PDA

View Full Version : Full range home sound in a car?



PollyCranopolis
03-13-2006, 01:43 AM
How do I get that rich, full range sound you get from a good home theater setup? A good expensive reciever and a high quality speaker stack? It seems with car audio, your always trying to find that high-priced component set to provide decent midrange, while being able to keep up with heavy bass you can jam into any trunk with a powerful amp. I guess thats just the nature of the beast, dealing with the sound staging and deadening between many diffrent makes and models of cars. I have a 92 civic lx sedan. I've dumped alot of money and time into powerful equipment, and been disapointed time after time in my quest to obtain a consistant LOUD sounding full range car sound. Subs always seem to overpower the bass, and though I'm not a rich, the highest quality CDT I've been able to afford have just not been able to provide the midrange nesesary to fill the void between super highs and earthquake bass. Any suggestions on how to obtain this type of sound with a more low key approach? I'm guessing higher quality components without the 3 15's in the trunk? Better sound deadening, and smarter deck settings? Speaker placement. I have boxes for comp sets on the rear deck and the standard front placement options (tweets below the door glass and 6/5's in the bottom stock door holes). Looking for experienced audiophiles with constructive suggestions. Thanx!

Jaredl
03-13-2006, 02:04 AM
You'll want to change basically everything from that setup. First, you probably won't want rear fill for an SQ setup. You'll also want components that keep up with your subs.

If your subs are in the trunk, you will need to cross them below 60-70hz to prevent localization and keep bass up front. A sub like the Ascendant Audio Arsenal should give you great sound at an affordable price, I wouldn't buy more than two for an SQ setup.

You will then want to choose components, or a DIY active setup (which I would suggest as it gives you a lot of control over the sound). If you choose to run a 3-way front stage active, you'll need an external active processor, or an extremely expensive head unit/processor such as a Pioneer P9 Combo or Clarion DRZ9255. For a two-way frontstage, you could get an HU like an Eclipse 8053, 8443, 8454, or 8455, a Pioneer 860MP or 960MP, or an Alpine 7998, 9815, 9835, or 9815, all solid choices and around $200-$350.

I would suggest a 2-way to start, since a 3-way is much more complicated and expensive. You will want a midrange speaker capable of playing down to 60hz or so, which will probably be 7" or 8". If you want to use cheaper speakers, Dayton Reference (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-374) would be a good choice. If you choose to spend more, Seas Excel or Scanspeak Revelator are some of the best drivers around. If you run a 2-way setup, the Dayton Reference will work well with the Dayton Reference large-format tweeter, the RS28A (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=275-130). The Dayton Reference 7" and RS28 should work well together, and only cost around $160 for the set.

For active, you will need a channel of amplification for each speaker. I would send 100+ watts to the midrange, but you don't need much power for tweeters. Don't send 3,000 watts to the subs if you want balanced sound. I would probably send no more than 1,000 watts for 2 woofers, maybe 600 for one. Overall, that setup should give you great sound without costing too much. Sorry for the long post.

ntense702
03-13-2006, 02:07 AM
well it's going to be pretty hard to overpower 3 15's, assuming you have stupid loud bass coming from them, I'd suggest searching around the speaker section and buy the nicest high end/loud components you can afford. maybe you should go the SQ route and down grade to one sq sub or something, IDK. also, lose the rear fill, it is unneccessary.

ntense702
03-13-2006, 02:10 AM
You'll want to change basically everything from that setup. First, you probably won't want rear fill for an SQ setup. You'll also want components that keep up with your subs.

If your subs are in the trunk, you will need to cross them below 60-70hz to prevent localization and keep bass up front. A sub like the Ascendant Audio Arsenal should give you great sound at an affordable price, I wouldn't buy more than two for an SQ setup.

You will then want to choose components, or a DIY active setup (which I would suggest as it gives you a lot of control over the sound). If you choose to run a 3-way front stage active, you'll need an external active processor, or an extremely expensive head unit/processor such as a Pioneer P9 Combo or Clarion DRZ9255. For a two-way frontstage, you could get an HU like an Eclipse 8053, 8443, 8454, or 8455, a Pioneer 860MP or 960MP, or an Alpine 7998, 9815, 9835, or 9815, all solid choices and around $200-$350.

I would suggest a 2-way to start, since a 3-way is much more complicated and expensive. You will want a midrange speaker capable of playing down to 60hz or so, which will probably be 7" or 8". If you want to use cheaper speakers, Dayton Reference (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-374) would be a good choice. If you choose to spend more, Seas Excel or Scanspeak Revelator are some of the best drivers around. If you run a 2-way setup, the Dayton Reference will work well with the Dayton Reference large-format tweeter, the RS28A (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=275-130). The Dayton Reference 7" and RS28 should work well together, and only cost around $160 for the set.

For active, you will need a channel of amplification for each speaker. I would send 100+ watts to the midrange, but you don't need much power for tweeters. Don't send 3,000 watts to the subs if you want balanced sound. I would probably send no more than 1,000 watts for 2 woofers, maybe 600 for one. Overall, that setup should give you great sound without costing too much. Sorry for the long post.
well put dude, that is one hell of a first post :cool:

spudracer326
03-13-2006, 02:14 AM
word...that is one hell-uva first post...you on elitecaraudio.com???

PollyCranopolis
03-13-2006, 02:18 AM
My last setup consisted of 2 PG Titanium 15's off a RF 1001bd, Front stage - Cdt CL-61 6.5's, rear- Audiobahn Abc600T, (not the best sounding speaker) off a RF851x 4 channel. Deck- Alpine 9805, with a Alpine ERE-G180 EQ for slight adjustments. Just recently burnt out the Sub amp. My plan now is to take one 15 out, make a nice custom box for 1 tuned 15, and work on deadening the doors for a front stage with a little better quality compnent set packed in. I'll probably do away with the rear stage. The last post suggested some Daytons? Are these to be used as midrange drivers? If so, how would I set them up? Use crossovers from a component set, or power them right off a amp? The local stereo shop suggested memphis brand amps as an option to provide rich full sound for high pass, although I'm sure the RF851x would be more than capable of providing good sound if other factors including deadening, imaging and crossover settings are taken into consideration.

PollyCranopolis
03-13-2006, 02:29 AM
By the way, I do appreciate the fast and detailed post. Okay, If I wanted to try to get these larger midrange woofers and tweeters together in a car, what would I be looking for as far as a crossover? I'm Assuming the easiest way would be to run the tweeters and the mids off seperate channels on my RF851X 4 channel, setting the crossovers appropriatley, and maybe getting a solid 500.1 amp for the one sub?

Jaredl
03-13-2006, 02:57 AM
Well, I suggested an active crossover with those. The decks I listed all have active crossovers, which are preferable as you can tweak the settings for your car. Madisound.com will build you a passive crossover if you want, but it would probably cost as much as upgrading your HU to one with an active crossover. For the active crossover, you will need 4 amp channels to run your frontstage.

And yeah, I'm also a member of ECA.

alphakenny1
03-13-2006, 03:34 AM
yea i have home speakers in my car. madisound is your friend :). Yea Jaredl is mostly correct and i would like to suggest getting an HU with a 3 way crossover to do all this. I think he threw in the HU's that were capable of doing that. i have a decent explanation between active and passive here: http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146726.

i like diy because first its cheap. second if tuned correctly can kill many high end components out there. third its cheap. lol.

squeak9798
03-13-2006, 09:53 AM
The Memphis brand suggested by your shop is a very good choice if you want to go the pre-packaged component set route. And really, there is nothing wrong with choosing that route over DIY, as there are some very good component sets out there at affordable prices. DIY isn't necessarily always "better", just more flexible.

There are good DIY drivers out there, and there are good component sets out there. You just need to decide which route you want to take. DIY active (and active in general, since you could go active with the drivers from a pre-packaged comp set) will be harder to setup since you will be the one selecting the crossover points and slopes, etc. And that's not something for everyone, as some people don't have the knowledge and/or experience to properly tune an active setup.

Also...if you are looking for high full range output....look into HLCD (horn loaded compression drivers...or "horns" for short). There is simply no other speaker on the market that can keep up with horns volume wise, and set up properly can sound phenominal. Mate the horn up with a good midbass, and you'll be in sonic bliss.

Just another option :)

PollyCranopolis
03-13-2006, 06:22 PM
Whats DIY?

Savstyle
03-13-2006, 06:34 PM
The Memphis brand suggested by your shop is a very good choice if you want to go the pre-packaged component set route. And really, there is nothing wrong with choosing that route over DIY, as there are some very good component sets out there at affordable prices. DIY isn't necessarily always "better", just more flexible.

There are good DIY drivers out there, and there are good component sets out there. You just need to decide which route you want to take. DIY active (and active in general, since you could go active with the drivers from a pre-packaged comp set) will be harder to setup since you will be the one selecting the crossover points and slopes, etc. And that's not something for everyone, as some people don't have the knowledge and/or experience to properly tune an active setup.

Also...if you are looking for high full range output....look into HLCD (horn loaded compression drivers...or "horns" for short). There is simply no other speaker on the market that can keep up with horns volume wise, and set up properly can sound phenominal. Mate the horn up with a good midbass, and you'll be in sonic bliss.

Just another option :)
:word:

There often pretty pricey but if you serch the forums you can find some for a **** good deal, there a guyd selling some min horns for 210 shipped. A bit more complicated but well worth it.

DIY= do it yourself

squeak9798
03-13-2006, 06:39 PM
Whats DIY?

Do It Yourself.

Picking out the drivers yourself from sources like madisound, partsexpress, zalytron, etc and either running them active or building a custom passive.

///M5
03-13-2006, 08:22 PM
To get that rich, full range sound you get from a good home theater setup you just need to spend either more money or time on your install. Not that you were going to but just slapping some $10k speakers in your car is not going to make it sound good. Integrating a good comp set or DIY set will. MA are one of many good options.

JL12W7INAGS300
03-13-2006, 10:23 PM
the mark levinson sound system in the new lexus's sound amazing

helotaxi
03-13-2006, 11:04 PM
Another sometimes overlooked part of this is have more power on the front stage than you think you need. Most home systems have a bunch of power available (100+ watts per channel is pretty much the minimum). Keeping your mid/high freq amps in a comfortable operating range will help with the quality of their output and allow plenty of headroom for dynamic music.

The install will factor very heavily into the quality of the sound. Average speakers, excellently installed will almost always sound better than excellent speakers just thrown in the doors. You should pay a lot of attention to the mounting surface of the midbass and the airspace that it is working in. If you want to run the MB infinite baffle, make sure that the door is sealed off. If you want to build an enclosure for the MB in/on the door, make sure the baffle is solidly built and that the enclosure is well sealed and stiff. Deaden the doors. Deaden the firewall. Deaden the floorpan. Deaden the roof. Deaden the doors some more.

PollyCranopolis
03-14-2006, 01:39 AM
I've unhooked the rear audiobahn comps. I have a single set of Cdt CL-61 6.5's up front, and have my 2 15's running in a series out of the back. It blows my mind that without the sub amp, and without the rear fill, the system has a new sound of clarity. Though the bass is not quite as "loud" and the highs are not quite as "muddy", I'm begining to question why I spent money on the RF 1001BD in the first place. My RF 851x, running two 15's in series, and powering one set of front stage CDT's sounds much better SQ wise, and is just about as loud than my previous setup with the Audiobahn rear fills and the 1001BD running the 2 15's...amazing. Whats more of a surprise is that the gain for the 2 15's is set at just above zero, with the comp channel set at around 25% max. Deck setting get a bump on bass and treble to +1. I think I'm finally getting it..