PDA

View Full Version : If You Know Car Performance Help!!



paintballproam
03-15-2006, 10:44 PM
i was just thinking , if i take my scuba tank ( 80cf 3000psi) and sent a hose with a shut of valve into my intake or throttle body and had it set up so that with a pull of a lever for like a ball valve on the inside of my car, it would give a shot of air at a fairly decent psi into the engine creating boost. Would this work? If not why? i under stand this would not work the same as a turbo.

docutech
03-15-2006, 10:51 PM
What about the fuel to match? A stock fuel pump will still pump the same amount of fuel. Assuming you have a carburator it will interfeere with your fuel/air mixture and if you have fuel injection it will just blow a lot of air. I dont consider myself a performance expert but I am certain that it wont work.

paintballproam
03-15-2006, 10:54 PM
it is fuel injection, hence the throttle body. It would run less rich and i would probably need to upgrade the fuel pump, injectors and the ecu

paintballproam
03-15-2006, 10:58 PM
any more comments

azbass
03-15-2006, 11:00 PM
do it, and tell us how it goes?

paintballproam
03-15-2006, 11:02 PM
the scuba tank is sitting next to my car and it is full. I also work at a hardware store so i think i will and i will post results

azbass
03-15-2006, 11:05 PM
get pics too

docutech
03-15-2006, 11:05 PM
the scuba tank is sitting next to my car and it is full. I also work at a hardware store so i think i will and i will post results


Mabe put it on a dyno first so that you can compare results?

Chevyaudio
03-15-2006, 11:09 PM
dont over do it the first go around if you end up doing this. Start off with a lower PSI blast.

paintballproam
03-15-2006, 11:11 PM
i will start off small and work my way up i do have a regulator on it

dalucifer
03-15-2006, 11:11 PM
hmmm..not sure if im correct or not, but i wouldnt do it. Could put to much pressure on the block and other components. Gotta remember that most turbo's/supercharger's give no more than 16 lbs of boost ( SC bout 8 and turbo's bout 16 and even then thats alot). Just my take, if u wanna take the change let us know how its goes..

Chevyaudio
03-15-2006, 11:12 PM
Thats why I said what I said....you dont wanna shoot 150 psi into the engine.

phantom240
03-15-2006, 11:25 PM
Okay, heres my 2 cents on the proposed mod.

The scuba tank has a higher oxygen content than normal atmostphere right?

Well if it does, than it will work along the same lines as NOS, which is used to increase the oxygen in the combustion cycle through the combustion of its cehmical compund. It then, theoretically, SHOULD add more hp, but i will guarantee that unless you set it up to inject in the RIGHT SPOT, your motor wont make full use of it, if at all. My car, for instance, has a mass airflow sensor (MAFS) that sends a signal to the ECU to increase/decrease the fuel mixture in conjunction with the O2 sensor. If i were to inject the oxygen sometime after the MAFS, the fuel mixture would then become too lean and the mixture burn too hot, which is bad for pistons/rings. Not all cars operate like this, some cars have a Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor (MAP sensor) that measures pressure/vacuum in the intake manifold and adjusts fuel accordingly. Of course, you wont be able to run more than (by my estimation) 4-5 pounds of pressure, depending on the CFM (cubic feet of oxygen per minute) youre going to be feeding the motor. You may be able to go to 10 pounds of pressure, but after the vacuum of the motor and the required airflow for the motor to function, you may only raise pressure by one or two pounds.

To put it simply: If done right, it will work fairly well... Provided you can fine tune it on a dyno.

Perdonic
03-16-2006, 01:45 AM
Okay, heres my 2 cents on the proposed mod.

The scuba tank has a higher oxygen content than normal atmostphere right?

Well if it does, than it will work along the same lines as NOS, which is used to increase the oxygen in the combustion cycle through the combustion of its cehmical compund. It then, theoretically, SHOULD add more hp, but i will guarantee that unless you set it up to inject in the RIGHT SPOT, your motor wont make full use of it, if at all. My car, for instance, has a mass airflow sensor (MAFS) that sends a signal to the ECU to increase/decrease the fuel mixture in conjunction with the O2 sensor. If i were to inject the oxygen sometime after the MAFS, the fuel mixture would then become too lean and the mixture burn too hot, which is bad for pistons/rings. Not all cars operate like this, some cars have a Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor (MAP sensor) that measures pressure/vacuum in the intake manifold and adjusts fuel accordingly. Of course, you wont be able to run more than (by my estimation) 4-5 pounds of pressure, depending on the CFM (cubic feet of oxygen per minute) youre going to be feeding the motor. You may be able to go to 10 pounds of pressure, but after the vacuum of the motor and the required airflow for the motor to function, you may only raise pressure by one or two pounds.

To put it simply: If done right, it will work fairly well... Provided you can fine tune it on a dyno.
X2, you would have to have a manual fuel management system, they can get pretty pricy, to adjust for your extra oxygen.

04redmach1
03-16-2006, 02:11 AM
first, what kind of car do you have and plan on blowing up? That will help alot.

Lunchbocks
03-16-2006, 03:37 AM
simple answer, fuel delivery to match.

and yes, modern cars do have air metering of some kind which compensates for incoming air charge But it depends whether or not you place this air injection tube of sorts prior to or after the car's metering device. and personally, i dont really think its worth the trouble

at a quick glance, looks like phantom240 has got it covered in his post as far as the specifics

Luv4Alpine
03-24-2006, 02:08 AM
well first of all, wut fluid is compressed in the tank??? idk anything bout scuba but is it like an o2 mix??? or ...

2nd of all, it is high pressure but its not a very high flow volume is it?

3rd of all, would there be any condensation while decompressing?

i'm no expert or anything just a few ???'s i'd think about if I was attempting it

heyman421
03-24-2006, 02:53 AM
It wont create boost.

Think about it like this:

Air intake:
_____________________
______ _____________
I I
Air hose
What's keeping the air from the airhose from blowing out the other way, toward the air filter, back out THROUGH the MAF? Nothing.

The only way you'd achieve a hp increase is if the compressed air had a SIGNIFCANTLY higher oxygen content than atmospheric air, and oxygen without a binding nitrogen molecule is highly oxidizing to steel, which is the reason they don't use straight oxygen to boost cars performance.

It's not worth your time.

THUNDERBIRD
03-24-2006, 09:14 AM
i was just thinking , if i take my scuba tank ( 80cf 3000psi) and sent a hose with a shut of valve into my intake or throttle body and had it set up so that with a pull of a lever for like a ball valve on the inside of my car, it would give a shot of air at a fairly decent psi into the engine creating boost. Would this work? If not why? i under stand this would not work the same as a turbo.
where and the hell did u come up with this idea??? dont do

RandyJ
03-24-2006, 10:54 AM
hmmm..not sure if im correct or not, but i wouldnt do it. Could put to much pressure on the block and other components. Gotta remember that most turbo's/supercharger's give no more than 16 lbs of boost ( SC bout 8 and turbo's bout 16 and even then thats alot). Just my take, if u wanna take the change let us know how its goes..

The PSI is the PSI of the air coming out of the cold side. Combustion chamber pressure does not go up 16PSI if you are boosting 16PSI.

phantom240
03-25-2006, 02:32 AM
simple answer, fuel delivery to match.

and yes, modern cars do have air metering of some kind which compensates for incoming air charge But it depends whether or not you place this air injection tube of sorts prior to or after the car's metering device. and personally, i dont really think its worth the trouble

at a quick glance, looks like phantom240 has got it covered in his post as far as the specifics
Thank you:D



It wont create boost.

Think about it like this:

Air intake:
_____________________
______ _____________
I I
Air hose
What's keeping the air from the airhose from blowing out the other way, toward the air filter, back out THROUGH the MAF? Nothing.

The only way you'd achieve a hp increase is if the compressed air had a SIGNIFCANTLY higher oxygen content than atmospheric air, and oxygen without a binding nitrogen molecule is highly oxidizing to steel, which is the reason they don't use straight oxygen to boost cars performance.

It's not worth your time.
Um... yeah that would be kinda a problem. You wouldnt get much BOOST, but you WOULD be able to equalize the atmospheric pressure and intake manifold pressure... the vaccuum created in WOT is actually quite high, so by supplementing air intake, you would make more power because youre getting rid of the vaccuum which starves your car for air...

Oh and i wouldnt have to worry bout oxidizing steel, my head and intake are aluminum:D

kingjd7
03-25-2006, 03:09 AM
Do it , But when you do, will you video tape the dyno run?

thehardknoxlife
03-25-2006, 03:28 AM
Don't do this.

04redmach1
03-25-2006, 03:58 AM
It will prob work until it blows, same thing as hooking leaf blower up to shove air into intake, it will work, but ur car will hurt.

heyman421
03-25-2006, 08:38 PM
The vacuum in a car's intake is created intentionally by the design of the intake manifold, many components in a car's braking and emissions systems rely on vacuum to work properly.

And secondly, unless you're rocking a corvette or an a8, your block and pistons are still steel.

Go ahead and do it, tho, it seems wildly apparent that you plan on it regardless of what people say. Just don't expect any noticeable gains, if any.

RandyJ
03-25-2006, 09:47 PM
It will prob work until it blows, same thing as hooking leaf blower up to shove air into intake, it will work, but ur car will hurt.


Please, read what others have posted and then edit this post.

04redmach1
03-26-2006, 03:12 AM
and that matters why?

broke1
03-31-2006, 09:55 PM
Okay, heres my 2 cents on the proposed mod.

The scuba tank has a higher oxygen content than normal atmostphere right?

Well if it does, than it will work along the same lines as NOS, which is used to increase the oxygen in the combustion cycle through the combustion of its cehmical compund. It then, theoretically, SHOULD add more hp, but i will guarantee that unless you set it up to inject in the RIGHT SPOT, your motor wont make full use of it, if at all. My car, for instance, has a mass airflow sensor (MAFS) that sends a signal to the ECU to increase/decrease the fuel mixture in conjunction with the O2 sensor. If i were to inject the oxygen sometime after the MAFS, the fuel mixture would then become too lean and the mixture burn too hot, which is bad for pistons/rings. Not all cars operate like this, some cars have a Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor (MAP sensor) that measures pressure/vacuum in the intake manifold and adjusts fuel accordingly. Of course, you wont be able to run more than (by my estimation) 4-5 pounds of pressure, depending on the CFM (cubic feet of oxygen per minute) youre going to be feeding the motor. You may be able to go to 10 pounds of pressure, but after the vacuum of the motor and the required airflow for the motor to function, you may only raise pressure by one or two pounds.

To put it simply: If done right, it will work fairly well... Provided you can fine tune it on a dyno.

Nope,21% o2 just like the air you breath on land.And thats more or less as altitude plays a factor.At deeper depths in the water,the pressure actually incresease the o2 % but we wont get into that....Im a scuba instructor is how I know.

And itd be NOTHING like nitrous.Nitrous bottles operate at about 900 psi...WHen its out and your just spraying air into it,you do feel a small kick but it aint much.

Problems I see are 1)ASSuming that the reg you have is a scuba reg,it will drop the pressure to 14.7 psi or 1 bar 2) if you ran it without reg,im sure a solenoid thatd handle 3000 psi would be expensive 3)3000 psi will spit the nozzle youre injecting with right out of the intake tract id think

phantom240
03-31-2006, 10:59 PM
well ive been corrected.. and seeing as ive never been diving once, its no big loss. Anyways, it may give you an extra couple ponies, but it wont be worth the time or hassle.



Do it anyways, cuz i wanna see it happen

heyman421
04-02-2006, 04:32 AM
You could deck your head to like 15:1 compression, and then fill the tank with propane to use as a knock inhibitor if you really wanted a crazy project :) I think propane's like 110 octane.

kuijo
04-02-2006, 04:45 AM
Won't create enough PSI. Unless you hook it up and put the tank in the back of the car and shoot cool air into the TB on a really hot day, maybe youd see a little performance. but it seems like a waste of time. Just fill the tank up with nitrous.