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Flipx99
12-29-2005, 03:29 PM
I know mdf is the most common material used in box construction. Is there anything stronger or better that is sold at a place like lowe's or home depot? Cost is not a concern...just curious if there were better materials.

JimJ
12-29-2005, 03:32 PM
Sold at Lowe's or HD? Not likely.

HDF is denser than MDF, but it's sold at lumberyards...

Nikuk
12-29-2005, 03:34 PM
If cost is not a concern, then You should not be shopping at Lowes or Home Depot.

Contact a local composites / plastics place and have then fab up a vacu-formed Kevlar enclosure.

Flipx99
12-29-2005, 03:35 PM
I work at Lowe's...I can get a scuff piece cheap or something

JimJ
12-29-2005, 03:37 PM
You won't find anything...if you want something solid, double or triple up 3/4" stock.

Nikuk
12-29-2005, 03:38 PM
Then You should know better then us as to wether or not You can order HDF (high density fiberboard).

Otherwise, no. nothing that they'll carry on the reg. shelves.

if You have a nice enough discount, build with 2 layers of 0.75" mdf, but be prepared for the weight.

My 6.0 cu ft'ish / dual 15" / CRX style / doublewalled / essuvee enclosure from last spring weighed in @ 150ish lbs.... before drivers.

Flipx99
12-29-2005, 03:38 PM
sounds good....@ 1.99 per sheet, not too costly at all

Thanks

Flipx99
12-29-2005, 03:41 PM
Then You should know better then us as to wether or not You can order HDF (high density fiberboard).

Otherwise, no. nothing that they'll carry on the reg. shelves.

if You have a nice enough discount, build with 2 layers of 0.75" mdf, but be prepared for the weight.

My 6.0 cu ft'ish / dual 15" / CRX style / doublewalled / essuvee enclosure from last spring weighed in @ 150ish lbs.... before drivers.

Can't order anything lumberwise unless you buy a pallet.


Furthermore...I didn't know that HDF is superior to MDF. I have an idea it is the density. (duh) but i don't know why this helps.

ramos
12-29-2005, 03:49 PM
Dense is what your looking for. Some of the birch ply's are pretty good. Whether they are better or not ?? :)

kuijo
12-29-2005, 03:52 PM
Fiberglass and that light weight MDF, forgot the name, Would be my top two picks.

Nikuk
12-29-2005, 03:54 PM
Dense is what your looking for. Some of the birch ply's are pretty good. Whether they are better or not ?? :)
true, but i dont think that the lowes (near me) carries it :mad:

Flipx99
12-29-2005, 03:55 PM
7ply cabinet grade birch and oak...we carry it

ramos
12-29-2005, 03:57 PM
Don't know about the oak never used it for anything. Birch ply works well but is expensive.

squeak9798
12-29-2005, 03:58 PM
Fiberglass and that light weight MDF, forgot the name, Would be my top two picks.

Fiberglass is only stronger than MDF when curved. In flat panels, MDF is stronger, cheaper, and easier to use/build with.

ramos
12-29-2005, 04:01 PM
To be truly honest though, be it mdf / plexi / f-glass / exotic expensie plys. If they all are built properly you won't be able to tell the diference. :)

Flipx99
12-29-2005, 04:01 PM
Don't know about the oak never used it for anything. Birch ply works well but is expensive.

I may try it. Hell, throwing away $5.

kuijo
12-29-2005, 04:01 PM
Fiberglass is only stronger than MDF when curved. In flat panels, MDF is stronger, cheaper, and easier to use/build with.

even with tons of layers of matt?

ramos
12-29-2005, 04:04 PM
even with tons of layers of matt?



But why use tons of layers of mat to make a flat panel, that you could of made out of mdf and been done with it in a minute. :)

squeak9798
12-29-2005, 04:04 PM
even with tons of layers of matt?

Then you could equivalently add tons of layers of MDF ;) It'd cheaper, easier and stronger. It would be pretty stupid really to build a regular shaped enclosure out of fiberglass.

Flipx99
12-29-2005, 04:06 PM
Then you could equivalently add tons of layers of MDF ;) It'd cheaper, easier and stronger. It would be pretty stupid really to build a regular shaped enclosure out of fiberglass.


But what about lighter? I am curious which is stronger per pound?

squeak9798
12-29-2005, 04:09 PM
But what about lighter? I am curious which is stronger per pound?

Per pound I don't know.

But to make a rectangular fiberglass enclosure that was as strong as .75" MDF would take a TON of layers and I'm sure would end up being just as heavy if not heavier. Not to mention it would cost about 10x as much, and take forever to build.

JimJ
12-29-2005, 04:11 PM
The box we built for Big Marv > *

Flipx99
12-29-2005, 04:12 PM
Per pound I don't know.

But to make a rectangular fiberglass enclosure that was as strong as .75" MDF would take a TON of layers and I'm sure would end up being just as heavy if not heavier. Not to mention it would cost about 10x as much, and take forever to build.


You have quite an extensive knowledge about just about everything...I hope it serves you well in your career field.

As always...still learning and I appreicate the help

ramos
12-29-2005, 04:13 PM
The box we built for Big Marv > *

1/4 slot port for the win :D :)

ramos
12-29-2005, 04:17 PM
But what about lighter? I am curious which is stronger per pound?


If you built entirely out of fiberglass I would think the thickness and bracing needed would make it heavier than an mdf enclosure. As far as stronger pound for pound ? Way to many variables to be controlled for me to want to test that one. :)

InhumanAcura
12-29-2005, 04:29 PM
id use birch ply on every box if it wasnt so expensive. not constantly breathing the dust from mdf is a plus

Nikuk
12-29-2005, 04:36 PM
bah - fermahldyhide (sp) never killed anybody.

:uhoh:

ramos
12-29-2005, 04:39 PM
bah - fermahldyhide (sp) never killed anybody.

:uhoh:


Don't forget the phenol as well. That adds allot to the fragrance :)

theCybe
12-29-2005, 06:55 PM
Did he just say he gets MDF for $1.99 a sheet?

swc204
12-29-2005, 07:38 PM
Did he just say he gets MDF for $1.99 a sheet?

he works there

InhumanAcura
12-29-2005, 07:47 PM
he works there

I dont think theres a 1000%+ markup on it though...im assuming thats for a "damaged" piece...

if hes getting a perfectly good piece for $1.99 I will be turning in an appilcation at the one closest to me, lol...i could buildout my van for like $40 :eek:

Flipx99
12-29-2005, 11:27 PM
It's not exactly like that. Say I couldn't buy 10 at 1.99. I bought one and maybe in a week or 2 I can get another. Cull lumber is usually 10 cents on the dollar at our store. What happens is someone bought it and then refunded it. They said "it didn't cut right, something is wrong with the wood." Which really means...they fvcked up cutting it. Because it is cut, they sell it as scrap. Who would pay full price for pre-cut lumber. Becuase I run the front end, I knew about it. I called the store manager and asked to buy it. He said yeah...10 cents on the dollar and so I did.

Most of the time when I get it cheap it is roughed up on the edges or have this black mark from the banding. People won't buy it. They lay it on the floor and people continually have to move it. I have a deal with the dept manager that I will buy all the mdf, as long as he lets me know. So I have to buy some unusable sheets sometimes...but most of the time it looks pretty good.

The birch is more rare because @$43 less people touch i. If I wait a week or 2 I can still get it pretty cheap. I don't pay full price for much. I just wait until someone returns items that are perfectly good, but customers say are broken. All my tools are used but they work great. It is one of the perks of working there. The other is walking outside in spring/summer when hot girls walk around in bathing suits.

Flipx99
12-29-2005, 11:29 PM
if hes getting a perfectly good piece for $1.99 I will be turning in an appilcation at the one closest to me, lol...i could buildout my van for like $40 :eek:


If you were patient enough you could get the screws, wood glue, drill, concrete for around $75. But you would never get a weekend off to compete. I get 4 weekends off per year...because I am part time and have another job.

Untouchable11
12-30-2005, 12:58 PM
My Lowe's doesn't even handle MDF :(... I have to drive an hour to get a sheet of MDF :(

swc204
12-30-2005, 01:05 PM
all i can get around here is HDF and its about $20 or so per sheet. dont you guys have any lumber yards where you live? theres 3 within 20 mins of my house.

Omarvelous
12-30-2005, 01:11 PM
OR you could ring up the sheets as another cheaper alternative. That's what my friend does at HD. He gets tons of sht for like nothing. Like 35ft of cat5 cable, 1.30$.

Flipx99
12-30-2005, 01:32 PM
I would rather not steal.

cxixer
01-10-2006, 04:24 AM
From the MECP study guide, particleboard has better resonant qualities than MDF, better for high power applications. Fiberglass... NOT KEVLAR... is more flexible but not as acoustically dead. You can certainly tell a difference between different materials used in construction... http://forum.able-audio.com

ramos
01-10-2006, 01:10 PM
From the MECP study guide, particleboard has better resonant qualities than MDF, better for high power applications. Fiberglass... NOT KEVLAR... is more flexible but not as acoustically dead. You can certainly tell a difference between different materials used in construction... http://forum.able-audio.com


Given proper construction methods for the given material. You can't hear much if any difference. And any unwanted resonations in a glass enclosure are easily deadened. It's all a matter of what suits your specific budget and needs better in the end anyway. :)

cxixer
01-10-2006, 01:49 PM
Ok, I'll agree.. for most people. But also, given the amount of people that actually know use proper construction methods is relatively a low percentage compared to everyone out there constructing enclosures, I'll stick with what I said before. I'm not saying nothing will sound the same, I am saying that each material has different acoustic properties.. and physical properties for that matter, so unless you build every enclosure strong enough, and dead enough... they will sound different.

ramos
01-11-2006, 08:19 AM
And I agree with you, and am also standing by what I said earlier as well. Each material does have different acoustic properties, as well as physical properties. The idea is to figure out how to use these specific characteristics to our benefit. :)