, 05:10 PM
so 4 x-over's per tower? ****, that could get expensive couldnt it?

Both you and the PE tech guy said something about a "zobel network"...educate me, lol.

So for simplicity and moreover price, I think I'm leaning toward a pair of 2-way monitors....or just floor standing 2-ways...

joetama
05-03-2006, 05:22 PM
so 4 x-over's per tower? ****, that could get expensive couldnt it?

Both you and the PE tech guy said something about a "zobel network"...educate me, lol.

So for simplicity and moreover price, I think I'm leaning toward a pair of 2-way monitors....or just floor standing 2-ways...

Yea, you really end up doing a lot more work with a 3-way system.

Zobel Network:
It is an Inductance Compensator, the low freq driver will have some peaks in the impedence and this will lower and smooth out the peaks so you get a better smother responce. It is sometimes integrated into the cross-over but other people recommend put it after the cross-over.

Also, you can do a true bookshelf and then just build stands which would save wood. ;)

j3bus2k3
05-03-2006, 05:25 PM
Yea, you really end up doing a lot more work with a 3-way system.

Zobel Network:
It is an Inductance Compensator, the low freq driver will have some peaks in the impedence and this will lower and smooth out the peaks so you get a better smother responce. It is sometimes integrated into the cross-over but other people recommend put it after the cross-over.

Also, you can do a true bookshelf and then just build stands which would save wood. ;)

Cool...that makes a lot of sense now. So...nowinhere starts driver selection. PE guy told me to match impedance and look for sensitivities that were close w/i 1-2db. I'm set on using that TB tweeter since I only have to buy one, lol. I'll post up possible midranges and get an opinion and then I need x-over help ;)

joetama
05-03-2006, 05:29 PM
Right, if you are going with a 2-way system match the impedance of the drivers....

If you find a mid-range driver that you really love and it's twice the impedence as the tweeter and is -3db as sensitive then you can do a 2-way but double up the low drivers and it will work perfect.... ;)

Questions?

j3bus2k3
05-03-2006, 05:31 PM
nope. But the tweet is 8ohms so a 16ohm mid might be hard to find...or does it work with half the impedance? links in a few of the possible drivers...

joetama
05-03-2006, 05:39 PM
I spoke too soon with out thinking sorry....

To run 2 mids in Parallel they need 2x the impedance of the tweeter.

To run 2 mids in Series they need .5x the impedance of the tweeter.

j3bus2k3
05-03-2006, 05:39 PM
Tweet: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=264-822&DID=7&raid=46&rak=264-822
Dayton 6:http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-362
Hi Vi 6:http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=297-440
Dayont 6 1/2:http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-305
Dayton 7:http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-364
Dayton 8:http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-366
Usher 8:http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=296-616
Hi Vi D8:http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=297-425
Hi Vi F8:http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=297-445

yea...those all fit the bill just need some final help on which woofer size is best and then more specifically which one the individual drivers...

brandontw
05-03-2006, 05:40 PM
Boooo Line Arrays..... (Going to get hate mail on that comment.)

:rolleyes:

:crying:...Consider this Hate mail...:furious:

joetama
05-03-2006, 05:54 PM
Anything greater than a 6 but smaller than a 10 will prolly do good. Also, keep inmind where you want to cross over so that you have a good overlap so you aren't pushing the tweeter to go too low or the mid to go too high....

2.25k to 2.75k is usually a good place to start for crossover points. Especially with the tweeter you have. So, really your mid driver should go to atleast 2.75k or 3k without going out of it's range....

joetama
05-03-2006, 06:00 PM
So out of the ones that you picked this would prolly be decent ones to go with.....

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=297-445
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=296-616
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-305
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=297-440
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-362

Check out the responce graphs and find one that compliments the tweeter....

j3bus2k3
05-03-2006, 06:09 PM
Edited....

So out of those I got 3 on the money. You picked out the 6" Dayton, why not the 7? Is there a defining reason? I re-read your earlier edited post and saw I can do 2 mid's in series with a tweet. What about 2 6.5's? You said before that they'd have a better low-end response so would I be loosing that higher end? And Would that be a 3-way setup or still a 2-way?

joetama
05-03-2006, 06:16 PM
Well yea, you read anything a speaker company says with a grain of salt.

I would look at the Dayton 6" this one here
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-362

Yea give me a little bit and I'll plug them into the computer and see what i get....

joetama
05-03-2006, 06:17 PM
What are some rough dementions of the box that you are thinking?

j3bus2k3
05-03-2006, 06:21 PM
The dayton 6 fits the bill perfectly. I couldnt care too much about the size of the box, maybe 9" wide and however tall and deep.

brandontw
05-03-2006, 08:28 PM
this thread got me thinking about building some new speaks for my room, scince my line arrays wont fit.

some simple two way bookshelves would be nice, but i want alot of low end out of them scince i wont have a sub, i was thinking:



http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-366
or
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=296-616

and

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=275-085


i have never tried ribbon/planar tweets in one of my project, so it sounds cool.

joetama
05-03-2006, 08:32 PM
So, after plotting them it looks like they would be great in an .5 or .6 cube box with a 2" round port (Parts Express) tuned at 45 Hz (5.5 inch long port) would be about perfect for the best low end responce.

High end crossover at 2.5kHz with a 3rd order 18db/oct.
Low end crossover at 2.5kHz with a 2nd order 12db/oct with a Zobel Network added on (a must because it has a large impedance rise at 75 Hz according to modeling).

j3bus2k3
05-03-2006, 09:26 PM
Whats required part-wise for those cross-overs? And a diagram would be super! lol. Where should I think about putting the sub's crossover at?

joetama
05-03-2006, 09:33 PM
Oh come on man you can do this can't you.... LOL, just kidding... I want credit for this lol.... Give me a little bit.....

joetama
05-03-2006, 09:55 PM
Here is a simple cross-over with small zobel network included.

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/1016/crossover6lw.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

joetama
05-03-2006, 10:07 PM
BTW you need to round the values there....

j3bus2k3
05-04-2006, 12:56 AM
Round the values on the x-over diagram, correct? I'ma hit up PE tomorrow for a full out quote for this bishes. LOL, dont worry about props, you'll get an honorable mention or two in the thread I make when I start these ;) and ygpm good sir.

joetama
05-04-2006, 02:07 AM
Good luck and have fun!!! If you have any more qustions let me know!

j3bus2k3
05-04-2006, 11:25 AM
Yea one last one, port length was 5.5". How do I incorporate the flare into that? I remember seeing inanother thread that you use like 1.5" of the flare as port length. so thats 3" just in the flared part so would I only need to cut a 2.5" piece and stick all 3 together? lol, thanks again.

joetama
05-04-2006, 01:21 PM
If you use the Precision Sound Ports from Parts Express then you can use this handy little calculator

.6 cuft box tunned to 45 Hz with a 2" flaired round port.

5.51" strait tube with ends then attached making the total length 6.51". Different people believe different things for tubes and it depends on the tube and end flage a lot. I would just do what the company says who builds the tubes, they know more about it than I do.....

http://www.psp-inc.com/
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=268-348

j3bus2k3
05-04-2006, 02:51 PM
and they need to be at least a diameters distance from every wall correct?