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View Full Version : how do i setup 3 way active setup using the HU?



jaygeorge1979
03-06-2006, 04:22 PM
i have read a few posts here and there about using a head unit that has a built in 3 way crossover to make a custom built active component system...

i cant seem to figure out how exactly this is done? since the tweeters need to be crossed over independly of the midwoofers, and independently of the subs, how is this accomplished? the only way i can think of is if the HU has three sets of outputs: Front, rear, and subs...this way, the tweeters will be the only drivers on the front channel, the midwoofers will be the only drivers on the rear channel, etc...

this would only work if the head unit allows different crossover settings for different sets of outputs...i havent ever had a HU that was that good, so im just trying to figure out how it all works....

EDIT: just realized i am still in the speaker section, not the general discussion...my mistake guys

ngsm13
03-06-2006, 04:31 PM
In essence, you are correct.

Most HU's don't come stock out of the box configured to do this, as most people are happy with the front/rear/sub.

On my alpine 9835, you must look on the bottm of the unit and flip a tiny switch from f/r/sub to 3-way, it's a small switch that you'll need a tiny flat-head screwdriver to move.

Then, it will function like you thought. The fronts will be the outputs for the tweeters, rears the output for the mids, and sub is obviously the output for the subwoofer. Then, since you have switched the unit to 3-way mode (some call this PRO mode)... you can set crossover points and slopes on the unit itself.

w00t.

nG

joetama
03-06-2006, 04:34 PM
The same is true for my 9855, little switch on the bottom, which is going to **** to take out and switch..... But once you do that you have the "three" way system, or more of a "two" way with supplimented low end. At least that's the way I look at it.

jaygeorge1979
03-06-2006, 04:36 PM
thanks guys...exactly what i needed to know...

been racking my brain all morning trying to figure out if i was looking at it the right way :)

just to make sure i am getting it perfectly, the unit itself will allow you to adjust the crossover freq AND slope for JUST the front outs, and then do the exact same for the rear outs?

ngsm13
03-06-2006, 04:39 PM
thanks guys...exactly what i needed to know...

been racking my brain all morning trying to figure out if i was looking at it the right way :)

just to make sure i am getting it perfectly, the unit itself will allow you to adjust the crossover freq AND slope for JUST the front outs, and then do the exact same for the rear outs?

Indeed.

I recommend an Alpine or Eclipse ;)...

nG

jaygeorge1979
03-06-2006, 05:03 PM
muchos gracias :)

JCivicHb
03-06-2006, 05:50 PM
so then would you need 3 amps- sub- mid- tweet? or how does that work? and there isnt a way to disable the crossovers on the amps, so would you just turn them all the way up or what?? sorry im trying to learn how to do this as well it sounds interesting...

joetama
03-06-2006, 06:04 PM
You would need an amp channel for the L-High R-High, L-Mid, R-Mid, and then Sub....

JCivicHb
03-06-2006, 06:18 PM
ok so a 4 channel amp makes sense, but what about the signal processing on the amp

joetama
03-06-2006, 06:26 PM
Depends on the amp really, most have switches that will disable the cross-over and some you just have to range it away from where you will be operating at....

ngsm13
03-06-2006, 07:14 PM
Indeed. Some you can set to full-range on the amp (b/c the HU will be doing the xover duty)...if not...set it out of the range... b/c the HU will take care of it anyways.

nG

JCivicHb
03-06-2006, 07:49 PM
what would be a good decently priced active crossover to consider? what about the audiocontrol 6xs??

ngsm13
03-06-2006, 08:16 PM
what would be a good decently priced active crossover to consider? what about the audiocontrol 6xs??

Get a HU with one, a lot easier ;)

nG

billybrown66
03-07-2006, 03:57 AM
Most HU's don't come stock out of the box configured to do this, as most people are happy with the front/rear/sub.

On my alpine 9835, you must look on the bottm of the unit and flip a tiny switch from f/r/sub to 3-way, it's a small switch that you'll need a tiny flat-head screwdriver to move.

Then, it will function like you thought. The fronts will be the outputs for the tweeters, rears the output for the mids, and sub is obviously the output for the subwoofer.


nG


going to hijack the thread, but wouldn't a tweeters/mids and sub not be a 3-way setup, but a 2-way w/ a sub. i was under the impression that a 3-way is tweeter/midrange/midbass, not tweeter/midrange/subwoofer. i'm looking to go
2-way active w/ a sub but i've haven't heard about too many people running this type of setup before for some reason.

alphakenny1
03-07-2006, 04:11 AM
^^ Wrong. well, you are right and wrong. you can say its a 2 way setup with sub but technically tweets, mids and sub is a 3 way setup. sub (low), mids (mid), tweets (high). 3 ways right? i'm running the setup that you want to run. what you are talking about as well is 3 way frontstage which is tweets, midrange and midbass.

squeak9798
03-07-2006, 10:51 AM
Yes, it's confusing....a 3-way setup is a 2-way frontstage plus a sub. A 3-way frontstage plus a sub would actually be a 4-way setup.

So, the differences are all in whether we are talking about the entire setup, or only the fronstage.


And yes...probably the majority of the people who are running active (and heck, probably most of the people into car audio) are running a 3-way setup (2-way frontstage with a sub)...so it isn't rare at all, and probably the most common setup.

squeak9798
03-07-2006, 10:55 AM
what would be a good decently priced active crossover to consider? what about the audiocontrol 6xs??

Stay way from Audiocontrol pieces that use the resistor packs. Not user friendly at all. Good for someone experienced, not good for a novice.

As ngsm pointed out...easiest thing to do is buy a HU with an active xover built in. Beyond that, you can find Coustic xovers on ebay for good prices. Like the XM6, DX-28 or XM-7 (last two are decently rare...but snatch them up if you can find them).

billybrown66
03-07-2006, 10:55 AM
thanks, i was under the wrong impression i guess. it's nice to know that i can use the 3-way modes on cd decks now.

joetama
03-07-2006, 02:48 PM
But once you do that you have the "three" way system, or more of a "two" way with supplimented low end. At least that's the way I look at it. I think I already covered that lol....

joetama
03-07-2006, 03:14 PM
I love how I get negged by idiots who think they are billy bad ***, and I know who you are it's pretty easy to figure out when more than a few points go away, for pointing out that I already said it once. Read the thread it's what I do....

theCybe
03-07-2006, 04:03 PM
Indeed. Some you can set to full-range on the amp (b/c the HU will be doing the xover duty)...if not...set it out of the range... b/c the HU will take care of it anyways.

nG

Also note that you can use both to steepen the slope, or fine tune the sound if you have more than one peak.

ngsm13
03-07-2006, 04:04 PM
Also note that you can use both to steepen the slope, or fine tune the sound if you have more than one peak.

I don't trust on-board xovers on most amps. At all.

lol.

nG

theCybe
03-07-2006, 04:04 PM
Stay way from Audiocontrol pieces that use the resistor packs. Not user friendly at all. Good for someone experienced, not good for a novice.

As ngsm pointed out...easiest thing to do is buy a HU with an active xover built in. Beyond that, you can find Coustic xovers on ebay for good prices. Like the XM6, DX-28 or XM-7 (last two are decently rare...but snatch them up if you can find them).

The XM7 is surprisingly functional, and does all manner of adjustments.

boost/trim/lpf/hpf/Q, it's a beautiful thing.

ngsm13
03-07-2006, 04:06 PM
I hated my Xm6, it was a piece of garbage. Jason's that he also bought NEW was screwed up too. So I say... eff em.

The XM7 on the other hand I've heard good things about. Still ike it built into my HU tho...

nG

theCybe
03-07-2006, 04:09 PM
I hated my Xm6, it was a piece of garbage. nG

What was wrong? Was it crunchy?

squeak9798
03-07-2006, 04:47 PM
I hated my Xm6, it was a piece of garbage. Jason's that he also bought NEW was screwed up too. So I say... eff em.



Yeah, UCP has said something to the same effect before.

But honestly, I've only heard of very few problems with them.

But the XM-7 and DX-28 are in a completely different league than the XM6 anyways...

jaygeorge1979
03-08-2006, 12:38 PM
heeeey i was browsing crutchfield.com looking for HU's that mentioned a 3 way active crossover or whatever, and i couldnt find any?

i looked at the alpines, pioneers, and eclipses, and browsing thru the features i didnt see anything about havin the option to switch between front/rear/subs outs and 3 way output?

what should i be looking for if im in the market for a HU that allows a 3 way active setup? can someone show me an example?

thanks

theCybe
03-08-2006, 12:42 PM
You need a headunit with three pre-outs, and crossover points in each driver's respected ranges;

HPF for tweets
LPF, HPF for mids
LPF, HPF for midbass
LPF for subwoofer

or a combination thereof.

squeak9798
03-08-2006, 12:47 PM
heeeey i was browsing crutchfield.com looking for HU's that mentioned a 3 way active crossover or whatever, and i couldnt find any?

i looked at the alpines, pioneers, and eclipses, and browsing thru the features i didnt see anything about havin the option to switch between front/rear/subs outs and 3 way output?

what should i be looking for if im in the market for a HU that allows a 3 way active setup? can someone show me an example?

thanks

Pioneer DEH-P860MP, Eclipse 8443, 8053, 8455, CD7000, Alpine 9815, 9855, 9835

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-77k51WNqrZP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=300&I=099CD7000&search=Eclipse+VENDORID099&SearchDisplay=Eclipse

http://www.cbrstereo.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=567

ngsm13
03-08-2006, 01:03 PM
Pioneer DEH-P860MP, Eclipse 8443, 8053, 8455, CD7000, Alpine 9815, 9855, 9835

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-77k51WNqrZP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=300&I=099CD7000&search=Eclipse+VENDORID099&SearchDisplay=Eclipse

http://www.cbrstereo.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=567

I concur. Especially with the ones I bolded.

;)

nG

faulkton
03-08-2006, 01:11 PM
what about 8454?

jaygeorge1979
03-08-2006, 04:55 PM
thanks for the examples guys!

although i would also like to know specifically what to look for within the product description to figure out if it is capable of being used in a 3 way active system...

for example, i know it needs 3 pairs of preouts...and on that eclipse unit you linked, i see it says 5 settings for adjustable low and high pass crossovers, so that makes sense....5 settings seems kinda small tho, i was hoping for maybe a little more options?

i guess i am looking on the wrong website....i was only able to find the eclipse on crutchfield.com...those pioneer and alpines werent there....are those older models that you suggested?

alphakenny1
03-08-2006, 05:09 PM
k off teh top of my head, these are the HUs (older and newer) that have 3 way crossovers built in. alpine 7998, 9813,9815,9835,9853,9855. eclipse 8053,8443,8454,8455,CD7000. Pioneer 860mp. Clarion DRZ9255.

also what do mean by 5 settings? a built in 3 way crossover has a Low Pass filter, bandpass filter and high pass filter.

ploie
03-08-2006, 05:10 PM
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-oPy7cVGsFJg/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=300&I=500CDA9853
this one work too

squeak9798
03-08-2006, 05:12 PM
thanks for the examples guys!

although i would also like to know specifically what to look for within the product description to figure out if it is capable of being used in a 3 way active system...

for example, i know it needs 3 pairs of preouts...and on that eclipse unit you linked, i see it says 5 settings for adjustable low and high pass crossovers, so that makes sense....5 settings seems kinda small tho, i was hoping for maybe a little more options?

i guess i am looking on the wrong website....i was only able to find the eclipse on crutchfield.com...those pioneer and alpines werent there....are those older models that you suggested?

Crutchfield doesn't carry the Premier line, which is why that Pioneer wasn't on there. And those Alpine models were last years models. But I doubt Crutchfield got rid of them all that quickly...so not sure why they don't carry them off hand.


Anyways, you want to find a headunit that allows for highpass/bandpass/lowpass of the preamp outputs. How this is labeled depends on the manufacturer. Eclipse and Pioneer call this "Pro Mode".

jaygeorge1979
03-08-2006, 05:28 PM
thanks guys...pro mode...i like that :)

anybody kno what alpine calls it?

alphakenny1
03-08-2006, 05:29 PM
also have you read this? http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146726 ;).

ngsm13
03-08-2006, 05:50 PM
k off teh top of my head, these are the HUs (older and newer) that have 3 way crossovers built in. alpine 7998, 9813,9815,9835,9853,9855. eclipse 8053,8443,8454,8455,CD7000. Pioneer 860mp. Clarion DRZ9255.

also what do mean by 5 settings? a built in 3 way crossover has a Low Pass filter, bandpass filter and high pass filter.

Also, the Alpine 9833. The Pioneer 960 does as well.

nG

jaygeorge1979
03-08-2006, 07:51 PM
also have you read this? http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146726 ;).

read it yesterday

ploie
03-09-2006, 12:10 AM
anybody kno what alpine calls it?
Bass Engine Pro

ngsm13
03-09-2006, 12:17 AM
Bass Engine Pro

No.

nG

jaygeorge1979
03-09-2006, 01:22 AM
its not bass engine pro? i saw that in the description on one of the alpine models that i thought yall had said was acceptable for what we talked about...

hmmm

ngsm13
03-09-2006, 02:23 AM
its not bass engine pro? i saw that in the description on one of the alpine models that i thought yall had said was acceptable for what we talked about...

hmmm

No, that's not their "special term" for a 3-way active HU...

nG

JakiChan
03-09-2006, 02:46 AM
So if you have a HU like the 9855 and switch to an active setup then you lose the time correction, yes?

Mr. Opportunist
03-09-2006, 02:47 AM
i believe my 860mp still has time alignment when in pro mode could be wrong tho...

ngsm13
03-09-2006, 02:48 AM
So if you have a HU like the 9855 and switch to an active setup then you lose the time correction, yes?

No sir. You have separate time alignment for each individual channel ;)...

nG

squeak9798
03-09-2006, 10:25 AM
So if you have a HU like the 9855 and switch to an active setup then you lose the time correction, yes?

The only time you'll have independent channel time alignment is when you're active.

alphakenny1
03-09-2006, 02:44 PM
The only time you'll have independent channel time alignment is when you're active.

i'm not quite sure if thats true. i'm pretty sure on my HU if i go passive i still can control each individual speaker as long as i'm in pro mode and that my passive setup is bi-amped.

TheBigDu
03-12-2006, 12:54 AM
i'm not quite sure if thats true. i'm pretty sure on my HU if i go passive i still can control each individual speaker as long as i'm in pro mode and that my passive setup is bi-amped.
Depends how you interpret what he said. My 9835 in passive has individual TA on each of the 4 channels, BUT if he meant individual to each component (each tweet and mid), then you can only do that with active, obviously.

alphakenny1
03-12-2006, 02:30 AM
Depends how you interpret what he said. My 9835 in passive has individual TA on each of the 4 channels, BUT if he meant individual to each component (each tweet and mid), then you can only do that with active, obviously.

i guess i interpreted it with your first suggestion.

adam71
03-20-2006, 03:43 PM
Still ike it built into my HU tho...

Other than the onboard EQ which isn't defeatable in most head units and time alignment I NEVER use any onboard processing from a head unit. I have a 3 way front stage and a pair of subs or as some call it...a 4 way system. 2 way active crossover with passive 3 way for the front stage and 1/3 octave EQ. I'm just the kind of person who likes all "seperates" when it comes to car audio. That way if you want to upgrade your EQ, crossover or headunit you don't have to change your whole system layout.

I do agree that a headunit with everything in it is a better value and is easier to set up. But it will never match the flexibility and over all quality of seperates.

DONGUABINO
03-29-2006, 12:47 PM
Ok, I have an Alpine CDA-9813, I want to try the 3 way active setup. Have componets speakers, front and rear and a JL Audio 300/4, the sub is a JL Audio 10' powered with a 250/1. My question: Do I have to change the settings on the Amp 300/4? Thanks, good information here, my email is [email protected]

ngsm13
03-29-2006, 02:44 PM
Ok, I have an Alpine CDA-9813, I want to try the 3 way active setup. Have componets speakers, front and rear and a JL Audio 300/4, the sub is a JL Audio 10' powered with a 250/1. My question: Do I have to change the settings on the Amp 300/4? Thanks, good information here, my email is [email protected]

If you want to go active, you will have to ditch the component set in the rear. Unhook it from the amp.

Now, you will need to pull out your HU... and flip a little switch on the bottom to "3-way" mode. Then, you will need to run your "front" RCA's to the front 2 channels of your 300/4, this will power your front set of tweeters only. Next, run your "rear" RCA's to Channels 3/4 on the 300/4, this will power the front set of mid ONLY. You will need to select proper XOVER slopes and frequencies from your HU. This will feed the proper signal to the amp, and the amp will then power your speakers within the corret bandwidths.

That's like a quick *** overview of what to do...

nG

DONGUABINO
03-30-2006, 02:51 PM
OK, it sounds a lot better 3 way, like it a lot, "You are the man".

Now, I have my wife's SUV, and want to do some work on it, to keep me busy over the weekend, I like this hobby.

I have two JL Audio 6W0 subwoofers (4 ohm), set of JL Audio Tweeters and two MB Quart RCE-Woofers 5.25. Can these JL Audio subs be used as mids?.

Where can I get a 3 way electronic crossover? And wich one you recomend?

She has an Alpine CDA-9856 so she can play with the Ipod and has also a JL Audio 300/4 amp. Only powering a set of components up front MB Quart RCE-216.

So the rear channel I want to use it for a weekend project. If it makes sense :crazy:

I trust your judment and I am willing to compensate you, and please I dont want to offend you, I am a firearms consultant and I do charge for things like this.
Thanks

ngsm13
03-30-2006, 03:33 PM
OK, it sounds a lot better 3 way, like it a lot, "You are the man".

Now, I have my wife's SUV, and want to do some work on it, to keep me busy over the weekend, I like this hobby.

I have two JL Audio 6W0 subwoofers (4 ohm), set of JL Audio Tweeters and two MB Quart RCE-Woofers 5.25. Can these JL Audio subs be used as mids?.

Where can I get a 3 way electronic crossover? And wich one you recomend?

She has an Alpine CDA-9856 so she can play with the Ipod and has also a JL Audio 300/4 amp. Only powering a set of components up front MB Quart RCE-216.

So the rear channel I want to use it for a weekend project. If it makes sense :crazy:

I trust your judment and I am willing to compensate you, and please I dont want to offend you, I am a firearms consultant and I do charge for things like this.
Thanks

Look into something like this Audiocontrol...

http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=1259

As for the 6W0's, I'd use them MAINLY as "subwoofers" but they should be able to extend into the midbass area pretty well without a problem. With the Audiocontrol piece, you can take them up to 200-300hz, then have your mids (MB Quarts) take over from there. Then naturally your tweeters for the high end.

Essentially, this AudioControl piece will go in-line with your RCA's. So it'll go HU -> AudioControl DXS -> Amplifier.

There are a few other choices, but this digital AudioControl piece is GREAT. If it's too much money, you could try to find a Coustic XM6... but it has a ****-ton of knobs to adjust... and it A LOT harder to configure to an exact frequency. It also only offer 18dB/oct slopes :(...

So, if it were me... I would use the AudioControl piece. Easier to use, able to dial in on exact frequencies, stricter slopes (up to 24dB/oct), and just a great unit.

Let me know if you need anything else.

nG

DONGUABINO
03-30-2006, 05:01 PM
Thanks, will let you know as I get the audio control. Cruchfield sells "Foam Speaker Baffles" is there something better that I can used? Let me know if you need anything on this end.

ngsm13
03-30-2006, 08:49 PM
Thanks, will let you know as I get the audio control. Cruchfield sells "Foam Speaker Baffles" is there something better that I can used? Let me know if you need anything on this end.

Take a look here:
http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95925

Even if you don't do the deadening right now (the actual mat sound deadener)... It's a good idea to take care of the speaker mounting with the MDF spacer and clay. Those foam baffles Crutchfield sells are good, they keep water from getting on the speaker... just make sure they are deep enough to accomodate the speaker... or else they're useless.

:).

nG