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View Full Version : Good Mids to Use to Go Active



Speedyd718
11-02-2005, 04:42 PM
wassup everyone. i'm tryin to find out what kind of mids work well in sealed enclosures, and would do well in a 2 way active setup. the only 2 two setup like this i've heard are ngsm13(noah's) xxx mids and undercoverpunk(jason's) extremis mids. i like how both of these sound, but before i jumped on them i wanted to see what other high end brands have. thanks guys.

Dave

OCURIEL
11-02-2005, 06:52 PM
seas g18rnx, seas c18rnx & dayton rs

DiamondFanatic
11-02-2005, 07:25 PM
Morel... HU631's

Eugenics
11-02-2005, 07:40 PM
the new adire dvc mids

b0mbrman
11-02-2005, 08:01 PM
Mine are doing okay...

Though if I had to do it over again, I'd look into Aura, Fostex, Eaton...Tang Band even?

squeak9798
11-02-2005, 08:38 PM
the new adire dvc mids

LOL.......I love it when people recommend products that currently don't even exist.

squeak9798
11-02-2005, 08:39 PM
Anyways; depends on your budget, power, frequency range you want them to play, etc etc.

Also, why are you limited to a sealed enclosure?

Eugenics
11-02-2005, 08:46 PM
LOL.......I love it when people recommend products that currently don't even exist.


i didn't say he should get them, just simply consider them... do you love that?:crazy:

Speedyd718
11-02-2005, 08:52 PM
Anyways; depends on your budget, power, frequency range you want them to play, etc etc.

Also, why are you limited to a sealed enclosure?

budget is currently about $300-400 tops on mids (i would hope less though). and i'll probably do some vifa tweets from madisound. power shouldn't be too much of an issue as i plan on using a zapco ref 750.2. and i would like the mids to play really good midbass and midrange (i want to keep it 2way though). and i only said sealed because my car is a 1992 (so it might be prone to water) and i don't even want to attempt to deaden these huge doors. also would a 7" mid do better then a 6.5" mid and still be able to produce a good midrange? thanks guys, i'll be researching your suggestions.

Dave

Feandil
11-02-2005, 10:00 PM
the new adire dvc mids


While I encourage enthusiasm for our products

I would just like to point out that though these are made by adire audio (designed by Dan and David using XBL2 with Adire building the prototype) they are NOT Adire branded speakers

they're everything adire products are... just not branded adire :laugh:

The term I would use is "The new Ology audio XBL2 6.5" components made by adire audio" :D

Or the O audio XBL2 6.5" for short :blush: :blush:

squeak9798
11-02-2005, 10:47 PM
Or the O audio XBL2 6.5" for short :blush: :blush:


I'd be careful using that abbreviation, these guys might get a little upset: http://oaudio.com/

:)

squeak9798
11-02-2005, 10:55 PM
i didn't say he should get them, just simply consider them... do you love that?:crazy:

I think he should also consider the new Squeaksters.

Nobody's heard them. They aren't in production yet. There is no prototype even available. But he should still consider them. They will rock. I promise.

Yes, I love it.


PS: The new Squeaksters will be a midwoofer addition to my subwoofer line, the Squeakinators: http://forums.caraudio.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1168203&postcount=4

squeak9798
11-02-2005, 11:03 PM
budget is currently about $300-400 tops on mids (i would hope less though). and i'll probably do some vifa tweets from madisound. power shouldn't be too much of an issue as i plan on using a zapco ref 750.2. and i would like the mids to play really good midbass and midrange (i want to keep it 2way though).

Seas L18, CA18 and G18 - All the rage (read: boner) in the DIY circuit
Max Fidelity MF-170-75L/4 high Qts version - Supposed to sound very similar to Dyn's
Peerless Exclusive's
Peerless HDS
Vifa MG's
Seas Lotus Reference
Seas Excels - One of the most highly regarded mids in the home audio circuit, but pricey
Dayton Reference
Morel

That's just for starters.



and i only said sealed because my car is a 1992 (so it might be prone to water) and i don't even want to attempt to deaden these huge doors.

[Kickpanels]


also would a 7" mid do better then a 6.5" mid and still be able to produce a good midrange?

They are virtually the same thing. Hell, a lot of "6.5 inch" mids actually measure 6.75" - 7" in diameter.

3.5Max6spd
11-02-2005, 11:06 PM
ohhh...thats Scan Revelator budget;)


Look into Peerless Exclusives-they tested very well and on point w/ manufacturer data...they play perfectly flat on axis/30&60degree off axis way into high midrange...and they are very affodable. Copper shorting rings, machined phase plug...nicely built driver

ngsm13
11-02-2005, 11:18 PM
Dave, if you wanna do active...keep the 4 channel ;). You'll need a 4 channel, OR TWO 2 channels (like I have) for an active setup.

NG

squeak9798
11-02-2005, 11:19 PM
Dave, if you wanna do active...keep the 4 channel ;). You'll need a 4 channel, OR TWO 2 channels (like I have) for an active setup.



I assumed he meant a Ref 750.2 for just the mids. If he meant a 750.2 for the entire frontstage (mids and tweets)......yeah, that ain't going to fly :D

Feandil
11-02-2005, 11:47 PM
I'd be careful using that abbreviation, these guys might get a little upset: http://oaudio.com/

:)


bah there are TOO many speaker companies in this world :laugh:

Speedyd718
11-03-2005, 12:46 AM
Dave, if you wanna do active...keep the 4 channel ;). You'll need a 4 channel, OR TWO 2 channels (like I have) for an active setup.

NG

i'm gonna use a 750.2 for mids and probably a 200.2 for tweets.

Speedyd718
11-03-2005, 01:53 PM
ok so i think i'm gonna narrow down my price range guys to $200 for the pair of speakers. and right now in that range are the Seas L18, Peerless Exclusives, Morel MW, RE XXX, and Adire Extremis. now is it possible that any of you can head me in the direction for reviews of any of these, or what would be my best choice. btw these will most likely be in pods attached to the door panel. thanks guys.

Dave

Loud3
11-03-2005, 01:55 PM
Go to REALM of excursion, and check out undercoverpunk's video of his extremis. Those things impress me to no end!

Feandil
11-03-2005, 02:00 PM
Go to REALM of excursion, and check out undercoverpunk's video of his extremis. Those things impress me to no end!


they also are very low distortion ;)

UndercoverPunk
11-03-2005, 02:01 PM
Go to REALM of excursion, and check out undercoverpunk's video of his extremis. Those things impress me to no end!


Dave's seen and heard them in person.

Speedyd718
11-03-2005, 02:02 PM
Go to REALM of excursion, and check out undercoverpunk's video of his extremis. Those things impress me to no end!

he's my homeboy i've heard his personally and i think that they pwn. but i don't think i could get my girl to go along with a copy of his huge door pods(same exact doors), lol. i've also heard the xxx mids in ngsm13's truck. that's why those 2 speaks are on the list.

dave

Loud3
11-03-2005, 02:04 PM
I have to admit, the XXX's look awesome, but i have yet to hear them.

UndercoverPunk
11-03-2005, 02:06 PM
I have to admit, the XXX's look awesome, but i have yet to hear them.

They're ok. I like my extremi betta, me and Noah still need to do a comparison...

Loud3
11-03-2005, 02:07 PM
They're ok. I like my extremi betta, me and Noah still need to do a comparison...

I'd like to see that. Video it and send it to realm, and ME.

DBfan187
11-03-2005, 02:12 PM
http://forum.carstereos.org/showthread.php?t=56323

squeak9798
11-03-2005, 02:20 PM
and right now in that range are the Seas L18, Peerless Exclusives, Morel MW, RE XXX, and Adire Extremis.

Here's a test of the 4" Peerless, to show you how the line fairs in general: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=617

XXX: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=665
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406

Extremis: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=664


There's a good place to start :)

I, personally, would drop the XXX for a 2-way. It doesn't really shine above 1khz. I'd keep the Seas L18, Peerless Exclusives, the Morel and the Adire as your main front runners.

DBfan187
11-03-2005, 03:54 PM
That's the way things are supposed to be;)


BOT


checkout the mids on sale @ Adire, look like RE mids.

ngsm13
11-03-2005, 03:57 PM
WTF happened here?

NG

DBfan187
11-03-2005, 03:59 PM
we got OT and started mocking Ben Milne.

Alpineinstaller
11-03-2005, 04:01 PM
all my beautiful posts :(

Feandil
11-03-2005, 05:13 PM
Here's a test of the 4" Peerless, to show you how the line fairs in general: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=617

XXX: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=665
http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406

Extremis: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=664


There's a good place to start :)

I, personally, would drop the XXX for a 2-way. It doesn't really shine above 1khz. I'd keep the Seas L18, Peerless Exclusives, the Morel and the Adire as your main front runners.


6.5" for the midbass in a 3 way... now you're talking crazy :crazy: :crazy:

Speedyd718
11-04-2005, 12:05 AM
okay so here's the setup i'm thinkin...

Peerlees Exclusive 7" mids paired w/ LPG 26na alum tweets about $215

what do y'all think about this setup? how would it compare to my old cdt hd-62, noah's xxx w/ vifa tweets, and jason's extremis/ vifa tweets setups? thanks guys.

Dave

UndercoverPunk
11-04-2005, 12:22 AM
we got OT and started mocking Ben Milne.

CDT and AVIONIXX!!!!


Oh, and Dave, it all depends on how you install it.

Speedyd718
11-04-2005, 12:24 AM
Oh, and Dave, it all depends on how you install it.

how big are your pods compared to the ones i have?

UndercoverPunk
11-04-2005, 12:33 AM
how big are your pods compared to the ones i have?


The ones I gave you might be .1, mine are .52

Speedyd718
11-04-2005, 12:40 AM
The ones I gave you might be .1, mine are .52

what do u think we could accomplish without the major dismantling like yours:up2somet: :naughty: ? reccomended sealed box size on madisound says .25ft^3. only thing stopping is i can't find any reviews of the 7" peerless exclusives, i basically want to know they're midbass out put and midrange extension.

Dave

UndercoverPunk
11-04-2005, 12:43 AM
the front part of my pod, the part that stick out all HUGE like, it's prolly .25ish

ngsm13
11-04-2005, 01:04 AM
the front part of my pod, the part that stick out all HUGE like, it's prolly .25ish

Well, what if we cut his pockets out still...but kept it as low profile as possible.

NG

UndercoverPunk
11-04-2005, 01:05 AM
Well, what if we cut his pockets out still...but kept it as low profile as possible.

NG
he said he didn't want the ruining of the panels and such didn't he?

Speedyd718
11-04-2005, 01:21 AM
he said he didn't want the ruining of the panels and such didn't he?

well if we kept them slim maybe we could work it. i been reading up on the seas L18 and the peerless exclusives. and it seems as though the seas may have better low end response and the peerless better midrange. ahhh!!! help! what do i want more? i'm gonna pair them with the lpg 26na tweets.

OlogyAudio
11-04-2005, 02:28 AM
well if we kept them slim maybe we could work it. i been reading up on the seas L18 and the peerless exclusives. and it seems as though the seas may have better low end response and the peerless better midrange. ahhh!!! help! what do i want more? i'm gonna pair them with the lpg 26na tweets.
Of anything out there currently -- for this purpose... the Peerless -- the LPG won't go low enough to pair with the L18 if you ask me... You would need a more expensive tweeter or a large format tweeter for the L18 (or Dayton RS) to work... Not to mention they are a little less forgiving on the setup if you are unsure to say the least...

So I say the peerless... Will be a fun tweaking process...

Speedyd718
11-04-2005, 02:52 AM
Of anything out there currently -- for this purpose... the Peerless -- the LPG won't go low enough to pair with the L18 if you ask me... You would need a more expensive tweeter or a large format tweeter for the L18 (or Dayton RS) to work... Not to mention they are a little less forgiving on the setup if you are unsure to say the least...

So I say the peerless... Will be a fun tweaking process...

well aside from these two i mentioned then. what would you recommend? for your expertise.

OlogyAudio
11-04-2005, 03:32 AM
well aside from these two i mentioned then. what would you recommend? for your expertise.

Well rly I'd use a larger format tweeter like the seas TBFC or TDFC or Dayton RS28 and a L18 or Dayton RS180 -- if you have the time to learn how to set that up proper or just spend the next good while tweaking it to perfection ;) -- It will still do better thn say CDT HD though thats for sure... unless its rly... rly... botched up...

Those are some of the best values in raw drivers out there at the moment... at the moment...

Feandil
11-04-2005, 03:45 AM
Of anything out there currently -- for this purpose... the Peerless -- the LPG won't go low enough to pair with the L18 if you ask me... You would need a more expensive tweeter or a large format tweeter for the L18 (or Dayton RS) to work... Not to mention they are a little less forgiving on the setup if you are unsure to say the least...

So I say the peerless... Will be a fun tweaking process...


I'm going to have to agree here

there are only 2 drivers in 6.5" size that will mate to the point you're looking for... at least that I can think of off the top of my head... and that's the Adire Extremis and PHL midbass/midrange (1220 I believe)

neither of them are cheap... but they both would sound great... I would probably give the edge to the PHL here for that top end

you will need to have some kind of lower xover point with just about any other driver out there... if you want to keep ultra high SQ (i'm talking <.2% THD at resonable volumes)

a larger tweeter like the RS are made to play lower but at the cost of size... definite downside

good luck

ngsm13
11-04-2005, 09:54 AM
Even tho it's not AMAZING, the Vifa D26NC05 is pretty good. With an Fs of 1.8kHz...it goes pretty low. I have it HP @2kHz at a 24dB/OCT slope. I'm not saying you should do the same Dave...but it's an option. I'd like to see something new tho ;)

NG

squeak9798
11-04-2005, 10:16 AM
Or he could mate a ribbon tweeter like the LCY 130 to the L18's :D

Speedyd718
11-04-2005, 10:34 AM
well after more research, it looks like the front runners could be the dayton rs180s and the dayton rs28a. it looks to be a really good combination for a great value ($160 for the mids and tweets). plus i can just take a 40min drive up i-75 and pick them up (woohooo no shipping). how do y'all think this sounds?

UndercoverPunk
11-04-2005, 10:38 AM
well after more research, it looks like the front runners could be the dayton rs180s and the dayton rs28a. it looks to be a really good combination for a great value ($160 for the mids and tweets). plus i can just take a 40min drive up i-75 and pick them up (woohooo no shipping). how do y'all think this sounds?

I'm coming to cinci this weekend unless NOah's too busy, I could pick them up for you, and you pay me when I got there, no gas money required.

UndercoverPunk
11-04-2005, 10:39 AM
Even tho it's not AMAZING, the Vifa D26NC05 is pretty good. With an Fs of 1.8kHz...it goes pretty low. I have it HP @2kHz at a 24dB/OCT slope. I'm not saying you should do the same Dave...but it's an option. I'd like to see something new tho ;)

NG

I really, am not satisfied with these tweets in all honesty.

Speedyd718
11-04-2005, 10:48 AM
I'm coming to cinci this weekend unless NOah's too busy, I could pick them up for you, and you pay me when I got there, no gas money required.

jason that would be awesome. i've got cash is paypal waiting that i can send u, if that's cool. now we gotta figure where to put these tweets at. maybe in the pods next to the mids?

UndercoverPunk
11-04-2005, 10:50 AM
jason that would be awesome. i've got cash is paypal waiting that i can send u, if that's cool. now we gotta figure where to put these tweets at. maybe in the pods next to the mids?

We can figure something out. I'd actually prefer cash if that's not too big of a deal, other wise paypal will be fine, as long as you wanna cover the 3% fee.

I'll call you later.

Speedyd718
11-04-2005, 10:53 AM
We can figure something out. I'd actually prefer cash if that's not too big of a deal, other wise paypal will be fine, as long as you wanna cover the 3% fee.

I'll call you later.

the 3% would be fine unless u want to wait for me to give it to you next week when it hits my bank acct. we'll talk.

Feandil
11-04-2005, 10:56 AM
Or he could mate a ribbon tweeter like the LCY 130 to the L18's :D


I particularly like the LCY 130... but the cutout, and crossover points really are too high for this application...

I had my LCY 130's HP at 2khz with 24db/octave and I wouldn't go much lower when trying to maintain SQ

it's a good tweeter though...

Speedyd718
11-04-2005, 12:52 PM
I particularly like the LCY 130... but the cutout, and crossover points really are too high for this application...

I had my LCY 130's HP at 2khz with 24db/octave and I wouldn't go much lower when trying to maintain SQ

it's a good tweeter though...

any opinions on the dayton mid & tweet combo man? u seem to know alot about frontstages. anyone else can chime in here too. comments like what volume pods to run them sealed in or should i do the in door(don't really want to).

ngsm13
11-04-2005, 01:31 PM
The Daytons are good...but like power...but with the Zapco 750.2....you will have plenty of it.

NG

Feandil
11-04-2005, 01:37 PM
any opinions on the dayton mid & tweet combo man? u seem to know alot about frontstages. anyone else can chime in here too. comments like what volume pods to run them sealed in or should i do the in door(don't really want to).

if you're speaking about the alum dome RS... I believe it was made to mate around 1.8khz...however I have no graphs verifying how well it does here

for the midbass ... just about any 6.5" you end up choosing in around .25-.3 cubes sealed will be best for you :)

I don't know if you've looked at the Seas 27TDFC it's really a first rate tweeter... I wouldn't be too adverse to using around 1.5khz here... as non linear distortion is staggeringly low for it's price

http://206.13.113.199/ncdiyaudio/mark/Testing/Tweeter3/seas_comparison.htm

Speedyd718
11-04-2005, 02:01 PM
if you're speaking about the alum dome RS... I believe it was made to mate around 1.8khz...however I have no graphs verifying how well it does here

for the midbass ... just about any 6.5" you end up choosing in around .25-.3 cubes sealed will be best for you :)

I don't know if you've looked at the Seas 27TDFC it's really a first rate tweeter... I wouldn't be too adverse to using around 1.5khz here... as non linear distortion is staggeringly low for it's price

http://206.13.113.199/ncdiyaudio/mark/Testing/Tweeter3/seas_comparison.htm

hmm that's interesting, the variabilty in the dayton tweets. maybe i will go with the seas 27tdfc. it's also cheaper(by $30). thanks a lot man for that bit of info.

OlogyAudio
11-04-2005, 05:34 PM
hmm that's interesting, the variabilty in the dayton tweets. maybe i will go with the seas 27tdfc. it's also cheaper(by $30). thanks a lot man for that bit of info.

I'd use the TBFC -- a superior tweeter off axis... or on axis for that matter -- a little more airy but not harsh...

AIM Skatterbrain 5000 for a debucked dayton RS midwoofer at lower thn normal prices btw ;) -- he debucked one thn found out he couldnt afford it and couldnt send it back... needed money for something -- so I took the xovers back and he sent the tweeters back? but has the RS mids debucked and working and looking to sell them... Just FYI

Speedyd718
11-04-2005, 09:40 PM
I'd use the TBFC -- a superior tweeter off axis... or on axis for that matter -- a little more airy but not harsh...

AIM Skatterbrain 5000 for a debucked dayton RS midwoofer at lower thn normal prices btw ;) -- he debucked one thn found out he couldnt afford it and couldnt send it back... needed money for something -- so I took the xovers back and he sent the tweeters back? but has the RS mids debucked and working and looking to sell them... Just FYI

anything particuarly wrong with the TDFC? i just ordered them a few hours ago. i personally prefer silk tweets to metal. if u could also give me your input as to how much power these mids and tweets should be getting? as i don't know what they need to make them shine. thanks for the help.

Dave

Feandil
11-04-2005, 10:43 PM
anything particuarly wrong with the TDFC? i just ordered them a few hours ago. i personally prefer silk tweets to metal. if u could also give me your input as to how much power these mids and tweets should be getting? as i don't know what they need to make them shine. thanks for the help.

Dave


Dylan's a hard dome guy... if you like silk you will like the TDFC

there's nothing WRONG with the TDFC... as you can tell by those graphs it's a pretty awesome tweeter ;)

OlogyAudio
11-04-2005, 10:55 PM
Dylan's a hard dome guy... if you like silk you will like the TDFC

there's nothing WRONG with the TDFC... as you can tell by those graphs it's a pretty awesome tweeter ;)

I like detail it tickles me in the right way ;)

Speedyd718
11-04-2005, 10:59 PM
Dylan's a hard dome guy... if you like silk you will like the TDFC

there's nothing WRONG with the TDFC... as you can tell by those graphs it's a pretty awesome tweeter ;)

ok i'm just gonna keep the tweets that are on there way.

now, i'm trying to come up with power handling on these mids and tweets. on the dayton mids(8ohm) the parts express site says 60w rms and 90w max. is that right? it seems low to me but then again i'm not very familiar with active comp power handling. is it that they dont' need that much power to get loud? or are there power ratings under rated? and seas tweets(6ohm) call for 90w rms and 220w max. is that also true? please some one enlighten me. thanks.

Dave

Feandil
11-04-2005, 11:28 PM
I like detail it tickles me in the right way ;)


the bridge between detail and harshness is a fine line IMO...

things like dampening interest me more than simply an extremely high break up nodes ;)

but you know this :laugh: