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swc204
09-23-2005, 04:05 AM
Im looking for a new reciever, mine just crapped out. I dont want to spend more than 250. I need a subwoofer channel and at least 4 other channels. the more options the better. I dont know how much power i need per channel. I was looking at these

http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=115330&com.broadvision.session.new=Yes&BV_UseBVCookie=No

http://www.hookedontronics.com/show_product_details.jsp?cid=15715

http://www.hookedontronics.com/show_....jsp?cid=15250

what are some good cheap brands?

PV Audio
09-23-2005, 09:18 AM
i'm looking to change up my own receiver, and ni'll sell her for 100 shipped. its a kenwood vr707, 600w x 6, too many features and yes it has a sub out.

swc204
09-23-2005, 02:58 PM
i think im going to go wiht this one http://www.hookedontronics.com/show_product_details.jsp?cid=14514

JimJ
09-23-2005, 03:00 PM
600w x 6?

Don't you mean 100w x 6 :D

swc204
09-23-2005, 03:04 PM
i think im going to go wiht this one http://www.hookedontronics.com/show_product_details.jsp?cid=14514

yes? no?

PV Audio
09-23-2005, 06:19 PM
600w x 6?

Don't you mean 100w x 6 :D
yep :)

PV Audio
09-23-2005, 06:19 PM
well before u get a receiver, are u planning on doing HT with this?

swc204
09-23-2005, 07:05 PM
yep, two fronts, a couple satellites, and a subwoofer. and maybe a center later on

Pyro_By_Nature
09-23-2005, 08:12 PM
I'd try and find a yamaha on ebay, or an older sony.I'm not that impressed with pioneer receivers, in fact I have a KLH I use in the spare room I like better than a lot of pioneers.Their receivers, I'm not that impressed with to say the least.

swc204
09-23-2005, 08:18 PM
I was looking at making these for satellites and for fronts.

http://www.northcreekmusic.com/CM-7/CM-7_Loudspeaker_System.htm

I would like to make the CM-7 Standard Loudspeaker for the satellites and the CM-7 MTM-Tower Super for the fronts. would i just use everything they recommend? like the box and crossover. I have no clue how to make the crossover. does anybody have any experience with these drivers? How hard do you think it would be to build these? How do you think these would sound? the room is about 15 by 12. is there anybody that would make the crossovers for a good price?(fock off lemans :D )

HeatSeeker
09-23-2005, 08:23 PM
I'd try and find a yamaha on ebay, or an older sony.I'm not that impressed with pioneer receivers, in fact I have a KLH I use in the spare room I like better than a lot of pioneers.Their receivers, I'm not that impressed with to say the least.

Really? i've hearda lot of good things about their recievers. Hopefully since i just bid on one on ebay:crap: . I think it was the vsx509 or something. But yea ebay is deffinitely a good place for cheap recievers.

JimJ
09-23-2005, 08:26 PM
North Creek for teh win.

The founder is a former Hokie :D

swc204
09-23-2005, 08:33 PM
North Creek for teh win.

The founder is a former Hokie :D

Do you know of any respectable people that would make the crossovers?

swc204
09-23-2005, 10:19 PM
is it bad to have one brand on drivers and tweets for the fronts and then a different driver and tweeter for the rears? does it matter that much. i guess each driver has its own characteristic so it might sound weird to have one set of drivers for the front and a different set for the rear.....

swc204
09-24-2005, 02:54 AM
hows this? i searched it and it says it was made pre 1995. Some of the reviews said it was ******
http://cgi.ebay.com/Denon-AVR-3000-High-End-Surround-Receiver-MINT_W0QQitemZ5811987345QQcategoryZ39793QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem

or this one

http://cgi.ebay.com/DENON-AVR-1705-BSTOCK-REPL-1804-AUTHORIZED-DLR-W-WARTY_W0QQitemZ5811843178QQcategoryZ39793QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem

JimJ
09-24-2005, 02:55 AM
Class A?

Hmmm...definitely do some research on that. That looks to be a good choice.

JimJ
09-24-2005, 02:56 AM
Do you know of any respectable people that would make the crossovers?

Ology Audio should be able to help you out...once you get beyond a simple first-order, Xovers aren't my thing :)

swc204
09-24-2005, 03:12 AM
Ology Audio should be able to help you out...once you get beyond a simple first-order, Xovers aren't my thing :)
ooooo ya.....i forgot about him

swc204
09-24-2005, 03:12 AM
Class A?

Hmmm...definitely do some research on that. That looks to be a good choice.

the first one?

swc204
09-24-2005, 03:20 AM
whats a Toroidal amp? it says it has it in it

JimJ
09-24-2005, 03:25 AM
the first one?

The Denon.

The toroids are most likely referring to the power supply...any SS amp has toroids in it, but if it's a class A amp, it requires one hell of a beefy PS to run it. I kind of doubt it's a true class A, though.

swc204
09-24-2005, 03:32 AM
it doesnt have dolby digtal or 5.1. but its says it puts out 110 times 3, and 35 times 2, all at 8 ohms. would it still work for what i want to do with it?

JimJ
09-24-2005, 03:33 AM
Well...not for surround sound...no.

swc204
09-24-2005, 04:50 AM
http://www.ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?dpno=191503&store=ecost&source=ECOSTDEAL&srccode=cii_13736960&cpncode=07-1230565-2&adcampaign=email,ECOSTDEAL

whats reconditioned mean? looks like a good one tho....

PV Audio
09-24-2005, 01:39 PM
whats a Toroidal amp? it says it has it in it
transformers i believe :)

PV Audio
09-24-2005, 01:39 PM
http://www.ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?dpno=191503&store=ecost&source=ECOSTDEAL&srccode=cii_13736960&cpncode=07-1230565-2&adcampaign=email,ECOSTDEAL

whats reconditioned mean? looks like a good one tho....
refurbished, but using a different word to make it sound newer :)

swc204
09-24-2005, 05:05 PM
refurbished, but using a different word to make it sound newer :)

Theres also opened box reconditioned ones that are about 25-30 cheaper than just reconditioned. Whats open box mean?

PV Audio
09-24-2005, 06:34 PM
means that they are not straight from the factory refurbished, but have been tested. still excelelnt.

adam71
09-25-2005, 04:06 AM
Wow, I remember the AVR-3000, very nice Pro Logic receiver with decent power. I used to run an AVR-2000 and I loved it. In fact, thats what I have connected to my computer right now.:)

PV Audio
09-25-2005, 04:10 AM
ugh i need an amp for my computer. my hitachi is HORRENDOUS. it sounds worse than a fat chick walkin w ith oil between her cheeks

jlaine
09-26-2005, 04:17 PM
yep, two fronts, a couple satellites, and a subwoofer. and maybe a center later on

Doing it backwards - get the center first and then the satellites... Most of your HT information is focused on the center channel. :)

swc204
09-26-2005, 05:34 PM
Doing it backwards - get the center first and then the satellites... Most of your HT information is focused on the center channel. :)

really?......i always thought center channels werent as important......guess i was wrong......Does it have to be up high? The only way i could have one is basically put it about a foot off of the ground. I guess i could always make it stronger and then put my tv on top of it.

adam71
09-26-2005, 05:47 PM
I wouldn't get the center channel first if I were you. While it is true the center channel is the most important speaker in home theater setup you can still get by without one til you can afford one. Because in the meantime you can still listen to 2 channel music. If you only had a center up front you would have MONO up front. If I were you I would definitely get a center channel but I would get that last. In the meantime you can use the "phantom" setting on your receiver.

jlaine
09-26-2005, 06:14 PM
I wouldn't get the center channel first if I were you. While it is true the center channel is the most important speaker in home theater setup you can still get by without one til you can afford one. Because in the meantime you can still listen to 2 channel music. If you only had a center up front you would have MONO up front. If I were you I would definitely get a center channel but I would get that last. In the meantime you can use the "phantom" setting on your receiver.

He's talking about getting the mains and the surrounds...

Don't waste your time with the surrounds until you have the mains and the center.

swc - it's commonplace to put it above/below the TV, however you can make it work (although not stacking the TV on top of it!). I have a MTM center channel and stack it vertically above my TV - the way it should be setup. :) It visually seems odd, but acoustically speaking is the way to go.

swc204
09-26-2005, 06:35 PM
He's talking about getting the mains and the surrounds...

Don't waste your time with the surrounds until you have the mains and the center.

swc - it's commonplace to put it above/below the TV, however you can make it work (although not stacking the TV on top of it!). I have a MTM center channel and stack it vertically above my TV - the way it should be setup. :) It visually seems odd, but acoustically speaking is the way to go.

thanks for all the help.....Are you still making RCA's? I sent you a pm over at soundillusions if you want to stick to pm's.

adam71
09-26-2005, 08:26 PM
He's talking about getting the mains and the surrounds...

Don't waste your time with the surrounds until you have the mains and the center.

Don't get me wrong man I know what your were talking about. But I thought you were saying not to get mains until he had a center first. That was my confusion I guess. Is there a surround mode that lets you use just 3 mains without surroudns?? Like virtual or something like that??

PV Audio
09-26-2005, 08:51 PM
dipole speakers>virtual sound

;)

liar2
09-26-2005, 10:33 PM
I'm interested in this as well. Can someone post some decent recievers in the same price range?

jlaine
09-26-2005, 10:34 PM
dipole speakers>virtual sound

;)

5.1 > dipole speakers.

PV Audio
09-26-2005, 10:35 PM
true, but virtual surround<dipole

jlaine
09-26-2005, 10:37 PM
true, but virtual surround<dipole

Which is not the point of dipole at all, especially in the manner you are attempting to portray it.

PV Audio
09-26-2005, 10:53 PM
why couldn't u have a single dipole rear channel act as two?

jlaine
09-26-2005, 11:00 PM
why couldn't u have a single dipole rear channel act as two?

We wen't from not getting surrounds yet based on the need for a center channel as it's far more important for movie usage - then you chirp in with this odd statement?

Who uses pro-logic anymore?

PV Audio
09-26-2005, 11:40 PM
We wen't from not getting surrounds yet based on the need for a center channel as it's far more important for movie usage - then you chirp in with this odd statement?

Who uses pro-logic anymore?
yeah a guy wrote


Is there a surround mode that lets you use just 3 mains without surroudns?? Like virtual or something like that??

and i was saying instead of using speakers falsely, why not make dipole surrounds and fire them on opposite sides (angled) to make a surround setup?

perhaps we aren't on the same page...

adam71
09-27-2005, 12:01 AM
and i was saying instead of using speakers falsely, why not make dipole surrounds and fire them on opposite sides (angled) to make a surround setup?

No lemans we are NOT on the same page. Jlaine suggested instead of going without a center he should go without surrounds until he can afford some. Then I said "what surround mode could he go with with until he gets surround speakers since he would only have 2 mains and center?" Then I asked if virtual surround would work in this situation. Please keep up.:)

adam71
09-27-2005, 12:03 AM
5.1 > dipole speakers.


What does that mean?? I use dipole surrounds with my 7.1 system. :crap:




Who uses pro-logic anymore?

Don't forget most TV programming is Pro Logic.;)

PV Audio
09-27-2005, 12:05 AM
No lemans we are NOT on the same page. Jlaine suggested instead of going without a center he should go without surrounds until he can afford some. Then I said "what surround mode could he go with with until he gets surround speakers since he would only have 2 mains and center?" Then I asked if virtual surround would work in this situation. Please keep up.:)
lmao i was on mars then :D

adam71
09-27-2005, 12:07 AM
why couldn't u have a single dipole rear channel act as two?


BTW lemans if I'm not mistaken dipole speakers have one input so they could NOT act as 2. Remember the back side of a dipole plays the same information only out of phase.

PV Audio
09-27-2005, 12:11 AM
no what i mean is, make a dipole speaker physically act as two independent speakers.

PV Audio
09-27-2005, 12:11 AM
thus you have one actual "speaker" comprised of two speakers that resembles a dipole speaker. get what i mean? :)

adam71
09-27-2005, 12:11 AM
I have a MTM center channel and stack it vertically above my TV - the way it should be setup. :) It visually seems odd, but acoustically speaking is the way to go.

What is MTM? And why can't it lay horizontal? Isn't that the way center channel speakers are designed to set on a tv. Or is this just a satellite speaker that you're using as a center.??

PV Audio
09-27-2005, 12:13 AM
mtm = mid tweet mid

adam71
09-27-2005, 12:15 AM
You're confusing me lemans. You just made 2 posts back to back that contradicted each other. Your first post talked about making 2 speakers out of 1 and the other talked about using 2 speakers into 1.

You can't use a single dipole and feed 2 channels of surround info to it.

PV Audio
09-27-2005, 12:18 AM
ok ok, lemme try and explain. you have a dipole speaker, right? it is a TM on one side, then a TM on the other. w hat i was sayin is, why not take that same speaker, but run each side independently, thus u have two speakers in one...hope that makes sense

jlaine
09-27-2005, 12:23 AM
and i was saying instead of using speakers falsely, why not make dipole surrounds and fire them on opposite sides (angled) to make a surround setup?

perhaps we aren't on the same page...

I don't think we're on the same planet...

You're now talking 'dipole surrounds' where your earlier post specifically said 'single dipole speaker act as two.' Makes no sense... No single focus here, you keep changing it - and/or not following with the thread...

This is the point I officially give up trying to follow where you're going... As it doesn't stay stable...


What does that mean?? I use dipole surrounds with my 7.1 system. :crap:


Trying to follow this thread with lemans' involvement is starting to give me a headache. That's what that means... :)

The discussion progressed from not getting surrounds and getting a center instead (never mentioned not dropping fronts - FYI) - to then using a single dipole surround which was never the point of this discussion (the focus immediately before was the center and front system), using a single one in mono and portrayed in a way that you could hook it up as a single rear and get proper surround... Dipole with stereo inputs? Heck if I know. But then again I can't find a straight pattern of thought to follow... So I'm just not going to focus on it anymore. :)



Don't forget most TV programming is Pro Logic.;)

I don't watch tv often... When I do it's typically the DD / hidef HBO or Starz channels... ;)

adam71
09-27-2005, 12:23 AM
The reason you can't do that is because it only has 1 set of inputs.

jlaine
09-27-2005, 12:24 AM
ok ok, lemme try and explain. you have a dipole speaker, right? it is a TM on one side, then a TM on the other. w hat i was sayin is, why not take that same speaker, but run each side independently, thus u have two speakers in one...hope that makes sense

Because 99% of the dipoles out have one input - they were made to operate as a single speaker for a reason...

This is still not within the scope of this discussion, and really makes no sense.

jlaine
09-27-2005, 12:29 AM
The reason you can't do that is because it only has 1 set of inputs.

I feel better now. :D

A like-minded fellow as confused as I - perhaps I'm not going insane then.

adam71
09-27-2005, 12:33 AM
I feel better now. :D

A like-minded fellow as confused as I - perhaps I'm not going insane then.

No, you aren't insane yet.

So what home speakers do you use?? I use Mirage and Atlantic w/ a Velodyne sub.

jlaine
09-27-2005, 12:36 AM
So what home speakers do you use?? I use Mirage and Atlantic w/ a Velodyne sub.

They don't have names - I designed them actually.

http://www.soundillusions.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=2196&c=80

http://www.soundillusions.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=2194&c=80

http://www.soundillusions.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=646&c=80

PV Audio
09-27-2005, 12:51 AM
ahh i give up :)

adam71
09-27-2005, 01:58 AM
They don't have names - I designed them actually.

http://www.soundillusions.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=2196&c=80

http://www.soundillusions.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=2194&c=80

http://www.soundillusions.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=646&c=80



:wow: My god man.......that sub is insane. Like the sats too.:D

I want a sub that will really hit hard for home theater. My velodyne is wonderful for music but lacks the ooomph for BIG home theater sound.

swc204
09-27-2005, 02:47 AM
:wow: My god man.......that sub is insane. Like the sats too.:D

I want a sub that will really hit hard for home theater. My velodyne is wonderful for music but lacks the ooomph for BIG home theater sound.

thats the infamous uberwoofer......i think

PV Audio
09-27-2005, 09:22 AM
perhaps one of the drivers is....not the front firing

swc204
09-27-2005, 05:08 PM
perhaps one of the drivers is....not the front firing

its the inverted one....thats a passive radiator

PV Audio
09-27-2005, 06:13 PM
yes i know...that's why i said it :)