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View Full Version : horrible midbass! help!!!



thisisausername
01-15-2006, 02:57 PM
I just install my seas ca18's into the stock location in the door. The highs are crisp thanks to my new tweeters and my mids are loud and clear. The problem is, my bass is nearly non existant, def. worse than stock! My ca18's are being fed 55 watts each and they have much flatter response curves than the stock speakers! I must have messed something up with the install.

the only thing bad I noticed is that the stock speakers were sealed to the door, and my new ones are raised up on spacers for clearance issues. They are far from sealed(1.5 cm air gap all the way around). Is this whats killing my midbass? What else can I do to improve midbass?

I was thinking I could go buy weather stripping and adhere it to the back of the spacer, so when I bolted it down to the door skin it would seal. Does the seal have to be rigid or would this rubbery seal be sufficient? Another thought was caulk but it sounds like it would be a nightmare...

GSteg
01-15-2006, 03:34 PM
use either weather strippers or non-hardening clay. (preferrably clay for better sealing).

The leak is definitely killing your midbass. I had that problem too until I sound deadened my doors and sealed the leaks.

Blunt
01-15-2006, 03:39 PM
use non hardening modeling clay. put some between spacer and door and speaker and spacer will greatly improve the midbass

thisisausername
01-15-2006, 03:42 PM
the only non hardening clay i know of is that oil based kids stuff. wouldn't that melt in the summer, IMO?

GSteg
01-15-2006, 04:00 PM
Find the nearest art supply store. They will have it.

thisisausername
01-16-2006, 12:21 AM
i was just listening to my system again before I blew my 6th, and last, crossover fuse(the ones i'm using are 1 amp too small lol). The midbass isn't just bad, its completely non existant. even with the eq on my hu all the way up for the lower freqs the bass sux. I hope sealing them makes a huge diff...if not :crying: . I should be able to try it and report back tomorrow. Is there anything reletively easy I can do in addition to sealing baffle? I gotta take door panel back off neways, might as well try a few things.

i'm glad I went active crossover tho, lot more configurable. I'm a little dissapointed that it doesn't get louder...how do I set gains right? maybe they are too low.
with a 4 channel amp running 55 watts per channel at 8 ohms shouldn't it be like deafeningly loud? the amp is rated 220x4@2ohms RMS

also, what should I cross my CA18's in at(high and low pass)? Right now its at like 60 low pass and 3k high pass. the tweets come in at 3k+. I don't have a sub...yet.

sorry for so many questions...I don't like to thread spam, I would rather pack 349287 annoying questions into one post. :)

djman37
01-16-2006, 12:27 AM
here's a 21 page discussion on seas midbass not sure which they end up talking about most.
http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showthread.php?threadid=117405&pagenumber=1

i haven't LOOKED yet, but I thought those were mid's, not so much midbass drivers.

slain93gsr
01-16-2006, 12:30 AM
deadening and sealing the door around where the spacer and speaker sits helps out greatly...

thisisausername
01-16-2006, 12:44 AM
i haven't LOOKED yet, but I thought those were mid's, not so much midbass drivers.
yeah they are mids I was referring to midbass as in the frequencies between bass and midrange, not the actual driver.(whoops maybe I shoulda been clearer)

GSteg
01-16-2006, 12:46 AM
The one in that link is the RW165 where as thisisausername has the CA18. Both are completely different drivers. The RW165 has midbass output, it just takes some work to get output. Same with any drivers actually. When you have a mid that is not completely sealed, you're going to lack output. Same with subwoofer. Put the subwoofer behind a baffle where it leaks all around and you're going to have little to no output.

thisisausername
01-16-2006, 12:59 AM
Same with subwoofer. Put the subwoofer behind a baffle where it leaks all around and you're going to have little to no output.
haha, thats what I tried to explain to my dad. he's pissed that i'm taking the door panel off again and he's convinced that sealing the baffle will do nothing and is a waste of my time. He truly believes that the lack of bass is because I have my crossover set wrong, and that I should just up the bass on the equalizer and call it a day. He also thinks that you guys don't know what you're talking about :).

I plan to prove him wrong on all these things. He has a bad habit of not listening to my suggestions...

alphakenny1
01-16-2006, 01:03 AM
you get the RNXs? I just ordered the RLYs.

and yea just like everyone said deaden your door and seal it up and it should improve the output.

but thats very odd that you got "non existant" bass. there should be some at least because when i just threw in my mids with no deadening and sealing on the stock baffle (plastic POS) and i got some bass. but after deadening and sealing it improved tremendously. good luck.

GSteg
01-16-2006, 01:38 AM
I just ordered the RLYs.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/GSteg/orly.gif


Sorry couldn't help it
:rotflol:

alphakenny1
01-16-2006, 01:56 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/GSteg/orly.gif


Sorry couldn't help it
:rotflol:

hahaha you :crazy: . lol nice find.

thisisausername
01-16-2006, 02:15 PM
I took the stock baffle off and made my own...at least the stock one was sealed. Mine has a huge air gap all the way around. The stock baffle was for ghey bose and had some ghetto amplifier built into it. it was too small neways.

is there a cheap alternative to dynamat/other ripoff sound deadening? I've heard some things about using roofing tar shingles or something?

and whats the best way to seal the door? there's no way i can use MDF with my funky door shapes.

GSteg
01-16-2006, 02:24 PM
is there a cheap alternative to dynamat/other ripoff sound deadening? I've heard some things about using roofing tar shingles or something?

There raammat, fatmat, second skin, etc. if all you need is just the door deadened, then get the second skin with 36sq ft or something. Otherwise raammat is 62.5 and fatmat is 100sq ft. I had raammat and used 5 layers per front door, and I still have a lot left. You'll probably only use 15sq ft each door at most if you do single layer.



and whats the best way to seal the door? there's no way i can use MDF with my funky door shapes.

To seal the holes in the door, get 1/4th MDF or so and cover as much as you can then. Then use your sound deadener and apply it all around the leaky part. Midbass response increased a lot in my car. My midrange aren't known for having a lot of midbass output, but once I got everything done, they almost sound like dedicated midbass drivers :D

Curel
01-16-2006, 02:38 PM
You never mentioned what the crossover is set at. Either way sound deadning is a must, especially with those midbass monsters.

johnson
01-16-2006, 02:42 PM
Instead of 1/4" MDF (ive never seen .25 MDF) you can use plexiglass.

thisisausername
01-16-2006, 02:42 PM
You never mentioned what the crossover is set at.
60hz low and 3k high

I don't really wanna pay for sound deadening(no money left)...has anyone used one of these materials I found on the net?
Polymeric Mastic
lawl ripoff sheets
Carpet padding
tar paper
"Peel and Seal" Look for it in the roofing section.

alphakenny1
01-16-2006, 03:29 PM
is there a cheap alternative to dynamat/other ripoff sound deadening? I've heard some things about using roofing tar shingles or something?

raammat is excellent. probably the best bang for the buck. others are hushmat, fatmat, umm thats all i could think of.




and whats the best way to seal the door? there's no way i can use MDF with my funky door shapes.

http://forums.caraudio.com/vb/showthread.php?t=95925.

slain93gsr
01-16-2006, 03:58 PM
Raammat works well.. not pricey and most importantly doesnt stink like tar

johnson
01-16-2006, 04:08 PM
60hz low and 3k high

I don't really wanna pay for sound deadening(no money left)...has anyone used one of these materials I found on the net?
Polymeric Mastic
lawl ripoff sheets
Carpet padding
tar paper
"Peel and Seal" Look for it in the roofing section.

Cement works well.

You could sell your speakers to get deadening.

slain93gsr
01-16-2006, 04:29 PM
lol i dont think he is gonna want to sell his speakers.

peel and seal has okish - mediocre results. it isnt as thick so you have to double up.

El Ropo
01-16-2006, 08:28 PM
the only thing bad I noticed is that the stock speakers were sealed to the door, and my new ones are raised up on spacers for clearance issues. They are far from sealed(1.5 cm air gap all the way around). Is this whats killing my midbass?

You will never get decent midbass response until you seal that 1.5 cm gap around the midbasses. Hehe, that reminds me of the dorks who have 6 x 9 speakers just sitting on top of their back decks without an enclosure, and wonder why they sound so bad.

Right now, your backwave is cancelling out the front wave. It will continue to do so until you plug up the gap.

Deadening your doors with good comps is a must also, start saving money for it if you are serious about wanting the best possible sound out of your setup.

thisisausername
01-21-2006, 12:33 AM
After sealing the baffles my bass output has doubled at least, perhaps tripled or quadrupled! We did it in one door first to hear the difference and it was huge! now my only fear is my black car melting the clay come summer...

On a side note, the bass output doubled or tripled again when I switched my output from the non-fader plugs to the front speaker plugs. I'm not sure why this is, the original reason for doing it was so my EQ would work, but somehow it has done a lot for the bass even when the EQ is off??? The sound also got louder, now 3/4 way on the volume control is equiv to what used to be all the way up. I'm puzzled, but happy.

now my bass is quite amazing if I must say so myself! Its not like a subwoofer though, its very punchy. When a drum hits it's sorta like you ears are getting a slap in the face, very sharp and sudden. My friends RE XXX 15" is very loud, but softer kinda like a silk tweeter vs an aluminum one. Maybe its cuz a real subwoofer is muffled by the trunk, but whateve.

I'm thinking of getting another set of tweets/mids and putting them in back for some rear fill, could I just run them in parallell with the existing speakers? The speakers I have now are 8 ohms and my amp can handle down to 2. I have an active crossover so I can't think of a reason why I couldn't run 2 speakers per channel.

I'm very happy with the sq as well, the CA18's and seas tweets sound beautiful. If I could do one thing it would be to try out a silk dome tweeter. On some of my poor quality mp3's the treble is harsh and actually painful to your ears when the music is loud.

if you bothered to read down this far please answer my questions about the multiple speakers per channel and why the non-fader output would have less bass/is quieter.

GSteg
01-21-2006, 12:43 AM
After sealing the baffles my bass output has doubled at least, perhaps tripled or quadrupled! We did it in one door first to hear the difference and it was huge! now my only fear is my black car melting the clay come summer...

See we told you so. It makes a big difference. If you get unhardening clay, it wont melt, even in a black car. My car in the summer was very hot, yet it didn't melt.



On a side note, the bass output doubled or tripled again when I switched my output from the non-fader plugs to the front speaker plugs. I'm not sure why this is, the original reason for doing it was so my EQ would work, but somehow it has done a lot for the bass even when the EQ is off??? The sound also got louder, now 3/4 way on the volume control is equiv to what used to be all the way up. I'm puzzled, but happy.

not sure what you mean by fader plugs.

Yes the volume gets loud before you distort because the car is quieter, there are less leaks (cancellation will reduce output to the ears), and because your doors are resonating less, midbass region is improved and midrange should clear up a bit more.



I'm thinking of getting another set of tweets/mids and putting them in back for some rear fill, could I just run them in parallell with the existing speakers? The speakers I have now are 8 ohms and my amp can handle down to 2. I have an active crossover so I can't think of a reason why I couldn't run 2 speakers per channel.

You can run them in parallel. Treat your current component set as if it was a subwoofer. Just as long as the amp can handle the impedence, you're fine.

thisisausername
01-21-2006, 02:42 AM
this is my system:
1 set of rca's coming from my headunit to back of car into a coustic XM6 crossover. From the crossover comes 2 sets of rca's, one high passed the other bandpassed. These go into my hifonics tx8805 amplifier rated at 220x4 @ 2 ohms. The outputs from the amp go to the respective tweeters and midrange drivers.

my headunit(eclipse CD5444) has 4 sets of output jacks. One is labeled "front/high", another "rear/low", a third "fixed", and the one I was using "non-fader". The non fader output was not affected by EQ settings for some reason, so I hooked up my rca cable to the front/high jack instead. Now, for some strange reason, the output is much louder and bass is a lot stronger. Does anyone have an explanation for this?