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View Full Version : Way over my head: Premier deh-860mp



digital mint
01-27-2006, 09:47 PM
Well just installed my new deck. I had an alpine 9827 before. I have so many Questions but i will start with the basic: (i'm in STD mode btw and didn't set my gains yet)

1) Subwoofer output level? +6 to -24? What do i set it at? (no gain set yet)

2) If i use the crossovers of the HU, Do i have to do anything with the setting on my 2 amps? before i didn't have the ability to use the HU crossovers so i just Set the HP/LP directly on my amps, but what about those settings now(amps)?

I need your help lol, thanks

alphakenny1
01-27-2006, 09:55 PM
1) Subwoofer output level? +6 to -24? What do i set it at? (no gain set yet)

you can set the gains by ear. just set the sub at max setting (for the time being) and then play a song that is pretty dynamic and turn up the gain until the speaker distorts and turn the gain down a notch. also turn the HU to about 3/4 of the volume. then from there you can adjust sub setting through your HU to your liking. this way you can get the most of the amp. yes this can cause little clipping but minimal clipping in general is ok. but if you want to be safe, use the tutorial we have here.




2) If i use the crossovers of the HU, Do i have to do anything with the setting on my 2 amps? before i didn't have the ability to use the HU crossovers so i just Set the HP/LP directly on my amps, but what about those settings now(amps)?



just use the crossovers on the HU and then set the crossovers on the amp to "full" or "all pass."

digital mint
01-27-2006, 09:59 PM
you can set the gains by ear. just set the sub at max setting (for the time being) and then play a song that is pretty dynamic and turn up the gain until the speaker distorts and turn the gain down a notch. also turn the HU to about 3/4 of the volume. then from there you can adjust sub setting through your HU to your liking. this way you can get the most of the amp. yes this can cause little clipping but minimal clipping in general is ok. but if you want to be safe, use the tutorial we have here.




just use the crossovers on the HU and then set the crossovers on the on "full" or "all pass."
Thanks i apreciate man! When you say "full or "all pass", are we talking on the amps or HU?

alphakenny1
01-27-2006, 10:01 PM
^ on the amps.

you have complete control now through your HU. gotta love it!

digital mint
01-27-2006, 10:02 PM
Nice! thanks a lot. Now i'm out to adjust my gains, Cheers:woot:

pwnt by pat
01-27-2006, 10:07 PM
The crossovers on the HU are limited to certain frequencies. If you want the best sound, use the amp crossovers or get an external.

Also, set all your levels to 0 and then set your gains. If anything is too overpowering, subtract numbers, don't add. Like if your sub is really overpowering, drop it to -2 or more...

alphakenny1
01-27-2006, 10:13 PM
^ i disagree. remember the 860 has a 3way active crossover. you can play your mids up to 10khz and have it stop playing there. you can't do that with an amp crossover. the frequency range for an amp crossover doens't go past 4-5khz. most amps are just two way crossovers. most amps are also limited in the slopes as well. not many amps offer slopes past 12db/oct. i'm not quite sure on the pioneer but my eclipse has at the most 24db/oct. amp crossover is very limited in flexibility unless of course you have a high end amp that offers an 3 way active crossover and slopes up to 24db/oct.

also digital do you know what is the steepest slope the pioneer offers?

digital mint
01-27-2006, 10:18 PM
^ on the amps.

you have complete control now through your HU. gotta love it!
do you know if there is such a switch on an orion 2500d? all i can see is master/copy

digital mint
01-27-2006, 10:18 PM
^ i disagree. remember the 860 has a 3way active crossover. you can play your mids up to 10khz and have it stop playing there. you can't do that with an amp crossover. the frequency range for an amp crossover doens't go past 4-5khz. most amps are just two way crossovers. most amps are also limited in the slopes as well. not many amps offer slopes past 12db/oct. i'm not quite sure on the pioneer but my eclipse has at the most 24db/oct. amp crossover is very limited in flexibility unless of course you have a high end amp that offers an 3 way active crossover and slopes up to 24db/oct.

also digital do you know what is the steepest slope the pioneer offers?
i'll get back to you on that.

pwnt by pat
01-27-2006, 10:21 PM
Pioneer's steepest is 18 and I think it's sub only. Most are 6-12. Also, I haven't had an amp that didn't let me do what I needed it to, crossover wise.

While the 3-way crossiver is a nice feature, it's predefined crossover locations can make it more of a hassle than a blessing during lots of tuning.

alphakenny1
01-27-2006, 10:22 PM
do you know if there is such a switch on an orion 2500d? all i can see is master/copy

dont know much about orions but does it have the crossover settings on there? if it does, then it should say LP/All pass,FULL/HP. if you do set to all or full. i mean its your choice really, you can use the xovers on the amp but i prefer to set everything through my HU.

master/slave is for strapping i believe or something like that.

alphakenny1
01-27-2006, 10:30 PM
Pioneer's steepest is 18 and I think it's sub only. Most are 6-12. Also, I haven't had an amp that didn't let me do what I needed it to, crossover wise.

yea i dunno myself but i would think that would dumb if pioneer only offered a max of 18db/oct on the sub alone and not offer it on the bandpass and hp.

also how are you bandpassing your mids? through your amp? it must have a 3 way xover then. as i stated earlier, not many amps offer a 3way active xover. the only ones i could think of on top my head are zapco and helix.



While the 3-way crossiver is a nice feature, it's predefined crossover locations can make it more of a hassle than a blessing during lots of tuning.

what do you mean predefined crossover locations? meaning crossover points? 3way active crossovers don't have a prefined "locations." i could have my sub play 10khz if i wanted to and vice versa with my tweets i could send them 100hz if choose.

by all means im not attacking you and don't take this personally.

iceteebone
01-27-2006, 10:56 PM
set your sub level to 0 and set your gains using the tutorial. pioneer decks will clip when you have the sub level too high. he also said he was running this in standard mode so why are we discussing the 3-way xover? i'm too lazy to read every post word for word :crap:

alphakenny1
01-27-2006, 11:19 PM
set your sub level to 0 and set your gains using the tutorial. pioneer decks will clip when you have the sub level too high. he also said he was running this in standard mode so why are we discussing the 3-way xover? i'm too lazy to read every post word for word :crap:

reason why i mentioned 3way xover because pwnt by pat suggested that he use the crossovers on the amp because it is more flexible. i then disagree with him and point out the pros of using the xover on the HU and i threw in the 3way xover in there to support my claim :D .

pwnt by pat
01-27-2006, 11:30 PM
All I mean is what if you wanted to cross your sub at 50hz instead of 63? Your midbass highend at 2400 instead of some other crossover point that you can select. I'm not arguing the fact that it's easy or convenient, just that it doesn't offer as fine a detail as I would like to see.

alphakenny1
01-27-2006, 11:38 PM
All I mean is what if you wanted to cross your sub at 50hz instead of 63? Your midbass highend at 2400 instead of some other crossover point that you can select. I'm not arguing the fact that it's easy or convenient, just that it doesn't offer as fine a detail as I would like to see.

okay i understand your point about the sub levels but most subs play fine at 63hz, at least in my cases. i have sub crossed at 80hz @ 12db and it plays perfect. of course its all depends on the application and what not.

but besides that subs, i still say the HU is better.

digital mint
01-28-2006, 02:33 AM
Wow is all i can say! This deck has quite a lot of settings lol I figured out how to use the crossovers on the deck. Sure is a big learning curve for me! Now i'm learning about slopes etc...It would probably help if i knew more about slopes and what they do exactly.

After messing around i got completly lost in trying to find a good balanced sound. I sorta learned quite a bit tonight tho. i'll give it another crack tomorrow. Thanks for your help so far guys.

alphakenny1
01-28-2006, 02:37 AM
excellent site here to learn about those slopes, http://www.bcae1.com/xovrslop.htm. the higher the number the steeper the slope. if you don't know bcae1.com is an awesome site.

just looking at your sig, do you got a frontstage yet? if not you can fully utilize the features on that HU by going active :D .

digital mint
01-28-2006, 10:42 AM
^^ thanks for the link.

msimon
01-28-2006, 11:59 PM
Just FYI, the 860 actually has up to 24 db/oct slopes on the mid bandpass and high hpf, and up to 36 db/oct on the low lpf.

I agree with Alphakenny, the majority of amps do not offer a 3-way x-over, have very imprecise knobs for setting the x-over, do not have steep slopes and cannot be tuned from the drivers seat.