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theCybe
01-20-2006, 11:58 PM
Is this what I'm after? Are there any external solutions?

I'm shopping for a deadhead, or at least one without the excess. It doesn't even need to have an amplifier.

So, likely what I find won't have time-alignment.

* Where should I turn for t/a?
* Should I ditch the deadhead idea and buy the typical alpine/eclipse?
* Stage-info for intermediates

:)

Prowler573
01-21-2006, 01:35 AM
Is this what I'm after? Are there any external solutions?

I'm shopping for a deadhead, or at least one without the excess. It doesn't even need to have an amplifier.A deadhead and a unit with no internal amp are the same thing. Preamp output only.


So, likely what I find won't have time-alignment. ???


* Where should I turn for t/a?
* Should I ditch the deadhead idea and buy the typical alpine/eclipse?
* Stage-info for intermediatesThere are several decks with t/a built in. Kenwood, Alpine, Eclipse, (I think) Pioneer, etc all make decks with t/a as part of the onboard processing. Most, if not all, of those units, once you get to this level of features, would have defeatable internal amps. The one in my current head unit has never once powered on - before I ever turned to unit on I killed the onboard power. Not a 'deadhead', per se, but just as good.

LoudCrownVic
01-21-2006, 01:41 AM
Selling an Eclipse upper level HU with t/a, nib, for 410 shipped. Eclipse CD8454.

theCybe
01-21-2006, 01:49 AM
A deadhead and a unit with no internal amp are the same thing. Preamp output only.


Right. I know. :)


There are several decks with t/a built in. Kenwood, Alpine, Eclipse, (I think) Pioneer, etc all make decks with t/a as part of the onboard processing. Most, if not all, of those units, once you get to this level of features, would have defeatable internal amps. The one in my current head unit has never once powered on - before I ever turned to unit on I killed the onboard power. Not a 'deadhead', per se, but just as good.

Right again; Purpose of the thread is to find out what sort of options I have as far as an external T/A processor / digital delay.

I guess I'm looking to shave a few bucks off the TCO. I don't need a $450 headunit that can give me blowjobs while I drive; I just need one that has a good tuner, plays cdrs, has two preouts with a moderate voltage, and excellent crossover slopes.

Oh yeah, and blingy chrome and flashing lights. ;)
not.

theCybe
01-21-2006, 01:49 AM
so likely what i find won't have time-alignment.

Know of any deadheads with T/A?

FoxPro5
01-21-2006, 01:54 AM
Know of any deadheads with T/A?

The Eclipse 8053 has T/A in -db and in .1ms on the three outs: high, mid, and low. It is as dead as they come:)

theCybe
01-21-2006, 02:10 AM
Thank you :) +props.

ngsm13
01-21-2006, 02:38 AM
I owned an 8053 for about 8months. I liked it, for ultimate SQ...or use with amps that accept balanced outs it's great. But I hands down like my Alpine 9835 a hell of a lot better, the sound itself...and the features...ease of use and such. It has the option of turning the internal amplifier off...hence becoming a dead-head.

NG

Eldorado
01-21-2006, 03:02 AM
Pioneer DEH-P9400mp,940mp,8600,860MP,9600,960MP, P1 and P9 all have time alignment. Plus the new 2006 models, dont know the model #'s yet.
As far as I know, only the P1 and P9 are dead heads. They are also very pricy.
deadheads tend to be more espensive for some reason.

JAZN
01-21-2006, 03:08 AM
The older alpine deadheads were nice SQ pieces. The cda-7998 comes to mind as a prime choice for a deadhead with TA.

Eldorado
01-21-2006, 03:13 AM
Its actually called "digital time correction" if its an alpine :rolleyes:

ngsm13
01-21-2006, 03:15 AM
Well if it comes with ****/*** I'm game...

NG

Eldorado
01-21-2006, 03:18 AM
Arent we all, arent we all :naughty:

theCybe
01-21-2006, 03:22 AM
Eclipse CD8455 - poor interface, ugly / flashy
Eclipse CD8445 - poor interface, ugly / flashy

Eldorado
01-21-2006, 03:24 AM
Thats my beef with them. Ugly as sin.

JAZN
01-21-2006, 03:30 AM
Its actually called "digital time correction" if its an alpine :rolleyes:
And they don't do the same thing?

Eldorado
01-21-2006, 03:31 AM
Ya, but Alpine has to be different like that.
200th post !

theCybe
01-21-2006, 03:34 AM
headunits have too much bullshit.

i want a black detachable face, with red digits.
i want it to have 6 buttons.

left, right, up, down, menu, select, attenuate. what the f*ck. :)

*edit: eject, maybe too. ;)

2kchevy06civic
01-21-2006, 03:37 AM
^_^

8053 ftw, I love it's T/A feature.

theCybe
01-21-2006, 03:40 AM
Are there EXTERNAL units that'll do time-alignment?

Chevyaudio
01-21-2006, 03:42 AM
The older alpine deadheads were nice SQ pieces. The cda-7998 comes to mind as a prime choice for a deadhead with TA.

First HU I thought of when I read the original post, You cant beat the HU. Also many of the new alpines have the option to turn the Internal Amp off so they infact to become dead heads.

Eldorado
01-21-2006, 05:03 AM
Are there EXTERNAL units that'll do time-alignment?
I havent seen anything. Prob not

Eldorado
01-21-2006, 05:05 AM
headunits have too much bullshit.

i want a black detachable face, with red digits.
i want it to have 6 buttons.

left, right, up, down, menu, select, attenuate. what the f*ck. :)

*edit: eject, maybe too. ;) get a pioneer 860. It has volume, 6 buttons on the bottom ( no marked) and a 8 way button on the right, used for changing the station and menu junk. Its black but it has orange/blue display

squeak9798
01-21-2006, 08:58 AM
Are there EXTERNAL units that'll do time-alignment?

Yes, but they are going to be expensive because they will be full out digital processors and not *just* time alignment units.

Alpine H701, for example.

I'm sure Altomobile has some units that do time alignment aswell.

theCybe
01-21-2006, 12:03 PM
Results for Pioneer 860;

Pioneer THF-860 Packing Case TS1645U - $15.21 - PartStore
Pioneer ARP-860 S/M SX-V400 (BK) - $38.73 - PartStore
Pioneer ANM-860 Front Panel SX-V300BK - $117.04 - PartStore
Pioneer RXB-860 Reel Base CT50
Pioneer AAD-860 Button (Subsonic)
Pioneer CHC-860 Styrol Protector GM5
Pioneer DEH-P860MP :) there we go.

Somebody told me the difference between the MP designation and the extra zero naming convention; Anyone recall?

theCybe
01-21-2006, 12:21 PM
http://i10.ebayimg.com/02/i/05/f9/f2/64_1.JPG
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CLARION-DXZ935-MOTORIZED-FACE-CD-CD-R-PLAYER-SIRIUS-DSP_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ38641QQitemZ8030347 014QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

theCybe
01-21-2006, 12:25 PM
wow
http://www.clarion.com/us/en/MungoBlobs/376/98/DRZ9255.jpg
Audiophile Features
Die Cast Zinc Faceplate
Heavy Machined Volume Knob
Vacuum Fluorescent Display (VFD) with Independent Power Supply
Copper-Plated Chassis
3-Layer Nickel Finish CD Mechanism
Glass Epoxy 4-Layer PC Board
Burr-Brown Volume Circuit with 0.5 dB Resolution
Zero Cross Detection Muting
24-Bit Burr-Brown D/A Converter
96 kHz Sampling Frequency Upconversion
4 DAC Differential Configuration
8x FIR Oversampling Digital Filter
Analog Devices High-Speed Operational Amps
48 kHz Frequency Response
96 kHz AKM Digital Signal Processor (DSP)
Digital Time Alignment with 0.7cm Steps
0-500cm Adjustment for Each Channel
4-Way Digital Crossover
Variable Crossover Frequency, Slope, & Phase
Fully Parametric 5-Band Equalizer
8-Channel 4-Volt Preamp Outputs
Silver-Plated Conductors
6N Oxygen Free Copper (OFC)
Gold-Plated, Metal Barrel RCA Connectors
Outboard DC/DC Converter Power Supply
Black Finish Copper Chassis
Die Cast Aluminum Casing
Custom Silmic II Filter Capacitors
Toroidal Choke Coils
Gold-Plated Power Terminals
CD-R & CD-RW Playback
Magi-Tune AM/FM Tuner with 24 Station Presets
CeNET Control for CD Changer, TV Tuner, or Sirius Satellite Tuner (satellite tuner requires Clarion DSC920S)
Dual Rear Analog Auxiliary Inputs
Optical (S/PDIF) Digital Input & Output
Preamp Only (requires outboard amplifiers)
Included Wireless Remote Control
Step-Up Features From the Clarion DXZ945MP (and pretty much any other head unit)
Outboard DC/DC Converter
Copper-Plated Chassis
Burr-Brown D/A Converters
Glass Epoxy 4-Layer PC Board
0.7cm Step Digital Time Alignment
5-Band Parametric Equalizer
0.5 dB Burr-Brown Volume Circuit
Optical Digital Input & Output

saywhat?
01-21-2006, 12:29 PM
**** thats a nice unit, where can i read about it/how much does it cost?

Alpineinstaller
01-21-2006, 12:37 PM
omg!!! me wanty, though i wouldn't' really know what to do with it, maybe just stare at it....

theCybe
01-21-2006, 12:37 PM
it's perfect.

that's the one.

thousand bucks. :(
it's the only clarion with tiemalignment for 2006, i'm browsing 2005 and 4 now.

ngsm13
01-21-2006, 12:37 PM
The DRZ9255 is ****!

NG

theCybe
01-21-2006, 12:41 PM
Cast zinc faceplate? f*cking spooge.

theCybe
01-21-2006, 12:53 PM
Panasonic says:

SRS CS Automotive

This 3D sound reproduction technology is based on HRTF (Head Related Transfer Function) theory. It compensates the signal based on the way humans determine sound directionality according to frequency changes. this lets you experience a natural sound filed anywhere in the car, unlike artificial sound-field manipulation by methods such as time delay. TruBass and Focus functions are also provided to bring back the rich bass and sparkling treble tones that tend to be lost in compressed music formats like MP3 and WMA.


.. ? Artificial? Is this like an Epicenter functionality?

squeak9798
01-21-2006, 12:53 PM
Somebody told me the difference between the MP designation and the extra zero naming convention; Anyone recall?

DEH-P8600MP is the "regular" Pioneer.

DEH-P860MP is the Pioneer Premier version.


The regular 8600MP doesn't have Pro Mode...which is what all of the fancy processing is part of.

Lil Poot
01-21-2006, 01:12 PM
that 2nd clarion is ****ing sweet. is it flat out 1000 dollars, or is that dealer or msrp or something? anyone know if the face is removable? thats my only reason for going with my kenwood instead of an eclipse. thing i dont like about my excelon, is with the DTA (they call it that too) theres only front, back or sw, no adjusting individual speakers. and its measured in distance, so the deck supposedly will set itself up. i dont know, i played with it a bit, set it where i thought it sounded best and left it, but i know my soundstage only sounds right in the middle of the car.

squeak9798
01-21-2006, 01:16 PM
The Clarion DRZ-9255 isn't anything new....it's been out for over a year now. Dealer MSRP is around $1300, goes on egay for around $900 shipped.

Eldorado
01-21-2006, 01:19 PM
CJ/puppychow has that clarion.
I see you helotaxi !

Prowler573
01-21-2006, 01:25 PM
Panasonic says:

SRS CS Automotive

This 3D sound reproduction technology is based on HRTF (Head Related Transfer Function) theory. It compensates the signal based on the way humans determine sound directionality according to frequency changes. this lets you experience a natural sound filed anywhere in the car, unlike artificial sound-field manipulation by methods such as time delay. TruBass and Focus functions are also provided to bring back the rich bass and sparkling treble tones that tend to be lost in compressed music formats like MP3 and WMA.


.. ? Artificial? Is this like an Epicenter functionality?

Yes - it is artificial processing and to my ears, doesn't sound great (the higher-end Kenwood eXcelons have had SRS and SRS WOW processing for a couple of years now)

Eldorado
01-21-2006, 01:30 PM
that 2nd clarion is ****ing sweet. is it flat out 1000 dollars, or is that dealer or msrp or something? anyone know if the face is removable? thats my only reason for going with my kenwood instead of an eclipse. thing i dont like about my excelon, is with the DTA (they call it that too) theres only front, back or sw, no adjusting individual speakers. and its measured in distance, so the deck supposedly will set itself up. i dont know, i played with it a bit, set it where i thought it sounded best and left it, but i know my soundstage only sounds right in the middle of the car.
With the pioneer you can choose front, front left, front right, rear or all.
Then if you choose front left or front right you go into " T/A 2" where you adjust each speaker distance. Left, right,subwoofer and the rear channels.
If you switch it to pro mode (active crossovers) you can only adjust the front 2 speakers and subwoofer since the rear speakers typically arent used when doing an active setup

helotaxi
01-21-2006, 01:31 PM
yeah, i'm about, what of it? ;)

Do you want to save money, or do you want a H/U with time correction and no internal amp? You aren't going to get both. I would suggest not getting hung up on the amp thing and just not use it if you don't need it. I use an Alpine 9813 and just don't use the amp. Time correction is pretty simple to use on it and it was priced reasonably (don't remember what I paid for it exactly but a lot of research went into the purchase about 2 years ago).

Eldorado
01-21-2006, 01:34 PM
Uhmm, ite been a long long time since youve posted, thats what.
Hopefully you stick around for a little bit.
<--- formerly supa_c

theCybe
01-21-2006, 01:37 PM
I spy a 7995 for $170; Get it?

Lil Poot
01-21-2006, 01:37 PM
yeah i've been looking at that 860mp premier, it looks like its got everything i want, good eq, burr brown, plays mp3's, detachable face. going for 330 shipped off ebay, same as i paid for my kenwood, is that a good deal or should i hold out?

Eldorado
01-21-2006, 01:39 PM
Thecybe, isnt that the one with the massive faceplate ?
It just slides inside when you arent using it.
1meangta, you might want to hold out untill the new 2006 h/u's come out.
They will probably be around that price

theCybe
01-21-2006, 01:42 PM
yeah, i'm about, what of it? ;)

Do you want to save money, or do you want a H/U with time correction and no internal amp? You aren't going to get both. I would suggest not getting hung up on the amp thing and just not use it if you don't need it. I use an Alpine 9813 and just don't use the amp. Time correction is pretty simple to use on it and it was priced reasonably (don't remember what I paid for it exactly but a lot of research went into the purchase about 2 years ago).

Thanks; Good advice.

I just want to explore time-alignment; to be honest, if I found a headunit that would do that, but had forsaken some extras, i'd go that route.

just want a no bs unit. no motorized bullshit, no dancing dolphins.

Here's a question; For those of you using the units with delay, how much delay are you using in ms? Is it negligible?

JimJ
01-21-2006, 01:46 PM
I spy a 7995 for $170; Get it?

n00bx, grab that deck :)

helotaxi
01-21-2006, 01:49 PM
Uhmm, ite been a long long time since youve posted, thats what.
Hopefully you stick around for a little bit.
<--- formerly supa_c
Long story, and it involves a new assignment, a move to Vegas and not having internet access for the last 6 months. I'll be around for at least the next week or two. I'll be in Iraq for the next couple months after that and I'm not sure if I'll have internet access there or not.

slick316
01-21-2006, 01:50 PM
I have the Clarion DRZ 9255, fantastic unit, had it since July 2004 and its working great since. It is a VERY simple headunit. ONE LINE display that shows very basic stuff. The menus take a bit to get used to, but the unit does everything and sounds great. The face DOES NOT detach, but most people that I have shown this HU to have all said the same thing "This thing retails for $1400? It looks so simple", I don't think it will really attract a thief.
As far as money goes, if you are trying to save a little cash but still want a great headunit, I think the Eclipse CD8053 is about the nicest out there for the money. Great sounding unit, tons of features, just can't say anything bad about this unit.
I can't speak for the Pioneer and Alpine's since I have never used them, but there isn't a single HU out there that I would trade my 9255 for (even the F#1 Status from Alpine).

theCybe
01-21-2006, 01:50 PM
Sorry, but the item is no longer available because the auction has ended.

...... [wuuu, sahh.] I had a bid entered and waiting, and my phone rang.

ngsm13
01-21-2006, 01:57 PM
Newer alpine units have iPersonalize, it's a pretty **** online interface you can use to adjust the Xover, EQ, Time Correction, greetings and such. It's sweet b/c you can adjust in CM, Inches, etc. Also, it's easy to use. After you're done...d/l the file...burn it do a CD...and d/l it to the HU.

NG

squeak9798
01-21-2006, 04:28 PM
Here's a question; For those of you using the units with delay, how much delay are you using in ms? Is it negligible?

Negligible as in....not a big difference in sound? If that's what you are asking...TA can make a biiigggg difference. I'm using 2ms delay on the left side IIRC via my 8053, and you can tell a very clear and distinct difference between when I'm using it and when I'm not. With the TA the images really focus up and stay steady, the sound itself becomes less diffused and better focused. Really quite a big jump in sound.


TA can help, but it can also hurt. The more TA you apply, the more it'll begin to narrow your soundstage.

Also, TA will only improve imaging from one seat, and worsen it in the other. So, while the driver's side may sound much improved, the passenger's side is quickly going deeper into the shitter.

theCybe
01-21-2006, 05:59 PM
^ thank you for the reply;

I'm not concerned with what the passenger hears. I should've bid on the 7995. :)

7998s are around for just up on $200.

Given the choice, would you grab a 799x or a 98xx?

I'll end up with an Alpine deck; I wanted to resist, but I don't have a grand for the Clarion, and the Pioneers, Kenwoods, Eclipses all just look like crap IMO.

Shyne151
01-21-2006, 06:09 PM
I'll be selling my 7995 in a month or so... real cheap like 65-75 cheap.

theCybe
01-21-2006, 06:52 PM
> PMs.

FE3T
01-25-2006, 09:15 AM
Given the choice, would you grab a 799x or a 98xx?


799x no doubt

Just replaced my old 7939 with an demo used 7969
But i dont use the onboard TA
(have dual PRA-H400`s for that purpose, they do also the x overing for an active 3 way frontsystem,rearfill and sub)