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BodegaBay
12-14-2005, 05:50 PM
Thanks to alphakenny, squeak, max, foxpro and other veterans owners here who have given great info on using active crossover speakers in previous threads.

I just ditched my rearfill and will be exploring the 2-way active frontstage. I currently have an Eclipse 8455, DLS Iridium 6.2, and am demoing between a PG Xenon 200.4 and two MB Quart RAA2400. The DLS is working fine with the supplied passive crossover boxes. However, it's not as tight in the midbass as I want but it maybe that it just needs time to be broken in; maybe it will get better in an active setup as well. I'm not sure but I'm going to dive in to this active tweaking phenomenon...

Out of curiosity, may I ask the ACTIVE owners here what drivers, x-overs, and amplification you guys are using?

TWEETER
- Speaker Driver:
- Crossover HP & Slope:
- Amplifier Brand & Power:

MIDRANGE/MIDBASS
- Speaker Driver:
- Bandpass Crossover HP & Slope:
- Bandpass Crossover LP & Slope:
- Amplifier Brand & Power:

SUBWOOFER
- Speaker Driver:
- Crossover LP & Slope:
- Amplifier Brand & Power:

Thanks for making this fun again.

squeak9798
12-14-2005, 05:56 PM
Tweeter
Speaker Driver: Illusion CH1 horns
Crossover HP & Slope: ~1khz @ 18db/oct (later was running @ 24db/oct when I started using my Eclipse 8053)
Amplifier Power: ~5wpc :naughty:


MIDRANGE/MIDBASS

Speaker Driver: Coustic DR-306P
Bandpass Crossover HP & Slope: 52hz @ 12db/oct (w/ Eclipse 8053 63hz @ 12db/oct)
Bandpass Crossover LP & Slope: ~800hz @ 18db/oct
Amplifier Power: 75wpc w/ Coustic 505DR, later >100wpc w/ Coustic 510DR

BodegaBay
12-14-2005, 06:00 PM
Thanks Squeak. I thought the flagship Eclipse H/Us had a bandpass option but I guess not (I remembered the Clarion DRZ had it when had it last year). I take it that you used the 8053 for the HP and the amp (or external x-over) for the LP when cofiguring your bandpass?

Speedyd718
12-14-2005, 06:14 PM
check the sig for my setup. but i can't help ya with x-over pts just yet. since it's not installed. and the eclipse decks can bandpass.

squeak9798
12-14-2005, 06:16 PM
Thanks Squeak. I thought the flagship Eclipse H/Us had a bandpass option but I guess not (I remembered the Clarion DRZ had it when had it last year). I take it that you used the 8053 for the HP and the amp (or external x-over) for the LP when cofiguring your bandpass?


The 8053 does have bandpass.....I just didn't change the lowpass frequency or slope when using the 8053, so I didn't bother to list it in that lowpass section since nothing changed :)

Those amps actually don't have xovers in them :D

req
12-14-2005, 06:16 PM
Tweeter
Speaker Driver: Image Dynamics CD2 HLCD fullbody
Crossover HP & Slope: ~1.2khz @ 24db/oct
Amplifier Brand & Power: Oldschool Memphis 6 channel ~38wpc @ 8ohms (more like 10wpc musically) :naughty:


MIDRANGE/MIDBASS

Speaker Driver: Image Dynamics Chameleon 6.5 CX62
Bandpass Crossover HP & Slope: ~65hz @ 24db/oct
Bandpass Crossover LP & Slope: ~1khz @ 24db/oct
Amplifier Brand & Power: Oldschool Memphis 6 channel 150wpc @ 2ohms


Subwoofers
Speaker Driver: pair of Image Dynamics IDQ 15 dual 2, version 2
Crossover LP & Slope: ~50hz @ 24db/oct
Amplifier Brand & Power: Oldschool Memphis 6 channel ~600w x1 @ 2ohms bridged


even though you didnt mention my name in your thred :bawling:

i hope that helped. its not 100% operational yet, i need to get my crossover back in, but it sounded GREAT when i had it :)

squeak9798
12-14-2005, 06:27 PM
i hope that helped. its not 100% operational yet, i need to get my crossover back in, but it sounded GREAT when i had it :)


Have you even gotten it back yet? Last I heard you had to send it off to Crossfire?

BodegaBay
12-14-2005, 06:27 PM
Thanks for confirming the Eclipse's bandpass. I guessed I just missed it. Looks like there are more horn drivers than I thought! What do you guys think of yours and are they difficult to install?

Also, what's a guy to do with a tweeter when he only has a 200w (2-4Ohms) per channel amplifier? I guess it would be reduced to 100w with an 8Ohm driver, but would that kind of power still blow a tweeter?

JAZN
12-14-2005, 06:29 PM
TWEETER
- Speaker Driver: Aurum Cantus G2Si
- Crossover HP & Slope: 2.5khz @ 24db/oct
- Amplifier Brand & Power: DLS A3, ~40w @ 6ohms

MIDRANGE/MIDBASS
- Speaker Driver: Adire Extremis
- Bandpass Crossover HP & Slope: 2.5khz @ 24db/oct
- Bandpass Crossover LP & Slope: 63hz @ 24db/oct
- Amplifier Brand & Power: DLS A4, 125w @8ohms

SUBWOOFER
- Speaker Driver: 2x Kicker Solobaric S8d
- Crossover LP & Slope: 63hz @ 24db/oct
- Amplifier Brand & Power: DLS A3, 250w @ 4ohms

That's what it was 6 weeks ago, when I actually had music in my car. Xover points are tenative, haven't installed everything so they'll probably change.

squeak9798
12-14-2005, 06:30 PM
Thanks for confirming the Eclipse's bandpass. I guessed I just missed it. Looks like there are more horn drivers than I thought! What do you guys think of yours and are they difficult to install?

Sound = best I've heard.

Install? Not too hard at all.


Also, what's a guy to do with a tweeter when he only has a 200w (2-4Ohms) per channel amplifier? I guess it would be reduced to 100w with an 8Ohm driver, but would that kind of power still blow a tweeter?

L-pad

:)

JAZN
12-14-2005, 06:31 PM
I thought you sold your horns, Brad?

req
12-14-2005, 06:32 PM
well. you can just turn the gain down :p:

headroom is good.

basically, put mids on channel 1 and 2, and tweets on 3 and 4, and then you have two gain knobs per "side" of the amp (well, most 4 channel amps do at least) then you can use the gain formula in the amplifier forum sticky to figure out the wattage that you need :)


as far as sound goes, yes. horns are better than anything else ive listened to, ive listened to three different horn installs, and they have killed anything else from 1khz and up that ive ever listened to - IF you have the right EQ and crossover that is :)

and squeak, they are attempting to locate a new board in their warehouse. they found a box of stuff from about that time (amp boards and such) for repairs and stuff, and its like way up in the top back corner and they gotta get out the forklifts and shiz to get it down. so yea, its still there, but the customer service rep and i have great contact via email. if it was a new-er product, i bet it would ahve been back in a week or two. but its out of production like 5 years ago :p:

3.5Max6spd
12-14-2005, 06:51 PM
TWEETER

*Rainbow POWER CS Cal 27 silk
*Xover/Slope 3.5khz 12db
*85rms x2 rated power
*Both tweets out of phase
* Drivers side tweet 1.5ms delay, pass side tweet 0.3ms delay

MIDRANGE

*USHER 9845c 3" soft dome midrange
*Xover/Slope 500hz/24db -> 2.5khz/18db
*85rms x2 rated power
* Passenger midrange out of phase
*Drivers side midrange 1.3ms delay

MIDBASS
*Morel Hybrid 8"
*~70hz/12db --> 550hz/24db
*270 rms x 2 rated power
*Drivers side Midbass 1.5ms delay, passenger side driver 0.3ms delay

SUBBASS

*2 Arc 12", 1.2 cu/ft sealed ea
*LP 80hz /24db
*525 rms x 2 rated power

req
12-14-2005, 06:54 PM
pretty sweet 3.5

you should come to syracuse this summer and show that beast off :)

BodegaBay
12-14-2005, 07:12 PM
An active 3-way front! Phew 3.5Max! You're using a 8455 right? Are you using some outboard processing as well?

squeak9798
12-14-2005, 07:32 PM
I thought you sold your horns, Brad?

They're gone.

That was just the last active setup I've ran :D

GSteg
12-14-2005, 07:38 PM
TWEETER
- Speaker Driver: Seas Lotus Reference
- Crossover HP & Slope: 2.0khz @ 12db
- Amplifier Brand & Power: 250w @ 4ohm

MIDRANGE
- Speaker Driver: Seas Lotus Reference
- Bandpass Crossover HP & Slope: 600hz @ 6db
- Bandpass Crossover LP & Slope: 1.5khz @ 12db
- Amplifier Brand & Power: 250w @ 4ohm

MIDBASS
- Speaker Driver: Seas Lotus Performance
- Bandpass Crossover HP & Slope: 71hz @ 18db
- Bandpass Crossover LP & Slope: 300hz @ 6db
- Amplifier Brand & Power: 250w @ 4ohm


SUBWOOFER
- Speaker Driver: Seas Lotus SW300
- Crossover LP & Slope: 63hz @ 18db
- Amplifier Brand & Power: 500w @ 4ohm


Taking out the Seas Lotus reference tweeters out this weekend and replacing it with the Seas Lotus prototypes. :) Power to the drivers are just headroom power. I probably never even use a quarter of that for daily listening :D

req
12-14-2005, 08:15 PM
i was gonna say gsteg :p:

250w would blow your freakin head off :)

nice setup.

slain93gsr
12-14-2005, 09:31 PM
TWEETER
- Speaker Driver: Boston pro 6.5 tweeter
- Crossover HP & Slope: 3.2khz @ 24db/oct
- Amplifier Brand & Power: ppi pc 100w x 4 @ 4ohms

MIDRANGE/MIDBASS
- Speaker Driver: boston pro 6.5
- Bandpass Crossover HP & Slope: 3.2khz @ 24db/oct
- Bandpass Crossover LP & Slope: 50hz @ 24db/oct
- Amplifier Brand & Power: ppi pc 100w x 4 @ 4ohms

SUBWOOFER
- Speaker Driver: old school alumapro alchemy 10
- Crossover LP & Slope: 50hz @ 24db/oct
- Amplifier Brand & Power: ppi pc 400w x 1@4ohms

cda 9813 using active xover on HU

alteraudiousa
12-14-2005, 10:37 PM
TWEETER
- Speaker Driver: CDT TW-24s
- Crossover HP & Slope: 3.15khz @18db slope
- Amplifier Brand & Power:Monitor 1 MK2.70 (70x2@4ohm)

MID
- Speaker Driver: CDT ES-600
- Bandpass Crossover HP & Slope: 63hz @ 24db
- Bandpass Crossover LP & Slope: 4khz @ 18db
- Amplifier Brand & Power: Monitor 1 MK2.70(70x2@4ohm)

SUBWOOFER
- Speaker Driver: Stereo Integrity Mag 12
- Crossover LP & Slope: 100hz @ 24db (compounded by a Coustic XM6 with a 36db slope @125hz(ish))
- Amplifier Brand & Power: Concept 1200x1@1ohm

I am in the works of adding a set of HD-4s in the kicks and will probably use the passive SatNet 480 so that the mid plays nothing below 400hz and the tweet will crossover i think at 4200hz where the SatNet crosses it over and will run oof one amp. The ES-600 will run off the other monitor and play 63hz to 800hz(but not sure have to see how it will sound) and be crossed at the HU at about 1khz@24db slope and also hooked through the XM6 and have it crossed there too, but this is all pending for now.

DiamondFanatic
12-14-2005, 11:06 PM
Just completed the switch to active about 15 minutes ago...
Highs-
Diamond Audio Hex Silk Tweet
HP 24db/octave @5khz

Mids-
Diamond Audio Hex S600 midrange driver
HP 18db/octave @63hz LP 24db/octave @4khz

Reciever- CDA-9855
Amp- Diamond Audio D6600.4
I'm going to be adjusting more, this is just preliminary.

BodegaBay
12-14-2005, 11:23 PM
Niiiice guys. I'm getting some nice ideas if I decide to move from my DLS Iridiums. Thanks for all the listings -- keep them coming!

alphakenny1
12-14-2005, 11:55 PM
hey thx bodge, i appreciate it. anyways here is my current setup. i'm thinking of changing my mids soon probably either the Seas G18RNX or the seas lotus performance. anyways here it is.

TWEETER
- Speaker Driver: LPG 25NFA 8 ohm tweets
- Crossover HP & Slope: 3.15khz @ 24db
- Amplifier Brand & Power: USamps I/S 4085 42.5 watts x 4 @ 8 ohms

MIDBASS/MIDRANGE
- Speaker Driver: Rainbow SLC 165 4 ohm mids
- Bandpass Crossover HP & Slope: 63hz @ 12db
- Bandpass Crossover LP & Slope: 1.25khz @ 12db
- Amplifier Brand & Power: USamps I/S 4085 85watts x 4 @ 4 ohms


SUBWOOFER
- Speaker Driver: Image Dynamics IDQD4v2 in 0.9 cf sealed
- Crossover LP & Slope: 63hz @ 12 db
- Amplifier Brand & Power: Directed Audio 750D 400w @ 2 ohm

HU/CROSSOVER: ECLIPSE 8455

Bodge, you'll find out how fun and easy it is to use the Eclipse 8455 with an active frontstage especially with a dedicated 5 band eq to each the mids and tweets.

Gsteg, how is the midbass on the seas lotus performance?

Slammed
12-15-2005, 12:05 AM
HIGHS
- Speaker Driver: Illusion Audio CH-1 Drivers on Image Dynamics CD2 Mini Horns
- Crossover HP & Slope: 1.0khz @ 18db
- Amplifier Brand & Power: Premier PRSX340 - 40w @ 8ohm

MIDRANGE/MIDBASS
- Speaker Driver: 7" Seas CA18RNX
- Bandpass Crossover HP & Slope: 63hz @ 12db
- Bandpass Crossover LP & Slope: 1.0khz @ 12db
- Amplifier Brand & Power: Premier PRSX340 - 40w @ 8ohm



SUBWOOFER
- Sub Driver:15" Ascendant Audio Atlas (sealed)
- Crossover LP & Slope: 63hz @ 18db
- Amplifier Brand & Power: Premier PRSX720 - 500w @ 6ohm

Slammed
12-15-2005, 12:08 AM
Can someone assist me with my slopes...Im going crazy trying to tune my setup

alphakenny1
12-15-2005, 12:11 AM
actually i'm also seriously considering CA18RNX. slammed the CA18RNX doesn't play well above 1khz or what?

GSteg
12-15-2005, 12:12 AM
Gsteg, how is the midbass on the seas lotus performance?

more output than the Lotus Reference that's for sure, but not as detailed (honestly, the difference is very little).

alphakenny1
12-15-2005, 12:14 AM
more output than the Lotus Reference that's for sure, but not as detailed (honestly, the difference is very little).

yea i think i might get those because the seas mounting depth is above 3" and i have about 3" to work with while the seas lotus performance is like 2.6" or so.

also lol wanna sell me the reference tweets?

GSteg
12-15-2005, 12:15 AM
Can someone assist me with my slopes...Im going crazy trying to tune my setup

What's wrong with your slope? The only problem I see is the crossover point. You're crossing the mids and horns at 1.0khz on 12db slope. This means there is quite a bump from 500hz to 2khz, moreso at 1khz (probably a huge peak). Raise the crossover for the horns to 1.2khz and LP the midrange to about 800hz on a 12db slope. You do not want the cross the mids and horns at the same frequency. Frequency response will be off will sound unnatural.

Slammed
12-15-2005, 12:15 AM
actually i'm also seriously considering CA18RNX. slammed the CA18RNX doesn't play well above 1khz or what?


they actually play pretty good up to around 4khz

my horns just sound better 1khz and above


Im still tweaking though...

BodegaBay
12-15-2005, 12:16 AM
AlphaKenny,

Thanks for the listing as well as all the other informative postings. I ditched my rearfill tonight and will rewire my setup tomorrow to accomodate a 2-way active front stage. A pain but as you said, I'm sure to have fun tweaking.

While I find the DLS 6.2 Iridiums (in it's current passive state) much more refined from my last CDT HD62 setup, I must admit that I missed the midbass from that 6.5in Vifa driver. The 65-80Hz range just doesn't slam any more; however, the 125 and above reallly, really shines!

I'm curious about the Seas Lotus Ref (or Pros) as well. I don't like harsh sounding metal tweeters but not laid back either -- something in between. The Seas interestes me as well as 3.5Max's Rainbow Power CS Cal27. And since I definitely do not have room for a 3-way active frontstage, a 6.5in with good midbass is a must. I'm curious if the Seas Lotus 6.5 Ref midbass peform as well.

Flipx99
12-15-2005, 12:17 AM
Are the gaps between the mid and the tweet very noticable? Especially when corssing at 24 db slope, I would figure in some cases, losing a several hundedred hertz band of music.

GSteg
12-15-2005, 12:18 AM
also lol wanna sell me the reference tweets?

I have to keep the lotus reference tweeters. I'm only going to use the prototype tweeters temporarily, just to see what I can do with them :emb:


Althought I can get you a used set of Seas Lotus reference tweeters (aluminum version). :)

Slammed
12-15-2005, 12:18 AM
What's wrong with your slope? The only problem I see is the crossover point. You're crossing the mids and horns at 1.0khz on 12db slope. This means there is quite a bump from 500hz to 2khz, moreso at 1khz (probably a huge peak). Raise the crossover for the horns to 1.2khz and LP the midrange to about 800hz on a 12db slope. You do not want the cross the mids and horns at the same frequency. Frequency response will be off will sound unnatural.


thanks for replying

but I have them crossed the horns @ 18dbs..not 12dbs



but I will follow your advice with raising the xover to 1.2 khz (should I leave it at 18dbs?)

thanks again

alphakenny1
12-15-2005, 12:19 AM
bodge, i think jntar has a review of the seas lotus reference mids on here. http://forums.caraudio.com/vb/showthread.php?t=128519. he says that the reference mids definately have good midbass. i would actually get those but as Gsteg said they are similiar and the performance can be had for half the price of the reference. i'm actually too lazy for a 3 way active. so like you, midbass from the 6.5 is a high priority.

alphakenny1
12-15-2005, 12:21 AM
I have to keep the lotus reference tweeters. I'm only going to use the prototype tweeters temporarily, just to see what I can do with them :emb:


Althought I can get you a used set of Seas Lotus reference tweeters (aluminum version). :)

oh trust me the prototypes will suit you fine. they sound **** good. hmmm, pm me the price on the tweets.

BodegaBay
12-15-2005, 12:21 AM
D A M N you guys posts FAST!

Gsteg,
Is MobileSQ the definitive source to obtain Seas Lotus drivers?

GSteg
12-15-2005, 12:26 AM
Are the gaps between the mid and the tweet very noticable? Especially when corssing at 24 db slope, I would figure in some cases, losing a several hundedred hertz band of music.


Not noticeable. Remember, when you're crossing over at a frequency, it doesn't mean frequencies thereafter wont be played.

Example: HPing tweeters at 2.0khz @ 12db/octave

From 2.0khz on down, the response of the tweeters is decreasing. At 2.0khz, the tweeters are at 0db (0db is the reference). At 1.5khz, the response is down by -6db. At 1.0khz, the response is down by -12db.

When you have a gap like that, it's easier to blend in because of the transition between the two drivers. If you have the crossover point at the same frequency, you'll run into problem because both of your drivers will produce the same frequency at a much higher volume. This will create an unnatural sound.

GSteg
12-15-2005, 12:27 AM
thanks for replying

but I have them crossed at 18dbs..not 12dbs



but I will follow your advice with raising the xover to 1.2 khz (should I leave it at 18dbs?)

thanks again

Eh. I was looking at your post and the midrange is crossed with a 12db slope. Keep the slopes the same. Just adjust your crossover points instead.

GSteg
12-15-2005, 12:28 AM
oh trust me the prototypes will suit you fine. they sound **** good. hmmm, pm me the price on the tweets.

I love the prototypes. Makes the lotus reference sound sterile :D


I will PM you price when I actually talk to the owner. lol.

Slammed
12-15-2005, 12:29 AM
so...horns at 1.2 khz and up @ 18dbs

and

mids at 1.2 khz and down @ 12dbs?


one more thing...Gsteg...I wanted to know what your thoughts are about the Diyma mids

GSteg
12-15-2005, 12:30 AM
D A M N you guys posts FAST!

Gsteg,
Is MobileSQ the definitive source to obtain Seas Lotus drivers?

Yes. MobileSQ is the only distributor for Lotus by Seas. There are variations of Seas drivers:

Excel by Seas
Basic by Seas
Lotus by Seas

Lotus is the car audio version. Basic and Excel are the home audio version.

If you want, I can get you in contact with a sales rep :)

Slammed
12-15-2005, 12:31 AM
npdang is the mang!

Flipx99
12-15-2005, 12:31 AM
Not noticeable. Remember, when you're crossing over at a frequency, it doesn't mean frequencies thereafter wont be played.

Example: HPing tweeters at 2.0khz @ 12db/octave

From 2.0khz on down, the response of the tweeters is decreasing. At 2.0khz, the tweeters are at 0db (0db is the reference). At 1.5khz, the response is down by -6db. At 1.0khz, the response is down by -12db.

When you have a gap like that, it's easier to blend in because of the transition between the two drivers. If you have the crossover point at the same frequency, you'll run into problem because both of your drivers will produce the same frequency at a much higher volume. This will create an unnatural sound.


Makes perfect sense...thanks.
the slope is kinda like the rate of attenuation (assuming that is the correct word when meaning a decreasing response at frequencies)

GSteg
12-15-2005, 12:33 AM
so...horns at 1.2 khz and up @ 18dbs

mids at 1.2 khz and down @ 12dbs?

one more thing...Gsteg...I wanted to know what your thoughts are about the Diyma mids

Try this:

horns: 1.2khz @ 18db
mids: 800hz @ 12db or 18db

Try both the 12db and 18db for the mids and see which one sounds better to you. With this crossover point, the horns will roll of pretty steep, but the mids will have enough extention pass 800hz to recover some frequencies.

haven't had any experience with DIYMA mids obviously, but I'm going to get a pair later on. I can't wait. :D

GSteg
12-15-2005, 12:34 AM
Makes perfect sense...thanks.
the slope is kinda like the rate of attenuation (assuming that is the correct word when meaning a decreasing response at frequencies)

correct. :)

Slammed
12-15-2005, 12:35 AM
thanks alot :)

will do

ngsm13
12-15-2005, 01:50 AM
Alpine 9835 3-way active

TWEETER
- Speaker Driver: Vifa 1" Textile Dome Neodymium Tweeter
- Crossover HP & Slope: 2.5 kHz @24dB/oct
- Amplifier Brand & Power: Kicker KX 200.2 Set to ~25watt rms per side

MIDRANGE/MIDBASS
- Speaker Driver: RE Audio XXX6.5
- Bandpass Crossover HP & Slope: 63Hz @24dB/oct
- Bandpass Crossover LP & Slope: 2kHz @24dB/oct
- Amplifier Brand & Power: Kicker KX 450.2 Set to ~200rms per side

SUBWOOFER
- Speaker Driver: RE Audio MT15
- Crossover LP & Slope: 50Hz @24dB/oct
- Amplifier Brand & Power: Incriminator Audio 20.1 @.35ohms daily, 2600++++ rms ;)...

w00t...

NG

BodegaBay
12-15-2005, 03:15 AM
Yes. MobileSQ is the only distributor for Lotus by Seas. There are variations of Seas drivers:

Excel by Seas
Basic by Seas
Lotus by Seas

Lotus is the car audio version. Basic and Excel are the home audio version.
If you want, I can get you in contact with a sales rep :)

Ah, thanks for the clarification. I'm much more familiar with home theater A/V than mobile. SEAS has a good reputation within the HT community and many speaker brands user their tweeters.

Yes, please PM me the contact info at MSQ. I'd love to speak to him.

DeLander
12-30-2005, 04:28 PM
Are these all of the active systems being run here? I would have thought it would be alot more.I`m thinking of doing an active set-up in my 2005 F150.I`ll have plenty of questions when I do(hopefully SOON!!!).Factory sound system is killing me! Later