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brandontw
09-12-2005, 10:21 PM
i have some speaker cabinets full of crappy old speakers, and im going to empty them out and put some new speaks in em' for my room. I am on a heck of a budget, so tell me what you think of this idea:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-174
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-260
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=270-050

total: 61.30 for both speaks.

it doesnt look like i could get much else for that much, except for mini's and cheap *** pa speakers. i just have a 100w per channel sony reciever.
i borrowed some yamaha pa speakers a while ago and have been longing for more than i have ever scince i lost them.
but if this idea is going to sound like **** then i might not want to bother.
i have heard some really ****** pa speakers, and i dont want these to be like that.

brandontw
09-12-2005, 10:29 PM
here is what i found but i think these are pretty bad:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Gemini-10-Trapezoid-Speaker-300Watt_W0QQitemZ7349508235QQcategoryZ47094QQrdZ1Q QcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/Pair-8-PA-DJ-Pro-Audio-Speakers-150-W-NEW-Speaker_W0QQitemZ7349715840QQcategoryZ47094QQrdZ1Q QcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/219-PRO-AUDIO-Stage-Monitor-Set-Pair-DJ-KJ-Speakers-NR_W0QQitemZ7349451675QQcategoryZ47094QQrdZ1QQcmdZ ViewItem

JimJ
09-12-2005, 10:38 PM
I wouldn't go that route.

And please re-size your signature image to fit the allowed dimensions :)

brandontw
09-12-2005, 10:51 PM
What route would you go.

brandontw
09-12-2005, 11:09 PM
actual home audio drivers
Umm.. ok let me try again:

woofers:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=264-462
Crossovers:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Boston-Acoustics-2-Way-Cross-Over-Crossover_W0QQitemZ5800806411QQcategoryZ3276QQrdZ1 QQcmdZViewItem
Tweets:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=264-476

total: 98.5$

P.S. Sorry about the sig, last time i was very active on here that rule wasnt in effect.

JimJ
09-12-2005, 11:14 PM
P.S. Sorry about the sig, last time i was very active on here that rule wasnt in effect.

I know, I hadn't seen you around in a while...so I tried to be nice :)

Are you trying to match your Xovers to the components being used? Or just taking a shotgun approach to everything?

Look - if you're on a budget, why not get rid of the tweeters and crossovers and go full range? You could pick up a pair of Fostex 4.5's for a little over $60, or get a pair of Tang Bands from PE for probably cheaper. Why make things more complicated than needed?

Put the effort into box design - MDF is cheaper than crossover parts. Tang Band drivers in a transmission line or folded horn would give excellent results, and be pretty cheap to boot.

brandontw
09-12-2005, 11:28 PM
Oh, I’m just shot gunning, I really am sort of a newb to home audio, but I know my car stuff fairly well. I just want to get a pair of speaks that will sound decent pretty loud, with good bass and low distortion. Like I said I fell in love with those Yamaha PA speaks just cause I could crank em’ and they liked it, you don’t get that with regular home audio speaks from what I’ve seen.

I have been really busy lately, so I’m trying to be lazy with this project. I usually put a lot of effort into my stereos, I worked hard on the box for my 4-10's, designed it in AutoCAD, did the calculations, ect. And it was worth it I guess. But I have NO time cause I have work and school so I was hoping I could just put new drivers in the cabinets I have laying around and call it good, but its becoming clear that this approach may not work out, so I am open to suggestions.

So puting all of my dumb ideas aside, is there a way to get what I want for ~100$

-2 speaks
-at least 100RMS each
-good bass
-loud

brandontw
09-12-2005, 11:29 PM
dude, PA drivers are not suited for home, hence they are a different category. go with some HIVI or Morel drivers, they are excellent.

im not trying to be stubborn, but why arent they suited for home?

brandontw
09-12-2005, 11:34 PM
mainly because PS drivers need to make ALOT of sound to cover alot of ears, thus they aren't as detailed and warm as regular HA drivers. however, like everything, there are exceptions to this.
i think thats why i like them :uhoh:

i like that they dont get soft at high volumes, i dont miss the warmth much.

brandontw
09-12-2005, 11:44 PM
Usually i would too, but 600 dollars for a pair of B&W speaks that wont go above half volume without distoring painfully isnt cool to me - not when getting some decent pa speaks eliminates your need for a sub and gives you more sound and top end clarity at any level.

I dunno, me and my dad are both amature audiophiles if that makes any sense, and we both get frustrated because we like to listen to music very loud at times, and it ***** not to be able to. But at the same time we appreciate the warmth and clarity speakers such as warfdale, and b&w can provide, thats why my dad bought them. but its only good at low to mid levels. i feel like im babbling now... im gonna go.

JimJ
09-12-2005, 11:46 PM
What about a line array?

JimJ
09-12-2005, 11:46 PM
hmm suit urself, but i'll take my nice harmonics anyday :)

What do you know of harmonics, solid-state boy...

:uhoh:

brandontw
09-12-2005, 11:57 PM
What about a line array?
what about it? tell me more

JimJ
09-13-2005, 12:11 AM
if tubes were the be all end all, then they wouldn't be an obsolete technology ;)

sure ive heard a few tubes that are excellent, but for the price and the requiremnts of everything else that you need to have even medium sound off of them...they just ain't worth it :)

Heh. Why not talk about things you actually know something about?


what about it? tell me more

http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/s/f/1100398628.jpg

That's an example of a line array. A whole bunch of speakers connected together - so it's extremely efficient and has a ton of displacement. Very good vertical dispersion, but the off-axis response to the sides isn't that great. Doesn't take much power to get one of these loud...

JimJ
09-13-2005, 12:27 AM
never did say that i knew of the technology


sure ive heard a few tubes that are excellent,

:confused:

Stop while you're behind, please.

JimJ
09-13-2005, 12:33 AM
That's correct...you don't need to have a fundamental knowledge of how something works to enjoy it. However, not having that fundamental knowledge prevents you from making informed statements about it :)

Just because I'm curious...what did you listen to? Did you find out what tubes it used? Push pull or single ended? With what speakers?

brandontw
09-13-2005, 01:58 AM
now now boys....



Heh. Why not talk about things you actually know something about?



http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/s/f/1100398628.jpg

That's an example of a line array. A whole bunch of speakers connected together - so it's extremely efficient and has a ton of displacement. Very good vertical dispersion, but the off-axis response to the sides isn't that great. Doesn't take much power to get one of these loud...

this looks like it would be way out of my price range, unless i can get speakers to put in it for 10$ apeice i think its a bit much. but if i had money growing on trees then i would be all about messing with that. it looks very interesting...and impressive:yumyum:

brandontw
09-13-2005, 02:06 AM
line array perhaps?

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=269-570

these are my kind of price range.

20 of them maybye?

i realise that they are very crappy speakers...but would it be a fun thing to experment with or a waste of my 20$

i scetched this in autocad: 20-4 inchers and a horn tweeter
http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/2453/drawing18cb.th.jpg (http://img358.imageshack.us/my.php?image=drawing18cb.jpg)

brandontw
09-13-2005, 02:07 AM
do you have any links about wiring/building line arrays? youve got me fascinated.

IamDeMan
09-13-2005, 09:08 AM
What do you know of harmonics, solid-state boy...

:uhoh:
Umm I'll take a blend and compromise between Harmonics/price/convenience.

Unless I win the lottery, then it will just be balls to the wall :)

brandontw
09-13-2005, 08:29 PM
theres some links around. thylantr has a tutorial on making a phase plug. blows away regular NSBs in tests (NSB is that driver u specified, they are used tor lots of ****). i also clear lacquered the cones on mine (just bought 10) and they walk over the stock coned ones.

which driver? this one:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=269-570

is that a "yes" they would be cool to make a line array with, especially if you laquer the cones: i think i might buy a grip of them and then spend a while building some/a cabinet(s) for em' if so-- especially at .49 per speak

IamDeMan
09-13-2005, 09:32 PM
which driver? this one:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=269-570

is that a "yes" they would be cool to make a line array with, especially if you laquer the cones: i think i might buy a grip of them and then spend a while building some/a cabinet(s) for em' if so-- especially at .49 per speakAt that price, they are definitely worth it just for experimenting and learning with. 16 of those in each cabinet in a combination of series/paralell arrangments would yield 8ohm with 80 watt theoretic power handling. hmmmm

brandontw
09-14-2005, 02:06 AM
At that price, they are definitely worth it just for experimenting and learning with. 16 of those in each cabinet in a combination of series/paralell arrangments would yield 8ohm with 80 watt theoretic power handling. hmmmm

my thoughts exactally.... but i need help with wiring. i was going to do 20 speaks, but that wouldent allow the proper load right?

what about a tweeter? what about the bass frequencies?

im physced about this!!

JimJ
09-14-2005, 02:08 AM
For a tweeter, just use a normal one...run a simple crossover to it. People generally use ribbons in line arrays because of the improved vertical dispersion, but like those Bottlehead Straight 8's I showed earlier, regular tweets work as well.

Subbass is the job of an external subwoofer :)

brandontw
09-14-2005, 02:59 AM
For a tweeter, just use a normal one...run a simple crossover to it. People generally use ribbons in line arrays because of the improved vertical dispersion, but like those Bottlehead Straight 8's I showed earlier, regular tweets work as well.

Subbass is the job of an external subwoofer :) cool.
if i dont have a sub at the moment, will it sound noticibly bass-less?

two tweets or one? could i still go horn if i wanted or is it still advised against? what should the power handling on the tweet(s) be?

JimJ
09-14-2005, 03:02 AM
It'll probably lack a lot of low bass response, yes...

If you want to talk to someone that's put a ton of time into making a setup like this sound good, thylantyr is the guy you want to talk to :)

He's on here sometimes, as well as CAF...

brandontw
09-14-2005, 03:26 AM
hmm ok ...but before i let you go should i use 16 instead of 20? it would make the wiring a bit easier.

IamDeMan
09-14-2005, 08:17 AM
It'll probably lack a lot of low bass response, yes...

If you want to talk to someone that's put a ton of time into making a setup like this sound good, thylantyr is the guy you want to talk to :)

He's on here sometimes, as well as CAF...

How about building this line array and using a PR downfiring or rear firing attached to the cabinet to extend the low end? Would that help out or just add too much complexity?

Also, where would you add the ribbon tweeter? Middle? Top? More than one?

IamDeMan
09-14-2005, 08:27 AM
my thoughts exactally.... but i need help with wiring. i was going to do 20 speaks, but that wouldent allow the proper load right?

what about a tweeter? what about the bass frequencies?

im physced about this!!
As far as wiring 16, you just make 4 groups of 4. The 4 drivers in each group will be wired paralell. Then you attach each group in series to get a final 8ohm load. I think 16 in each cabinet will be easier than 20.

http://s92438186.onlinehome.us/albums/album04/linearraywiring.jpg

PV Audio
09-14-2005, 09:14 AM
good stuff. yes i would do 16 in a huge series parallel setup as well

IamDeMan
09-14-2005, 10:52 AM
I modeled 16 of these in WinISD as ported enclosures and realize that adding PRs won't really do much for them and probbly just introduce more anamolies. I think I am going to order these parts and try my hand at a line array cabinet.



(2X) DAYTON XO2W-4.5K 2-WAY CROSSOVER 4,500 $39.90

(8X) HI-VI TN25 FABRIC DOME TWEETER $64.80

(32X) 4" EXTENDED RANGE DRIVER $15.68

Subtotal: $120.38

16X 4" and 4X tweeters per cabinet. Seems like a good price for an experiment.

JimJ
09-14-2005, 10:55 AM
Yeah, most of the line arrays I've seen don't have a built in subwoofer.

As for the tweeters, I've seen it done with the tweets in the middle or top, depending on how tall the stack was.

IamDeMan
09-14-2005, 11:05 AM
Yeah, most of the line arrays I've seen don't have a built in subwoofer.

As for the tweeters, I've seen it done with the tweets in the middle or top, depending on how tall the stack was.
Well I think what I am going to do is go with 4X tweeters mounted in between every group of 4 midrange drivers in their own series paralell config. Do you think that is overkill and one ribbon would be sufficient? If using one then should I not bother with 2 way crossover and just do a high pass on the tweeter and let the 4" do a full range?

JimJ
09-14-2005, 11:06 AM
Some ideas...

http://www.lonesaguaro.com/speakers/array/array.htm

brandontw
09-14-2005, 11:06 AM
funn stuff
what about the crossover? what point should it cross at? would this one work or should i get something better?
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-175

mrray13
09-14-2005, 11:10 AM
I modeled 16 of these in WinISD as ported enclosures and realize that adding PRs won't really do much for them and probbly just introduce more anamolies. I think I am going to order these parts and try my hand at a line array cabinet.



(2X) DAYTON XO2W-4.5K 2-WAY CROSSOVER 4,500 $39.90

(8X) HI-VI TN25 FABRIC DOME TWEETER $64.80

(32X) 4" EXTENDED RANGE DRIVER $15.68

Subtotal: $120.38

16X 4" and 4X tweeters per cabinet. Seems like a good price for an experiment.

in ur situation, it might be different, but i used that same tweeter in my boy's bookshelves...they don't need alot of power! they are bright, not harsh by any means, but in my case, they could have (and will one day) been attenuated a bit.


as far as clarity goes, they are awesome. like i said, they are bright without being harsh. a really good tweeter for the price.


btw, i did jsut a typical ported bookshelf, nothing fancy, TM in .66ft^3 tuned to ~40hz...




wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeee :peace: