PDA

View Full Version : Its time for bigger and better things.



btnhfan
04-25-2006, 08:43 PM
I need all you HT guys to help me out.

Im looking to get a brand new 5 channel receiver, and get a surrond sound setup in my room.
For parties and various other things.


Right now I have a simple 3 channel, 2 bookshelf speakers and a sub.



I would like to have the speakers be diy, not any like 5 channel complete sets, and Id be willing to do crossovers for them providing it isnt that hard.

And Id like to keep it on the cheaper side if possible.

Thanks alot.

negativezeroz
04-25-2006, 08:49 PM
Onkyo TX-SR503, Pioneer VSX-816-S, Pioneer VSX-516-S

If you could find a Denon or HK for cheap, that'd be the way I'd go. Yes I realize those are 7.1's but it's hard to find a 5.1 nowadays. Just turn the rear back surrounds off...5.1 solved.

InhumanAcura
04-25-2006, 09:02 PM
id highly recommend the ascendant mtms..cheap, and im really happy with the performance.

btnhfan
04-25-2006, 09:07 PM
The TMs or the MTMs?

I saw they reccomend the mtm's for center channel.


And I dont see any specs for them on their site.

InhumanAcura
04-25-2006, 09:17 PM
Im using the mtm's as both the center and mains..plan on using the tm's for the other 4 channels...

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=155373

PV Audio
04-25-2006, 09:20 PM
*Italian accent* D'Appolito grazie!

btnhfan
04-25-2006, 09:23 PM
Lemans I dont speak Italian.

bimma85
04-25-2006, 09:24 PM
might wanna specify $. Cheaper side to some is 1k maybe 5k **** 10k is on the low end in some peoples mind :)

btnhfan
04-25-2006, 09:30 PM
Definatley under 1k.



800ish.

thylantyr
04-25-2006, 10:24 PM
Im looking to get a brand new 5 channel receiver, and get a surrond sound setup in my room. For parties and various other things.

If there is a party in your room and other t h i n gs, maybe invest in a hidden
vid camera instead of surround sound :wink:








/joke

Crown_amps
04-25-2006, 10:39 PM
what kinda sub are you using now?

and when you upgrade will you be uprading you bass ?

btnhfan
04-25-2006, 10:43 PM
Bass is good, and will be good. Thats not a problem.


Video camera?

Hmmmmmm.....

btnhfan
04-26-2006, 03:25 AM
Anyone else have any other speaker reccomendations?

joetama
04-26-2006, 01:08 PM
What kinda specs are you looking for? How big is your room? How many PPL are their going to be? How important is quality to you? And elaberate more on your current gear that you will still be using! Then I can give you a inteligent rec....

Oh and I forgot, music more or movies more?

btnhfan
04-26-2006, 02:37 PM
More music than movies, but definatley movies as well.


I want it to sound clean, but I dont want everything to be costing an arm and a leg.

Room is probably 15x18x12high

joetama
04-26-2006, 02:52 PM
Receiver wise, I'm a huge fan of Rotel and Yamaha.

The dual Mid & Tweeter Setup would be good if your sub doesn't do so good in upper registers, other wise the Mid & Tweeter would be fine. Anyway, Ascendent setup is a good way to go. For the whole system, L&R center and surround....

btnhfan
04-26-2006, 03:01 PM
Sounds good.

Ascendant is the way to go.


Would it be better if I used the dual mid and tweeter for the L&R and then the single mid and tweeter for everything else?

joetama
04-26-2006, 03:11 PM
Dual mid and tweet on left and right.

30Hz ~ 300Hz to 400Hz Low-Mid
300Hz to 400Hz ~ 1.5KHz to 2.5 Khz High-Mid
Tweet everything else.

Center Channel
Since it's voice usually I would not cross over anywhere in the vocal range ie 700 to 3.5K which makes a hard choice, ppl will disagree with me on this. You will want the mid to go high or the tweeter to go low. Those Vifa XT25 Tweeters will do it, so i would XOVER low. If I remember right those tweets are clean down to 400 I think, but by no mean would I run them THAT low.... Were still experimenting before we build.

Surrounds.

30Hz~1.6 to 2K Mid
Tweeter Rest of highs...

thylantyr
04-26-2006, 03:59 PM
The Jon Marsh 'Modula' designs would be on my list of budget high end loudspeakers.

[see anything with the words modula on this forum or Dayton RS]
http://www.htguide.com/forum/forumdisplay.php4?f=6

Because;

1. He's a clever analog designer that has optimized his passive crossover
{CE filter that mimicks 8th order slopes} for the new Dayton Reference drivers
to extract the best SQ possible from 'metal drivers' which are notorious for
sounding edgy without a proper crossover design.

2. The Dayton reference tweeter cost about $50 each and competes with
tweeters costing double or triple from name brand manufacturers.

3. All the engineering work done including the use of PE cabinets, IIRC.

IIRC, the original Modula design didn't use Dayton, but he converted the design
to use Dayton drivers.

Wildcard:

Dr. K MTM
http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/dr-k-mtm/index.html

This might be cheaper because;

Same type of design but only a 4th order crossover which would be considered the
minimum required to make the metal drivers sound good. But the Modula's 8th order
should rule more. Simpler crossover design = less cost.

ballstothewall
04-26-2006, 04:07 PM
Dual mid and tweet on left and right.

30Hz ~ 300Hz to 400Hz Low-Mid
300Hz to 400Hz ~ 1.5KHz to 2.5 Khz High-Mid
Tweet everything else.

Center Channel
Since it's voice usually I would not cross over anywhere in the vocal range ie 700 to 3.5K which makes a hard choice, ppl will disagree with me on this. You will want the mid to go high or the tweeter to go low. Those Vifa XT25 Tweeters will do it, so i would XOVER low. If I remember right those tweets are clean down to 400 I think, but by no mean would I run them THAT low.... Were still experimenting before we build.

Surrounds.

30Hz~1.6 to 2K Mid
Tweeter Rest of highs...


Whats your opinion on crossing over in that vocal range on a setup that is going to be just a 2.1 home audio (some movie) setup? Is it nearly as critical since it isn't a center channel, and from my understanding of surround sound, the center carries alot of the load? I am just wondering if I'm should look into rethinking my next design a little to accomidate the cross over under 700hz.

My current plans are tripple AA 6.5's with one of the K1 tweets (http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=4946185.10725&pid=1824) off of madisound at 2khz.

Ideas?

Thanks

-Ryan

thylantyr
04-26-2006, 04:20 PM
I don't see a real reason why you'd change design methodology
because it's a center channel. In fact, there are some great
designs where the center channel is more complex in design than the
mains. Even these designs with 4 drivers seem to 'busy' for my taste
but they are engineered correctly.

http://www.selahaudio.com/id71.html

btnhfan
04-26-2006, 04:37 PM
What do you guys think about any of these kits on madisound?

http://www.madisound.com/kits.html

joetama
04-26-2006, 06:57 PM
Reason why I do it different in the center channel is it handles most of the vocals/spoken word, especially in movies. And by crossing over in the vocal range you get the same voice coming from 2 places and from 2 different types of transducers which can sound a little funny.

Plus, if they don't cross over just right then you can end up with a drop in the frequency response at an important vocal point.

However with L&R mains you get a lot of other concerns. I would rather run a 3 way system that is set up so everything below 300 Hz is ran on one part of the load, 300 Hz to 3 or 4 kHz are ran on the other and then a tweeter caries the rest of the load. And honestly it really really depends on your speakers, more than anything, because for the Ascendant Audio stuff, the mid-range speaker isn’t going to sound very good up at 4 kHz because it’s not designed for that. So, you have to weigh out what you want. Otherwise, 1.6 kHz or 2 kHz is usually a safe place to crossover with out putting any undue stress on your tweeter or mid-range.

btnhfan
04-27-2006, 02:01 AM
Would the ascendant set be better than any of those other on madisound?


And you want to stick with the same speaker for all channels correct?

AcidicDreams
04-27-2006, 02:34 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=9715772589&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

thylantyr
04-27-2006, 03:13 AM
Would the ascendant set be better than any of those other on madisound?

The real answer is. What sounds best to you. Since you can't audition the speakers
mentioned, you are essentially gambling that you will be satsified. If you can't
audition, you are trusting the design by analyzing it closer to make sure it's
engineered well, and/or trusting user testimonials.

And you want to stick with the same speaker for all channels correct?
It's nice to have all speakers the same, but there is nothing written in stone
that you must do it.

btnhfan
04-27-2006, 04:24 AM
Reason why I do it different in the center channel is it handles most of the vocals/spoken word, especially in movies. And by crossing over in the vocal range you get the same voice coming from 2 places and from 2 different types of transducers which can sound a little funny.

Plus, if they don't cross over just right then you can end up with a drop in the frequency response at an important vocal point.

However with L&R mains you get a lot of other concerns. I would rather run a 3 way system that is set up so everything below 300 Hz is ran on one part of the load, 300 Hz to 3 or 4 kHz are ran on the other and then a tweeter caries the rest of the load. And honestly it really really depends on your speakers, more than anything, because for the Ascendant Audio stuff, the mid-range speaker isnít going to sound very good up at 4 kHz because itís not designed for that. So, you have to weigh out what you want. Otherwise, 1.6 kHz or 2 kHz is usually a safe place to crossover with out putting any undue stress on your tweeter or mid-range.

So in essence you are saying to get the 3 ways instead of 2 ways?

joetama
04-27-2006, 12:06 PM
So in essence you are saying to get the 3 ways instead of 2 ways?

Yes the L&R would be a 3-way. Other wise if you double the mids you would have to fine 2 mids with 2x the DCR as the tweeter. Also, be aware that the overall resistance of the AA stuff is going to be around 4 ohms and most receivers can do 4 ohms but are set up for a min of 6 ohms.

Correction on the Center Channel. After playing with the stuff last night the tweeter wont extend down low enough for what I said. So for a center channel I would run the mids up to around, but a little lower than 3k, because they will extend that high and sound fine.

btnhfan
04-27-2006, 08:01 PM
For the satellite speakers those would be fine with 2 ways right?

btnhfan
05-03-2006, 03:40 PM
I think Ive decided on these MTM's, unless anyone has any objections.

http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/daytoniii/dayton_iii.html


And then go with aa mt's maybe.

joetama
05-03-2006, 04:07 PM
LOL, wow you sound sure of yourself!

btnhfan
05-03-2006, 04:10 PM
Ha well when I say Ive decided, means Im leaning more towards them because they are cheaper, and from the review and everything should sound pretty good.

joetama
05-03-2006, 04:23 PM
Yea, they pretty much outline everything there for you....

btnhfan
05-03-2006, 04:25 PM
How hard is it to make crossovers?

Ive never done it before.

joetama
05-03-2006, 04:30 PM
Well, it can be HARD and easy depends on your drivers and setup. If you can solder then building them is easy, but designing them can be difficult.....

btnhfan
05-03-2006, 04:56 PM
Well the designs are there so the hardest part is soldering right?

joetama
05-03-2006, 05:02 PM
Are you getting a kit or going off of someone else's design?

btnhfan
05-03-2006, 05:08 PM
He has a design for it on the page.

joetama
05-03-2006, 05:18 PM
Ok on AA's page, all you should have to do is order the parts PE, and make sure you don't get the cheap parts however. Then lay them out on some sort of backer and solder them together....

btnhfan
05-03-2006, 07:47 PM
How do you think the AA MT's will do with those dayton mtms?

joetama
05-03-2006, 07:50 PM
Huh? I personally have never head the Daytons but the AA's are good, but not fantastic, so i'm sure you couldn't be doing much worse going with the Daytons..... Not sure the question really.....

btnhfan
05-03-2006, 08:04 PM
Well I mean I thought you were supposed to match the speakers, but thylantyr said you didnt have to.

Idk isnt there some way of telling if theyd be a good match or not?


I probably could do better, but I cant really spend all that much more on speakers.

joetama
05-03-2006, 08:06 PM
Ok, what are you trying to match? Tweeter to mid-range or what?

btnhfan
05-04-2006, 12:27 AM
No its more like the 3 way daytons to 2 way surrounds.

joetama
05-04-2006, 01:08 AM
There is nothing wrong with running 3 way fronts and 2-way surrounds. Thats what I am running right now!