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View Full Version : ed ****ed me, new hu time



pwnt by pat
03-17-2006, 03:35 PM
ED has ****ed me (well, more accurately CDD of Russa). SO, very soon, I need to get a new head unit. I do have a couple of requirementes, however:

at LEAST 30 bands of up front eq'ing per side
24 db crossovers
bandpassed rear (for going 2-way active fronts)
NOT Eclipise or Pioneer - I hate eclipse' layout and I just hate Pioneer

What I've taken a quick look at is the H701 processor from Alpine. With the Alpine IVA-D300, I get the processing up front. There are a couple of auctions on ebay for them all ending about the same time. I figure maybe I can snatch one up for a couple hundred. Then combine it with the h701. Or just go with a 98xx and the rux-c701 and h701...

Are there any other options available?

alphakenny1
03-17-2006, 03:36 PM
how about a 9860 with an h701. 9860 can control the h701 without the use of a rux701.

or possibly a p9 combo as well. there is no HU out there with 30 bands of eq on each side all in one chassis.

btw, how did eD screw up this time?

AcidicDreams
03-17-2006, 03:37 PM
are you talking about one of those URAL Hu's? Those looked neat.. I'm kinda interested in what happened?

squeak9798
03-17-2006, 03:39 PM
There are no all-in-one headunits that have built in 30 band EQs. So you are going to have to look for a HU + external EQ.

The Pioneer P9 combo fits your requirements aswell I do believe.

squeak9798
03-17-2006, 03:39 PM
btw, how did eD screw up this time?

The group buy was cancelled.

squeak9798
03-17-2006, 03:41 PM
Or you could get a headunit like the Alpine 9855 and add something like the Audiocontrol DQS. 6 inputs, 6 outputs, with 30 band of equalization per channel.


Zapco is also coming out with a new processor that has many of the features of the H701 and then some.


Look into Altomobile aswell.

alphakenny1
03-17-2006, 03:46 PM
The group buy was cancelled.

good job eD!! :handclap: :rolleyes:

pwnt by pat
03-17-2006, 03:51 PM
It was mostly cdd's fault. They wrote up a contract in russian, I guess to throw off ed, which the contract was dated for 02.

Also, they refused to honor warranties past 10 days of purchase (by the time it gets into the states, it's past 14) and you'd only get a 40% refund... not the origional terms of the deal. Search ural at icix and you get the full post.

alphakenny1
03-17-2006, 03:57 PM
for the lazy people, http://www.icixsound.com/vb/showthread.php?t=23600.

squeak9798
03-17-2006, 04:01 PM
<IP Banned>


Someone wanna post the meat 'n potata's of the thread here ?

flakko
03-17-2006, 04:04 PM
ill post the whole thing:


Through the end of the day we will be issuing returns of funds for the URAL Group Buy.

After what I feel is pretty ridiculous I feel it is in everyone’s best interest to move away from this.

Reasons.

Initial Expressed Terms :

Warranty through AAC. It was expressed via e-mail to me the URAL's would be replaced if a problem through e-mail at the expense of AAC. This was confirmed via e-mail 1/30/2006.

We insured that the items were in stock for immediate shipment upon end of group buy estimating it would take roughly 1 week to arrive in transit after shipment as the one I personally purchased did. This was confirmed as of 1/30/2006.

This were major issues to offering the product for group buy. So we went forward with it after evaluating our own product.

Issues which are giant red flags for us.

1. Orders were put in on the 1st. No problem. We did not even receive confirmation on the reception of the order until the 6th. This was forwarded 3 times before I received a response.

2. Invoice for payment was requested on the 1st. First thing I got resembling a invoice was yesterday stating a total finally. This total being larger than the estimated shipping total. This is not that big of a deal but shipping estimates changing in the tune of 18% seems strange. UPS doesn't change fee's 18% inside of 60 days. This isn't a huge deal. It is however something that seemed odd.

3. Finally the total was delivered on 3/16 blaming Russian export procedures. Keep in mind this whole process took only a few days previously. Either 1. someone isn't doing their job or 2. We could potentially be waiting a undetermined amount of time for the product. Option #2 is not a option currently as expressed delivery was inside of the month.

With the total delivered was a contract. To say this contract makes me nervous is a understatement. Included in this contract are the following clauses and problems.

There's two halves to the contract. One in Russian. One in English. I can't read Russian and no one else here can. I'm not going to sign something I can't read. This is apparently translated but what is translated correctly and or poorly. There are a few errors in the manual. What if there is a error here? Well. The error could result in any number of things like us never getting the decks, there being no warranty, and us getting the wrong pieces.

"Delivery date of the goods not later than April 30, 2006"
"Terms of contract until 31, March, 2002"

It seem odd to you that the contract expires before it's signed meaning nothing at all in the contract is at legal or valid?

"Seller has the right to demand defective goods back. The delivery and return of the defective goods are to be paid by the seller within ten days from the date of the buyers order"

So not only do you not get a replacement. But you can't even get it fixed unless you send it back within 10 days of it being shipped from the date of order. It's already been in excess of 10 days. Unless we go by the contract date. Assuming it takes another 16 days to ship. it'll be expired by the time it arrives and you'll still be responsible for the shipping costs. By this they can demand they get product back, at your cost, and you get nothing in return. This is a bit the opposite of that expressed via e-mail before the group buy.

"In case of any delay in delivery of the goods as compared with the time stipulated in the contract, the seller shall pay to the buyer penalty at the rate of 0,1 (one tenth) percent of the value of nondelivered goods for every commenced day but not more than 40 (forty) percents of the value of goods which were not delivered in time."

So essentially since the contract is expired by a few years BEFORE IT'S SIGNED you also get stuck with only 40% of your money back in the event the product never arrives at all.

My favorite. It makes sense but it's still my favorite.

"In case of impossibility to set the situation by negotiations all disputes and difference are to be referred for settlement without recourses to the courts of law, to the Foreign Trade Arbitration commission at the Russian Chamber of Commerce and Industry"

So after I sign this contract that makes no sense. That doesn't require the seller to deliver the product at all that if it even wasn't expired would only entitle me and my customers to a 40% refund on the goods sold. I'd get to go to Russia on top of that to spend more money to win an un-winnable argument.

I have no reason to believe AAC would do any of things like not deliver the product or send defective product but if they did or anything happens. No one has any right to any warranty work despite what was expressed to me and given the fact the contract has clear as day differences with communication with me prior to the delivery of the contract regarding the same situations. It seems like a really stupid thing to move forward.

The things that made this group buy tick were the warranty expression of the manufacture that if a problem arose a replacement would be sent by them and the expedited process of shipping.

Now that this has already taken so long. There are no guarantee’s of delivery and no guarantee of warranty or service at all in the contract I'm required to sign to get the goods it's a bad idea to move forward.

Customers orders will be cancelled and refunded today. Money has been sitting in ESCROW at the bank waiting to be transferred to their accounts until I pulled it out of that account about 20 minutes ago to return it to customers.

Someone else may have better luck with this unit and I believe it's a great unit. On the other hand I'm not putting my *** and my name on the line for a company who I don't have ownership in, didn't do engineering with, and don't have any recourse to hold them responsible for anything. I’ve been burned in the past putting too much faith in vendors and I refuse to do it these days. It’s not worth the time and the BS that will come back to us in the event of a mix-up.

Now that the things that have held the group buy together have changed I do not believe weeks of e-mail are going to fix these items and it would just mean more waiting. Since my e-mails normally go un-answered for a few days at a time or more I have no desire to drag this into next week.

When holding a group buy it's our responsibility to do what is best for our clients. In this instance I do not believe it is in anyone’s best interest to move forward.

The contract I’m being asked to sign has already expired. The information expressed to me has been changed. I can’t in my right mind move forward and put myself and employee’s on the line when I’m being asked to waive my clients right to warranty based on a contract that makes zero sense to me when it’s already taken too long to get this done. We discussed this inside the office and the decision is unanimous that the orders need to be canceled.

It has not gone this way for whatever reason. Refunds will be sent to customers over the period of today. Depending on your CC company funds may not show up immediately and may take 2-3 days to process. If this is a concern to you please call Elemental Designs at 319.665.6350.

I'm sorry I couldn't pull through this one for you guys. To get the product I've been given this contract which does not represent any positive result for any problems that could arise and legal 'OUT' in the event a problem occurs for someone else. I have no major reason to believe major issues would arise but if they do. We're all screwed. I'm not going to be responsible for that.

A good product and hopefully someone in the future will have more success bringing it into the US than me.

AcidicDreams
03-17-2006, 04:04 PM
nm flakko beat me

iceteebone
03-17-2006, 04:05 PM
<IP Banned>


Someone wanna post the meat 'n potata's of the thread here ?


x2

UndercoverPunk
03-17-2006, 04:08 PM
Geeee... I TOTALLY didn't see anything like this coming.... :rolleyes:

AcidicDreams
03-17-2006, 04:08 PM
eD + random russian people.... hmmm sounds reliable as a K car

squeak9798
03-17-2006, 04:13 PM
Geeee... I TOTALLY didn't see anything like this coming.... :rolleyes:


Yeah...big surprise.

iagrdshaka
03-17-2006, 04:28 PM
lol @ eDuh

AVSTANG02
03-17-2006, 04:29 PM
I don't blame ED...

iceteebone
03-17-2006, 04:52 PM
i'm confused. ben organizes a group buy for a product he hadn't even got ahold of? he started selling a product before he signed a contract to even get them?

squeak9798
03-17-2006, 04:59 PM
This was one of those deals where right from the beginning you knew it wasn't going to actually happen.

UndercoverPunk
03-17-2006, 05:11 PM
I don't blame ED...


I do.... they went about it like a bunch of n00bXi.... I'm a retard and I would have handled it way better than that...

squeak9798
03-17-2006, 05:14 PM
I'm a retard

I'll agree with that !!

pwnt by pat
03-17-2006, 05:18 PM
Yeah. It was all looking too good to be true but at least I got my money back ;)

Back on subject

I really like the screen of the 9855. Does it have the ability to control the h701 like the 60? The DQS would work, if I have the room for something that huge...

squeak9798
03-17-2006, 05:21 PM
I really like the screen of the 9855. Does it have the ability to control the h701 like the 60?


Nope.

Only the 9860 (I think the new 9861 aswell) and some of the video source units have the ability. With the 9855 you'd still need the RUX-C701

FoxPro5
03-17-2006, 09:21 PM
How could this be true, ED's track record is clean as whistle! I mean stuff like this never happens over there....their group buys are awesome!! <---- That is sarcastic as I can sound in writing, sorry! :)

How about the DRZ9255 Pat?

ngsm13
03-17-2006, 09:35 PM
Geeee... I TOTALLY didn't see anything like this coming.... :rolleyes:

JAJAJAJAAAAAAAAJAJAJAAAAAAJAJA!

No ****.

nG

Randy Savage
03-17-2006, 09:37 PM
i'm confused. ben organizes a group buy for a product he hadn't even got ahold of? he started selling a product before he signed a contract to even get them?


Sounds like Ben to me!

pwnt by pat
03-17-2006, 10:36 PM
How could this be true, ED's track record is clean as whistle! I mean stuff like this never happens over there....their group buys are awesome!! <---- That is sarcastic as I can sound in writing, sorry! :)

How about the DRZ9255 Pat?

$750 ebay head unit with only 5-Band Parametric Equalizer

squeak9798
03-17-2006, 11:25 PM
$750 ebay head unit with only 5-Band Parametric Equalizer

And it only has 18db slopes

UndercoverPunk
03-17-2006, 11:29 PM
And it only has 18db slopes
And it was ugly as ****!

pwnt by pat
03-17-2006, 11:40 PM
Aren't 18db slopes supposed to have phasing problems?

pwnt by pat
03-18-2006, 12:20 PM
I'm looking in the 9860 manual and something is a little suprising to me...

They use an h701 for an example when "setting up an external processor" (pg 30). In the eq settings (pg 35) you only get 5 channels of eq for the different speakers and 2 channels of eq for the sub? Can anyone verify this or can you use all 31 bands / channel like the h701 offers?

http://www.alpine-usa.com/images/products/documents/DVA-9860_OM.pdf

adio
03-18-2006, 04:17 PM
This was one of those deals where right from the beginning you knew it wasn't going to actually happen.
i had that same feeling

squeak9798
03-18-2006, 07:28 PM
Aren't 18db slopes supposed to have phasing problems?

Phase shift in a car audio setting is almost completely worthless to worry about for several reasons. I could list them if you really want...but just know that it's not really something to concern yourself with in a car audio setting.


They use an h701 for an example when "setting up an external processor" (pg 30). In the eq settings (pg 35) you only get 5 channels of eq for the different speakers and 2 channels of eq for the sub? Can anyone verify this or can you use all 31 bands / channel like the h701 offers?

The H701 has the option for either parametric equalization or graphic equalization. If you set the H701 to run parametric, you get 5 bands per full range channel, and 2 for the sub (and I think 2 for the center). In graphic mode, you can have 31 bands per full range channel, and IIRC 10 bands for the sub and center.

Tirefryr
03-18-2006, 08:52 PM
HA, why would they even continue to deal with these people? And confirmation via email. Get real. . . I could see this for a few units, but for such a large order and with customs issues. . . . If they knew how to properly run their business, they would never have been in this situation in the first place. Seems like a BS excuse to get out of some more trouble.

chadillac3
03-18-2006, 11:14 PM
Nevermind...

faulkton
03-18-2006, 11:37 PM
man what a joke company..who would deal with these people? I never really followed any ED drama or understood why everyone here thought they were total retards..but after hearing about this deck for some time..and then reading that...man i wouldnt give them a penny. They are the president bush of the Car audio world.

faulkton
03-18-2006, 11:40 PM
they are the raisden of the entire industry

faulkton
03-18-2006, 11:43 PM
Don't feel bad for me guys. Certainly not. I took on the project knowing full well this could happen.



then why would you take money and advertise the fcking at all? Only a true fcking idiot would do what ED did..i really am astonished..ive seen retards..literally retarded people..with more common sense and business smarts than they have displayed.

pwnt by pat
03-19-2006, 12:31 AM
Can we get some off topic post deletion here?

chadillac3
03-19-2006, 10:15 AM
then why would you take money and advertise the fcking at all? Only a true fcking idiot would do what ED did..i really am astonished..ive seen retards..literally retarded people..with more common sense and business smarts than they have displayed.

You really are a smart one...


Edit: LOLOLOLOL, I actually got a -1 rating thingy for this...comment from the jackass was "pwn3d."

Double Edit: Woohoo!! Double negative comments; why I bother with this forum I don't know, but bring it on keyboard commandos! At least this person was brave enough to put their name.

Turns out the person gave the name of someone else...talk about a nutless wonder.

Fosgate Forever
03-19-2006, 12:16 PM
man what a joke company..who would deal with these people? I never really followed any ED drama or understood why everyone here thought they were total retards..but after hearing about this deck for some time..and then reading that...man i wouldnt give them a penny. They are the president bush of the Car audio world. no i think there worse than that they're the Jimmy Carter of the car audio world.

AVSTANG02
03-19-2006, 12:22 PM
i'm confused. ben organizes a group buy for a product he hadn't even got ahold of? he started selling a product before he signed a contract to even get them?

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

Looks like he needed the money from the sales to purchase the units.

pwnt by pat
03-19-2006, 12:54 PM
Back on topic!

chadillac3
03-20-2006, 10:16 AM
:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

Looks like he needed the money from the sales to purchase the units.

Or maybe he wanted to see how many people were really serious...you'd be shocked at how many people you'll see say they're "in" and then not pay for something like this.

On topic...H701 is a no-brainer IMO, although it is more expensive.